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I utterly Destroy the abortion argument in 30 seconds. Isn't even a response.
I utterly Destroy the abortion argument in 30 seconds. Isn't even a response.
07-08-2021, 06:20 AM
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#31
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Originally Posted By GreatOldOne⏩
I encountered and dealt with a lot of hylemorphism when I was writing my Masters thesis (if you want to assume this is the theory of the soul under contention, which I know a lot of fundamental religious types don't have the slightest clue about and would assume a far more crude notion.)I have heard in a religious context from my upbringing that this ensoulment happens at the first drawing of breath, as supposedly we are all born in a state of sin drawing the same breath as Adam and Eve. That is, the Lord blew the breath of Life into the face Adam and at that point he was a living soul, and as descendents we share the same breath.
Genesis 2:7
And LORD JEHOVAH God formed Adam of the dust from the soil, and breathed into his face the breath of life, and Adam was a living soul.
...the parts about "knowing you before you were born" in my tradition was related to predestination, and the existence of a real grand design (God's plan) for the world.
Genesis 2:7
And LORD JEHOVAH God formed Adam of the dust from the soil, and breathed into his face the breath of life, and Adam was a living soul.
...the parts about "knowing you before you were born" in my tradition was related to predestination, and the existence of a real grand design (God's plan) for the world.
So, IMO, that is consistent with the idea of conception as the formation of a genetically unique individual; or the conjunction of matter & form to make a new individual human.
When you understand formal cause as indispensable to biology not only do you do away with the too narrow notions of mechanistic cause but can clear up a lot of controversies in philosophy of biology as well; for now we understand from conception there is always a genetically unique individual teleologically unfolding according to the logic of its formal cause. Destroys the stupid "clump of cells" argument, IMO.
Back off, Warchild.
Seriously.
07-08-2021, 06:30 AM
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#32
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Bible versus amongst nonbelievers and seak believers will not work
Originally Posted By Smegmalion⏩
These.Please don’t ever try and use these arguments in real life, unless you are trying to convince a pro-abortion Christian.
I'm a Christian and agree with you, but it's circular logic. This is like trying to defend creationism by quoting Genesis or the crucifixion by quoting Matthew.
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07-08-2021, 06:39 AM
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#33
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
Not so much, I think. There's no subject of experiences at conception. There's therefore no "I" to become subject of a crime.I encountered and dealt with a lot of hylemorphism when I was writing my Masters thesis (if you want to assume this is the theory of the soul under contention, which I know a lot of fundamental religious types don't have the slightest clue about and would assume a far more crude notion.)
So, IMO, that is consistent with the idea of conception as the formation of a genetically unique individual; or the conjunction of matter & form to make a new individual human.
When you understand formal cause as indispensable to biology not only do you do away with the too narrow notions of mechanistic cause but can clear up a lot of controversies in philosophy of biology as well; for now we understand from conception there is always a genetically unique individual teleologically unfolding according to the logic of its formal cause. Destroys the stupid "clump of cells" argument, IMO.
So, IMO, that is consistent with the idea of conception as the formation of a genetically unique individual; or the conjunction of matter & form to make a new individual human.
When you understand formal cause as indispensable to biology not only do you do away with the too narrow notions of mechanistic cause but can clear up a lot of controversies in philosophy of biology as well; for now we understand from conception there is always a genetically unique individual teleologically unfolding according to the logic of its formal cause. Destroys the stupid "clump of cells" argument, IMO.
...
The coma example highlights the need of a personal history to avoid the acceptability of killing people who are unconscious.
07-08-2021, 06:46 AM
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#34
The rules of God and the teachings of Christ aren’t arbitrary. They create good outcomes. Instead of focusing on whether God exists and whether Christ was our savior, look at the outcomes of those who follow the word in their actions. Christ teaches to do the greatest good possible while avoiding punishment from the Father.
This is important, because when we look at policies of government and human action, you suddenly realize just how much reality there is in scripture. Scripture is basically setting “rules” for how to act and what to expect from others. When societies ignore those rules, and look to government instead, they begin to become corrupt. When man creates arbitrary laws, it doesn’t compel him, but instead it can influence him on to a negative path.
