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08-08-2024, 10:10 PM
#271
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
Even to add, the translation says in yours "understand and remember" whereas in Arabic you will only see the word dhikr.
The verse, this is the issue when you simply read a translation and don't look at what the word in arabic means.
If I go read the bible, I should have study bible too right?
The word in arabic is called "dhikr" for remember in this verse. It literally means easy to remember for reciting. As in, this book will be easy to be remembered (as in many people have memorized the entire thing and read it). You can Google the word dhikr for more if you want.
And I have this passaged memorized as well in Arabic.
I love how the Quran is in its pure Arabic so no one can come later and make this claim you just have. Go to anyone who speaks Arabic, who's studied the Quran just a little.
If I go read the bible, I should have study bible too right?
The word in arabic is called "dhikr" for remember in this verse. It literally means easy to remember for reciting. As in, this book will be easy to be remembered (as in many people have memorized the entire thing and read it). You can Google the word dhikr for more if you want.
And I have this passaged memorized as well in Arabic.
I love how the Quran is in its pure Arabic so no one can come later and make this claim you just have. Go to anyone who speaks Arabic, who's studied the Quran just a little.
In Arabic, the word dhikr resembles the both together. Arabic is a way more sophisticated language than English and has multiple times the number of words in the language.
Search up how many words are in English
And then do the same with Arabic
It's a way older language to be fair so it makes sense
I'm out hopefully that explains something
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08-08-2024, 10:22 PM
#272
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
So Mohammad forces you to learn Arabic to be saved? Why not make it for all people of all nations?
The verse, this is the issue when you simply read a translation and don't look at what the word in arabic means.
If I go read the bible, I should have study bible too right?
The word in arabic is called "dhikr" for remember in this verse. It literally means easy to remember for reciting. As in, this book will be easy to be remembered (as in many people have memorized the entire thing and read it). You can Google the word dhikr for more if you want.
And I have this passaged memorized as well in Arabic.
I love how the Quran is in its pure Arabic so no one can come later and make this claim you just have. Go to anyone who speaks Arabic, who's studied the Quran just a little.
If I go read the bible, I should have study bible too right?
The word in arabic is called "dhikr" for remember in this verse. It literally means easy to remember for reciting. As in, this book will be easy to be remembered (as in many people have memorized the entire thing and read it). You can Google the word dhikr for more if you want.
And I have this passaged memorized as well in Arabic.
I love how the Quran is in its pure Arabic so no one can come later and make this claim you just have. Go to anyone who speaks Arabic, who's studied the Quran just a little.
BTW, I've heard the Arabic and seen the translation..it states easy to understand, both here and other verses..this isn't my first rodeo dealing with this.
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08-08-2024, 10:32 PM
#273
The greatest evidence for God that allowed me to soften towards the idea of a creator after being atheist was….Earth. It can't NOT be created. It is almost insane to allude to the idea that it is random coincidence concocted through random natural occurrence to great such a beautiful world. Everything is connected in near perfect harmony (if you let it). The Earth is a perfect organic battery. Humans are most made of water. Two machine cut perfect sized nodes, which are the sun and the moon, electric currents, storms to maintain electrical balance and regulating the climate/environment, Volcanoes as pressure releasers, mountains for stability and fresh water, and so on. It's perfect. There is a 0% chance this Earth was accidental and based off of "evolutionary arms race."
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
If God is loving, which he is, that means the opposite MUST exist. Otherwise the idea of love doesn't. God allows suffering because it has a greater purpose. He's not the source, but he permits it within his love because if we endure it in his name then we receive great spiritual benefit from it. Adam and Eve broke the covenant between man and God. It wasn't reconnected until Jesus came to fulfill the old and start the new covenant between man and God. That's why we go to heaven through him. Pain and suffering is temporary. This life isn't the end.
Questions about the Bible itself where the answers sufficed while I was a child, but didn't hold up to common sense in my mind as I got older. Then there's the fact that people across the world strongly believe in the religion they were taught with as much fervor as the people I knew. If I grew up in Iran, I'd have been Muslim. Most religious people follow the one their people follow, and all claim to have it the right way.
As for you second question, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The Christian God is said to be loving, but it doesn't mesh with the fact that hell is eternal. Eternal torture for temporary sin. Everyone is this thread lives someone m no one would do they to someone they loved. Even if you punished someone you loved, it wouldn't be for literal eternity. If the God in the Bible is loving and hell is real, logic would dictate that this God would do whatever it took to make sure the people it loved wouldn't burn forever (even though it created the eternal burning place). To me, it makes no logical sense unless love ascribed to God isn't the same love we feel, and if that's the case, why call it love?
If it exists, I believe it can be good, evil, or indifferent. If it's evil, we're screwed regardless. If it's good, no one dies for eternity. If it's indifferent, what we think of it doesn't matter. If it wants us to know it's real and is as powerful as religions claim it is, there's nothing stopping it from letting someone know if they felt like that person should know. It's not like there aren't stories in the Bible where God literally talks to someone, or sends an angel to kick their ass and give them some colorful drip afterwards.
