Just about every alternative to battery tech is much better in the long run.

I mean think about all the technological devices you have owned with rechargeable batteries, I am willing to bet a lot of them don't hold their charge like they used to, or the battery eventually failed. It has always been notoriously unreliable technology with a notoriously short service life.

I say hybrids and PHEVs are the realistic future for a long time. The new Prius actually looks cool instead of goofy fhaggy and has 190 horsepower, still gets 55 mpg. Cars like the Chevy Volt but not made by GM should be the tech offered in vehicles. I think the Volt [only] had a 40-50 mile electric range, then a generator using gasoline kicks in to charge the battery and run the electric motor. Very different than standard PHEVs that have two separate motors, which complicates things and makes the vehicles more expensive. It also had regenerative brakes like a hybrid. That solution was introduced 15 years ago, so today for the same price you could have 100+ miles of electric only charge, gasoline kicks in after that.

In concept GM had a nearly perfect idea, but the problem was the brand.Few people have had faith in the Chevy brand since the 1980s.Had Toyota or Honda made vehicles with the same generator kicking to run an electric motor after battery range was gone I'd have said "shut up and take my money" a long time ago.Today with 100 miles of electric only range most people would rarely use gasoline. If going over 100 miles in a day okay you're using a little bit of gas with a vehicle that gets ~50 mpg, 35-40 mpg if it's a midsize SUV. Not only is this solution simpler and more elegant than PHEVs on the market today, if the local power goes out for days or weeks (hurricane, ice storms, other weather, an attack on the electric grid) you still have options.With an electric only vehicle you have no options.Fuuuuuuuuck that. The Southeast US gets hurricanes, much of the rest of the country gets occasional crippling snowstorms, California is teetering on 2nd world status with their electric grid, there are domestic and foreign actors who wish to attack our electric grid already, even more so when our transportation is nearly entirely dependent on the it.

Give me a Toyota that has a 100-150 mile battery, gasoline generator recharging it after that and basically all bases are covered, including against terrorism and weather.

Agreed. All batteries currently degrade.

EVs have not proven in cold weather and 300 to 400 miles per charge IMO is not enough because of emergencies like hurricanes for example, etc.

OP: If everything stays exactly as it is nothing will change.

If ICEs are vinyl, and hydrogen engines are CDs, electric cars are the ****ty cassette era.The first time you listen to (drive) one is the best it's going to be, and it's a steady deterioration until it's virtually unlistenable or just stops working altogether.

I see you mentioned biofuels above. Yes that's a very viable solution, but NOT and I repeat NOT using corn ethanol. That entire ecosystem between the US government and corn is corrupt corrupt corrupt corrupt. Filling up with 10-15%corn ethanol not only has politicians making many millions from subsidieslike that mostly retarded, thankfully gone Republican Congressman Michelle Bachman and others, it causes us to use MORE gasoline and emissions are worse. Not to mention ethanol breaks down sealants in various parts and causes other repairs. In realistic terms biodiesel is a very viable solution especially when brought to scale. Whether it's recycling restaurant grease or algae produced biodiesel, it's far superior to corn ethanol if we're citing efficiency, emissions and global warming as our concern.


Anyway you're right about EV range in the cold. BRB own a Tesla in Minneapolis or Buffalo. It's supposed to get 300 miles per charge but in January just 170 miles. Oops. Don't get stuck on the highway while blasting the heat to stay warm or you're going to need AAA to come save you.

California can't build a bullet train on time or anywhere near budget. Can you imagine them trying to regulate chargers into apartment buildings and lower income houses? People don't realize it but California is mostly rural areas.

We do need to get away from ICE but the government isn't going to be the one to save us.

even if they somehow update the grid, the majority of homes themselves don't have the capacity for an EV charger.

Agreed and thanks.Hybrids are a great alternative and I support 100%.

Fyi, this is kind of why I bought a PHEV last year. I wanted an electric ride for daily driving but was not comfortable being entirely reliant on EV. My old car was paid off and I was enjoying not having a car note, so I traded it in for a fairly cheap BMW that I'll pay off in 3 years, I thought of it as a test run to see if this worked (plugging a car in to charge was honestly kind of a daunting, almost alien, concept to me)... but having had it now like a year or around that, it's worked great. I think I'll pay this sucker off and get a good Toyota PHEV. Fuk, maybe even Hyundai, they've always been trash tier cars but like Kia lately they seem to be stepping up their quality.