For instance, the statistics we see from 1940 to 1990 after the socialist policies of the welfare state, which largely effected one group. Compelled by God, the way of Christ, vs influence by man.
We saw major decreases in unplanned pregnancy in Texas after several planning parenthood’s were defunded and they were forced to shut their doors.
A society influenced and corrupted by government/socialism loses its moral yard stick. It’s like the spoiled child that didn’t learn anything because the child didn’t have to deal with consequences of bad decisions. That’s why God is referred to as the Father/King. He brings order and punishment. Low standards brings about immoral behavior. We see that when standards are lowered in anything, especially for specific groups. They become less moral; abortion rates go up, crime goes up… snd the people pushing it are therefore immoral.
Want abortion to decrease? Hold people accountable. Want human life to be valued? Hold people accountable
This is important, because when we look at policies of government and human action, you suddenly realize just how much reality there is in scripture. Scripture is basically setting “rules” for how to act and what to expect from others. When societies ignore those rules, and look to government instead, they begin to become corrupt. When man creates arbitrary laws, it doesn’t compel him, but instead it can influence him on to a negative path.
For instance, the statistics we see from 1940 to 1990 after the socialist policies of the welfare state, which largely effected one group. Compelled by God, the way of Christ, vs influence by man.
We saw major decreases in unplanned pregnancy in Texas after several planning parenthood’s were defunded and they were forced to shut their doors.
A society influenced and corrupted by government/socialism loses its moral yard stick. It’s like the spoiled child that didn’t learn anything because the child didn’t have to deal with consequences of bad decisions. That’s why God is referred to as the Father/King. He brings order and punishment. Low standards brings about immoral behavior. We see that when standards are lowered in anything, especially for specific groups. They become less moral; abortion rates go up, crime goes up… snd the people pushing it are therefore immoral.
Want abortion to decrease? Hold people accountable. Want human life to be valued? Hold people accountable
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
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07-08-2021, 06:47 AM
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#35
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Another line of thought. In my view, should you be able to determine that a supposed person is a p-zombie (phenomenal zombie, never having experiences), there should be no moral restrictions on their dispatching.
There's just no way, even in principle, you could determine that.
...
Another way of thinking about this...persons have a personal history. A personal history is composed of events and experiences. A personal history lacking entirely of experiences would describe a p-zombie.
A fetus is a p-zombie until a certain level of development provides them with experiences, enabling a full personal history.
There's just no way, even in principle, you could determine that.
...
Another way of thinking about this...persons have a personal history. A personal history is composed of events and experiences. A personal history lacking entirely of experiences would describe a p-zombie.
A fetus is a p-zombie until a certain level of development provides them with experiences, enabling a full personal history.
07-08-2021, 07:15 AM
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#36
07-08-2021, 07:43 AM
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#37
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Originally Posted By kingmanaverage⏩
Exactly.How is taking a random Bible quote "destroying" the abortion argument? Derp
* Destroying an argument
* Using fairy tales about a magic wizard in the sky as proof
Pick one.
07-08-2021, 07:51 AM
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#38
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Let’s just stop you thereThe rules of God and the teachings of Christ aren’t arbitrary. They create good outcomes. P
There are numerous examples of rules in the bible that just do not hold sway in modern life
And if that is your true belief, than you can’t pick and choose
So no football Saturday
No mixed cloth
Don’t eat fat or blood - we all vegan now?
07-08-2021, 07:52 AM
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#39
07-08-2021, 08:28 AM
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#40
Originally Posted By Rabbitjb⏩
ITT we ignore the big picture to make straw men.Let’s just stop you there
There are numerous examples of rules in the bible that just do not hold sway in modern life
And if that is your true belief, than you can’t pick and choose
So no football Saturday
No mixed cloth
Don’t eat fat or blood - we all vegan now?
There are numerous examples of rules in the bible that just do not hold sway in modern life
And if that is your true belief, than you can’t pick and choose
So no football Saturday
No mixed cloth
Don’t eat fat or blood - we all vegan now?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
07-08-2021, 09:15 AM
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#41
07-08-2021, 09:24 AM
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#42
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How do we determine when a human is no longer alive? When brain activity in the brain ceases? Then why can't we use that to determine when a human BEGINS to be alive? At the first sign of electrical activity in the brain of an unborn human it should be considered a living person.
