03-03-2024, 02:25 PM
#31
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
you are wrong. The Quran gives no such commandment.
The palestinians are having the land where they grew up, their parents, their grandparents their great great great grandparents lived at stolen and are being subjugated as lower than 2nd class citizens in their own country.
Hamas is nothing more than the fathers and brothers of these victims over 75 years
The palestinians are having the land where they grew up, their parents, their grandparents their great great great grandparents lived at stolen and are being subjugated as lower than 2nd class citizens in their own country.
Hamas is nothing more than the fathers and brothers of these victims over 75 years
Umm. yes it does. And this is just a tiny bit.
Quran (6:93) - "Who can be more wicked than one who invent a lie against Allah?" If the death penalty is prescribed for lesser crime, then it stands to reason that it should be imposed for the most "wicked".
Quran (33:57) - "Verily, those who annoy Allah and His Messenger () Allah has cursed them in this world, and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating torment"
Quran (33:61) - [continues from above] "Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
Hadith and Sira
Sahih Bukhari (59:369) - This recounts the murder of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, a Jewish poet who wrote verses about Muslims that Muhammad found insulting. He asked his followers, 'Who will rid me of this man?' and several volunteered. al-Ashraf was stabbed to death while fighting for his life.
Sahih Bukhari (3:106) - "The Prophet said, "Do not tell a lie against me for whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then he will surely enter the Hell-fire."
Sahih Bukhari (4:241) - Those who mocked Muhammad at Mecca were later killed at Badr. Some undoubtedly died in the battle (provoked by Muhammad), but the Sira records that Abu Jahl was killed as he "lay helpless" (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451) and Uqba was brutally executed by Muhammad in captivity for having put his foot on him while he was praying and draping him with camel entrails (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 458 and Ibn Kathir v.2 p.318):
When the Messenger of God (SAAS) ordered his death, Uqba asked him, 'Who will look after my children, Muhammad?' 'The fire!'… [Uqba was] among the most evil of God's servants, the most stubborn, wicked, envious and disbelieving of men and they had been very active in satirizing Islam and its supporters. God damn them! And He did, indeed!
Sahih Muslim (1801) - "The Messenger of Allah said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger"
Quran (8:38-39) - “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven… And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from the Noble Quran
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last major chapters that Muhammad narrated - hence abrogating what came before, including the oft-quoted verse 2:256 -"There is no compulsion in religion…".
Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them…" This is one of the verses that abrogates 2:256, since prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat (see below). Some say that the textual context limits the application of this verse to non-Muslims in Arabia at the time of narration. While there is some merit to this, it does not change the fact that the Quran is sanctioning violence as a means of coercing religion.
Quran (9:11) - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion"In conjunction with the preceding passage, this confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam. Quran (9:56-57) - "And they swear by Allah that they are most surely of you, and they are not of you, but they are a people who are afraid (of you). If they could find a refuge or cave or a place to enter into, they would certainly have turned thereto, running away in all haste." This refers to people living with the Muslim tribe who may not be true believers, but must pretend to be in order to survive. They have no safe refuge to escape the Muslims. If Islam were a religion of peace, then why the fear?
Quran (2:193) - "And fight them until fitna is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase here is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."
Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?" But didn't the earlier verse (2:256) state that there is "no compulsion in religion"? This contradiction is resolved by abrogation - where the later verse supersedes the earlier one.
Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat." To be safe, people must profess faith in Allah (the shahada) and follow Islamic practices (the zakat and salat). Violence is thus sanctioned until the victims embrace Muhammad's religion and become obedient, practicing Muslims.
Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them … If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them" Osama bin Laden echoes this order from his prophet: "Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam … . Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die.” (source: The al-Qaeda Reader p. 19-20)
Sahih Bukhari (84:59) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"
Sahih Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
Sahih Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
Sahih Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:–'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."
Sahih Bukhari (60:40) - "…:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is defined here as a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.
Sahih Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader who Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.
Ibn Kathir v.4 p.133, Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959 - Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.” So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. The text goes on to say that Khalid taught the al-Harith about Islam after their "conversion," proving that it was based on fear of slaughter rather than a free and intelligent decision.
Ibn Kathir (Commenting on Quran 2:256 in the unabridged version of his tafsir) - "Therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the jizya, they should be fought till they are killed."
