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Forum » fukkin stupid that you're bottlenecked into the 9/5 cause of no resources or time
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Thread: fukkin stupid that you're bottlenecked into the 9/5 cause of no resources or time

post 1619066601 10-11-2020, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted By quadfecta⏩
Just be born into money

Or do it like 99% of the “rich people” out there and inherit wealth through generational transfer, then flex on everyone else making them think you’re self made
"I am a rational animal who occupies the intermediary position between angel and beast"

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post 1619066911 10-11-2020, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
Payoff just isn't there for law grads anymore.

https://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/...wyer-salaries/

Who's going to pay 200k for law school, only to get out making 60k? lol.

That field of work has become so diluted over time it's become a joke.
Yup. The salaries are bimodal - you're either a $200K baller or a $60K public defender - but the debt is unimodal. With the kind of debt you take on, you're forced to get into a top school and do well in it or you're finished.

I probably have the intellectual horsepower to get admitted to a T25 or T14 (had a friend on about my level who made it into Duke), but there's some super smart fukkers at Duke too. That friend is hanging around the bottom third of his class right now, so it'll be interesting to see where he ends up. His folks make about $350K combined salary annually, so I'm sure he'll have a little help if he doesn't get into some baller BigLaw job that will cover his loans. I don't have that security.
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post 1619067171 10-11-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted By FA*******⏩
Yup. The salaries are bimodal - you're either a $200K baller or a $60K public defender - but the debt is unimodal. With the kind of debt you take on, you're forced to get into a top school and do well in it or you're finished.

I probably have the intellectual horsepower to get admitted to a T25 or T14 (had a friend on about my level who made it into Duke), but there's some super smart fukkers at Duke too. That friend is hanging around the bottom third of his class right now, so it'll be interested to see where he ends up. His folks make about $350K combined salary annually, so I'm sure he'll have a little help if he doesn't get into some baller BigLaw job that will cover his loans. I don't have that security.
I have a friend who graduated from Georgetown, got barred, and didn't even end up practicing lol.
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post 1619067751 10-11-2020, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
So in your example it worked out better for you?
More of I've walked too far down the road I'm on to go back and change it.

NowifI started down the law school road a couple years ago, andifI graduated with some baller BigLaw job, I'd be making 2x what I do right now. Nut there's a very real risk that I don't get that. It's like spinning a roulette wheel: if it hits black, I become stupid fukkin rich. If it hits red, I end up as a public defender with a lifetime of debt. I took the safer bet with a STEM degree rather than go to law school and pretty much betting my whole life on landing on black.

For the rich, the equation's different. It's like if it hits black I become stupid fukking rich, if it hits red I'm fine because mommy and daddy will take care of me. I may be a broke-ass public defender, but they'll still buy me a new car. So why not take the spin?

Rich kids get to go into the casino and play with house money. I'm playing with gas money.
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I just re-read your post... Why would you lose the money you make over the next three years?
Not understanding opportunity cost explains a lot about you, really.
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post 1619068201 10-11-2020, 01:37 PM
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Play the long game, work your ass off with the goal of setting up your next generation for success. Assuming you want to have kids that is

No point worrying about the advantages you weren't given, best you can do is try to break the cycle
post 1619069101 10-11-2020, 01:47 PM
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Assuming you get 8 hours of sleep every day there’s 16 hrs where you can be productive each day

A few hours get eaten by daily tasks, commute, eating, the gym. Assuming a standard 9-5 job we will say youre left with 3-4 hours every weekday.

3-4 hours every weekday and you have 8-12 hrs on weekends.

That’s 31-44 hrs every week that could be spent on a side profession. Or about a full time jobs worth of hours.

Most people just waste that time relaxing, beating off, spending money on **** they don’t need, drinking, etc
post 1619069511 10-11-2020, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted By wave_length⏩
The question is whether free will and especially the proof of its existence is a topic of neuroscience or philosophy. It is the latter.
Hey buddy,

If you have an argument for freewill I'd like to see it.

Link me to it. Whatever.
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post 1619069711 10-11-2020, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
Hey buddy,

If you have an argument for freewill I'd like to see it.