07-08-2021, 09:35 AM
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#43
Originally Posted By Rabbitjb⏩
Dont drink blood is a bad rule to follow? Who drinks blood?The rules aren’t arbitrary
Lmao I was just lmao
Lmao I was just lmao
Dont eat lard and excessive fat? Sounds like gluttony to me.
Don't sit on your ass and watch other people exercise?
"Mixing cloth", as you say it, is an old rule. Let me explain it to you for someone that doesnt know history; dont mix high quality threads with low quality threads an attempt to make something "better" or to pass it off as high quality to consumers. Today, we use modern methods that can weave cheaper threads in to something stronger and higher quality than they could back then. In that same passage, it's also taught not to mix seeds in your pasture, which is something still followed. In one, it's about ethics and quality of work, in the other, it's about how to work the land and produce properly. You can learn these things in agricultural books and economics as well. Mixing threads was always a bad idea, as they would fall apart easier n many cases too
So either you're terribly stupid, or trying to be a clever troll.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
07-08-2021, 09:38 AM
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#44
Originally Posted By jimbone21⏩
Well actually that part is a valid debate, because it isn’t until corticol folding commences that any form or meaningful electrical activity can start to occur foreshadowing the commencement of the development of any form of conscious or unconscious thought or autonomic controlHow do we determine when a human is no longer alive? When brain activity in the brain ceases? Then why can't we use that to determine when a human BEGINS to be alive? At the first sign of electrical activity in the brain of an unborn human it should be considered a living person.
In fact the very way that the cortex folds is important. If abnormal there are strong associations with severe neurological conditions, some of which are not conducive to life folded shape of the human brain allows the cerebral cortex
07-08-2021, 09:57 AM
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#45
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Originally Posted By bdaswat⏩
So to be clear, in your opinion, a woman who is the victim of rape must carry the rapist’s baby to term?The debate is over, and it was over before it started.
"BEFORE I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;
“I knew you BEFORE I formed you in your mother’s womb.
Jeremiah 1:5
Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance - Psalm 139:16
Even as he chose us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world...Ephesians 1:4 ESV
But when he who had set me apart BEFORE I was born, - Galatians 1:15 ESV
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me -Psalm 139:15-16
(there's over 100 verseshttps://www.openbible.info/topics/go...e_we_were_born).
So as I was researching this, I said wait a minute... there isn't any debate about "what day an embryo is "x" or what trimester is "y"... Day ONE is the standard. That's a complete fallacy and ignorant understanding of how we are formed. Mind = Blown.
So before we were even conceived, we EXISTED. Again, this is like doctrinal level Christianity, and I'm not sure anyone will understand what I'm talking about unless you have a complete understanding of the Bible (in general). Again, if even one person knows what I'm talking about, i'm referring to ecclesiastical studies about humans existing in heaven until called down to our bodies, aka being born. Pretty fascinating stuff. Then if you really want to nerd out, SCIENCE and technology goes further and further down this path with each advancement in the medical field if any of you guys study that. (would like to dive into some of that in this thread.)
"BEFORE I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;
“I knew you BEFORE I formed you in your mother’s womb.
Jeremiah 1:5
Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance - Psalm 139:16
Even as he chose us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world...Ephesians 1:4 ESV
But when he who had set me apart BEFORE I was born, - Galatians 1:15 ESV
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me -Psalm 139:15-16
(there's over 100 verseshttps://www.openbible.info/topics/go...e_we_were_born).
So as I was researching this, I said wait a minute... there isn't any debate about "what day an embryo is "x" or what trimester is "y"... Day ONE is the standard. That's a complete fallacy and ignorant understanding of how we are formed. Mind = Blown.