Their high speed rail was supposed to be completed now, connecting LA to SF for one-third of the latest, old budget update. It's going to make Boston's embarrassing 'Big Dig' look like government infrastructure success and efficiency. Maybe the high speed rail will be finished by the time I visit my middle school nephew in LA when he has a family of his own, for half a Trillion dollars, with big federal bailouts. I can ride a bullet train with him up to SF when I'm retired.

Most people in LA live in either apartments or rent houses so good luck getting enough reliable public chargers for EVs to make that viable in a state withbrownouts already. The only way that's going to become successful is if California keeps losing population like it is now, from peak 39 million people to under 35 million. They will be forced to amend their "no new ICE vehicles in 2035" to include hybrids burning gasoline or else they will leave much of their population stranded.

Heard. I'm mostly on the same page as you. I think plug-in hybrids are the realistic solution for decades, with longer electric-only range than your vehicle to meet the needs of most people, to include people who drive 30-50 miles roundtrip to work plus some mileage for daily errands. So the 100 mile electric battery + gas engine would nearly eliminate gasoline dependency for consumers while not leaving people solely reliant on public EV charging, which can be unavailable or burdensome timewise. It also wouldn't strand them in weather emergencies or other scenarios. Then completely EVs can be used by those who want them and by companies delivering their goods. Maybe my mind can be changed but I think the Volt's solution with generator instead of separate Atkinson ICE engine is the way to go instead of 2 separate motors. Yes Kia has stepped up their game from crap to being good cars. I now have a Honda, which I'd trust as much as my Toyotas of the past. Domestically I trust Ford, which I'm sure people will poo-poo on, but that's an unimportant detail.

The stick in the mud preventing this common sense is California. As the biggest state in the most car dependent country laws they make determine not only what car manufacturers do for the US but much of the world. But like I said before and will continue to believe California will have no choice but to pull back on their EV or nothing shortsightedness. I'm sure hydrogen vehicles enter this discussion too but that's still a relatively unknown since that's a whole new paradigm with promise but lots of kinks to work out.

PHEV is a good bet right now imo.

IE: EV and a combustion engine.

Yes.
And this. At least a rechargeable battery boosted bike is something more attainable.

Owning a Tesla is basically an admission you enjoy pleasuring other men.

Thing is, those advertised ranges are a myth. Even in tests where people tried to do everything they could to hit those numbers, they usually can't even get close. It's like how laptop manufacturers will advertise crazy battery life, and you will be lucky to get half that doing normal computer stuff.

I wish I was kidding, but ded fking srs ,one morning on the news they were bitching about how leaving your cell phone chargers in the wall while not in use is over taxing the hydro infrastructure.
I’m like wtf over ! And now you’re recommending a 60 amp service in your garage to charge an EV probably, but cell phone chargers drawing a few milliamperes when not in use is already causing a major issue ?
The government certainly doesn’t do itself any favours when they’re perpetual liars.
I can’t imagine how much we’ll be paying for electricity when they have to rebuild all the infrastructure to support these EV’s .

Reminds me of how democrats are throwing a fit over how much power computers and computer hardware uses, while they are actively trying to force everyone to be completely reliant upon battery powered cars. It's absolute madness.

**** EV.

Its all about that Hybrid and hydrogen. Toyota knows whats up. F Tesla and F all these other EV ******* companies

TRUMP supports HYBRID

That's kind of the other predicament that mirrors a lot of rapidly evolving technology these days wherebecauseit keeps being advanced, it is (1) always more expensive,
(2) creates gradual obsolescence, which often leads to the really difficult part
(3) this results in making it difficult for everyone else to "jump in" since the older technology is being phased out at the same pace as newer technology, so the cost is always at a relatively high level.

Personally, batteries are another pit of vipers because in line with what JayJ350 said, batteries are inherently going to degrade, which is a fatal flaw due to how astronomically expensive they are to where it can be the price of an entire new vehicle.