As for you second question, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The Christian God is said to be loving, but it doesn't mesh with the fact that hell is eternal. Eternal torture for temporary sin. Everyone is this thread lives someone m no one would do they to someone they loved. Even if you punished someone you loved, it wouldn't be for literal eternity. If the God in the Bible is loving and hell is real, logic would dictate that this God would do whatever it took to make sure the people it loved wouldn't burn forever (even though it created the eternal burning place). To me, it makes no logical sense unless love ascribed to God isn't the same love we feel, and if that's the case, why call it love?
If it exists, I believe it can be good, evil, or indifferent. If it's evil, we're screwed regardless. If it's good, no one dies for eternity. If it's indifferent, what we think of it doesn't matter. If it wants us to know it's real and is as powerful as religions claim it is, there's nothing stopping it from letting someone know if they felt like that person should know. It's not like there aren't stories in the Bible where God literally talks to someone, or sends an angel to kick their ass and give them some colorful drip afterwards.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
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08-08-2024, 10:35 PM
#274
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Go back a few posts though I asked questions and you didn't answer. You posted something about it being clear and I responded. I know what's happening it and trust me I've seen this too many times. It's this spray and pray tactic that if I can throw a bunch of things out, I might confuse him enough. I'd like to dialog lol but this isn't fruitful on my end so I'll be stopping the dialog with you after this post.
So Mohammad forces you to learn Arabic to be saved? Why not make it for all people of all nations?
BTW, I've heard the Arabic and seen the translation..it states easy to understand, both here and other verses..this isn't my first rodeo dealing with this.
BTW, I've heard the Arabic and seen the translation..it states easy to understand, both here and other verses..this isn't my first rodeo dealing with this.
Idk why "some" and I want to make that clear, some Christians always need to compare Muhammad to Jesus. It's as if it's subconscious to compare humans. Compare Jesus to Allah. Muhammad is a man. Compare your god to my god.
Secondly, your point is invalid. Over 80% of Muslims aren't Arab and majority do not speak Arabic. And guess what, I've met Muslims from Nigeria, America, china, Russia, Germany, Kenya who none speak Arabic and can recite the Quran perfectly. Where did Muhammad force anyone to learn Arabic to be saved? If you're gonna state something, bring a verse with it's context attached.
Thirdly, you're talking to an Arab who speaks the Arabic language. If you're not larping, PM me your discord name and we can talk Arabic in a discord call to see if this is the case. Ball is in your court. We will both recite the Quran verses you've posted and to be fair, I'll recite them in Arabic first and then you.
If I was rude, pardon me.
I'm really off to bed now ciao
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08-08-2024, 10:40 PM
#275
Originally Posted By DeadlyStriker⏩
You might like the golden ratio in nature stuff bro I watched a lot of that. It's quite insane.
The greatest evidence for God that allowed me to soften towards the idea of a creator after being atheist was….Earth. It can't NOT be created. It is almost insane to allude to the idea that it is random coincidence concocted through random natural occurrence to great such a beautiful world. Everything is connected in near perfect harmony (if you let it). The Earth is a perfect organic battery. Humans are most made of water. Two machine cut perfect sized nodes, which are the sun and the moon, electric currents, storms to maintain electrical balance and regulating the climate/environment, Volcanoes as pressure releasers, mountains for stability and fresh water, and so on. It's perfect. There is a 0% chance this Earth was accidental and based off of "evolutionary arms race."
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
If God is loving, which he is, that means the opposite MUST exist. Otherwise the idea of love doesn't. God allows suffering because it has a greater purpose. He's not the source, but he permits it within his love because if we endure it in his name then we receive great spiritual benefit from it. Adam and Eve broke the covenant between man and God. It wasn't reconnected until Jesus came to fulfill the old and start the new covenant between man and God. That's why we go to heaven through him. Pain and suffering is temporary. This life isn't the end.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
If God is loving, which he is, that means the opposite MUST exist. Otherwise the idea of love doesn't. God allows suffering because it has a greater purpose. He's not the source, but he permits it within his love because if we endure it in his name then we receive great spiritual benefit from it. Adam and Eve broke the covenant between man and God. It wasn't reconnected until Jesus came to fulfill the old and start the new covenant between man and God. That's why we go to heaven through him. Pain and suffering is temporary. This life isn't the end.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
21:30
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and then We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?
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08-08-2024, 10:51 PM
#276
Originally Posted By DeadlyStriker⏩
this is a common argument, that "everything is just right" for us to exist here. But for trillions of other planets, it's not somehow?
The greatest evidence for God that allowed me to soften towards the idea of a creator after being atheist was….Earth. It can't NOT be created. It is almost insane to allude to the idea that it is random coincidence concocted through random natural occurrence to great such a beautiful world. Everything is connected in near perfect harmony (if you let it). The Earth is a perfect organic battery. Humans are most made of water. Two machine cut perfect sized nodes, which are the sun and the moon, electric currents, storms to maintain electrical balance and regulating the climate/environment, Volcanoes as pressure releasers, mountains for stability and fresh water, and so on. It's perfect. There is a 0% chance this Earth was accidental and based off of "evolutionary arms race."
if there was intelligent life on a different planet in some galaxy far, far away, it may be much hotter and/or colder, very acidic, binary stars wreaking havoc on the system, whatever, and life living there had evolved there, they would say theirs was just perfect too. because the life over there would have evolved to adapt to their own enviornment. if they came here they may die due to us having too extreme conditions for their survival
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08-09-2024, 04:24 AM
#277
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
What type of sources do you want? As stated, I’ve pulled my beliefs from lots of different places and there isn’t a single source that will outline all of my beliefs, or at least I haven’t found one. As far as factoring in the NDEs people talk about, I posted a link to a thread earlier that shares some good examples.