So before we were even conceived, we EXISTED. Again, this is like doctrinal level Christianity, and I'm not sure anyone will understand what I'm talking about unless you have a complete understanding of the Bible (in general). Again, if even one person knows what I'm talking about, i'm referring to ecclesiastical studies about humans existing in heaven until called down to our bodies, aka being born. Pretty fascinating stuff. Then if you really want to nerd out, SCIENCE and technology goes further and further down this path with each advancement in the medical field if any of you guys study that. (would like to dive into some of that in this thread.)
All those failures of the blastocyst to implant...mass, unnecessary death, in a terribly designed world by God? Imagine all these hoards and hoards of people up in heaven somewhere, existing since Day 1, whatever that means (nearly 14 billion years, the age of the universe?), waiting in reserve to finally come down to.....not implant.
You were created since day 1 (again.:..beginning of the universe billions of years ago?), when humans biologically weren’t even a thing until the most recent sliver of evolutionary time in history. So many questions arise. What exactly was “up there”- shouldn’t be a human, they didn’t exist for eons until now. Some kind of mysterious soul? Are all the animals’ souls up there waiting, or just us? The line gets quite blurry when you go back far enough, when our ancestors were primitive primates or fish. There isn’t a point that’s like “a-ha, at this point this entity was here from day 1”. I guess all those fish “souls” were there from day 1 as well. Not to mention the trillions and trillions of prokaryotes that were our ancestors from billions of years ago.
Nah. None of this has meaning. It is words taken from a book written a couple thousand years ago. Not based in evidence. Not the way to proceed if the task is to find out how the universe works.
The last paragraph in your post is funny. As if this were some kind of “deep” or “nerdy” consideration (nothing deep whatsoever in any of this). When in reality you seem to just be ripping typical old hat anti-abortion quotes from the Bible from some source. Relativity and quantum mechanics are pretty deep. So is, perhaps, modern axiomatic set theory and the findings of Cantor and Gödel. Reading and interpreting a passage in a thousands year old text is not deep. And you bring up science and medicine for some reason- perhaps to make the nonsense of the OP appear all scientific or something (it is nothing of the sort).
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07-08-2021, 10:00 AM
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#46
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Originally Posted By Rabbitjb⏩
Do you take all books out of context or just the ones you don't like?Let’s just stop you there
There are numerous examples of rules in the bible that just do not hold sway in modern life
And if that is your true belief, than you can’t pick and choose
So no football Saturday
No mixed cloth
Don’t eat fat or blood - we all vegan now?
There are numerous examples of rules in the bible that just do not hold sway in modern life
And if that is your true belief, than you can’t pick and choose
So no football Saturday
No mixed cloth
Don’t eat fat or blood - we all vegan now?
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07-08-2021, 10:03 AM
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#47
07-08-2021, 10:22 AM
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#48
Originally Posted By PTzFree⏩
People usually miss the big picture when they want to be right. The most important parts are the processes and their outcomes, compared to other processes and outcomes. The reality of the stories, the realities of the outcomes, not the fantasies they imagine in their heads with no relevant comparison of reality. Biblical scripture has great relative meaning in reality.Do you take all books out of context or just the ones you don't like?
Notice he won’t touch my reply to him. Notice most people avoid my factual posts or sling insults, straw men, and projections when they do. That tells you something.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
07-08-2021, 10:23 AM
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#49
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Originally Posted By jimbone21⏩
Being alive is a little arbitrary. It's strange to consider, but it may be a gradient from unconscious to conscious and dead to alive.How do we determine when a human is no longer alive? When brain activity in the brain ceases? Then why can't we use that to determine when a human BEGINS to be alive? At the first sign of electrical activity in the brain of an unborn human it should be considered a living person.
We have an idea of being clinically dead, but that is based on the perception of other beings. That involves blood flow and breathing, which also doesn't line up with the conception people so they don't like it.
...that also misses the idea that you could have experiences and be clinically dead.
