So here is how I'm seeing things now

Glock
*Unbeatable size vs barrel length vs capacity for compact and sub-compact double stacks (the only match on the market to date is M&P 2.0 Compact 4" vs G19)
*Low bore axis, flat shooting,fastshooting
*Cheap, reliable magazines, both factory and aftermarket
*Best selection of accessories and aftermarket there is (holsters, sights, mods, everything)
*Easy to disassemble completely by the layman with YT and a simple punch
*Pretty good stock trigger for a practical/defensive poly pistol especially Gen 5 (I have never modified a Glock trigger and have no inclination to do so)
*As reliable and durable as they come
*Huge selection of 'the same' gun in different sizes and calibers, unmatched on the market and it's not even close
Cons: Anti-ergonomic block grip, have to pull trigger to field strip and pull tabs are more difficult to manipulate than a lever, shoots low and/or left for many people (...), grip texture is meh (bad grip texture on Gen3)

H&K VP
*Fantastic ergonomics, hand fits grip like a glove, it just feels right
*Best factory trigger of this trio, one of the best factor poly triggers out there
*Superior paddle mag release (semi-subjective, button also available so everybody's happy)
*Accurate, easiest pistol I've owned for shooting small discrete targets and hitting exactly where I want
*Shoots straight, dead on with sights physically dead center on the slide
*Take-down lever requires no trigger pull or any other step to field strip
*Stupid-reliable for me over thousands of rounds in multiple pistols, the things even perfectly feed empty spent casings as ball and dummy drill for crying out loud
Cons: Bore axis and muzzle flip, difficult to detail strip for most people especially the trigger, poor grip texture requires talons etc, limited model selection, barrels are short for physical size, mag capacity is small for size (VP9 is G17 size but G19 capacity and barrel...VP9SK 13 round is G19 size but missing two rounds and G43 barrel length)

S&W M&P 2.0
*Most aggressive and therefore best factory grip texture
*Matches Glock for size vs barrel vs capacity, which means two way tie for best on the market
*Low bore axis, flat shooting,fastshooting (just like Glock)
*Lowest purchase price
*Can be field stripped without pulling trigger
*Easy to disassemble yourself
*Pretty good grip ergonomics, doesn't feel/fit as beautifully as the VP but is definitely better than the Glock and still has Glock's bore axis
*Pretty good pistol selection, way better than the VP, but definitely behind Glock...solidly medicre
Cons: Trigger breaks too far to the rear, stock triggers are consistently the worse of any striker pistol I have owned or considered owning yes even the 2.0


Right now I'm favoring the M&P.After an Apex triggerit matches or beats Glock in everything that matters to me. Same bore axis, better ergos, better grip texture, lower price allows an Apex trigger for a better trigger without spending more really, same ease of complete disassembly, better field strip method I don't care about the extensive .40/.357/.45/10mm offerings as I pretty much just end up shooting and carrying 9mm exclusively anyway.

If I was going to do a slow fire accuracy drill or a "shoot that really small target" competition I'd take the VP9 every damn time...but practical shooting and preparing for a possible DGU it about raw speed, "accurate enough and always faster", and the faster you shoot the VP the more the low bore axis pulls ahead.

One handed shooting exacerbates the bore axis.



You can't go wrong with any of the three and several other choices too, it's a great time to be in the market for pistols because we are flooded with outstanding options, what really matters is training with your pistols, put rounds downrange oh and just say no to S*g







If you're new to the game, just get a Glock 19 or an M&P 2.0 Compact.

Well, it was nice to wake up this morning and at least see that CO voters killed off another "tax increase". Small victories, I suppose. Back in the 80's when the state was steadfastly red, the legislature passed TABOR (The Taxpayer Bill of Rights) which basically sets limits on state govt spending and mandates that all tax increases must be done via ballot measure. So even though the dems have control, they can't just sit there and raise taxes like in CA. NY, etc. The bonus is that excess funds via existing taxes (based on TABOR formula) need to be returned to the people as refunds.

Every year, though, they try to work towards chipping away at TABOR. This time around, they put a ballot measure out that basically asked if the state could keep the excess funds. They sold it as "not a tax increase" since it was money people already paid . . . but the law mandates that the money be refunded.

It lost big. Still too many libs voting libs into office and making stupid laws. But at least they can't go full potato on spending and taxes yet. If they take enough seats down the road, they will probably vote to repeal TABOR but that's a pretty dicey issue for them to take up given how votes have been landslides against increases for the last 20+ years.

The gambling one is neck and neck

Not really sure why there are so many no votes. Let people bet idgaf.

That G34 you guys did is sick.

The theory on that one, I think, is that the ballot measure starts with "shall taxes be increased" and so people's initial reaction is "phukk no".

For whatever reason, the CC wording got to start with "without raising taxes" . . . which is highly deceptive. If the govt takes in more money that it's allowed to keep and is obligated to return it (but doesn't) then that was a tax increase on the people who paid. It lost huge anyway. People saw past that.