Brother, I meant if you could link sources or something on your position.
I think you said you're a Christian? Or maybe that view appeals to you the most?
I think you said you're a Christian? Or maybe that view appeals to you the most?
I said that most of my spiritual reflection that comes from a religious source comes from the Bible these days. There is a ton of valuable insight and spiritual food that can be found in it. I also think it is extremely valuable for a civilization to have a unifying belief, and Christianity is a great one to follow. Unfortunately culture has infected many of the churches so that they don’t serve the full purpose there are intended to.
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08-09-2024, 06:27 AM
#278
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
You claimed I needed to understand Arabic in order to understand the Quran..which is weird since you just claimed 80% don’t..so which is it? Not trying to be rude, but you seem to keep side stepping the actual points.
Go back a few posts though I asked questions and you didn't answer. You posted something about it being clear and I responded. I know what's happening it and trust me I've seen this too many times. It's this spray and pray tactic that if I can throw a bunch of things out, I might confuse him enough. I'd like to dialog lol but this isn't fruitful on my end so I'll be stopping the dialog with you after this post.
Idk why "some" and I want to make that clear, some Christians always need to compare Muhammad to Jesus. It's as if it's subconscious to compare humans. Compare Jesus to Allah. Muhammad is a man. Compare your god to my god.
Secondly, your point is invalid. Over 80% of Muslims aren't Arab and majority do not speak Arabic. And guess what, I've met Muslims from Nigeria, America, china, Russia, Germany, Kenya who none speak Arabic and can recite the Quran perfectly. Where did Muhammad force anyone to learn Arabic to be saved? If you're gonna state something, bring a verse with it's context attached.
Thirdly, you're talking to an Arab who speaks the Arabic language. If you're not larping, PM me your discord name and we can talk Arabic in a discord call to see if this is the case. Ball is in your court. We will both recite the Quran verses you've posted and to be fair, I'll recite them in Arabic first and then you.
If I was rude, pardon me.
I'm really off to bed now ciao
Idk why "some" and I want to make that clear, some Christians always need to compare Muhammad to Jesus. It's as if it's subconscious to compare humans. Compare Jesus to Allah. Muhammad is a man. Compare your god to my god.
Secondly, your point is invalid. Over 80% of Muslims aren't Arab and majority do not speak Arabic. And guess what, I've met Muslims from Nigeria, America, china, Russia, Germany, Kenya who none speak Arabic and can recite the Quran perfectly. Where did Muhammad force anyone to learn Arabic to be saved? If you're gonna state something, bring a verse with it's context attached.
Thirdly, you're talking to an Arab who speaks the Arabic language. If you're not larping, PM me your discord name and we can talk Arabic in a discord call to see if this is the case. Ball is in your court. We will both recite the Quran verses you've posted and to be fair, I'll recite them in Arabic first and then you.
If I was rude, pardon me.
I'm really off to bed now ciao
The Quran affirms the Bible, if the Bible is true (which the Quran states that it is) then the QURAN is false. The Bible never affirms the Quran..in fact it states do not follow any book that comes after it whatsoever.
Allah is a false sun god that does not exist.I can’t compare Jesus to someone that never existed
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08-09-2024, 06:45 AM
#279
Originally Posted By WiseOldApe⏩
The way that I look at it is like the following. Humans are always trying to be better or they're becoming worse. For example, even atheist online notice 'something off' about watching porn and masturbating and are disgusted by promiscuity.
Human beings are made in God's image and likeness, so when we do evil things, we know what we are doing - we always have a chance to repent and turn back from our sin to God.
Murderers, cheaters, liars, thiefs, adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, etc, all know they are doing something wrong - if it was not wrong to be gay, why would homosexuals need to band together in 'pride' and 'celebrate' their sexulaitiy if it is 'OK' and normal?
The thing about Jesus is that He's always welcoming of sinners to turn their back on sin, repent, and live a noble life. Even the worst people prison can do this.
I don't know about you, but when I was living the 'do as thou wilt' lifestyle, I'd always have some sh*tty thing happen to me and deep down I knew it was a sign or punishment from God. Look at aids for example, it's almost exclusively a gay disease or one where people are sexual in despicable ways.
I don't believe there is a single adultere, fornicator or homosexual out there who is not being bombarded by signs and warnings from God to cease their behaviour.
You and I agree more than disagree here. There are clearly certain paths that are better than others. And in my view since God is experiencing Hos existence through everything, he prefers that people maximize the positive aspects of experience and minimize the negatives. That being said, as I mentioned earlier you can’t love something unconditionally if you don’t give it freedom to act autonomously so we are free to stray very far from the preferred path. We just disagree on whether there is ever a point where God turns his back on you for eternity. And as I stated earlier, belief in a just God and belief in eternal damnation are not compatible to me. And the existence of a just God makes more sense to me than a God who will set up an obstacle course for his creation then send them to incomprehensible, eternal anguish if they don’t successfully navigate it. But there is so much positive in the Bible that I think it would be foolish to throw away a lot of the valuable material in it just because there are some parts I disagree with. If I took that approach with everything I would miss out on a ton of stuff in this life. For example, just look at these verses. For me it expresses the view that God is tied to all of Creation and is experiencing things through what he has created. So when we do something to his Creation we do it to him. I can accept that there will be pain and punishment for those who choose a path of darkness, I just don’t believe it is eternal, or that we can ever reach a state where God isn’t willing to accept us if we reach out to him.