07-08-2021, 10:30 AM
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#50
Again folks, while you’re arguing over who is alive and who isn’t, the abortion rate is ever increasing as the result of society’s values and government interference. Regardless of the philosophical argument, is it not immoral to continue with policies that degrade values, lower standards, and make politicians more powerful? why are we funding abortion clinics? If people believe that government should stay out of it, then why are we paying taxes to keep abortion clinics open? When abortion clinics are closed, unplanned teen pregnancies go down. Is that not something we went? Or do we ignore this in order to get our politicians of choice more power? This is immoral in itself
The people who are arguing that abortion is fine are simultaneously influencing the numbers to go up. First they pushed birth control, which told teens that sex was casual. They taught it in school which made made it social. Then they support abortion which told society they don’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions. Now we have gay and trans who have their entire identities based around their sexuality, which is the result of making sex social, casual, and political
There’s a whole process here, as I keep pointing out. People are missing the forest for the trees and not realizing that there’s so many immoral and unethical issues about this
The people who are arguing that abortion is fine are simultaneously influencing the numbers to go up. First they pushed birth control, which told teens that sex was casual. They taught it in school which made made it social. Then they support abortion which told society they don’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions. Now we have gay and trans who have their entire identities based around their sexuality, which is the result of making sex social, casual, and political
There’s a whole process here, as I keep pointing out. People are missing the forest for the trees and not realizing that there’s so many immoral and unethical issues about this
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
07-08-2021, 10:35 AM
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#51
Compulsory vasectomies (which are reversible) is the best and only cure for unwanted pregnancies
You quote a fiction piece and find truth in it. I’m delighted you find comfort
Then you try to make others live by it. You know where you can stick that sanctimonious drivel
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
You make no sense. This post is nonsensical. Your others are merely evangelismPeople usually miss the big picture when they want to be right. The most important parts are the processes and their outcomes, compared to other processes and outcomes. The reality of the stories, the realities of the outcomes, not the fantasies they imagine in their heads with no relevant comparison of reality. Biblical scripture has great relative meaning in reality.
Notice he won’t touch my reply to him. Notice most people avoid my factual posts or sling insults, straw men, and projections when they do. That tells you something.
Notice he won’t touch my reply to him. Notice most people avoid my factual posts or sling insults, straw men, and projections when they do. That tells you something.
You quote a fiction piece and find truth in it. I’m delighted you find comfort
Then you try to make others live by it. You know where you can stick that sanctimonious drivel
07-08-2021, 10:47 AM
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#52
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Originally Posted By bdaswat⏩
Whose going to raise these kids that you are saving from abortion? Already a lot of **** parents who don’t care for their kids. Then they grow up Democrats, do you really want more?The debate is over, and it was over before it started.
"BEFORE I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;
“I knew you BEFORE I formed you in your mother’s womb.
Jeremiah 1:5
Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance - Psalm 139:16
Even as he chose us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world...Ephesians 1:4 ESV
But when he who had set me apart BEFORE I was born, - Galatians 1:15 ESV
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me -Psalm 139:15-16
(there's over 100 verseshttps://www.openbible.info/topics/go...e_we_were_born).
So as I was researching this, I said wait a minute... there isn't any debate about "what day an embryo is "x" or what trimester is "y"... Day ONE is the standard. That's a complete fallacy and ignorant understanding of how we are formed. Mind = Blown.
So before we were even conceived, we EXISTED. Again, this is like doctrinal level Christianity, and I'm not sure anyone will understand what I'm talking about unless you have a complete understanding of the Bible (in general). Again, if even one person knows what I'm talking about, i'm referring to ecclesiastical studies about humans existing in heaven until called down to our bodies, aka being born. Pretty fascinating stuff. Then if you really want to nerd out, SCIENCE and technology goes further and further down this path with each advancement in the medical field if any of you guys study that. (would like to dive into some of that in this thread.)
"BEFORE I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;
“I knew you BEFORE I formed you in your mother’s womb.
Jeremiah 1:5
Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance - Psalm 139:16
Even as he chose us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world...Ephesians 1:4 ESV
But when he who had set me apart BEFORE I was born, - Galatians 1:15 ESV
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my UNFORMED substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me -Psalm 139:15-16
(there's over 100 verseshttps://www.openbible.info/topics/go...e_we_were_born).
So as I was researching this, I said wait a minute... there isn't any debate about "what day an embryo is "x" or what trimester is "y"... Day ONE is the standard. That's a complete fallacy and ignorant understanding of how we are formed. Mind = Blown.
