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Forum » Hey Muslims, how you feel about your Prophet being debunked by the Dead Sea scrolls?
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Thread: Hey Muslims, how you feel about your Prophet being debunked by the Dead Sea scrolls?

post 1691709393 10-15-2023, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
So if you are under 10 seconds, it doesn't count. Sure.
Ok, sure, that's your belief. Do you negate Moses though?



If it helps you in your belief, you are free to think so...I can't control that.



Which Bible? You said preservation...do Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox have the right Bible?
Which Islamic sect is the correct one?
post 1691710233 10-15-2023, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Which Islamic sect is the correct one?
For anyone wondering, Shia/Sunni is a political issue and not religious. We have one Quran.

Refer to post 7. Dunno why you waste time on stuff you have no belief in...I couldn't care less on evolution for example tbh and wouldn't ever discuss or bring it up, waste of time on my end. Christianity has common grounds at least (even if we differ on some stuff).

An atheist who has no clue himself on how things came to be (or maybe he figured it out)...at the same time, is also certain religioncels are insane. Gotta pick one brah. You can continue to reply to me and I'm sure you find humor on your end no doubt.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691710413 10-15-2023, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
For anyone wondering, Shia/Sunni is a political issue and not religious. We have one Quran.

Refer to post 7. Dunno why you waste time on stuff you have no belief in...I couldn't care less on evolution for example tbh and wouldn't ever discuss or bring it up, waste of time on my end. Christianity has common grounds at least (even if we differ on some stuff).

An atheist who has no clue himself on how things came to be (or maybe he figured it out)...at the same time, is also certain religioncels are insane. Gotta pick one brah. You can continue to reply to me and I'm sure you find humor on your end no doubt.
So you don't believe in evolution?
post 1691710633 10-15-2023, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
So you don't believe in evolution?
Did u miss the part of waste of time on my end? Couldn't care to know. If you want to believe it, so be it. I came from some common ancestor...where did that prior ancestor come from?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691710973 10-15-2023, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
So if you are under 10 seconds, it doesn't count. Sure.
Ok, sure, that's your belief. Do you negate Moses though?



If it helps you in your belief, you are free to think so...I can't control that.



Which Bible? You said preservation...do Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox have the right Bible?
Dang this retard is actually Muslim 🤣

Your "religion" is a disgrace. Belongs in the stone ages
Not in the AM
post 1691711063 10-15-2023, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Did u miss the part of waste of time on my end? Couldn't care to know. If you want to believe it, so be it. I came from some common ancestor...where did that prior ancestor come from?
Dogs for example, have evolved to have facial expressions.
post 1691711203 10-15-2023, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted By MustardTiger17⏩
Dang this retard is actually Muslim

Your "religion" is a disgrace. Belongs in the stone ages
Enlightening post
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Dogs for example, have evolved to have facial expressions.
Amazing. Where did that dog come from?

inb4 turtles all the way down
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691711333 10-15-2023, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Enlightening post



Amazing. Where did that dog come from?

inb4 turtles all the way down
How do viruses evolve if evolution isn't real?
post 1691711523 10-15-2023, 10:08 AM
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Christ is the only way to peace. The evidence in the form of outcomes is proof.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1691711653 10-15-2023, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
How do viruses evolve if evolution isn't real?
nice, where did that virus come from?
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Christ is the only way to peace. The evidence in the form of outcomes is proof.
Buddhists claim the same...strong proof
Still waiting for an answer brah...did u ask ur Pastor?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691715843 10-15-2023, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted By MeSoHawny⏩
They are, many of the books are not even in the bible. Also the translations from Greek to other languages have shown differences in versions and interpretations

The Torah and the Koran can be passed on orally. The bible did not even exist until 350 years after Jesus died and is just a collection of works

OP should have thought twice about this thread.
you're an idiot, and I say that in the least respectful way possible, because you have google and still spouted a bunch of nonsense
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post 1691716443 10-15-2023, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By DDSF1⏩
The oldest Dead Sea scroll fragments go back to the 2nd century BCE, and that is if you believe the dating.