The way that I look at it is like the following. Humans are always trying to be better or they're becoming worse. For example, even atheist online notice 'something off' about watching porn and masturbating and are disgusted by promiscuity.
Human beings are made in God's image and likeness, so when we do evil things, we know what we are doing - we always have a chance to repent and turn back from our sin to God.
Murderers, cheaters, liars, thiefs, adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, etc, all know they are doing something wrong - if it was not wrong to be gay, why would homosexuals need to band together in 'pride' and 'celebrate' their sexulaitiy if it is 'OK' and normal?
The thing about Jesus is that He's always welcoming of sinners to turn their back on sin, repent, and live a noble life. Even the worst people prison can do this.
I don't know about you, but when I was living the 'do as thou wilt' lifestyle, I'd always have some sh*tty thing happen to me and deep down I knew it was a sign or punishment from God. Look at aids for example, it's almost exclusively a gay disease or one where people are sexual in despicable ways.
I don't believe there is a single adultere, fornicator or homosexual out there who is not being bombarded by signs and warnings from God to cease their behaviour.
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33
He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34
"Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36
I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37
"Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38
When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39
When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40
"The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41
"Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43
I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44
"They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45
"He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Some will say I’m just cherry-picking out of the texts. And yes, I am. But most people do that as well and just don’t admit it.
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08-09-2024, 06:57 AM
#280
Originally Posted By DeadlyStriker⏩
I'm not saying suffering shouldn't exist. That would eliminate the natural order and human nature. My only hang up is eternal damnation, though some religions don't have this.
The greatest evidence for God that allowed me to soften towards the idea of a creator after being atheist was….Earth. It can't NOT be created. It is almost insane to allude to the idea that it is random coincidence concocted through random natural occurrence to great such a beautiful world. Everything is connected in near perfect harmony (if you let it). The Earth is a perfect organic battery. Humans are most made of water. Two machine cut perfect sized nodes, which are the sun and the moon, electric currents, storms to maintain electrical balance and regulating the climate/environment, Volcanoes as pressure releasers, mountains for stability and fresh water, and so on. It's perfect. There is a 0% chance this Earth was accidental and based off of "evolutionary arms race."
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
If God is loving, which he is, that means the opposite MUST exist. Otherwise the idea of love doesn't. God allows suffering because it has a greater purpose. He's not the source, but he permits it within his love because if we endure it in his name then we receive great spiritual benefit from it. Adam and Eve broke the covenant between man and God. It wasn't reconnected until Jesus came to fulfill the old and start the new covenant between man and God. That's why we go to heaven through him. Pain and suffering is temporary. This life isn't the end.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
If God is loving, which he is, that means the opposite MUST exist. Otherwise the idea of love doesn't. God allows suffering because it has a greater purpose. He's not the source, but he permits it within his love because if we endure it in his name then we receive great spiritual benefit from it. Adam and Eve broke the covenant between man and God. It wasn't reconnected until Jesus came to fulfill the old and start the new covenant between man and God. That's why we go to heaven through him. Pain and suffering is temporary. This life isn't the end.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
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08-09-2024, 06:59 AM
#281
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
That's the thing, this isn't Christian theology. The idea that God is everywhere and in all things is a pagan/pantheistic concept. You're fine to believe this, but it's not Christian. The Christian God is a personal God and has his own personality, etc. Humans are a creation of God and made in His image, but we are NOT God, nor is a cow nor a rock.
You and I agree more than disagree here. There are clearly certain paths that are better than others. And in my view since God is experiencing Hos existence through everything, he prefers that people maximize the positive aspects of experience and minimize the negatives. That being said, as I mentioned earlier you can’t love something unconditionally if you don’t give it freedom to act autonomously so we are free to stray very far from the preferred path. We just disagree on whether there is ever a point where God turns his back on you for eternity. And as I stated earlier, belief in a just God and belief in eternal damnation are not compatible to me. And the existence of a just God makes more sense to me than a God who will set up an obstacle course for his creation then send them to incomprehensible, eternal anguish if they don’t successfully navigate it. But there is so much positive in the Bible that I think it would be foolish to throw away a lot of the valuable material in it just because there are some parts I disagree with. If I took that approach with everything I would miss out on a ton of stuff in this life. For example, just look at these verses. For me it expresses the view that God is tied to all of Creation and is experiencing things through what he has created. So when we do something to his Creation we do it to him. I can accept that there will be pain and punishment for those who choose a path of darkness, I just don’t believe it is eternal, or that we can ever reach a state where God isn’t willing to accept us if we reach out to him.
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33
He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34
"Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36
I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37
"Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38
When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39
When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40
"The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41
"Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43
I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44
"They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45
"He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Some will say I’m just cherry-picking out of the texts. And yes, I am. But most people do that as well and just don’t admit it.
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
32
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33
He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34
"Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36
I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37
"Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38
When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39
When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40
"The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41
"Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43
I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44
"They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45
"He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Some will say I’m just cherry-picking out of the texts. And yes, I am. But most people do that as well and just don’t admit it.