Current battery technology is in a weird position where we're hitting a physics-level roadblocks that have to in turn be overcome by even more physics-level engineering to optimize them. Of course, that is going to mean the same tech race that will keep the costs high when/if we can eventually reach a good enough balance where they are not so cost prohibitive to the majority of people.

The biggest "what if" hurdle, for me iswhat ifwe find an alternative (e.g. bio-fuel like Mark1T mentioned) that is just flat out better than batteries, charging, and all of the necessary infrastructural updates? Hybrids at least offer a degree of flexibility in a time of transition, but this sudden push from some to completely transition to electric vehicles opens up the possibility that we wind up with not only a ton of waste, but the need to re-retrofit everythingagainfor that technology. Given the vast amounts of research into alternatives, it doesn't seem like a farfetched "if" to completely discount, but here we are where the course is perhaps too forcefully being steered in a single direction.

It's a bit like the push for ethanol (which again were at least hybrids, but a terrible form of fuel) that has pretty much fallen to the wayside before ethanol could even get major traction. Newer, better technology is always around the corner, but placing all bets on a single avenue that already has monumental hurdles to overcome just on an energyproductionlevel seems a bit myopic from the powers at be, and cynically a bit suspicious given how many new lobbies are already in the works just for anything EV-related.Bio-fuel (or for the sake of discussion, any other possible fuel alternatives in the running) have a lot of benefits, and focusing on just one, not doubling up reliance on a single source of energy (electricity) is a major plus that is easily overlooked. The recent tumultuous weather across the US should serve as a reminder that if you're out of electricity, you are severely screwed if that is the only source of power you have.Cynically speaking, that's another positive for those who have dubious motives for pushing it; now practically your entire car has built-in obsolesce given how obscenely expensive it is to replace acarbattery.

And in line with what I said above, let's just say they begin discontinuing the old models in favor of newer tech - now your carreallyhas a limited lifespan because once the battery does go, you're going to be left weighing the cost of scrounging up an older battery versus coughing up money for a new car...again.

I don't know, maybe that will push leasing more, which also benefits car makers even more (you will own nothing and will be happy), but also ironically defeats the whole "green" motivation if they're just making disposable cars.

Agreed and agree with nkiritsis. Currently, I think the best use for EVs is urban driving and commuting within 50 to 10 miles. Not for a road trip. My personal issues with EVs are fire possibility in my garage, range anxiety and high cost.

True, however, e-bikes and scooters are major fire hazards. The main reason is that the manufacturers of these things use cheap, Chinese made batteries which heat up fast. I will not buy one.

They arent the future plain and simple.

The bloom is clearly off the rose as more people are experiencing ownership of hearing horror stories about them.

Plus the grid in no way could handle it. they dont store up power for future use like people think. Power plants produce enough power to cover their needs. That means that if this is all to take place by 2030, they would already be breaking ground on multiple new power plants in every state.

is your state building any? We should technically all know someone who has been hired to build them but again, none of us know anyone because they arent even on the drawing board yet. That alone is enough to tell you that its all politicians talking smack and preparing us all for the impending tax increases.

These arent about the planet, they are about control and most people are starting to realize it.

well the grid does not have an even flow of generation, it ebbs and flows with known or expected demand. If you run a facility that uses a great deal of energy, think manufacturing, you can get yourself a HUGE rebate if you can accurately predict your usage and update the the provider and generator. My last employer -we had a piece of equipment that we HAD to give two weeks notice to our provider before turning it on as it would have caused a widespread black out due to how much power it used. In the control room they would have one screen on the generator's site which shows real time demand and generation and just watch the demand jump like crazy.

I bet people didn't think it would be feasible to get gas to so many cars. You're cavemen with no imagination for human progress. The rest of us will build out the future while you cry in your corner.

You haven't thought about this. There's absolutely no need for purely electric. A 100 mile electric battery + a gasoline generator that recharges the battery after it runs out of juice is how things should go.