Link me to it. Whatever.
ok, but here's the thing. again, i think it's different than people think

what is the opposite of free-will? deterministic or determinism?

very simple example without going into things: if life were 100% deterministic that would mean you can't control the outcomes .

so, if you were fat lets say, that means you'd always be fat. you'd never veer away from that because from the onset, at 100% determined, it was always determined that you'd be fat. there would be no difference or fluctuation.

yet, you're on a bodybuilding site where people build their bodies. lose weight, gain weight, etc., etc.

so, while this is not 100% proof of "free-will" what it does introduce is "choice". even though this choice can stem from something by design, there are still more outcomes than pure 100% determinism. which can give theILLUSION(or it could still be real) of free will. or at the very least can lead toward hints of more control. would be interesting to see someone specify the quantity and degree to which they discern "control"
post 1619069831 10-11-2020, 02:00 PM
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OP has just done his first day of work.
I identify as a chad with a jawline so chiseled it can cut diamond, don't assume my genetics

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post 1619070411 10-11-2020, 02:08 PM
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A. If you're born in the western world to an average family, and you cant escape the 9-5/make bank/ be free etc. Thats all on YOU. The opportunity is there, you just didnt take it. No one's fault but your own lack of action.

B. Working 9-5 -> 40 hours a week is average hours for an average life. The real winners dont work 40 hours a weeks, they regularly clock 80+. Business owner or inventor - available 24/7, doctor - regularly clocks 36 hours continuously in residency, investment banking - self explanatory, athlete - literally working all day long. If you think 40 hours a week is alot, you're in an average career, have an average mindset, and then dont be complaining that you make average money and live an average life. Thats on you

Everyone wants to be a millionaire, no one wants to put in the work.

When did we become a nation that avoids and genuinely discredits the merit of hard work?
post 1619070421 10-11-2020, 02:08 PM
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9-5 M-Th, 9-2 on Fri

1 hour lunches

High degree of work miscing

Don't mind it at all

Just lol @ working more hours than that
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post 1619071941 10-11-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
ok, but here's the thing. again, i think it's different than people think

what is the opposite of free-will? deterministic or determinism?

very simple example without going into things: if life were 100% deterministic that would mean you can't control the outcomes .

so, if you were fat lets say, that means you'd always be fat. you'd never veer away from that because from the onset, at 100% determined, it was always determined that you'd be fat. there would be no difference or fluctuation.

yet, you're on a bodybuilding site where people build their bodies. lose weight, gain weight, etc., etc.

so, while this is not 100% proof of "free-will" what it does introduce is "choice". even though this choice can stem from something by design, there are still more outcomes than pure 100% determinism. which can give theILLUSION(or it could still be real) of free will. or at the very least can lead toward hints of more control. would be interesting to see someone specify the quantity and degree to which they discern "control"
To keep things simple - people change due to causal factors they had no control over. There are certain unique conditions and variables that are met for every perceived choice that actually don't make it a choice.

If you rewind your life, you will never get a different outcome, because of the certain variables and conditions that were present at a given time. All the information that we are bombarded with everyday, unwillingly, we respond to with absolutely no choice.

Read the book I referenced. It will make things very clear. You don't have any control of your genetics, and the way your genetics influence phenotypical elements of your brain that are controlling thought patterns, emotions, intelligence.

The whole premise is for people to stop carrying around guilt and blame, because everything in your life is pretty much out of your control.

Edit: and if you're an atheist/evolutionist free will is an absolute no go at all lol. So don't talk chit as if your will brought you whatever success you've obtained in your life.
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Sounds like you're just whining then.

Edit : Just LOL at the ad hominem at the end. Trust me brah, I know a lot more about this than you do.

Still waiting on how you figure you'd lose the money you make over the next three years in addition to the tuition.
Say you took out loans at 200k, at 6% interest, and you are making minimum payments on that debt, because of all your other bills.

My buddy took out that much debt, and without being able to restructure his payments the state wanted $2,500 a month.

Without him those type of payments per month that debt is never going to be paid off. He pretty much mortgaged a home for something with the net value of zero.

Trying putting 2k plus on your student loans, while paying a mortgage, and all your other bills on 60k a year.

And lol @ thinking your just going to rocket to six figures in 3 years, and even six figures isn't going to save you with those expenses.
"I am a rational animal who occupies the intermediary position between angel and beast"

"The upper class is afforded their position by the collective burden the underclass must carry for them"


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post 1619076151 10-11-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
To keep things simple - people change due to causal factors they had no control over. There are certain unique conditions and variables that are met for every perceived choice that actually don't make it a choice.

If you rewind your life, you will never get a different outcome, because of the certain variables and conditions that were present at a given time. All the information that we are bombarded with everyday, unwillingly, we respond to with absolutely no choice.

Read the book I referenced. It will make things very clear. You don't have any control of your genetics, and the way your genetics influence phenotypical elements of your brain that are controlling thought patterns, emotions, intelligence.

The whole premise is for people to stop carrying around guilt and blame, because everything in your life is pretty much out of your control.