So before we were even conceived, we EXISTED. Again, this is like doctrinal level Christianity, and I'm not sure anyone will understand what I'm talking about unless you have a complete understanding of the Bible (in general). Again, if even one person knows what I'm talking about, i'm referring to ecclesiastical studies about humans existing in heaven until called down to our bodies, aka being born. Pretty fascinating stuff. Then if you really want to nerd out, SCIENCE and technology goes further and further down this path with each advancement in the medical field if any of you guys study that. (would like to dive into some of that in this thread.)
07-08-2021, 10:48 AM
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#53
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Originally Posted By Rabbitjb⏩
Can God prevent or create life during sex if it were his will? So if it's fertilized, God is involved, yes? ..... Problem?Quoting wiki (spits) cos lazy
ensoulment is the moment at which a human being gains a soul. Some religions say that a soul is newly created within a developing child and others, especially in religions that believe in reincarnation, that the soul is pre-existing and added at a particular stage of development.
In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first brain activity (e.g., heartbeat); or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]
ensoulment is the moment at which a human being gains a soul. Some religions say that a soul is newly created within a developing child and others, especially in religions that believe in reincarnation, that the soul is pre-existing and added at a particular stage of development.
In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first brain activity (e.g., heartbeat); or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]
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07-08-2021, 10:49 AM
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#54
Originally Posted By Rabbitjb⏩
Such a convenient way to get out of a admitting you are wrong. Your interpretations contradict areas of other scripture. In fact, we are specifically told…“Speak to the people of Israel, saying, These are the living things that you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth. Whatever parts the hoof and is cloven-footed and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat.”Compulsory vasectomies (which are reversible) is the best and only cure for unwanted pregnancies
You make no sense. This post is nonsensical. Your others are merely evangelism
You quote a fiction piece and find truth in it. I’m delighted you find comfort
Then you try to make others live by it. You know where you can stick that sanctimonious drivel
You make no sense. This post is nonsensical. Your others are merely evangelism
You quote a fiction piece and find truth in it. I’m delighted you find comfort
Then you try to make others live by it. You know where you can stick that sanctimonious drivel
Again, you don’t read the Bible, but instead find a few passages that meet your agenda and disregard everything else. I don’t waste time with people who don’t listen, but rather only wait for easy things to argue.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
07-08-2021, 10:53 AM
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#55
- Jayarbie
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- Jayarbie
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
You sound shook.Again folks, while you’re arguing over who is alive and who isn’t, the abortion rate is ever increasing as the result of society’s values and government interference. Regardless of the philosophical argument, is it not immoral to continue with policies that degrade values, lower standards, and make politicians more powerful? why are we funding abortion clinics? If people believe that government should stay out of it, then why are we paying taxes to keep abortion clinics open? When abortion clinics are closed, unplanned teen pregnancies go down. Is that not something we went? Or do we ignore this in order to get our politicians of choice more power? This is immoral in itself
The people who are arguing that abortion is fine are simultaneously influencing the numbers to go up. First they pushed birth control, which told teens that sex was casual. They taught it in school which made made it social. Then they support abortion which told society they don’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions. Now we have gay and trans who have their entire identities based around their sexuality, which is the result of making sex social, casual, and political
There’s a whole process here, as I keep pointing out. People are missing the forest for the trees and not realizing that there’s so many immoral and unethical issues about this
The people who are arguing that abortion is fine are simultaneously influencing the numbers to go up. First they pushed birth control, which told teens that sex was casual. They taught it in school which made made it social. Then they support abortion which told society they don’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions. Now we have gay and trans who have their entire identities based around their sexuality, which is the result of making sex social, casual, and political
There’s a whole process here, as I keep pointing out. People are missing the forest for the trees and not realizing that there’s so many immoral and unethical issues about this
07-08-2021, 11:04 AM
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#56
Early term abortions and miscarriages are basically the same thing. Why does god allow one and not the other?
You anti abortion wackos always focus on late term abortions when like 90% are done during the first trimester when there already a 33% chance the women miscarries. Of course leaving this decision up to a bunch of women hating men is already part of the problem.