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 02:28 PM
#32
Originally Posted By MeSoHawny⏩
fuk ur mom retard
God this guy is stupid. Israel has no right to exist, its been Palestine for thousands of years.
edit: not for isreal but for calling me stupid
die u bitch
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03-03-2024, 02:37 PM
#33
Originally Posted By MeSoHawny⏩
God this guy is stupid. Israel has no right to exist, its been Palestine for thousands of years.
Umm
the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين, Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a state Founded on 15 November 1988
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 02:37 PM
#34
The liberals are backing hamas terrorists
the conservatives are backing innocent child killing Israel
the rational people are backing - idgaf what is happening thousands of miles away.. stop protesting foreign issues in our streets and don't send a PENNY abroad until all our problems at home are solved
the conservatives are backing innocent child killing Israel
the rational people are backing - idgaf what is happening thousands of miles away.. stop protesting foreign issues in our streets and don't send a PENNY abroad until all our problems at home are solved
03-03-2024, 02:41 PM
#35
Originally Posted By SlavaNaroda⏩
Who cares?
30k dead. 75% of whom are women or children. Kids mutilated. Butchered. Starving. 96% of water unfit for human consumption. Would you bomb an entire school to stop a killer? Israel basically did just that. Multiple times. Hospitals gone. Schools gone. Universities gone. Houses destroyed.
PS Israel kills its own forces to prevent capture. Look up Hannibal Doctrine. Israel is a fascist state.
PS Israel kills its own forces to prevent capture. Look up Hannibal Doctrine. Israel is a fascist state.
There was a ceasefire on 10/7
90% of Palestinians back Hamas
Those bodies lie at Hamas feet
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03-03-2024, 02:45 PM
#36
I'll bottom line it for you.
Land is holy
Both religions want it
One had it, the other conquered it
That happened back and forth a few times
Currently the jews own it and are petting the Muslims have a small peice.
Jews make it extremely difficult for Muslims
Muslims react violently
Jews react violently x10
Imagine you're in a car with your brother going "I'm not touching you I'm not touching you" and your brother goes "stop!" And it's you. Which you take as a green light to deck him
Land is holy
Both religions want it
One had it, the other conquered it
That happened back and forth a few times
Currently the jews own it and are petting the Muslims have a small peice.
Jews make it extremely difficult for Muslims
Muslims react violently
Jews react violently x10
Imagine you're in a car with your brother going "I'm not touching you I'm not touching you" and your brother goes "stop!" And it's you. Which you take as a green light to deck him
[My wife drank 9 Adios MFers in one night on a business trip with her boss]
03-03-2024, 02:47 PM
#37
Rrrrraaaaaarrrrrrggggggghhhhh
5'10
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03-03-2024, 02:50 PM
#38
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
strong copy paste.
Umm. yes it does. And this is just a tiny bit.
Quran (6:93) - "Who can be more wicked than one who invent a lie against Allah?" If the death penalty is prescribed for lesser crime, then it stands to reason that it should be imposed for the most "wicked".
Quran (33:57) - "Verily, those who annoy Allah and His Messenger () Allah has cursed them in this world, and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating torment"
Quran (33:61) - [continues from above] "Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
Hadith and Sira
Sahih Bukhari (59:369) - This recounts the murder of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, a Jewish poet who wrote verses about Muslims that Muhammad found insulting. He asked his followers, 'Who will rid me of this man?' and several volunteered. al-Ashraf was stabbed to death while fighting for his life.
Sahih Bukhari (3:106) - "The Prophet said, "Do not tell a lie against me for whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then he will surely enter the Hell-fire."
Sahih Bukhari (4:241) - Those who mocked Muhammad at Mecca were later killed at Badr. Some undoubtedly died in the battle (provoked by Muhammad), but the Sira records that Abu Jahl was killed as he "lay helpless" (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451) and Uqba was brutally executed by Muhammad in captivity for having put his foot on him while he was praying and draping him with camel entrails (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 458 and Ibn Kathir v.2 p.318):
When the Messenger of God (SAAS) ordered his death, Uqba asked him, 'Who will look after my children, Muhammad?' 'The fire!'… [Uqba was] among the most evil of God's servants, the most stubborn, wicked, envious and disbelieving of men and they had been very active in satirizing Islam and its supporters. God damn them! And He did, indeed!
Sahih Muslim (1801) - "The Messenger of Allah said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger"
Quran (8:38-39) - “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven… And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from the Noble Quran
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last major chapters that Muhammad narrated - hence abrogating what came before, including the oft-quoted verse 2:256 -"There is no compulsion in religion…".
Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them…" This is one of the verses that abrogates 2:256, since prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat (see below). Some say that the textual context limits the application of this verse to non-Muslims in Arabia at the time of narration. While there is some merit to this, it does not change the fact that the Quran is sanctioning violence as a means of coercing religion.
Quran (9:11) - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion"In conjunction with the preceding passage, this confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam. Quran (9:56-57) - "And they swear by Allah that they are most surely of you, and they are not of you, but they are a people who are afraid (of you). If they could find a refuge or cave or a place to enter into, they would certainly have turned thereto, running away in all haste." This refers to people living with the Muslim tribe who may not be true believers, but must pretend to be in order to survive. They have no safe refuge to escape the Muslims. If Islam were a religion of peace, then why the fear?
Quran (2:193) - "And fight them until fitna is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase here is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."
Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?" But didn't the earlier verse (2:256) state that there is "no compulsion in religion"? This contradiction is resolved by abrogation - where the later verse supersedes the earlier one.
Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat." To be safe, people must profess faith in Allah (the shahada) and follow Islamic practices (the zakat and salat). Violence is thus sanctioned until the victims embrace Muhammad's religion and become obedient, practicing Muslims.
Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them … If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them" Osama bin Laden echoes this order from his prophet: "Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam … . Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die.” (source: The al-Qaeda Reader p. 19-20)
Sahih Bukhari (84:59) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"
Sahih Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
Sahih Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
Sahih Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:–'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."
Sahih Bukhari (60:40) - "…:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is defined here as a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.
Sahih Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader who Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.
Ibn Kathir v.4 p.133, Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959 - Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.” So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. The text goes on to say that Khalid taught the al-Harith about Islam after their "conversion," proving that it was based on fear of slaughter rather than a free and intelligent decision.
Ibn Kathir (Commenting on Quran 2:256 in the unabridged version of his tafsir) - "Therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the jizya, they should be fought till they are killed."
Quran (6:93) - "Who can be more wicked than one who invent a lie against Allah?" If the death penalty is prescribed for lesser crime, then it stands to reason that it should be imposed for the most "wicked".
Quran (33:57) - "Verily, those who annoy Allah and His Messenger () Allah has cursed them in this world, and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating torment"
Quran (33:61) - [continues from above] "Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
Hadith and Sira
Sahih Bukhari (59:369) - This recounts the murder of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, a Jewish poet who wrote verses about Muslims that Muhammad found insulting. He asked his followers, 'Who will rid me of this man?' and several volunteered. al-Ashraf was stabbed to death while fighting for his life.
Sahih Bukhari (3:106) - "The Prophet said, "Do not tell a lie against me for whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then he will surely enter the Hell-fire."
Sahih Bukhari (4:241) - Those who mocked Muhammad at Mecca were later killed at Badr. Some undoubtedly died in the battle (provoked by Muhammad), but the Sira records that Abu Jahl was killed as he "lay helpless" (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451) and Uqba was brutally executed by Muhammad in captivity for having put his foot on him while he was praying and draping him with camel entrails (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 458 and Ibn Kathir v.2 p.318):
When the Messenger of God (SAAS) ordered his death, Uqba asked him, 'Who will look after my children, Muhammad?' 'The fire!'… [Uqba was] among the most evil of God's servants, the most stubborn, wicked, envious and disbelieving of men and they had been very active in satirizing Islam and its supporters. God damn them! And He did, indeed!
Sahih Muslim (1801) - "The Messenger of Allah said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger"
Quran (8:38-39) - “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven… And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from the Noble Quran
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last major chapters that Muhammad narrated - hence abrogating what came before, including the oft-quoted verse 2:256 -"There is no compulsion in religion…".
Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them…" This is one of the verses that abrogates 2:256, since prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat (see below). Some say that the textual context limits the application of this verse to non-Muslims in Arabia at the time of narration. While there is some merit to this, it does not change the fact that the Quran is sanctioning violence as a means of coercing religion.
Quran (9:11) - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion"In conjunction with the preceding passage, this confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam. Quran (9:56-57) - "And they swear by Allah that they are most surely of you, and they are not of you, but they are a people who are afraid (of you). If they could find a refuge or cave or a place to enter into, they would certainly have turned thereto, running away in all haste." This refers to people living with the Muslim tribe who may not be true believers, but must pretend to be in order to survive. They have no safe refuge to escape the Muslims. If Islam were a religion of peace, then why the fear?
Quran (2:193) - "And fight them until fitna is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase here is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."
Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?" But didn't the earlier verse (2:256) state that there is "no compulsion in religion"? This contradiction is resolved by abrogation - where the later verse supersedes the earlier one.
Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat." To be safe, people must profess faith in Allah (the shahada) and follow Islamic practices (the zakat and salat). Violence is thus sanctioned until the victims embrace Muhammad's religion and become obedient, practicing Muslims.
Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them … If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them" Osama bin Laden echoes this order from his prophet: "Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam … . Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die.” (source: The al-Qaeda Reader p. 19-20)
Sahih Bukhari (84:59) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"
Sahih Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
Sahih Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
Sahih Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:–'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."
Sahih Bukhari (60:40) - "…:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is defined here as a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.
Sahih Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader who Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.
Ibn Kathir v.4 p.133, Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959 - Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.” So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. The text goes on to say that Khalid taught the al-Harith about Islam after their "conversion," proving that it was based on fear of slaughter rather than a free and intelligent decision.
Ibn Kathir (Commenting on Quran 2:256 in the unabridged version of his tafsir) - "Therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the jizya, they should be fought till they are killed."
youre first quote is WRONG.
The actual ayah of 6:93 is "And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allāh or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allāh revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands,1 [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allāh other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant."
So I wont bother with any of the others as you obviously dont want to come to a factual conclusion
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 02:54 PM
#39
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
So muslims are incorrect in their own interpretation of their own religion? because you said these muslims are wrong. I mean I can get thousands of other quotations from the islamic doctrine if you like, are they ALL WRONG?
strong copy paste.
youre first quote is WRONG.
The actual ayah of 6:93 is "And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allāh or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allāh revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands,1 [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allāh other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant."
So I wont bother with any of the others as you obviously dont want to come to a factual conclusion
youre first quote is WRONG.
The actual ayah of 6:93 is "And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allāh or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allāh revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands,1 [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allāh other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant."
So I wont bother with any of the others as you obviously dont want to come to a factual conclusion
If its all wrong. why isnt Afgahanistan and Iraq and palastine lovely safe holiday destinations
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 02:59 PM
#40
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
Your sources are faulty, the very first statement I looked up is completely wrong (not misinterpreted just wrong).
So muslims are incorrect in their own interpretation of their own religion? because you said these muslims are wrong. I mean I can get thousands of other quotations from the islamic doctrine if you like, are they ALL WRONG?
If its all wrong. why isnt Afgahanistan and Iraq and palastine lovely safe holiday destinations
If its all wrong. why isnt Afgahanistan and Iraq and palastine lovely safe holiday destinations
And those countries were before occupiers and wars. Let be real Iraq war was to take their oil and gold, Afghan was for opiates for pharma, and Palestine is by illegal settlers.
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 03:09 PM
#41
So you've got a group of extremist terrorist hellbent on genocide and gas lighting the world about it. Then you have HAMAs, imagine the smell, nuff said.
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03-03-2024, 03:10 PM
#42
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
Umm. iraq and afghan has been at war before the US set foot there.
Your sources are faulty, the very first statement I looked up is completely wrong (not misinterpreted just wrong).
And those countries were before occupiers and wars. Let be real Iraq war was to take their oil and gold, Afghan was for opiates for pharma, and Palestine is by illegal settlers.
And those countries were before occupiers and wars. Let be real Iraq war was to take their oil and gold, Afghan was for opiates for pharma, and Palestine is by illegal settlers.
So you are saying that the 3 muslims fluent in arabic are wrong with their own translation of their own language and religion. Ok derpy
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 03:23 PM
#43
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
I am saying your sources you are using for information on an entire religion is wrong. I would suggest looking up what the classical scholars of Islam who muslims agree upon to get a real picture of the religion.
Umm. iraq and afghan has been at war before the US set foot there.
So you are saying that the 3 muslims fluent in arabic are wrong with their own translation of their own language and religion. Ok derpy
So you are saying that the 3 muslims fluent in arabic are wrong with their own translation of their own language and religion. Ok derpy
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 03:29 PM
#44
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
The source is from 3 muslims fluent in arabic. So you are saying these muslims are wrong and their own language is wrong
I am saying your sources you are using for information on an entire religion is wrong. I would suggest looking up what the classical scholars of Islam who muslims agree upon to get a real picture of the religion.
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 03:31 PM
#45
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
yes 100% wrong, the Quran is in Classical Arabic (Fusha Arabic). The quote I posted is the correct meaning of the ayah. Its not a short ayah is a few line.