The dharmic faiths have an impersonal god that's everywhere and in everything, hence why they worship cows, idols/rocks, satan, and each other by saying namaste.
Sure, we all have awareness and are alive, but we're not Jesus Christ, who has his own personality, etc. These religions other than Christianity and their deities are basically claiming that they are lords and ways to get to God, but we believe in the Holy Trinity, and the only way to the father is through the son.
Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
Yeah and when a guy is sweet talking a girl to gain access to her pussy, he doesn't say that he's going to ditch her as soon as he busts a nut. Alas, he does ditch her.
I'm not saying suffering shouldn't exist. That would eliminate the natural order and human nature. My only hang up is eternal damnation, though some religions don't have this.
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08-09-2024, 07:19 AM
#282
Originally Posted By WiseOldApe⏩
That's the thing, this isn't Christian theology. The idea that God is everywhere and in all things is a pagan/pantheistic concept. You're fine to believe this, but it's not Christian. The Christian God is a personal God and has his own personality, etc. Humans are a creation of God and made in His image, but we are NOT God, nor is a cow nor a rock.
The dharmic faiths have an impersonal god that's everywhere and in everything, hence why they worship cows, idols/rocks, satan, and each other by saying namaste.
Sure, we all have awareness and are alive, but we're not Jesus Christ, who has his own personality, etc. These religions other than Christianity and their deities are basically claiming that they are lords and ways to get to God, but we believe in the Holy Trinity, and the only way to the father is through the son.
The dharmic faiths have an impersonal god that's everywhere and in everything, hence why they worship cows, idols/rocks, satan, and each other by saying namaste.
Sure, we all have awareness and are alive, but we're not Jesus Christ, who has his own personality, etc. These religions other than Christianity and their deities are basically claiming that they are lords and ways to get to God, but we believe in the Holy Trinity, and the only way to the father is through the son.
I guess it depends on how you interpret this:
The King will reply, ` I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.
To me, that means that God is a part of everything, so if I do something for you I also do it for God.
Or these verses:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
We are all part of the same body, which is God…that’s how I interpret that. To follow the path that Jesus laid out is the best way to conduct yourself, which is also the best way for the whole to move forward towards light and love. I think it is better for God’s creation to have someone who may not necessarily believe Jesus is the only way to salvation yet walks the path that Jesus instructed us to walk than it is for a guy to spend 80 years bringing horrible pain and suffering into the body of God then at the very end say “oops my bad now I realize that Jesus is the only way to heaven”. To send the first person to eternal damnation for what they believe while welcoming the second into eternal bliss is not a just way to operate. ALL will have to answer for their own sins, though I don’t think eternal damnation is an answer that a just God would give.
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08-09-2024, 07:28 AM
#283
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Bro, you need to talk to an actual priest or monk. Try an orthodox or catholic church. You can't just look for stuff in the bible that confirms hinduism, for example. Christianity is monotheistic. Our God has His own unique personality and is seperate to His creation, yet has sovereignty over it.
I guess it depends on how you interpret this:
The King will reply, ` I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.
To me, that means that God is a part of everything, so if I do something for you I also do it for God.
Or these verses:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
We are all part of the same body, which is God…that’s how I interpret that. To follow the path that Jesus laid out is the best way to conduct yourself, which is also the best way for the whole to move forward towards light and love. I think it is better for God’s creation to have someone who may not necessarily believe Jesus is the only way to salvation yet walks the path that Jesus instructed us to walk than it is for a guy to spend 80 years bringing horrible pain and suffering into the body of God then at the very end say “oops my bad now I realize that Jesus is the only way to heaven”. To send the first person to eternal damnation for what they believe while welcoming the second into eternal bliss is not a just way to operate. ALL will have to answer for their own sins, though I don’t think eternal damnation is an answer that a just God would give.
The King will reply, ` I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.
To me, that means that God is a part of everything, so if I do something for you I also do it for God.
Or these verses:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
We are all part of the same body, which is God…that’s how I interpret that. To follow the path that Jesus laid out is the best way to conduct yourself, which is also the best way for the whole to move forward towards light and love. I think it is better for God’s creation to have someone who may not necessarily believe Jesus is the only way to salvation yet walks the path that Jesus instructed us to walk than it is for a guy to spend 80 years bringing horrible pain and suffering into the body of God then at the very end say “oops my bad now I realize that Jesus is the only way to heaven”. To send the first person to eternal damnation for what they believe while welcoming the second into eternal bliss is not a just way to operate. ALL will have to answer for their own sins, though I don’t think eternal damnation is an answer that a just God would give.
Pagans, buddhist, hindus, etc, believe in brahman or a concept similar to brahman, which is their supreme reality or 'god' in the classical sense. Their deities are not gods in the classical sense of what God is, they're just powerful spiritual beings which reside in the astral realm(s), but because brahman is unrelatable, they try to get there through worshipping cows, snakes, scorpions, and various spirits and demons behind these idols, etc.
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08-09-2024, 08:32 AM
#284
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Let me use you actually to educate and give a better response.
You claimed I needed to understand Arabic in order to understand the Quran..which is weird since you just claimed 80% don’t..so which is it? Not trying to be rude, but you seem to keep side stepping the actual points.
