It can but it’s very hard. Excess protein gets excreted out via urea. This is what is usually the case.

Yes I agree with all of that and you're right just cico alone is no good for fat loss or muscle gain. If you ate nothing but Skittles, a defecit would see you lose lean mass and a surplus would see you get fat (and probably also lose lean mass).

So clearly macros are important. Otherwise we could all quit the gym, eat 1,500 calories a day, lose weight and call it a day. But that wouldn't be gaining muscle or losing fat, it would just be "weight loss"

So I am 100% in agreement with you there. But I am not convinced that protein can't be turned into fat, and even if it can't, as you pointed out if you're in a surplus then the calories from fat or carbs on top of the protein can be converted into fat. If you're in a deficit then it's going to be virtually impossible to gain fat, but maintaining lean mass will be dependent on macros and training

So on that basis surely cico is a valid thing when combined with tracking macros?

did those studies monitor athletes doing fasted cardio taking 4g with low blood glucose in a glycogen depleted state?

and this was with acetyl l carnatine not a different form?

Did you know you need insulin to increase muscle concentration? Of any form?

It crosses the blood brain barrier which is why it’s effective as a focus agent.

I'll jump in. They aren't exactly stored as muscle. But the body needs to use energy to break down said protein molecules, unlike fats and carbohydrates that can be stored with much easier transformations of the molecule. so the energy from the protein molecule is actually less than or equal to the amount of energy required to break down the molecule. excess protein then can be used as energy source or for hormones. but the required energy to get the molecule there leads to adipose (excess energy) depletion

the issue with CICO is that MANY people fail to recognize how CO can be altered physiologically

do we have any IFBB pros here that can further elaborate on the fastest way to get diced

bodyscan lol

Is that why OP is on a high jizz diet?

OP is right for simplicities sake. Obiously there is more then one way to skin a cat but if you're not dedicated AF just maximizing protein first is the best way.

I've got a beach trip comming up and I'll most likely be eating lean bison/lamb/steak and 4 eggs per day to get diced.


The following picture is of Vince Gironda. Believe it or not this guy was natty in a time before anabolics. His diet of choice was steak and eggs. Two meals per day. He added in a small green salad and every sixth day as a cheat day to recarb up.

But jestbrah, repped

Does this have anything to do with protein digestion burning significantly more calories than fat/carbs or higher protein slightly increasing thermogenesis?

Jestbrah - what do you think an ideal % breakdown would look like then if you're not aiming for just weight loss, but solely fat loss?

For instance, I drankmaxxed and takeoutmaxxed throughout Covid and put on a ton of bloatmaxx weight.

I am currently cutting at 2,200 cals (600 cal deficit as maint is around 2,800).

2,200 cals are comprised of
180g protein (33%)
200g carbs (36%)
75g fat (31%)

If my goal is just to drop fat and bloat I've quickly biled on, based on what you're saying do you think 180g protein is too low. Should I jack this up to like 250g+? And if so, should I then pull down on fats or carbs, or both?

By body naturally feels better on high protein high fat but fat is extra cals and I'd prefer keeping fiber high for dem health gains.

For instance, if I increase protein to 50% of cals that looks like

275g protein
140g carbs
60g fat

Same 2,200 cals

I do IF and eat 2x a day though, so 275g seems impossible and perhaps reckless. I have a hard enough time getting 180g protein in 2 meals + 1 snack.

Pretty helpful screed brah, thanks for the info.

Calories for weight. Protein for composition.

I thought we knew this already

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4258944/

I think this study supports what Jestbrah is talking about to some extent.

Especially the section near the bottom entitled "The effect of a high-protein diet on body composition and weight loss".

Basically says that when subjects followed the same calorie restriction but one group significantly higher protein intake, BOTH groups lost weight similarly, but the high protein group maintained more lean body mass (meaning they lost more fat proportionally).

The group with higher protein intake pulled those calories by decreasing fat intake... the assumption is that carbs needed to remain constant to help with strength and athletic performance.... HOWEVER, it was also noted that for obese people and more sedentary people, the best results were seen with high protein diet that restricts carbs (not sure if keto or just general low carb).

Newer for vegetarian focused studied have come out saying CICO is key and manipulation of protein or carbs doesn't change much between groups from a weightloss perspective.... but if the focus is not just overall weightloss but loss of fat while preserving lean tissue (which I believe is what Jestbrah is saying) that seems to hold up.

And honestly, deapite being a short study, the results fit my anecdotal experience being in the lifting/bb'ing scene for almost 20 years.

Calorie restriction results in weight loss

Higher protein preserves lean mass and encourages "recomp"

People very active like crossfit, athletes, etc get better results with high protein and high carb.

People that are more sedentary tend to get better results with high protein and low carb.

heh

this is the opposite of what people should be thinking and realising

The biggest problem with the fitness/lifting industry (yes, industry) is strong, fit-looking people giving terrible advice and everyone following it because the person looks like they should know what they are doing. Often deliberately to promote products, programs and brands. It's literally an industry built on stealing money from stupid people by lying to them.

Like this guy recently whose built a great physique lifting weights for over a decade (and clearly plenty of PEDs) releasing some bull**** elastic band machine product and then claiming it's better than lifting weights, fully knowing it's bull****. "Durr how dare you say he is wrong he is bigger than you he is obviously right". Phucking idiots I swear.

truly horrible post, congratulations

Yes, but I think what discussing here is diving a couple layers deeper.

You want to lose weight you need to eat in a caloric deficit (CICO).

If you want to lose weight while preserving muscle you need to allocate more of those calories to protein.

I think the discussion here had become... to what extent should protein be increased and to what % of total cals to maximize results?

If I'm cutting on 2,200 cals will I see a difference between making 50% of cals from protein (275g) vs 33% of cals of protein (180g). Surely there is a point of diminishing returns, but the body burns hundreds of extra calories to digest that protein (mild state of thermogenesis) which could suggest allocating a ton of protein % of cals would allow you to theoretically eat the same # of cals but (satiety) but not have it metabolized as fat or glycogen.