The source is from 3 muslims fluent in arabic. So you are saying these muslims are wrong and their own language is wrong
(ayah best translates into portion or sentence/paragraph)
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 03:54 PM
#46
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
Taqiyya
yes 100% wrong, the Quran is in Classical Arabic (Fusha Arabic). The quote I posted is the correct meaning of the ayah. Its not a short ayah is a few line.
(ayah best translates into portion or sentence/paragraph)
(ayah best translates into portion or sentence/paragraph)
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 03:58 PM
#47
I could not care less about what brown people are doing across the world. We have our own problems. But seems to me that Hamas poked the bear and are now playing the victims. They hide amongst the women and children like cowards.
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03-03-2024, 03:59 PM
#48
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
Not at all brah, I am in a scenario where it is permissible for me to lie about my religion and esp about the quran. I would be commiting a grave sin that i would never do.
Taqiyya
You can download a free app of the quran and look up the ayah yourself. I recommend this one https://apps.apple.com/us/app/al-qur...d/id1437038111
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 04:04 PM
#49
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
Islam teaches you to lie to non believers. Its actually a sin to admit to a crime and admit to being wrong. unless you tell allah. he is the only one you can admit to lying
Not at all brah, I am in a scenario where it is permissible for me to lie about my religion and esp about the quran. I would be commiting a grave sin that i would never do.
You can download a free app of the quran and look up the ayah yourself. I recommend this one https://apps.apple.com/us/app/al-qur...d/id1437038111
You can download a free app of the quran and look up the ayah yourself. I recommend this one https://apps.apple.com/us/app/al-qur...d/id1437038111
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 04:04 PM
#50
I've seen multiple television ads about "send money to Israel now!" . "Stop jewish hate!"
Haven't seen anything about supporting the Palestinians except for the libs online. Seems like the mainstream elite sentiment is to support Israel at all cost. I'm always skeptical of the elites. Conservatives and liberals are capable of coming together on certain issues. Don't forget about the Occupy Wallstreet movement that had support from all sides
Haven't seen anything about supporting the Palestinians except for the libs online. Seems like the mainstream elite sentiment is to support Israel at all cost. I'm always skeptical of the elites. Conservatives and liberals are capable of coming together on certain issues. Don't forget about the Occupy Wallstreet movement that had support from all sides
Viva la Bam crew
jackass crew
03-03-2024, 04:07 PM
#51
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
Islam teaches you to lie to non believers. Its actually a sin to admit to a crime and admit to being wrong. unless you tell allah. he is the only one you can admit to lying
You are wrong, I cannot lie about my religion unless I am under threat of death. And its a sin to admit my SINS not crimes. If I fornicate with an HBB I have sinned, if I brag about it I have sinned again.
It is a major sin in Islam to give false testimony.
Crimes on the other hand I will have to deal with Gods judgement in this life (death for murder etc) or in the next and every believing muslim does not want to meet God's wrath on judgement day
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 04:14 PM
#52
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
You are wrong, I cannot lie about my religion unless I am under threat of death. And its a sin to admit my SINS not crimes. If I fornicate with an HBB I have sinned, if I brag about it I have sinned again.
It is a major sin in Islam to give false testimony.
Crimes on the other hand I will have to deal with Gods judgement in this life (death for murder etc) or in the next and every believing muslim does not want to meet God's wrath on judgement day
It is a major sin in Islam to give false testimony.
Crimes on the other hand I will have to deal with Gods judgement in this life (death for murder etc) or in the next and every believing muslim does not want to meet God's wrath on judgement day
You are lying again.
Deception, Lying
and Taqiyya
Does Islam permit Muslims to lie?
Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other… unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or "gain the upper-hand over an enemy."
There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Quran (3:28) - This verse instructs believers not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.
Quran (9:3) - "…Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters…" The dissolution of oaths is with pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir vol 4, p 49)
Quran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you the dissolution of your oaths…" For today's reader, the circumstances for betraying your word are not specified, leaving this verse open to interpretation. According to Yusuf Ali in his commentary: "if your vows prevent you from doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons, you should expiate the vow." (Presumably, whatever advances the cause of Islam would qualify as 'doing good').
Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" (see also 5:89)
Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which means 'cunning,' 'guile' and 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed companions by Muhammad's men after they were "guaranteed" safe passage (see Additional Notes below).
Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." In other words, lying is permissible when the end justifies the means.
Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy." The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).