Edit: and if you're an atheist/evolutionist free will is an absolute no go at all lol. So don't talk chit as if your will brought you whatever success you've obtained in your life.
again, i think it boils down to how you define control (and other things). to keep this simple.

lets say you're a dog. and as a dog you're allowed 10 choices.

some people use "free will" to mean there are never ending possibilities - you only have to make the choice.

but others will say "that's not free will" because even though you were presented with 10 choices you're still a dog and bound by the laws of being a dog

so, similarly, as you've done here i feel you've put limits on things because they help with your definition, but once again they really don't illustrate the degree of choice you have

for instance, i am aware of studies that show the mind is made up already before people know it. the studies that showed a light and saw that certain brain regions lit up before they were cognizantly aware, so it seemed the brain made the choice before they were aware.

BUT i still look at that as subconscious. i fully believe the subconscious can take control of things. similar to an engine, it takes a while to get up to speed and it wants to stay that way. however, that doesn't speak toward it's ability to veer or change. so, i think it's plausible that someone can be stuck in a certain scenario and specific point in time (due to the subconscious) but once again it doesn't speak toward it's malleability or ability to change.

how would you say neuroplasticity - Neuroplasticity, also known as neural plasticity, or brain plasticity, is the ability of neural networks in the brain to change through growth and reorganization. These changes range from individual neurons making new connections, to systematic adjustments like cortical remapping - is possible alongside determinism?
post 1619077201 10-11-2020, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
again, i think it boils down to how you define control (and other things). to keep this simple.

lets say you're a dog. and as a dog you're allowed 10 choices.

some people use "free will" to mean there are never ending possibilities - you only have to make the choice.

but others will say "that's not free will" because even though you were presented with 10 choices you're still a dog and bound by the laws of being a dog

so, similarly, as you've done here i feel you've put limits on things because they help with your definition, but once again they really don't illustrate the degree of choice you have

for instance, i am aware of studies that show the mind is made up already before people know it. the studies that showed a light and saw that certain brain regions lit up before they were cognizantly aware, so it seemed the brain made the choice before they were aware.

BUT i still look at that as subconscious. i fully believe the subconscious can take control of things. similar to an engine, it takes a while to get up to speed and it wants to stay that way. however, that doesn't speak toward it's ability to veer or change. so, i think it's plausible that someone can be stuck in a certain scenario and specific point in time (due to the subconscious) but once again it doesn't speak toward it's malleability or ability to change.

how would you say neuroplasticity - Neuroplasticity, also known as neural plasticity, or brain plasticity, is the ability of neural networks in the brain to change through growth and reorganization. These changes range from individual neurons making new connections, to systematic adjustments like cortical remapping - is possible alongside determinism?
in regards to your last point - do you think these changes are due to causal events, or environmental changes, or some type of real genuine choice?

Maybe I am just not articulating myself correctly, but the clockwork universe just seems to make more sense to my current understanding. I struggled with it, because if we aren't making our own choices doesn't that seem to be kind of dehumanizing and nihilistic?

You bring up good points. The book I read addressed them, but it's been over a year that I've read it, and a lot of the information escaped me. Maybe I'll revisit it sometime.

The ideas were extremely disturbing to me, and really changed my view on reality lol.
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post 1619078051 10-11-2020, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
in regards to your last point - do you think these changes are due to causal events, or environmental changes, or some type of real genuine choice?
that's a tough question, cause it's getting down to the real nitty gritty of things we don't know. i would say all of those things contribute

however, i feel i have traveled the vicissitudes of life enough so i feel shortsighted calling the world "deterministic"
Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
I struggled with it, because if we aren't making our own choices doesn't that seem to be kind of dehumanizing and nihilistic?
yes, but i think a lot of this is picky, choosy. because as far as im aware they don't 100% know consciousness

again, i think a lot of this differs on how people define things and they can say things that sound trickier than they are (or sound worse or better than it is for that matter)
post 1619078641 10-11-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
that's a tough question, cause it's getting down to the real nitty gritty of things we don't know. i would say all of those things contribute

however, i feel i have traveled the vicissitudes of life enough so i feel shortsighted calling the world "deterministic"



yes, but i think a lot of this is picky, choosy. because as far as im aware they don't 100% know consciousness

again, i think a lot of this differs on how people define things and they can say things that sound trickier than they are (or sound worse or better than it is for that matter)
What's your take?

Freewill or no?
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post 1619079081 10-11-2020, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
What's your take?