You anti abortion wackos always focus on late term abortions when like 90% are done during the first trimester when there already a 33% chance the women miscarries. Of course leaving this decision up to a bunch of women hating men is already part of the problem.
07-08-2021, 11:05 AM
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#57
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
You are truly nonsensicalSuch a convenient way to get out of a admitting you are wrong. Your interpretations contradict areas of other scripture. In fact, we are specifically told…“Speak to the people of Israel, saying, These are the living things that you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth. Whatever parts the hoof and is cloven-footed and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat.”
Again, you don’t read the Bible, but instead find a few passages that meet your agenda and disregard everything else. I don’t waste time with people who don’t listen, but rather only wait for easy things to argue.
Again, you don’t read the Bible, but instead find a few passages that meet your agenda and disregard everything else. I don’t waste time with people who don’t listen, but rather only wait for easy things to argue.
You say the biblical rules are not arbitrary when they are absolutely
You think the bible isn’t a book of parables written by man
Great that’s your faith with zero substantiation, just more faith
And you’re quoting your bible as though it’s an argument, it not , it’s just your faith
07-08-2021, 11:14 AM
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#58
Originally Posted By Jayarbie⏩
Shook? When you realize that bad people are doing evil, I guess that's what you could call it. You see, the people doing this, and who are a part of it, have bad things happen in their lives. They have to live with their conscious and they tell themselves lies until they believe it, or they look to their god, gubment for support. The problem I have is when money is taken from my pocket to allow immoral behavior, then I have to deal with the continuous policy making in an attempt to "fix" things...its not that the bad behavior affects me, it's the political aspect of it and the money they take from me to do it.You sound shook.
It's also terrible for the economy.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
07-08-2021, 11:17 AM
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#59
- CalmWind
- Yeshua is Messiah
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- CalmWind
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I tend to avoid using my religion to debate against abortion.
It is wrong on every logical standpoint. People are using it as a method of convenient birth control. To avoid parental responsibilities, so they murder their own developing children.
It is wrong on every logical standpoint. People are using it as a method of convenient birth control. To avoid parental responsibilities, so they murder their own developing children.
Ave Christus Rex
Toxic Masculinity crew.
Pureblood crew.
Wholesome crew.
07-08-2021, 11:28 AM
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#60
- GreatOldOne
- Cthulhu fhtagn
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- GreatOldOne
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
You're missing that people don't and don't have to share your moral compass around abortions or sex or sexual preference.Again folks, while you’re arguing over who is alive and who isn’t, the abortion rate is ever increasing as the result of society’s values and government interference. Regardless of the philosophical argument, is it not immoral to continue with policies that degrade values, lower standards, and make politicians more powerful? why are we funding abortion clinics? If people believe that government should stay out of it, then why are we paying taxes to keep abortion clinics open? When abortion clinics are closed, unplanned teen pregnancies go down. Is that not something we went? Or do we ignore this in order to get our politicians of choice more power? This is immoral in itself
The people who are arguing that abortion is fine are simultaneously influencing the numbers to go up. First they pushed birth control, which told teens that sex was casual. They taught it in school which made made it social. Then they support abortion which told society they don’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions. Now we have gay and trans who have their entire identities based around their sexuality, which is the result of making sex social, casual, and political
There’s a whole process here, as I keep pointing out. People are missing the forest for the trees and not realizing that there’s so many immoral and unethical issues about this
The people who are arguing that abortion is fine are simultaneously influencing the numbers to go up. First they pushed birth control, which told teens that sex was casual. They taught it in school which made made it social. Then they support abortion which told society they don’t have to deal with the consequences of their decisions. Now we have gay and trans who have their entire identities based around their sexuality, which is the result of making sex social, casual, and political
There’s a whole process here, as I keep pointing out. People are missing the forest for the trees and not realizing that there’s so many immoral and unethical issues about this
Enjoyyourreligion.
Also, afaik we don't fund abortion either domestically or abroad...by law. The abortion rate has also been going down, I believe...for whatever it's worth. I consider that a good thing.
If you want abortions to stay low, then promote family planning and access to birth control and sex education.
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