Sahih Muslim (32:6303) - "…he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."
Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.
From Islamic Law:
Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory… it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression… (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)
"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."
The Hadith makes it clear that Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them or protect themselves. There are several forms:
Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true as it relates to Muslim identity (i.e whether one is a Muslim or what that means). This is a Shiite term: the Sunni counterpart is Muda'rat.
Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."
Tawriya - Intentionally creating a false impression by saying something that is technically true, when knowing that the listener will interpret it in a different way. This practice has a broader application than taqiyya.
Muruna - 'Blending in' by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 04:15 PM
#53
Steps to the advancement of the human civilisation:
1. White Eurocentrism becomes the norm
2. Eradicate all Zionists
3. German-led European crusade against Russia to eliminate Bolsheviks.
4. German-led European crusade against the USA to eliminate Zionist collaborators.
5. Out-of-control rotting countries in East Asia, Africa and the Middle East immediately again under British control. This is to include the USA, to fully subjugate its war-pig tendency.
6. Koreans and Japanese will be assigned to rule administratively over such countries as described in step 5, but will pay the coalition of eurocentrism a royalty.
7. If countries of scale that have the ability to counter the coalition of eurocentrism, such as China and India, choose to do so, they shall be nuked without question.
1. White Eurocentrism becomes the norm
2. Eradicate all Zionists
3. German-led European crusade against Russia to eliminate Bolsheviks.
4. German-led European crusade against the USA to eliminate Zionist collaborators.
5. Out-of-control rotting countries in East Asia, Africa and the Middle East immediately again under British control. This is to include the USA, to fully subjugate its war-pig tendency.
6. Koreans and Japanese will be assigned to rule administratively over such countries as described in step 5, but will pay the coalition of eurocentrism a royalty.
7. If countries of scale that have the ability to counter the coalition of eurocentrism, such as China and India, choose to do so, they shall be nuked without question.
communist until you get rich
rightwing until financially secure
atheist until the plane starts falling
slootist until you get married
muslim after you get married
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03-03-2024, 04:19 PM
#54
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
You are wrong, I cannot lie about my religion unless I am under threat of death. And its a sin to admit my SINS not crimes. If I fornicate with an HBB I have sinned, if I brag about it I have sinned again.
It is a major sin in Islam to give false testimony.
Crimes on the other hand I will have to deal with Gods judgement in this life (death for murder etc) or in the next and every believing muslim does not want to meet God's wrath on judgement day
It is a major sin in Islam to give false testimony.
Crimes on the other hand I will have to deal with Gods judgement in this life (death for murder etc) or in the next and every believing muslim does not want to meet God's wrath on judgement day
ughhh, religioncels, no wonder some way along your family line went to live in Canada
why don't you all sand people, Jew or Muslim, abandon cultural **** that makes their home countries a ****hole
btw, don't take it as if I prefer the Jews, they are the worst tribe in the world
they are just smarter than the Islamists
communist until you get rich
rightwing until financially secure
atheist until the plane starts falling
slootist until you get married
muslim after you get married
- atgbrahsrs
- ToningWasTooHarshForMe
- atgbrahsrs
- ToningWasTooHarshForMe
- Join Date: Jan 2015
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03-03-2024, 04:28 PM
#55
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
You are lying again.
Deception, Lying
and Taqiyya
Does Islam permit Muslims to lie?
Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other… unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or "gain the upper-hand over an enemy."
There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Quran (3:28) - This verse instructs believers not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.
Quran (9:3) - "…Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters…" The dissolution of oaths is with pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir vol 4, p 49)
Quran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you the dissolution of your oaths…" For today's reader, the circumstances for betraying your word are not specified, leaving this verse open to interpretation. According to Yusuf Ali in his commentary: "if your vows prevent you from doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons, you should expiate the vow." (Presumably, whatever advances the cause of Islam would qualify as 'doing good').
Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" (see also 5:89)
Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which means 'cunning,' 'guile' and 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed companions by Muhammad's men after they were "guaranteed" safe passage (see Additional Notes below).
Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." In other words, lying is permissible when the end justifies the means.
Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy." The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).
Sahih Muslim (32:6303) - "…he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."
Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.
From Islamic Law:
Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory… it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression… (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)
"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."
The Hadith makes it clear that Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them or protect themselves. There are several forms:
Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true as it relates to Muslim identity (i.e whether one is a Muslim or what that means). This is a Shiite term: the Sunni counterpart is Muda'rat.
Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."