The Quran affirms the Bible, if the Bible is true (which the Quran states that it is) then the QURAN is false. The Bible never affirms the Quran..in fact it states do not follow any book that comes after it whatsoever.
Allah is a false sun god that does not exist.I can’t compare Jesus to someone that never existed
The Quran affirms the Bible, if the Bible is true (which the Quran states that it is) then the QURAN is false. The Bible never affirms the Quran..in fact it states do not follow any book that comes after it whatsoever.
Allah is a false sun god that does not exist.I can’t compare Jesus to someone that never existed
I suggest that firstly you talk with DeadlyStriker about Christianity or WiseOldApe brother. At least they are giving their views and even asking question (WiseOldApe asking me about sacrifical laws, DeadlyStriker talking about his experience reading the Quran and discussing with Muslims). Even the agnostic/atheist crew has been respectful. I don't know what you get out of calling other peoples God a sun god.
Start a thread about Islam though and post your points there I'm sure it will be popular on the misc…you'll get the replies you are looking for. This is a thread to talk about your viewpoint like I said in the OP.
For everyone else, just to educate you on Allah being a sun god. We have phones at our fingertips today and people in the past used to travel months seeking knowledge. Ignorance shouldn't be something that exists with the information that we have at our disposal.
41:37
Among His signs are the day and the night, the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them ˹all˺, if you ˹truly˺ worship Him ˹alone˺.
Also, for everyone else. In Islam, we aren't to bash other peoples entities, even if we believe they are false. I've posted the verse already early but will again. Do I think Jesus is God? Absolutely not. But I ain't gonna mock that stance either.
6:108
˹O believers!˺ Do not insult what they invoke besides Allah or they will insult Allah spitefully out of ignorance. This is how We have made each people’s deeds appealing to them. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them of what they used to do.
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08-09-2024, 08:53 AM
#285
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
What if different civilizations have opposing views (say salvation in Christianity vs Islam). How do you reconcile? Can true and false return true? You said it's a great "one". Can there be more than 1?
What type of sources do you want? As stated, I’ve pulled my beliefs from lots of different places and there isn’t a single source that will outline all of my beliefs, or at least I haven’t found one. As far as factoring in the NDEs people talk about, I posted a link to a thread earlier that shares some good examples.
I said that most of my spiritual reflection that comes from a religious source comes from the Bible these days. There is a ton of valuable insight and spiritual food that can be found in it. I also think it is extremely valuable for a civilization to have a unifying belief, and Christianity is a great one to follow. Unfortunately culture has infected many of the churches so that they don’t serve the full purpose there are intended to.
I said that most of my spiritual reflection that comes from a religious source comes from the Bible these days. There is a ton of valuable insight and spiritual food that can be found in it. I also think it is extremely valuable for a civilization to have a unifying belief, and Christianity is a great one to follow. Unfortunately culture has infected many of the churches so that they don’t serve the full purpose there are intended to.
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08-09-2024, 08:55 AM
#286
Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
What if it does exist is the question and there's no escaping. It is a daunting thought. Have you considered just that side of it?
I'm not saying suffering shouldn't exist. That would eliminate the natural order and human nature. My only hang up is eternal damnation, though some religions don't have this.
Have you read those other religions? Any you like?
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08-09-2024, 09:26 AM
#287
I still don't believe that actual God gets a kick out of forcing people to suffer or cause them issues for no reason, a lot of things are due to a whole lot more than just what people normally curse whatever they have faith in
unless and only unless the suffering of someone leads them into something better
unless and only unless the suffering of someone leads them into something better
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08-09-2024, 09:35 AM
#288
Originally Posted By DeadlyStriker⏩
The greatest evidence for God that allowed me to soften towards the idea of a creator after being atheist was….Earth. It can't NOT be created. It is almost insane to allude to the idea that it is random coincidence concocted through random natural occurrence to great such a beautiful world. Everything is connected in near perfect harmony (if you let it). The Earth is a perfect organic battery. Humans are most made of water. Two machine cut perfect sized nodes, which are the sun and the moon, electric currents, storms to maintain electrical balance and regulating the climate/environment, Volcanoes as pressure releasers, mountains for stability and fresh water, and so on. It's perfect. There is a 0% chance this Earth was accidental and based off of "evolutionary arms race."
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
If God is loving, which he is, that means the opposite MUST exist. Otherwise the idea of love doesn't. God allows suffering because it has a greater purpose. He's not the source, but he permits it within his love because if we endure it in his name then we receive great spiritual benefit from it. Adam and Eve broke the covenant between man and God. It wasn't reconnected until Jesus came to fulfill the old and start the new covenant between man and God. That's why we go to heaven through him. Pain and suffering is temporary. This life isn't the end.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
Our frequency, the world, the stars, the day and night, everything is interconnected and it is not by accident.
If God is loving, which he is, that means the opposite MUST exist. Otherwise the idea of love doesn't. God allows suffering because it has a greater purpose. He's not the source, but he permits it within his love because if we endure it in his name then we receive great spiritual benefit from it. Adam and Eve broke the covenant between man and God. It wasn't reconnected until Jesus came to fulfill the old and start the new covenant between man and God. That's why we go to heaven through him. Pain and suffering is temporary. This life isn't the end.
I truly hope you do come back to Christ, and I understand we are all on a journey. I was atheist for a long period, then agnostic, recent years become quite religious. God bless bro.