Freewill or no?
i say freewill but not the way people typically think of it

and maybe that goes the same the opposite way: deterministic but not the way people think of it

i guess really easy summation would be: bound by structures and regulations but still presented with choice or an ability to excise control
post 1619079241 10-11-2020, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
i say freewill but not the way people typically think of it

and maybe that goes the same the opposite way: deterministic but not the way people think of it

i guess really easy summation would be: bound by structures and regulations but still presented with choice or an ability to excise control
I'd rep you, but I'm on r/c lol.

Interesting convo.
"I am a rational animal who occupies the intermediary position between angel and beast"

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post 1619079971 10-11-2020, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I would even go further and change that to "as long as you don't live in a poverty chithole", instead of "rich, western country".

I always shake my head at miscerswhining onlineabout their perceived lack of opportunity. Bolded the important part.
LOL was trying to come up with this but it's perfect - the fact that people in this thread have even "access" to the internet makes it more than possible to do whatever you want - cope if you say nothing is really up to you - just say you don't want to work hard or grind to make it lol
post 1619080281 10-11-2020, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted By wave_length⏩
I disagree. How did you come to this conclusion of no free will?
if you were born into the neighbours house next door, you would be a completely different person. Your personality including things like hard working you are determined by your genetics and upbringing both of which you have no control over.
post 1619080751 10-11-2020, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
ok, but here's the thing. again, i think it's different than people think

what is the opposite of free-will? deterministic or determinism?

very simple example without going into things: if life were 100% deterministic that would mean you can't control the outcomes .

so, if you were fat lets say, that means you'd always be fat. you'd never veer away from that because from the onset, at 100% determined, it was always determined that you'd be fat. there would be no difference or fluctuation.

yet, you're on a bodybuilding site where people build their bodies. lose weight, gain weight, etc., etc.

so, while this is not 100% proof of "free-will" what it does introduce is "choice". even though this choice can stem from something by design, there are still more outcomes than pure 100% determinism. which can give theILLUSION(or it could still be real) of free will. or at the very least can lead toward hints of more control. would be interesting to see someone specify the quantity and degree to which they discern "control"
Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
i say freewill but not the way people typically think of it

and maybe that goes the same the opposite way: deterministic but not the way people think of it

i guess really easy summation would be: bound by structures and regulations but still presented with choice or an ability to excise control
If I'm understanding you correctly then I think we are in about the same place on this.

The self, or consciousness:

- is rooted in our physical selves (genetics, biological needs, environmental conditions)

- is shaped by our past experiences, the people we relate to, the culture we live in, etc.

When a choice arises our physical state and environmental conditioning strongly tip the odds towards choosing a response that fits this "preset", and most of the time we run right down the track (habit), but even though it is unlikely (and maybe influenced by new/changed factors) we could choose a different response.

It's the metaphor of the rider and the elephant. Originally it was cast as the elephant being the emotional self and the rider being the logical self, but the elephant can also be the subconscious, the body, the automatic response, while the rider is the considered chosen act.

The elephant is larger and more powerful and has to be trained.
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post 1619081431 10-11-2020, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
If I'm understanding you correctly then I think we are in about the same place on this.

The self, or consciousness:

- is rooted in our physical selves (genetics, biological needs, environmental conditions)

- is shaped by our past experiences, the people we relate to, the culture we live in, etc.

When a choice arises our physical state and environmental conditioning strongly tip the odds towards choosing a response that fits this "preset", and most of the time we run right down the track (habit), but even though it is unlikely (and maybe influenced by new/changed factors) we could choose a different response.

It's the metaphor of the rider and the elephant. Originally it was cast as the elephant being the emotional self and the rider being the logical self, but the elephant can also be the subconscious, the body, the automatic response, while the rider is the considered chosen act.

The elephant is larger and more powerful and has to be trained.
pretty much. im unwilling to label anything consciousness, so id say MAYBE self is consciousness. i understand that "self" is typically what people are speaking of when they say consciousness. think i'd agree with everything else

i totally fuken believe in neuroplasticity and 100% think the subconscious can be rewired or "trained"
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Originally Posted By bfdehewdbyywhn⏩
you could never become an f1 driver cause you weren't born rich. you could never become a pro athlete because of the time/opportunity costs risk that you don't go pro

no time to become a full-time musician, fishing for marlin/yellow fin, or Boxer, etc.


you have to choose from safe careers such as STEM, Business related fields, Nursing, Trades; and work for the next 50 years 40-60 hrs a week


wtfff
And for you OP, you can chase whatever life you want. Really.

You just have to be okay with the cost.

What you describe as a lack of freedom sounds a lot like risk aversion. It's perfectly reasonable, just not quite the same thing.

Sounds a lot like posts here saying "can't get a wife/start a family because..."