Gasoline use
-DRASTICALLY cut, with most people using very little, some not using any gas at all. Likely 80% less overall than today, which is sustainable.
-the vehicles while using just the backup gasoline generator still get the same mileage as an efficient hybrid
-the gasoline usedshould(no guarantees) be less expensive with less demand
-so more oil can be used to make diesel, which is crazy expensive now

Batteries
-replacing the 100 mile battery some years later won't cost about as much as installing a new engine like it does today
-to have all pure EVs for just the US we need 5x as much lithium as is produced globally right now. What about the rest of the world? What about lithium needed in laptops, cell phones, etc?
-lithium mining is ecologically very harsh. Necessary, but better if we can not make it so expansive
-cobalt is still used in lithium batteries, for now. See: the Congo. Tech exists to not use it, but it has been used yet. Again, Congo.
-recharging 100 miles of range is a lot faster than 200-300, so...
-people don't feel like they have to get a special charger setup at home ($$$)

Electric Grid
-the same politicians trying to force pure EVs also refuse new electricity expansion that isn't solar or wind, which are intermittent
-with pure EVs electricity needed from the grid, including long haul trucks will need massive expansion
-what do you think is going to happen to electricity rates for your home as a result?

National and personal security
-with all pure EVs when a snow/ice storm hits, hurricanes, other natural events = many, sometimes millions are fuked for transportation, including many trying to leave
-with pure EVs = fuk, all the chargers are being used at this station, most of the car owners are off somewhere else while their car sits fully charged and still plugged in. Fingers crossed there aren't as many douches at the recharging station a few miles away, if you can make it there.
-with gas generator backup and 100 mile battery the car owners at public charging stations are in their cars ready to leave because it's just a few minutes. They're not eating at a restaurant or shopping nearby.
-with the gas generator as back up no range anxiety, just drive home on gas and recharge the [smaller] battery with your $20 extension cord
-attacks on the electric grid = pure EVs are a liability
-pure EVs.......what about apartmentcels, people with houses but no garage for a fast charger to be placed in, or house renters?

ALSO
-some of the problems multiply each other
-The people you say are going to "build out the future" have us already a decade behind where we need to be to meet the goals they want met, and they refuse the most reliable electricity sources for an expanded, reliable electric grid.

Caveats
-energy positive nuclear fusion has been achieved, in short spurts. Maybe one day it will be grid ready. That's an unknown. Until then we need more "old school" nuclear power plants. Thorium nuclear needs to be deployed too.
-dozens of "breakthrough" battery technologies have been announced every year for the last 15 years or so, some not using lithium or other problematic materials. Eventually at least one of the "breakthroughs" will make it to mass production leading to safer batteries that can charge as fast as a gasoline fill up.
-but even if the 2 caveats above come about some of the problems I mentioned will still exist.
-EVs don't save as much emissions as you think. Right now until they get past 60-80K miles of driving they have a bigger carbon footprint than a standard gasoline vehicle.
-The emissions savings of electrifying vehicles will be mostly in delivery, long haul shipping, other commercial purposes.

Reality based solution
-Whoever wants pure EVs, go for it. No force by law though. And NO MORE subsidies.
-100 mile range battery + gas generator should become the standard option. It isn't already because of compliance cars that manufacturers have been making for years to meet government regulations. The compliance cars have been hybrids with 2 separate, parallel systems. One ICE, a separate battery one. Except for GM's Volt all manufacturers have done the parallel system hybrids because it's easier to comply with govt regulations that way. I'm not even a fan of GM, but the Volt system was genius. It only had a 30-40 mile battery because it came out about 15 yrs ago. Today it would be easy to put at least a 100 mile battery in for the same price.




TL;DR
-plug-in hybrids with the GM Volt style system, but with a bigger battery make more sense for the masses than pure EVs. All drawbacks of pure EVs are eliminated but we'd still cut way back on pollution and actually be able to meet goals with less worry.

100% agree. Just think if Elon made a new hybrid model. He would sell millions of them.

Settles range anxiety and as you said, all drawbacks of pure EVs are eliminated but we'd still cut way back on pollution and actually be able to meet goals with less worry.

Lmfao at all the broke ass baller trumpanzees who can't afford an EV.

This is actually an amazing opportunity for landlords. Put a EV charger on the property and attach a credit card machine. 100 dollar to top off your EV's.

Landlord watching cucks charge EV to save grandma: Money money money money money chanting

you could probably just hook it to a generator trailer
infinity mileage hacks unlocked