Thats my same thought process, except i dont attribute it to a God per se. I just believe we were created, as nothing else makes sense TBH. The evolution theory is just like a fairy tale for grown ups to me, that for whatever reason is accepted as the absolute truth. Its like 100 years ago when everyone believed in God, or 1000 years ago when everyone believed the earth to be in the center of the universe. Its just nonsensical.
When you think about some processes of life that we take for granted or think its just basic knowledge, like for instance, pregnancy. If you really think about it, its anything but simple, its incredibly ****ing complex. Dude carries genetic code of himself on his balls, code that is a combination of his own plus all of his ancestors and every sperm is different, then he gets an erection due to another whole different complex ass process to literally get his meat erect and put it inside a womans body, then releasing millions of sperm carrying different genetic code, they race each other in their own micro universe to see if one reaches the egg, then if one does, they combine, the code of the egg and the sperm form a new code, then it starts absorbing energy(food) from the woman and starts growing inside her, forming a new gotdamn human being out of ****ing nothing, carrying the genetic code of both parent's ancestors from billions of years before. Then that baby repeats that process decades later…
The world is full of complex processes like that one that are crucial to existence itself, millions or billions of processes as crazy as that one… You really gonna tell me we came from literal dust, or literal nothing, to that? Just by random? A 4th grader can explain you how pregnancy works, but if you really think about it, you really gonna believe this bull**** is random?
Taking the present as my basepoint, and knowing what i know about humanity, what humans are capable of, seeing how technology has advanced since i was playing mario bros on the NES, and now 30 years later you can play a huge ass complex game like red dead redemption or whatever, then AI comes producing data that legit makes you wonder if its manmade or AI… what things are we gonna be producing in 300 years? What about 1000 years?
When i think about it, i think its much more likely that we gonna be able to simulate a whole new reality in the future, a whole new universe that follows our universe's laws, maybe in the next 1000 years, maybe way earlier, i believe that to be much more likely than i believe on the chances of all this **** just being a random ass chain of event that took billions of billions of years.
"The flowers bloom, then wither… The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
08-09-2024, 09:43 AM
#289
A lot of points exchanged and I'm learning some stuff so good job people
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08-09-2024, 09:49 AM
#290
Originally Posted By WiseOldApe⏩
Yes, and I’m a monotheist as well. I never said there were multiple gods, I said God is present in everything. I also believe in benevolent and malevolent entities like you do. I don’t worship anything other than God, so not sure how your point about worshipping other spirits applies to me.
Bro, you need to talk to an actual priest or monk. Try an orthodox or catholic church. You can't just look for stuff in the bible that confirms hinduism, for example. Christianity is monotheistic. Our God has His own unique personality and is seperate to His creation, yet has sovereignty over it.
Pagans, buddhist, hindus, etc, believe in brahman or a concept similar to brahman, which is their supreme reality or 'god' in the classical sense. Their deities are not gods in the classical sense of what God is, they're just powerful spiritual beings which reside in the astral realm(s), but because brahman is unrelatable, they try to get there through worshipping cows, snakes, scorpions, and various spirits and demons behind these idols, etc.
Pagans, buddhist, hindus, etc, believe in brahman or a concept similar to brahman, which is their supreme reality or 'god' in the classical sense. Their deities are not gods in the classical sense of what God is, they're just powerful spiritual beings which reside in the astral realm(s), but because brahman is unrelatable, they try to get there through worshipping cows, snakes, scorpions, and various spirits and demons behind these idols, etc.
And also, we’ve moved on from the concept of a just God torturing his creations because they failed to successfully navigate an illusion that he set up. You never really explained how that would work, or how eternal damnation can be justified.
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08-09-2024, 11:24 AM
#291
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
I would only need to reconcile if I tried to merge two contradictory beliefs from each one. I may take some beliefs from Christianity, but not all of them. I don’t take an all-or-nothing approach, which I think allows me to be open to many positive and helpful views.
What if different civilizations have opposing views (say salvation in Christianity vs Islam). How do you reconcile? Can true and false return true? You said it's a great "one". Can there be more than 1?
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08-09-2024, 11:34 AM
#292
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
That's not very intelligent considering if you take multiple views and one of them says "Only to worship that one", and that one is the correct one, then what?
I would only need to reconcile if I tried to merge two contradictory beliefs from each one. I may take some beliefs from Christianity, but not all of them. I don’t take an all-or-nothing approach, which I think allows me to be open to many positive and helpful views.
Ofc you could just say that won't happen but we're not debating that side. We both agree on a starting point of some creator.
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08-09-2024, 11:52 AM
#293
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
You’re misunderstanding… you think by views I mean all the views of that particular religion or belief system, but I don’t. Do you think that since I don’t believe God sends billions of humans to hell to suffer eternal damnation it means I should automatically disregard any teaching from the Bible? Or maybe a better example for you would be Islam. Do you think that if I can find a single thing in the Quran I disagree with then I should dismiss all of it?
That's not very intelligent considering if you take multiple views and one of them says "Only to worship that one", and that one is the correct one, then what?
Ofc you could just say that won't happen but we're not debating that side. We both agree on a starting point of some creator.
Ofc you could just say that won't happen but we're not debating that side. We both agree on a starting point of some creator.