Also:

“While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text from only three manuscript families: of the Masoretic text, of the Hebrew original of the Septuagint, and of the Samaritan Pentateuch. It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Old Testament scripture was extremely fluid until its canonization around A.D. 100.”

***an, Brian M., and Charlotte Beck, The Oxford Companion to Archeology, entry on the "Dead sea scrolls", Oxford University Press, 1996.



I am not sure what op thinks he is proving by his post?
The Ketef Hinnom scrolls are from 600~ BC , I wrote the OP off memory and forgot about the difference, my mistake

I don't research or proof read everything, but I remembered enough, I was off by 200 years, regardless, 600 BC is good. And it proves the Bible was NOT written much later, as secularists like to claim

either way, islam's claims that the bible is corrupted have been debunked. The bible is the most copied text in human history, and it's been preserved down through the ages.
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post 1691716823 10-15-2023, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
So if you are under 10 seconds, it doesn't count. Sure.
Ok, sure, that's your belief. Do you negate Moses though?



If it helps you in your belief, you are free to think so...I can't control that.



Which Bible? You said preservation...do Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox have the right Bible?
Your boy muhammad was in a state of DEPRESSION

He was vomiting, sick, and was convinced he saw a demon. He was bed ridden for days.

It was his older wife who convinced him it was an angel.


When a real angel of God visits you, you do not get depressed and get sick and recognize it as a demon. Your boy muhammad was tricked by satan to create a warlike religion to deny Jesus Christ's sacrifice for your sins. That's what you follow.
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post 1691718173 10-15-2023, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
you're an idiot, and I say that in the least respectful way possible, because you have google and still spouted a bunch of nonsense
Brutal, why don't you advise and correct your Christian brother instead?

@MeSoHawny, ask any questions to me as long as we are being respectful, which you've always been to me brah.
Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
Your boy muhammad was in a state of DEPRESSION

He was vomiting, sick, and was convinced he saw a demon. He was bed ridden for days.

It was his older wife who convinced him it was an angel.


When a real angel of God visits you, you do not get depressed and get sick and recognize it as a demon. Your boy muhammad was tricked by satan to create a warlike religion to deny Jesus Christ. That's what you follow.
Nice.

Which Bible? Makes a thread about the Bible being preserved...yet won't answer which Bible? Christians don't even agree so settle between yourselves firstly. Why is for example Matthew 17:21 omitted in some translations?

Or maybe you have the answer to a question? 2 Chronicles 21:20 vs 2 Chronicles 22:1-2 (How is the son older than his father? 40 vs 42? Or maybe he was really 22 as 2 Kings 8:24-26 says?). So, is he older than his father or was he 22 or 42 when he reigned?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691718413 10-15-2023, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Brutal, why don't you advise and correct your Christian brother instead?

@MeSoHawny, ask any questions to me as long as we are being respectful, which you've always been to me brah.



Nice.

Which Bible? Makes a thread about the Bible being preserved...yet won't answer which Bible? Christians don't even agree so settle between yourselves firstly. Why is for example Matthew 17:21 omitted in some translations?

Or maybe you have the answer to a question? 2 Chronicles 21:20 vs 2 Chronicles 22:1-2 (How is the son older than his father? 40 vs 42? Or maybe he was really 22 as 2 Kings 8:24-26 says?). So, is he older than his father or was he 22 or 42 when he reigned?
Which Muslim sect is correct, Shia or Sunni? You can't even agree among yourselves

again, your boy muhammad was DEPRESSED and sick for a long time, convinced it was a demon because of the horrible energy it emanated


that's not from God. You know it. What it is, was Satan's attempt to create a new religion to deny who Jesus is.
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post 1691718903 10-15-2023, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
Which Muslim sect is correct, Shia or Sunni? You can't even agree among yourselves

again, your boy muhammad was DEPRESSED and sick for a long time, convinced it was a demon because of the horrible energy it emanated


that's not from God. You know it. What it is, was Satan's attempt to create a new religion to deny who Jesus is.
Are we discussing preservation of texts or discussing sects now? I didn't make the thread...so enlighten us. Is it 66 Protestant Books, 73 Catholic Books, 79 Greek/Russian Orthodox Books or maybe 81 Ethiopian Orthodox Books? Some other?