Tawriya - Intentionally creating a false impression by saying something that is technically true, when knowing that the listener will interpret it in a different way. This practice has a broader application than taqiyya.
Muruna - 'Blending in' by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.
Deception, Lying
and Taqiyya
Does Islam permit Muslims to lie?
Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other… unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or "gain the upper-hand over an enemy."
There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Quran (3:28) - This verse instructs believers not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.
Quran (9:3) - "…Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters…" The dissolution of oaths is with pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir vol 4, p 49)
Quran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you the dissolution of your oaths…" For today's reader, the circumstances for betraying your word are not specified, leaving this verse open to interpretation. According to Yusuf Ali in his commentary: "if your vows prevent you from doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons, you should expiate the vow." (Presumably, whatever advances the cause of Islam would qualify as 'doing good').
Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" (see also 5:89)
Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which means 'cunning,' 'guile' and 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed companions by Muhammad's men after they were "guaranteed" safe passage (see Additional Notes below).
Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." In other words, lying is permissible when the end justifies the means.
Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy." The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).
Sahih Muslim (32:6303) - "…he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."
Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.
From Islamic Law:
Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory… it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression… (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)
"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."
The Hadith makes it clear that Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them or protect themselves. There are several forms:
Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true as it relates to Muslim identity (i.e whether one is a Muslim or what that means). This is a Shiite term: the Sunni counterpart is Muda'rat.
Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."
Tawriya - Intentionally creating a false impression by saying something that is technically true, when knowing that the listener will interpret it in a different way. This practice has a broader application than taqiyya.
Muruna - 'Blending in' by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.
lol another wall of copy paste.
Yes in war you can use deciet. Like when the allies deceived the germans that they will attack at Normandy. Also yes if my wife looks fat in an outfit I can lie and say she doesnt being merciful.
You are obviously ignorant and dont want to actually find out about Islam.
Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
I was born in Bagdad, I left for obvious reasons in 1990.
ughhh, religioncels, no wonder some way along your family line went to live in Canada
why don't you all sand people, Jew or Muslim, abandon cultural **** that makes their home countries a ****hole
btw, don't take it as if I prefer the Jews, they are the worst tribe in the world
they are just smarter than the Islamists
why don't you all sand people, Jew or Muslim, abandon cultural **** that makes their home countries a ****hole
btw, don't take it as if I prefer the Jews, they are the worst tribe in the world
they are just smarter than the Islamists
You can bash "religioncels" all you want but you Godless people are mutaliting your children while allowing trannies to influence them.
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 04:33 PM
#56
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
Sad I know more about your religion than you.
lol another wall of copy paste.
Yes in war you can use deciet. Like when the allies deceived the germans that they will attack at Normandy. Also yes if my wife looks fat in an outfit I can lie and say she doesnt being merciful.
You are obviously ignorant and dont want to actually find out about Islam.
I was born in Bagdad, I left for obvious reasons in 1990.
You can bash "religioncels" all you want but you Godless people are mutaliting your children while allowing trannies to influence them.
Yes in war you can use deciet. Like when the allies deceived the germans that they will attack at Normandy. Also yes if my wife looks fat in an outfit I can lie and say she doesnt being merciful.
You are obviously ignorant and dont want to actually find out about Islam.
I was born in Bagdad, I left for obvious reasons in 1990.
You can bash "religioncels" all you want but you Godless people are mutaliting your children while allowing trannies to influence them.
And no one wants that for our children.
Speaking of children. whats the legal age to marry a child in islam and sleep with them? at what point can a man lay with his child wife?
Whats the penalty for apostasy?
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 04:39 PM
#57
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
Whataboutism + black or white fallacies all in one go
I was born in Bagdad, I left for obvious reasons in 1990.
You can bash "religioncels" all you want but you Godless people are mutaliting your children while allowing trannies to influence them.
You can bash "religioncels" all you want but you Godless people are mutaliting your children while allowing trannies to influence them.
you start talking about the transmaxing, nothing to do with sand people stuff
then you are trying to impose a reality where it is either religionceldom or transmaxerdom
Japan, South Korea etc all have minimal transmaxing, minimal everything bad, but are one of the most atheist countries in the world
where I am going with this - I sympathise fully with Palestinians because at the end of the day they are victims of another brutal act of religionmaxing - Zionism
but Islamism is on par with it
And I am just struggling to understand why you just won't let go when you live in Canada and become Canadian finally for **** sake and focus on anti Zionist activity on political influence in Canada
There is a reason Europe has not had a massive bloodshed based on religion for a lot of years
So admit, that Iraq etc are all better under Eurocentric colonial rule to bring about order
Same for Gaza
Even the biggest existential threat to Zionism tribe has come from Austria and Germany
Eurocentric rule
beavers love it, yanks love it
the sand people love it
communist until you get rich
rightwing until financially secure
atheist until the plane starts falling
slootist until you get married
muslim after you get married
- atgbrahsrs
- ToningWasTooHarshForMe
- atgbrahsrs
- ToningWasTooHarshForMe
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03-03-2024, 04:42 PM
#58
^^actually Islam is growing in Japan.