When it is really more like:

- can't get a wife that meets my standards
- if I do get a wife it might not last; she might cheat or divorce me

Maybe you find a woman who meets your standards and it works out alright. Or maybe you settle and it works out alright.

Or maybe she is great, or not so great/okay, and it all goes up in flames.

It's a risk.
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post 1619081821 10-11-2020, 04:30 PM
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#54
  1. OPGenesis
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
If I'm understanding you correctly then I think we are in about the same place on this.

The self, or consciousness:

- is rooted in our physical selves (genetics, biological needs, environmental conditions)

- is shaped by our past experiences, the people we relate to, the culture we live in, etc.

When a choice arises our physical state and environmental conditioning strongly tip the odds towards choosing a response that fits this "preset", and most of the time we run right down the track (habit), but even though it is unlikely (and maybe influenced by new/changed factors) we could choose a different response.

It's the metaphor of the rider and the elephant. Originally it was cast as the elephant being the emotional self and the rider being the logical self, but the elephant can also be the subconscious, the body, the automatic response, while the rider is the considered chosen act.

The elephant is larger and more powerful and has to be trained.
What book did you read about the elephant metaphor, bish?

Or was it from an article?

There was something I read about that a couple weeks ago on ZH.

Seems trendy.
"I am a rational animal who occupies the intermediary position between angel and beast"

"The upper class is afforded their position by the collective burden the underclass must carry for them"


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post 1619082071 10-11-2020, 04:32 PM
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#55
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Sounds like you're just whining then.

Edit : Just LOL at the ad hominem at the end. Trust me brah, I know a lot more about this than you do.

Still waiting on how you figure you'd lose the money you make over the next three years in addition to the tuition.
Because I can't be a FT circuit engineer and a 70hr/week T14 law student. If I wanted the latter, I'd have to give up the $100K engineering job. Insinuating that I can do both shows how poor of an understanding you have of both.

I know your natural response is say "just work 110 hours/week, sweetie", but even you know how bad of an argument that is. I've done 90 hours/wk for a year and that one year took off 2 or 3 more off my life.

That's also assuming I could quit my current job and findanother$100K circuit engineering job closer to a T14 school, since there currently none within 500 miles of me.
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post 1619082221 10-11-2020, 04:34 PM
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#56
  1. orangetide
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Originally Posted By wave_length⏩
You don't need rich parents, that's a myth. Most millionaires are self made. And you can excel in any field to get rich and escape 9 to 5.
Bullchit.

What they never tell you is they have family or extended family that help them out/ trusts.

If you look at most profesdional musicians (orchestra, symphonies, etc) most hsve family in music, or had trusts grom geandpa and grandma to practice all day.


Then you have the poor/immigrants that get special programs, grants and scholarships for being poor/1st gen college/ non-white/immigrant.

Look at govenors/mayors/senators/judges, and youll find most have had several members in the same positions.





White and middle class are destined to say lower middle or middle class cuz marxists have convinced everyone they have extensive "privilige" and get passed over for opportunities left and right.
post 1619084411 10-11-2020, 04:54 PM
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#57
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Originally Posted By orangetide⏩
Bullchit.

What they never tell you is they have family or extended family that help them out/ trusts.

If you look at most profesdional musicians (orchestra, symphonies, etc) most hsve family in music, or had trusts grom geandpa and grandma to practice all day.
The arts are brutal, man. There's only a home to make a living for the top <5%, and the people whose family let them sit home and practice practice practice are going to have such a huge advantage to take those slim pickings of work.

As I told my brother the other day, thank God I've got some talent for engineering instead of something like painting. There's a home in the world for a mediocre engineer in this world. There isnohome for a mediocre artist.
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post 1619098531 10-11-2020, 07:28 PM
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#58
  1. katya422
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Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
What book did you read about the elephant metaphor, bish?

Or was it from an article?

There was something I read about that a couple weeks ago on ZH.

Seems trendy.
I encountered the metaphor in this book a few years ago. I don't think it spoke specifically to free will, just the idea that we have limited control. It was just one chapter.

https://www.goodreads.com/id/book/sh...ess_Hypothesis
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post 1619099761 10-11-2020, 07:44 PM
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#59
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Hey OP aware me on how I’m supposed to make money deep sea fishing last time I checked 90% of commercial fishers are poor and can barely afford rent in the trailer park and constantly being screwed over by fish and game
post 1619100271 10-11-2020, 07:49 PM
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#60
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Imagine living in a time of human history of unprecedented conveniences and quality of life yet still qq'ing about it. Take solace in the fact that you are not dead by the time you are 20 years old dying from an infection because you cut your foot out on a hunt, or living under some tyrant like Ivan the Terrible
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