See, that's exactly your issue. For you guys to figure out who is right (Catholics vs Orthodox for example), you need an original which you do not have (P52 is the oldest manuscript dated in the mid 2nd century containing some verses from John). Even this holy trinity concept, where was it prior to the 4th century? One of the core tenants of your faiths not founded until centuries later? Brosefmengele, if ur watching, would reject the trinity altogether (mind you, he disagrees with me too).

You quoting dead sea scrolls is cute...how long between Moses and then? It's like me saying "Moses said this and that" over 1000 years laters.

Whereas, both Sunni/Shia still have the exact same book (114 chapters in the language it was revealed in) and our issue stems from politics. So if we want to settle our issue, we have it right in scripture.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691721623 10-15-2023, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Are we discussing preservation of texts or discussing sects now? I didn't make the thread...so enlighten us. Is it 66 Protestant Books, 73 Catholic Books, 79 Greek/Russian Orthodox Books or maybe 81 Ethiopian Orthodox Books? Some other?

See, that's exactly your issue. For you guys to figure out who is right (Catholics vs Orthodox for example), you need an original which you do not have (P52 is the oldest manuscript dated in the mid 2nd century containing some verses from John). Even this holy trinity concept, where was it prior to the 4th century? One of the core tenants of your faiths not founded until centuries later? Brosefmengele, if ur watching, would reject the trinity altogether (mind you, he disagrees with me too).

You quoting dead sea scrolls is cute...how long between Moses and then? It's like me saying "Moses said this and that" over 1000 years laters.

Whereas, both Sunni/Shia still have the exact same book (114 chapters in the language it was revealed in) and our issue stems from politics. So if we want to settle our issue, we have it right in scripture.
none of that matters, the Gospel of Christ is the same among them all.


meanwhile, muhammad was tricked by satan to form a fake religion that worships the devil and rejects who Jesus is.
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post 1691721703 10-15-2023, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Are we discussing preservation of texts or discussing sects now? I didn't make the thread...so enlighten us. Is it 66 Protestant Books, 73 Catholic Books, 79 Greek/Russian Orthodox Books or maybe 81 Ethiopian Orthodox Books? Some other?

See, that's exactly your issue. For you guys to figure out who is right (Catholics vs Orthodox for example), you need an original which you do not have (P52 is the oldest manuscript dated in the mid 2nd century containing some verses from John). Even this holy trinity concept, where was it prior to the 4th century? One of the core tenants of your faiths not founded until centuries later? Brosefmengele, if ur watching, would reject the trinity altogether (mind you, he disagrees with me too).

You quoting dead sea scrolls is cute...how long between Moses and then? It's like me saying "Moses said this and that" over 1000 years laters.

Whereas, both Sunni/Shia still have the exact same book (114 chapters in the language it was revealed in) and our issue stems from politics. So if we want to settle our issue, we have it right in scripture.
But your Quran states that the Bible (Torah) is true..are you saying your prophet is false when he declared this???
post 1691721843 10-15-2023, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
none of that matters, the Gospel of Christ is the same among them all.


meanwhile, muhammad was tricked by satan to form a fake religion that worships the devil and rejects who Jesus is.
claims bible is preserved
none of it matters

brutal
Originally Posted By Paul
But your Quran states that the Bible (Torah) is true..are you saying your prophet is false when he declared this???
get in line, sir
you've had your turn already...give others a chance
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691721963 10-15-2023, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
get in line, sir
you've had your turn already...give others a chance
So, you are going to dodge again lol.

