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Forum » It's 2017 do people still believe calories in = calories out?
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Thread: It's 2017 do people still believe calories in = calories out?

post 1487084311 03-13-2017, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
I didn't realize I was writing a college theseus over here; I always lol at people who think they are superior when they call someone out on their grammar and sentence structure. I'm merely trying to get my point across. I know science and physics very well actually and like I said with the other gentlemen, our bodies aren't steam boilers where the principles of energy and thermo processes are valid. Human bodies are infinitely more complex with 8 major hormones at play, which is why biological not physics dominates how the body regulates its weight.
literally did not read. your level of retardation is reaching epic proportions, even for this forum lmao. Starting to think you might be a troll
post 1487084361 03-13-2017, 07:52 PM
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yes but we also believe in micro/macro nutrients affecting energy and health
squeeze your glutes and press
post 1487084461 03-13-2017, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By jesusxchrist⏩
So will you gain or lose weight if you drink 3,000 cals of semen a day? Asking for a friend.
Depends how hard are you working for that semen?
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post 1487084571 03-13-2017, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
I didn't realize I was writing a college theseus over here; I always lol at people who think they are superior when they call someone out on their grammar and sentence structure. I'm merely trying to get my point across. I know science and physics very well actually and like I said with the other gentlemen, our bodies aren't steam boilers where the principles of energy and thermo processes are valid. Human bodies are infinitely more complex with 8 major hormones at play, which is why biological not physics dominates how the body regulates its weight.
Are you saying the law of thermodynamics doesn't apply to humans?
post 1487084601 03-13-2017, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted By martin545⏩
2000 fruit/veggie calories is better than 2000 calories of candy. All the nutrients and vitamins.
Exactly. The micronutrients interacts with the energy management system which effects the rate at which energy is managed imo.
post 1487084731 03-13-2017, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted By CoolKnees⏩
It's called the first LAW of thermodynamics, not a rule, a LAW. You simply cannot violate it.

Show me one example, ONE where a person gained weight after eating nothing. I will get down on my knees and suck your tiny 3 inch dick if you do.

I will admit that hormones can definitely affect the rate at which your body burns calories (ie calories out is reduced) but to say the first law doesn't apply to humans is incredibly ignorant. Fck you OP you little gay boy.
Let me guess you took 1 physics class in college and now you think your a god damn expert? No crap its a law no one is arguing that, but these laws apply to machines and equipment not damn human bodies. These laws were established to better understand energy transfer in systems like refrigeration systems, steam systems, diesel engines, gas turbines, HVAC, etc. I never said that if you eat nothing you will gain weight of course that is absurd but I am saying there is more to losing fat than just a simple caloric deficit, there is a lot more at play including the role of insulin and other fat storing/burning hormones.
post 1487085391 03-13-2017, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted By 420Layers⏩
Are you saying the law of thermodynamics doesn't apply to humans?
That is exactly what I am saying. This isn't groundbreaking news, thermodynamic laws were always intended to be for machinery, closed loop systems. Biological factors is the more appropriate term to use when distinguishing weight loss/gain
post 1487085711 03-13-2017, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
Let me guess you took 1 physics class in college and now you think your a god damn expert? No crap its a law no one is arguing that, but these laws apply to machines and equipment not damn human bodies. These laws were established to better understand energy transfer in systems like refrigeration systems, steam systems, diesel engines, gas turbines, HVAC, etc. I never said that if you eat nothing you will gain weight of course that is absurd but I am saying there is more to losing fat than just a simple caloric deficit, there is a lot more at play including the role of insulin and other fat storing/burning hormones.
Please explain to me how the human body differs from the systems you listed in terms of energy transfer? Does the energy from the food somehow get transfered in a different manner than machines? It's still input output.

I just want to clarify I am talking about pure weight loss. If you are talking about losing BF % then I will agree that going beyond CICO definitely helps but I still maintain the position that any successful cut must have a caloric deficit as a base.
post 1487085851 03-13-2017, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted By Kabamaro⏩
What was his diet before?

It could be a combination of losing water weight and increased neat + thermogenic effect of eating more food
Possibly the latter but he started I think like 149 lbs around 7.5% bf and ended like 147 7.2% bf I think if i remember correctly so losing water weight would be out of the question but is surely interesting and has caused a huge stir in the community because it goes against all we have ever thought before with the calores in/out premise.
post 1487086741 03-13-2017, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted By CoolKnees⏩
Please explain to me how the human body differs from the systems you listed in terms of energy transfer? Does the energy from the food somehow get transfered in a different manner than machines? It's still input output.