And you know nothing about me, I am Canadian. My son i Canadian. I grew up here and was educated here. You are the one going off on whataboutisms.
You chose to jump in and talk about me since I believe in God, while the big athiest movement started so did the mutilating of kids.
whatever brah, I wanted to inform that your beliefs about islam are mistaken.
It is older than those kids being read books by ****philes
https://www.newsweek.com/sex-offende...ibrary-1365384
But to answer your question it is the age of consent of the laws of the country (unless the law allows girls who havent reached puberty puberty)
And you know nothing about me, I am Canadian. My son i Canadian. I grew up here and was educated here. You are the one going off on whataboutisms.
You chose to jump in and talk about me since I believe in God, while the big athiest movement started so did the mutilating of kids.
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
Sad I know more about your religion than you.
And no one wants that for our children.
Speaking of children. whats the legal age to marry a child in islam and sleep with them? at what point can a man lay with his child wife?
Whats the penalty for apostasy?
And no one wants that for our children.
Speaking of children. whats the legal age to marry a child in islam and sleep with them? at what point can a man lay with his child wife?
Whats the penalty for apostasy?
whatever brah, I wanted to inform that your beliefs about islam are mistaken.
It is older than those kids being read books by ****philes
https://www.newsweek.com/sex-offende...ibrary-1365384
But to answer your question it is the age of consent of the laws of the country (unless the law allows girls who havent reached puberty puberty)
"Take account of yourselves before your are brought to account."
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength -Marcus Aurelius
03-03-2024, 04:55 PM
#59
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
More lies. Go live in Iraq or Afghanistan or palestine if its so great.
^^actually Islam is growing in Japan.
And you know nothing about me, I am Canadian. My son i Canadian. I grew up here and was educated here. You are the one going off on whataboutisms.
You chose to jump in and talk about me since I believe in God, while the big athiest movement started so did the mutilating of kids.
whatever brah, I wanted to inform that your beliefs about islam are mistaken.
It is older than those kids being read books by ****philes
https://www.newsweek.com/sex-offende...ibrary-1365384
But to answer your question it is the age of consent of the laws of the country (unless the law allows girls who havent reached puberty puberty)
And you know nothing about me, I am Canadian. My son i Canadian. I grew up here and was educated here. You are the one going off on whataboutisms.
You chose to jump in and talk about me since I believe in God, while the big athiest movement started so did the mutilating of kids.
whatever brah, I wanted to inform that your beliefs about islam are mistaken.
It is older than those kids being read books by ****philes
https://www.newsweek.com/sex-offende...ibrary-1365384
But to answer your question it is the age of consent of the laws of the country (unless the law allows girls who havent reached puberty puberty)
Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.
Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.
Lift and learn.
03-03-2024, 05:11 PM
#60
Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
^^actually Islam is growing in Japan.
Despite a small initial population base, immigration from Muslim majority countries has made Islam one of the fastest growing religions in the country in terms of percentage increase, with its followers growing by approximately 110%, from 110,000 in 2010 to 230,000 at the end of 2019, out of the total population of Japan of around 126 million.[2][3][4]
The relative increase is so huge because it starts from a miniscule data point. And because as per above the majority is so basically Indonesian maid workers + refugees from yet another war-torn place.
You would have impressed me if the Japanese, as smart educated and advanced as they are, were responsible for the increase as CONVERTS. Wishful thinking.
Originally Posted By allrnder⏩
Never. All from the comfort of the West.
More lies. Go live in Iraq or Afghanistan or palestine if its so great.
communist until you get rich
rightwing until financially secure
atheist until the plane starts falling
slootist until you get married
muslim after you get married
- atgbrahsrs
- ToningWasTooHarshForMe
- atgbrahsrs
- ToningWasTooHarshForMe
- Join Date: Jan 2015
- Posts: 10,177
- Rep Power: 68,543
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