Let’s try this one more time, your Quran states the Bible is true, are you calling your prophet false?
post 1691722093 10-15-2023, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
So, you are going to dodge again lol.

Let’s try this one more time, your Quran states the Bible is true, are you calling your prophet false?
Which Bible?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691722273 10-15-2023, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Which Bible?
Umm…Your prophet stated it..so which Bible was he referring to?





post 1691722443 10-15-2023, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
Umm…Your prophet stated it..so which Bible was he referring to?
Depends, did you guys come up with which Bible you agree on?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691722543 10-15-2023, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Depends, did you guys come up with which Bible you agree on?
Depends on what??
YOUR prophet stated it, YOUR Quran states it..are you calling your prophet a liar? Which “Bible” was he referring to exactly??


Try not to dodge this time lol


post 1691722793 10-15-2023, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
Depends on what??
YOUR prophet stated it, YOUR Quran states it..are you calling your prophet a liar? Which “Bible” was he referring to exactly??


Try not to dodge this time lol
Idk, apparently Catholics think theirs? You'd disagree though.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1691722863 10-15-2023, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
claims bible is preserved
none of it matters

brutal



get in line, sir
you've had your turn already...give others a chance
it is preserved. If Catholics wanted to add some more famous apocryphal books in the 1500s, it doesn't change the rest were still preserved. Fail.

The Gospel of Christ was untouched.

The books themselves were accurately preserved.

So.... islam debunked.
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post 1691722893 10-15-2023, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Idk, apparently Catholics think theirs? You'd disagree though.
I’m asking you NOT to dodge. Let’s try this ONE more time

-YOUR prophet stated the Bible (Torah) was true
-YOUR Quran stated it was true


-Are you now claiming you prophet a liar & your Quran false?

Come, I will send you to lick the Black Stone like your false prophet if you continue to embarrass yourself

It’s a simple yes or no.

Stop dodging
post 1691723033 10-15-2023, 02:11 PM
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Question for the guys debating the religious scriptures.

Don't Muslims or the koran refer to the Gospels and not the Bible (as later collected together with other texts)? Even if the whole thing That would be the Catholic or Orthodox version Bibles if referring to the Bible and not the Protestant one too right? So when the koran says the torah is corrupted and the gospels are corrupted it is referring to two different texts and not one thing that we now call the Bible. I bring this up because I think Protestants make the torah and gospels the same thing in this argument against the Koran.
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
The Ketef Hinnom scrolls are from 600~ BC , I wrote the OP off memory and forgot about the difference, my mistake

I don't research or proof read everything, but I remembered enough, I was off by 200 years, regardless, 600 BC is good. And it proves the Bible was NOT written much later, as secularists like to claim

either way, islam's claims that the bible is corrupted have been debunked. The bible is the most copied text in human history, and it's been preserved down through the ages.
I think the ketef-hinnom scrolls are old testament and not new testament fragments and they were not part of the dead sea scrolls. They are from the five books of moses and a small fragment of a blessing. Correct me if I am wrong.
Pro-Palestine, Pro-China, Pro-Iran, Pro-Russia, Pro-Venezuela
post 1691723313 10-15-2023, 02:16 PM
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  1. Paul Kreul
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  1. Paul Kreul
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Originally Posted By MasterMorality⏩
Question for the guys debating the religious scriptures.

Don't Muslims or the koran refer to the Gospels and not the Bible (as later collected together with other texts)? Even if the whole thing That would be the Catholic or Orthodox version Bibles if referring to the Bible and not the Protestant one too right? So when the koran says the torah is corrupted and the gospels are corrupted it is referring to two different texts and not one thing that we now call the Bible. I bring this up because I think Protestants make the torah and gospels the same thing in this argument against the Koran.
If the Torah is true (as the Quran states) then the Quran is false. Only one can be right.
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