I just want to clarify I am talking about pure weight loss. If you are talking about losing BF % then I will agree that going beyond CICO definitely helps but I still maintain the position that any successful cut must have a caloric deficit as a base.
I'm not going to pretend like I know how the human body regulates its energy input as there are so many factors at play, so google would probably be a better option, but unlike machines we have 8 hormones which are all controlled by what types of food we eat and can to a certain extent determine whether the body will utilize energy in the form of glucose, store fat or burn fat. If you look at a simple steam cycle it is easy to calculate energy inputs and work outputs as everything is clearly defined in terms of enthalpy (fancy for heat content) so it is essentially just using math to find what kind of output you get for a determined input using heat balance calculations. All you have to keep in mind is that calorie counting isn't the be all end all to fat loss (if that is what you are after). I can recall countless threads on this board stating something along the lines of "Why am I not losing fat, i'm eating 1k under TDEE", well if it were a simple thermo equation we would never have these types of threads but unfortunately it's not that easy as we can see.
post 1487087481 03-13-2017, 08:19 PM
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Yeah, I'll stick with calories in/calories out. Thanks.
I Love Kevin
post 1487087871 03-13-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
maybe due to poor absorption. you can eat 10k calories a day laying in bed and lose 5lbs of mass a week if you chase it with laxatives

also weight loss can have nothing to do with fat/muscle loss. dropping carbs/salt alone could mean huge weight loss due to water
Possibly I don't know how efficient some bodies are at absorption/non-absorption. As far as the second part, he has been running a keto diet for over a year so his carbs were very low way before he even started the experiment so that does not apply. It is very interesting and I hope to see a few more of these types of practical field type experiments conducted as long as they are carefully controlled.
post 1487088451 03-13-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted By Sensuality⏩
Yeah, I'll stick with calories in/calories out. Thanks.
You have any new nudes you post lately?
post 1487089251 03-13-2017, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
That is exactly what I am saying. This isn't groundbreaking news, thermodynamic laws were always intended to be for machinery, closed loop systems. Biological factors is the more appropriate term to use when distinguishing weight loss/gain
You're an idiot.

Not all calories will be used by the body, yes but input calories will always equal output calories.

That's why we poop.
post 1487089331 03-13-2017, 08:36 PM
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#45
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Can you control your weight strictly by caloric intake no matter what food it comes from? Yes, but whether that weight is made up of fat or muscle depends on what you ate, therefore a calorie is not just a calorie, that's my take on it
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post 1487090171 03-13-2017, 08:43 PM
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Bodyweight is controlled by calories in vs. calories out.

Body composition however is largely determined by nutrition.

500 cal of sugar and 500 cal of veggies will have very different effects on your body composition.
post 1487090191 03-13-2017, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted By 420Layers⏩
You're an idiot.

Not all calories will be used by the body, yes but input calories will always equal output calories.

That's why we poop.
I don't appreciate being called an idiot, i'm trying to have a civil discussion. So what determines how much energy from the food we utilize, how much is stored as fat, and how much is discharged as poop?
Originally Posted By JaymzJ⏩
Can you control your weight strictly by caloric intake no matter what food it comes from? Yes, but whether that weight is made up of fat or muscle depends on what you ate, therefore a calorie is not just a calorie, that's my take on it
That is a very good way to look at it but say your TDEE is 2.5k and one week you eat 3k of non-starchy vegetables and the other week you eat 3k of just pop tarts. You honestly think the weight gain would be the same?
post 1487090911 03-13-2017, 08:50 PM
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hormones + magic = shredded

