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The best study on mask use for covid is not being published deliberately
10-19-2020, 09:35 AM
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#31
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if you can smell a fart through a mask you can get the sweet n sour sniffles
10-19-2020, 09:37 AM
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#32
- JoshSP1985
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Originally Posted By Azure84⏩
All add my anecdote to this. Coworker just found out the girl he escorted at a wedding was positive and he was not infected. They locked arms unmasked and walked in stride multiple times and sat in close proximity for hours.This is a faulty assumption as the viral load doesn't say anything about if you transmit the virus or not. If you go by actual contact tracing studies, instead of just assuming viral load means you will transmit the virus, they will show you that asymptomatic people do NOT transmit covid-19 in any meaningful way. (Like this study with 1 transmission in 305 cases)
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2671
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-2671
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*CCW*
10-19-2020, 09:44 AM
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#33
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Originally Posted By PenorBrahNoHomo⏩
These are good questions. (srs)If a simple cloth mask is effective in one direction, why would it not be in the other?
Also, if asymptomatic carriers are far less infectious than the symptomatic (they are), and the symptomatic should self-isolate, then why would we all be encouraged to wear them?
How could you design a study to test their effectiveness in preventing spread by the infected? You would have to send the known infected out and somehow determine how many they infected. This is obviously not going to happen. Should we just assume it is true that they help despite no evidence or even evidence to the contrary?
Also, if asymptomatic carriers are far less infectious than the symptomatic (they are), and the symptomatic should self-isolate, then why would we all be encouraged to wear them?
How could you design a study to test their effectiveness in preventing spread by the infected? You would have to send the known infected out and somehow determine how many they infected. This is obviously not going to happen. Should we just assume it is true that they help despite no evidence or even evidence to the contrary?
Simple cloth masks aren't going to be 100% effective. I think we can all agree on that. The better the mask (e.g. N95 > simple cloth mask), the better the filtration.
As far as directionality goes, I'll go with a graphic and imperfect analogy: imagine you're shopping and a rando naked guy runs into the store and is about to rip a nasty wet fart. Would you prefer that he has some sort of a diaper (even a cloth diaper) or would you prefer having a cloth mask on for the event, or would you prefer both? Again, I know, it's an imperfect analogy, but I'm trying to show a point that with all fart exit and entry points covered, you reduce the smells to some degree. Better diapers, better masks, and you get better results.
All people are encouraged to wear masks because even though asymptomatic/presymptomatic carriers are less infectious than the symptomatic, they still have potential to transmit the virus. The strategy also factors in that not all people will follow directions anyway.
You're right that such a study as you described would never be performed as a prospective trial as it is unethical and no IRB would touch it. We do have prospective epidemiological studies (e.g.https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/su...aff.2020.00818) that suggest that community masking mandates are associated with declining COVID-19 infection rates, but as an epidemiological study, many variables cannot be controlled for such as enforcement of such mandates. However, I'd argue that makes the data more pragmatic.
أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمد رسول الله
10-19-2020, 09:48 AM
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#34
- Azure84
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Originally Posted By bb09⏩
It will reduce droplets, yes. Does that matter when the main source of infection is aerosols in an indoor setting? Probably not.https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/As far as I'm aware, when we speak, we emit respiratory droplets and aerosols. What evidence there is indicates that the masks significantly reduce the extent to which those droplets/aerosols are emitted into the surrounding air (which is why you were probably brought up to put your hand over your mouth when you sneeze). I think there's emerging evidence (no idea how strong it is) that masks may help prevent you from contract C-19 to some extent, but with less-than-perfect coverage of your mouth and nose, there's no guarantee you won't pick it up if there's already a load of droplets/aerosols coming your way from the guy who's just sneezed at you.
There is increasing evidence that the SARS-2 coronavirus is transmitted, at least in indoor settings, not only by droplets but also by smaller aerosols. However, due to their large pore size and poor fit, cloth masks cannot filter out aerosols (see video analysis below): over 90% of aerosols penetrate or bypass the mask and fill a medium-sized room within minutes.
There are also 10 studies in the above link showing facemasks are NOT effective in a general public. It is NOT an anti-covid site though, and here is the conclusion they draw:Conclusion
Cloth face masks in the general population might be effective, at least in some circumstances, but there is currently little to no evidence supporting this proposition. If the SARS-2 virus is indeed transmitted via indoor aerosols, cloth masks are unlikely to be protective. Health authorities should therefore not assume or suggest that cloth face masks will reduce the rate or risk of infection.
Cloth face masks in the general population might be effective, at least in some circumstances, but there is currently little to no evidence supporting this proposition. If the SARS-2 virus is indeed transmitted via indoor aerosols, cloth masks are unlikely to be protective. Health authorities should therefore not assume or suggest that cloth face masks will reduce the rate or risk of infection.
10-19-2020, 10:18 AM
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#35
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Originally Posted By JoshSP1985⏩
Interesting.All add my anecdote to this. Coworker just found out the girl he escorted at a wedding was positive and he was not infected. They locked arms unmasked and walked in stride multiple times and sat in close proximity for hours.
I'll add an anecdote... buddy had a co-worker test positive. They required everyone be tested. He blew it off and went golfing. Got a call from the lab saying he tested positive. Never even showed up.
So perhaps she was one of those false positive cases to inflate the metrics. And you can't convince me this isn't happening.
One more anecdote... my 93 year old grandmother caught it back in April. Very healthy for her age... was hospitalized out of caution. Never had more than a mild fever, beat it in two weeks.
The fact of the mater is the rona is just plowing through those who are already in horrible shape. Survival rate of 99% up to 80 years old and then it's 94%. The sweet n sour sniffles... so deadly you have to go and find out if you have it.