Maybe just chill with the deceptive wording and you'll get what you want.

lol, I found something new

https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/comm...back_together/

What's great is how many people either have also done it or are contemplating doing it so they can see it for themselves and see if they can fix it.

You have a few extra Glocks, Farley. Do it. For science.

Well, it was nice to wake up this morning and at least see that CO voters killed off another "tax increase". Small victories, I suppose. Back in the 80's when the state was steadfastly red, the legislature passed TABOR (The Taxpayer Bill of Rights) which basically sets limits on state govt spending and mandates that all tax increases must be done via ballot measure. So even though the dems have control, they can't just sit there and raise taxes like in CA. NY, etc. The bonus is that excess funds via existing taxes (based on TABOR formula) need to be returned to the people as refunds.

Every year, though, they try to work towards chipping away at TABOR. This time around, they put a ballot measure out that basically asked if the state could keep the excess funds. They sold it as "not a tax increase" since it was money people already paid . . . but the law mandates that the money be refunded.

It lost big. Still too many libs voting libs into office and making stupid laws. But at least they can't go full potato on spending and taxes yet. If they take enough seats down the road, they will probably vote to repeal TABOR but that's a pretty dicey issue for them to take up given how votes have been landslides against increases for the last 20+ years.

I was wondering what the general consensus is for top level instructors are across the US?

Premise: A local gun FB group was talking about why top level instructors don't come to New england because there is no high quality facilities, with some facility was getting a face lift. I mentioned that a Vickers class was cancelled due to low enrollment. the answer I got was "He's kind of the old guard and certainly gets a lot of fanboys....."

My point wasn't so much about the instructor but that no one was signing up and paying for the classes.

I'd think that if you're going to throw names around for actual classes you will take, Vickers has to be up there. IDK I'm low speed and have only done classes myself with Vickers and Frank Proctor (and various local stuff). I would/will do more with Proctor and am looking for some openings with John Lovell (warrior poet) as well (those two having facilities semi local to me)

lol, I found something new

https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/comm...back_together/

I was wondering what the general consensus is for top level instructors are across the US?

Premise: A local gun FB group was talking about why top level instructors don't come to New england because there is no high quality facilities, with some facility was getting a face lift. I mentioned that a Vickers class was cancelled due to low enrollment. the answer I got was "He's kind of the old guard and certainly gets a lot of fanboys....."

My point wasn't so much about the instructor but that no one was signing up and paying for the classes.

these are the instructors the guy told me are "really moving the ball forward: scott jedlinski, jared reston, Bill blowers, Chuck Pressburg, Varg Freeborn."

I haven't been to any classes yet, So I have no leg to stand on in what instructors are at the forefront.

Target Sports has 50% off HST ammo in 9mm and 45.
I've never bought from Target Sports before - this is my first time. But I've seen some of you guys mention them before.
This is my preferred ammo so I thought I would share after submitting my own order...

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...eid=24fabae091

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...t2-p-3547.aspx

I don't either, but, I don't recognize any of those names. I hit google, first name has no LE or mil experience, is USPSA master class, but...I'm going with the guy who has both .mil SF experience and has been a high level competition shooter.

Second one is Jacksonville SO's swat firearms instructor, he's been with the dept for 8 years, didn't see competition mention

Third has 6 years "army" and 25 years LE with a lot of swat, didn't see competition mention

Didn't see much quickly on the next guy

Picked up a g34 Gen 5 MOS. Fuk yeah.

Need to decide on an optic (vortex venom?) and trigger (Johnny Glock?) and I'm set.

Target Sports has 50% off HST ammo in 9mm and 45.
I've never bought from Target Sports before - this is my first time. But I've seen some of you guys mention them before.
This is my preferred ammo so I thought I would share after submitting my own order...

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...eid=24fabae091

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...t2-p-3547.aspx

I don't either, but, I don't recognize any of those names. I hit google, first name has no LE or mil experience, is USPSA master class, but...I'm going with the guy who has both .mil SF experience and has been a high level competition shooter.

Second one is Jacksonville SO's swat firearms instructor, he's been with the dept for 8 years, didn't see competition mention

Third has 6 years "army" and 25 years LE with a lot of swat, didn't see competition mention

Didn't see much quickly on the next guy

Picked up a g34 Gen 5 MOS. Fuk yeah.

Need to decide on an optic (vortex venom?) and trigger (Johnny Glock?) and I'm set.

Went to start my truck today and wouldn’t start. Tested the battery and no good. Tried to buy a tier 1 Optima battery but none in stock and a week out so that was ghey.

My Aimpoint should be here soon so I’m excited to have my most recent gun finished with.

Optima lost it's tier 1 status years ago

What’s good then? I just got the best Oreillys house brand one. Has like 70 more cold cranking amps then what was in there anyway so whatever.