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08-09-2024, 12:02 PM
#294
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
I've considered that it exists because I used to believe in it. Anything that exists after we die is pure speculation from other humans united you believe God gave certain people the exact details and they wrote it down a few thousand years ago.
What if it does exist is the question and there's no escaping. It is a daunting thought. Have you considered just that side of it?
Have you read those other religions? Any you like?
Have you read those other religions? Any you like?
As for other religions, one I like is Buddhism, though you could argue it's more of a philosophy than a religion since there's not really a God involved.
Judaism has their own unique take on the afterlife, with some believing that souls they don't go to heaven have to be cleansed first before they can. If there's a heaven and hell, this idea makes the most sense to me.
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08-09-2024, 12:34 PM
#295
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
It's a challenge in the Quran (Chapter 4, Verse 82).
You’re misunderstanding… you think by views I mean all the views of that particular religion or belief system, but I don’t. Do you think that since I don’t believe God sends billions of humans to hell to suffer eternal damnation it means I should automatically disregard any teaching from the Bible? Or maybe a better example for you would be Islam. Do you think that if I can find a single thing in the Quran I disagree with then I should dismiss all of it?
Yes, if it's from God and God is all knowing and all the other attributes we ascribe to him, his book should be as well. If a book contains a single contradiction, it's not from God (my view). You're free to disagree that's not my position to compel you. Gotta find truth for yourself.
I think we are talking different things. The example I gave was the afterlife. I am not talking about books that have some good things and some not so good things.
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08-09-2024, 12:50 PM
#296
Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
It is speculation but just giving you some food for thought. Consider it my friend.
I've considered that it exists because I used to believe in it. Anything that exists after we die is pure speculation from other humans united you believe God gave certain people the exact details and they wrote it down a few thousand years ago.
As for other religions, one I like is Buddhism, though you could argue it's more of a philosophy than a religion since there's not really a God involved.
Judaism has their own unique take on the afterlife, with some believing that souls they don't go to heaven have to be cleansed first before they can. If there's a heaven and hell, this idea makes the most sense to me.
As for other religions, one I like is Buddhism, though you could argue it's more of a philosophy than a religion since there's not really a God involved.
Judaism has their own unique take on the afterlife, with some believing that souls they don't go to heaven have to be cleansed first before they can. If there's a heaven and hell, this idea makes the most sense to me.
Yeah I was going to say that about Buddhism.
I believe they call it "Gehenna" in Judaism (which in Arabic, it is closely related and called "Jahanam"). Although they may differ, it's the place of some punishment (they call it cleansing).
For context, in Islam, there will be a category that is punished first for their sins but eventually will be permitted into paradise. They are the ones who deserve it but they still believed in Allah.
People who didn't hear about the message, people who heard ISIS version of Islam, people who were persecuted, people who were not old enough to be held accountable such as kids (usually up until the age of puberty) and all the other reasons, Allah knows best their reason. It is only those who themselves chose after having the choice willingly and with knowledge that will remain there. No one should blame anyone but themselves if they are in that category.
Cheers brah good talking
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08-09-2024, 01:13 PM
#297
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
Oh, gotcha. As far as sources about my beliefs on the afterlife and the ability to have God remove a soul from hell…I have shared a link to a thread with first hand accounts. There are lots of people who have died and gone to hell only to have God save them from the experience. I don’t think that can only happen when a person is revived. I believe that a person can be fully dead and experiencing hell yet still be saved from the experience by the grace of God.
It's a challenge in the Quran (Chapter 4, Verse 82).
Yes, if it's from God and God is all knowing and all the other attributes we ascribe to him, his book should be as well. If a book contains a single contradiction, it's not from God (my view). You're free to disagree that's not my position to compel you. Gotta find truth for yourself.
I think we are talking different things. The example I gave was the afterlife. I am not talking about books that have some good things and some not so good things.
Yes, if it's from God and God is all knowing and all the other attributes we ascribe to him, his book should be as well. If a book contains a single contradiction, it's not from God (my view). You're free to disagree that's not my position to compel you. Gotta find truth for yourself.
I think we are talking different things. The example I gave was the afterlife. I am not talking about books that have some good things and some not so good things.
And yes I agree with your point about if a book is from God it won’t have contradictions. However, I believe it is impossible for a person to fully comprehend God. And even if it was possible to do so in our earthly bodies, it would be impossible for the person who comprehended it to explain it to another person. I think we can move closer towards a harmonious existence more in line with what is optimal for us and God, but I don’t believe there is any book that came from God. And if there was, the flawless aspect of it would be broken during the very first translation anyway.
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08-10-2024, 07:58 AM
#298
+positiv crew+
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08-10-2024, 12:03 PM
#299
What I don't understand is why people that are staunchly religious become sad when a loved-one dies. Shouldn't they be happy for them knowing they're in a better place? Otherwise it appears as if they have doubts about whether or not an afterlife is real.
08-10-2024, 12:14 PM
#300
Originally Posted By Maestro⏩
You're projecting
What I don't understand is why people that are staunchly religious become sad when a loved-one dies. Shouldn't they be happy for them knowing they're in a better place? Otherwise it appears as if they have doubts about whether or not an afterlife is real.
It is indeed the best time if they are righteous (in Islam)
Yes, we are humans and have feelings but at the same time, we also believe that if they are righteous, they are in a better place, God willing.
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