10-19-2020, 10:20 AM
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#36
10-19-2020, 10:27 AM
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#37
Originally Posted By Doober4⏩
This coronavirus is very smart, it knows it cannot penetrate masks, the other cold viruses are stupid and penetrate masks.I wear a mask like a good boy and I currently have a cold, how does this happen?
10-19-2020, 10:31 AM
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#38
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Originally Posted By JoshSP1985⏩
My 19 yo was asymptomatic and didn't give it to any of us.All add my anecdote to this. Coworker just found out the girl he escorted at a wedding was positive and he was not infected. They locked arms unmasked and walked in stride multiple times and sat in close proximity for hours.
10-19-2020, 10:35 AM
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#39
Originally Posted By JoshSP1985⏩
Clearly the virus knew it was a special time for her and decided to spare her family.All add my anecdote to this. Coworker just found out the girl he escorted at a wedding was positive and he was not infected. They locked arms unmasked and walked in stride multiple times and sat in close proximity for hours.
10-19-2020, 10:48 AM
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#40
I don't know what the study says but here's my take. Coronavirus can survive on aerosol spit put into the air for some amount of time, maybe a few hours. A loose fitting cloth mask will filter out maybe 50-80%. A N95 about 95%. N99 about 99% and N or P100 99.97. That's of a certain size particle that the mask filters but we can assume that the virus will be stopped by it. The virus is smaller than the 2.5micrometers size the N-xxx system rates to but that'll stop the spit droplettes or dust that the virus is usually carried by. Cloth and even n95 aren't doing all that much, you'll still probably get it if you go into a cloud of coughed up virus aerosols.
The loose fitting cloth masks do help keep down how much spit people emanate. A virus where initial virus exposure and load matter, it does help to lessen the exposure. Its like having less ACE2 expression. So it does help but is it worth the cost?
My personal opinion is if people don't want to get the virus to wear a N100 and put the responsibility on the people who have special considerations to look out for themselves. It would help to put a 2nd cloth mask over the vent on a P100 mask but that's more of a courtesy to others. Would be nice if everyone did but clearly we are in a country where a great % of people don't want to wear a mask. Isolate and protect the weak. If people want to wear a mask a quality 3M 7500 series with a nice fitting face gasket (think cpap) w/n or p100 is minimum to prevent or reduce exposure. What's going on now with mandates and people sloppily just abiding because they have to isn't really effective and causing a lot of problems.
The loose fitting cloth masks do help keep down how much spit people emanate. A virus where initial virus exposure and load matter, it does help to lessen the exposure. Its like having less ACE2 expression. So it does help but is it worth the cost?
My personal opinion is if people don't want to get the virus to wear a N100 and put the responsibility on the people who have special considerations to look out for themselves. It would help to put a 2nd cloth mask over the vent on a P100 mask but that's more of a courtesy to others. Would be nice if everyone did but clearly we are in a country where a great % of people don't want to wear a mask. Isolate and protect the weak. If people want to wear a mask a quality 3M 7500 series with a nice fitting face gasket (think cpap) w/n or p100 is minimum to prevent or reduce exposure. What's going on now with mandates and people sloppily just abiding because they have to isn't really effective and causing a lot of problems.
10-19-2020, 10:53 AM
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#41
Originally Posted By rootcon⏩
People don't even know how to put on masks properly. Cloth masks probably do nothing at best.I don't know what the study says but here's my take. Coronavirus can survive on aerosol spit put into the air for some amount of time, maybe a few hours. A loose fitting cloth mask will filter out maybe 50-80%. A N95 about 95%. N99 about 99% and N or P100 99.97. That's of a certain size particle that the mask filters but we can assume that the virus will be stopped by it. The virus is smaller than the 2.5micrometers size the N-xxx system rates to but that'll stop the spit droplettes or dust that the virus is usually carried by. Cloth and even n95 aren't doing all that much, you'll still probably get it if you go into a cloud of coughed up virus aerosols.
The loose fitting cloth masks do help keep down how much spit people emanate. A virus where initial virus exposure and load matter, it does help to lessen the exposure. Its like having less ACE2 expression. So it does help but is it worth the cost?
My personal opinion is if people don't want to get the virus to wear a N100 and put the responsibility on the people who have special considerations to look out for themselves. It would help to put a 2nd cloth mask over the vent on a P100 mask but that's more of a courtesy to others. Would be nice if everyone did but clearly we are in a country where a great % of people don't want to wear a mask. Isolate and protect the weak. If people want to wear a mask a quality 3M 7500 series with a nice fitting face gasket (think cpap) w/n or p100 is minimum to prevent or reduce exposure. What's going on now with mandates and people sloppily just abiding because they have to isn't really effective and causing a lot of problems.
The loose fitting cloth masks do help keep down how much spit people emanate. A virus where initial virus exposure and load matter, it does help to lessen the exposure. Its like having less ACE2 expression. So it does help but is it worth the cost?
My personal opinion is if people don't want to get the virus to wear a N100 and put the responsibility on the people who have special considerations to look out for themselves. It would help to put a 2nd cloth mask over the vent on a P100 mask but that's more of a courtesy to others. Would be nice if everyone did but clearly we are in a country where a great % of people don't want to wear a mask. Isolate and protect the weak. If people want to wear a mask a quality 3M 7500 series with a nice fitting face gasket (think cpap) w/n or p100 is minimum to prevent or reduce exposure. What's going on now with mandates and people sloppily just abiding because they have to isn't really effective and causing a lot of problems.
+1 though for knowing that other masks besides N95 exist.
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