Trump and ISIS don't want you to know this man, read the signs.
Eat in a deficit to lose weight.
Hit your protein and fat minimums to stay healthy and keep your gainz.
Lift heavy and do HIIT to look and feel awesome.
Use the internet to learn why you should do these things and how to do these things.
post 1487091531 03-13-2017, 08:57 PM
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please tell me op isn't serious
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Pure Blood Master Race
post 1487091991 03-13-2017, 09:01 PM
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i've tried dieting on IIFYM, dont get good results tbh. look bloated in the face and muscles are flat. human body is very complex
post 1487092231 03-13-2017, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
That is a very good way to look at it but say your TDEE is 2.5k and one week you eat 3k of non-starchy vegetables and the other week you eat 3k of just pop tarts. You honestly think the weight gain would be the same?
You are probably right, the weight wouldn't be exactly the same but I don't know how significant that weight difference would be either but I really don't know, I can tell you are a thinking man, I like that but I always look for the simplest approach to things as to not over complicate it for myself.
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post 1487092331 03-13-2017, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted By ftbwtb⏩
please tell me op isn't serious
Care to elaborate? What about what I said doesn't sit well with you and your perceptions of how weight is regulated?
post 1487092751 03-13-2017, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted By JaymzJ⏩
You are probably right, the weight wouldn't be exactly the same but I don't know how significant that weight difference would be either but I really don't know, I can tell you are a thinking man, I like that but I always look for the simplest approach to things as to not over complicate it for myself.
Agreed the simplest approach is generally the way to go as most people will be more inclined to stick with a specific way of eating if it is easy in nature. Yeah, I would like to see some other real world experiments done such as the aforementioned so we can finally get some conclusive evidence and closure on the whole nutrition scene.
post 1487092841 03-13-2017, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
So I guess there are no doctors who advocated for a keto type of approach to dieting? And I am going to take advice from some carrot top looking mofo doing shirtless olympic lifts?
just because you eat keto does not mean that calories don't matter... people who eat keto generally have a harder time consuming a larger # of calories and thus eat less and lose weight.
post 1487093011 03-13-2017, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted By krazy33⏩
I mean i get calories are calories

But really 4,000 calories of Doritos aren't the same as 4,000 calories of grilled chicken

Wonder what would happen if you went on a dorito only diet. I mean obviously a grilled chicken only diet would have its pitfalls too but one is prob hitting a much broader range of micronutrients + vitamins
weight /= body composition, the person eating the doritos will have a ****ty body but be the same weight as the person eating the chicken
post 1487093061 03-13-2017, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
That is exactly what I am saying. This isn't groundbreaking news, thermodynamic laws were always intended to be for machinery, closed loop systems. Biological factors is the more appropriate term to use when distinguishing weight loss/gain
How the **** can this retard post how the law of thermodynamics doesn't relate to humans and not be red??


No idiot, its not just a law for just "machines." It quite literally applies to everything, from the creation of worlds, to your stupid little peanut brain.
Ol' 71st street. The devil that birthed me.

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post 1487094381 03-13-2017, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩


Jason Wittrock did a 4,000 calorie/day test on a keto type diet which would technically be well over his TDEE yet he lost weight, so the whole theory of calories in = calories out holds no weight.
In those 21 days he lost 2 pounds and ate 30 grams of carbs a day. During this time, his glycogen levels were depleted so he probably lost about 1 pound of glycogen. Each gram of glycogen carries 3 grams of water with it. What do you think happened when he started to eat carbs again?
post 1487094411 03-13-2017, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
How the **** can this retard post how the law of thermodynamics doesn't relate to humans and not be red??


No idiot, its not just a law for just "machines." It quite literally applies to everything, from the creation of worlds, to your stupid little peanut brain.
Ok, then since I am so clueless, explain the energy cycle as it relates to a human body and how this energy input interacts with our major hormones in our body? The laws don't take into account biological functions and hormonal functions from our endocrine system, that is why a simple heat/energy balance calculation on the human body is in my opinion too simple for the complexity of it all.
post 1487094721 03-13-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted By DeltaI80⏩
In those 21 days he lost 2 pounds and ate 30 grams of carbs a day. During this time, his glycogen levels were depleted so he probably lost about 1 pound of glycogen. Each gram of glycogen carries 3 grams of water with it. What do you think happened when he started to eat carbs again?
Sheesh, like I said previously, Jason has been doing keto for over a year now so long before he conducted this experiment he was already eating very low carb so there was no loss of water weight as he was already low on glycogen and water. He merely increased his caloric intake to see the result. For all those claiming 1st law of thermo, how can you explain a obvious surplus in calories every day for 21 days and yet not a lb was gained? Surely, there is an explanation?
post 1487094911 03-13-2017, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
How the **** can this retard post how the law of thermodynamics doesn't relate to humans and not be red??


No idiot, its not just a law for just "machines." It quite literally applies to everything, from the creation of worlds, to your stupid little peanut brain.
OP is what happens when you tell the stupid kids that they are just as good as the smart kids. The new gen "smart kids table" is all inclusive.
Eat in a deficit to lose weight.
Hit your protein and fat minimums to stay healthy and keep your gainz.
Lift heavy and do HIIT to look and feel awesome.
Use the internet to learn why you should do these things and how to do these things.
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