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» Is this paedo-panic just the Satanic panic all over again?
03-05-2024, 10:19 AM
#751
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Ahh!
Huh?
..I argued the “benefit” of surgery was false..as being on hormone Thearpy showed to alter mood/emotional state.
..I argued the “benefit” of surgery was false..as being on hormone Thearpy showed to alter mood/emotional state.
My bad.
I guess it's good that most with gender dysphoria start with hormones and usually have that as the only medical therapy.
That said, I question whether surgery being of benefit has been proven false. It would take a design that would face some ethical and recruitment challenges. I'd say a thoughtful analysis of observational data would be a more likely/efficient approach.
This one kind of gets a start on the topic. But it's a narrative review rather than a causal model.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/
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03-05-2024, 10:32 AM
#752
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
You are still under the belief that hormone Thearpy is the solution to simply improve mood without looking at the costs I guess. sad.
Ahh!
My bad.
I guess it's good that most with gender dysphoria start with hormones and usually have that as the only medical therapy.
That said, I question whether surgery being of benefit has been proven false. It would take a design that would face some ethical and recruitment challenges. I'd say a thoughtful analysis of observational data would be a more likely/efficient approach.
This one kind of gets a start on the topic. But is a narrative review rather than a causal model.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/
My bad.
I guess it's good that most with gender dysphoria start with hormones and usually have that as the only medical therapy.
That said, I question whether surgery being of benefit has been proven false. It would take a design that would face some ethical and recruitment challenges. I'd say a thoughtful analysis of observational data would be a more likely/efficient approach.
This one kind of gets a start on the topic. But is a narrative review rather than a causal model.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/
For children & probably most adults, I’d hold off on hormone Thearpy as it permanently alters a child’s body in it’s ability to reproduce, produce breast milk, change their voice, along with a host of other negative side effects.
Just because something is beneficial in one sense (a mood which is flippant) doesn’t mean it outweighs the cost in another (permanently altering the mind and body)
That’s just me though I guess
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03-05-2024, 10:38 AM
#753
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Still dunno why you have to pivot to children.
You are still under the belief that hormone Thearpy is the solution to simply improve mood without looking at the costs I guess. sad.
For children & probably most adults, I’d hold off on hormone Thearpy as it permanently alters a child’s body in it’s ability to reproduce, produce breast milk, change their voice, along with a host of other negative side effects.
Just because something is beneficial in one sense (a mood which is flippant) doesn’t mean it outweighs the cost in another (permanently altering the mind and body)
That’s just me though I guess
For children & probably most adults, I’d hold off on hormone Thearpy as it permanently alters a child’s body in it’s ability to reproduce, produce breast milk, change their voice, along with a host of other negative side effects.
Just because something is beneficial in one sense (a mood which is flippant) doesn’t mean it outweighs the cost in another (permanently altering the mind and body)
That’s just me though I guess
You're an adult on hormone therapy but think others should hold off? Which negative effects would be problematic for others, but not for you?
Why should others not have access to effective treatments/therapies?
The paper I shared reviewed studies that included only surgery.
03-05-2024, 10:43 AM
#754
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
The OP has to deal with children
Still dunno why you have to pivot to children.
You're an adult on hormone therapy but think others should hold off? Which negative effects would be problematic for others, but not for you?
Why should others not have access to effective treatments/therapies?
The paper I shared reviewed studies that included only surgery.
You're an adult on hormone therapy but think others should hold off? Which negative effects would be problematic for others, but not for you?
Why should others not have access to effective treatments/therapies?
The paper I shared reviewed studies that included only surgery.
Who is pivoting??
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03-05-2024, 10:46 AM
#755
Op justifying his sickness yet again.
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03-05-2024, 10:50 AM
#756
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
The op is about p3dophilia, specifically the current fear.
The OP has to deal with children
Who is pivoting??
Who is pivoting??
Are children with gender dysphoria p3dophiles?
03-05-2024, 11:17 AM
#757
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I should hope not, but the OP has to deal with gender, children, & P3do’s..not limited.
The op is about p3dophilia, specifically the current fear.
Are children with gender dysphoria p3dophiles?
Are children with gender dysphoria p3dophiles?
I Guess if you need more clarification on the matter, I don’t believe “gender changing” operations should be performed on children nor should they be placed on hormone Thearpy.
As for adults, I feel the same but adults are free to do as they choose, but I should hope we agree that they should not be influencing children to permanently alter their body.
If you are going to argue why is it okay for me, but not for others, most males are not using it to such a degree or are looking to alter their body in as much to changes “gender”
Think of it like ivermectin, it’s okay to use as an antiviral..just as long as it’s not for Covid..right??
One drug..different applications
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03-05-2024, 11:21 AM
#758
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
But the serum targets are the same as for men and women on HRT.
I should hope not, but the OP has to deal with gender, children, & P3do’s..not limited.
I Guess if you need more clarification on the matter, I don’t believe “gender changing” operations should be performed on children nor should they be placed on hormone Thearpy.
As for adults, I feel the same but adults are free to do as they choose, but I should hope we agree that they should not be influencing children to permanently alter their body.
If you are going to argue why is it okay for me, but not for others, most males are not using it to such a degree or are looking to alter their body in as much to changes “gender”
Think of it like ivermectin, it’s okay to use as an antiviral..just as long as it’s not for Covid..right??
One drug..different applications
I Guess if you need more clarification on the matter, I don’t believe “gender changing” operations should be performed on children nor should they be placed on hormone Thearpy.
As for adults, I feel the same but adults are free to do as they choose, but I should hope we agree that they should not be influencing children to permanently alter their body.
If you are going to argue why is it okay for me, but not for others, most males are not using it to such a degree or are looking to alter their body in as much to changes “gender”
Think of it like ivermectin, it’s okay to use as an antiviral..just as long as it’s not for Covid..right??
One drug..different applications
03-05-2024, 11:22 AM
#759
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Concerning what??
But the serum targets are the same as for men and women on HRT.
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03-05-2024, 11:27 AM
#760
Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
Dam dude you were able to get 26 pages out of a" don't call me names that do not apply"thread.
I don't know why this paedo-panic has taken off, but it's a symptom of people refusing to think in anything other than black and white and using extreme language. A way to dismiss someone with an opposing opinion via extremist thinking: Everyone who criticizes women is sexist, anyone with a different opinion is gaslighting, anyone with opposite politics is racist, phobic, fascist etc. Unattractive man =paedo, any woman who disapproves= Karen.
I think the origins come from the Epstein case, where only Epstein himself was held accountable and this fosters feelings of futility and helplessness. The paedo-panic seems to be an exclusive right-wing phenomenon who lack a moral ground now they've descended into fascism. So they cling to paedophile boogeymen to feel morally superior because it's really all they have left.
Also a convenient way to hatemonger about same sex relationships and push LGBT hate, too. To further their political agenda they invent crazy narratives to scare people.
They did this in the 80s with the gay and AIDS panic and the Satanic panic of course. But doesn't the incessant squealing and labelling everyone a paedophile just leave you with Boy who cried wolf, where actual victims get ignored and people with padeophilic tendencies won't seek help before they actually offend?
Do the right-wing just accuse everyone of being paedophiles because it's an extremely difficult thing to nuance and an easy to demonize the outgroup whilst validating the in group?
In b4 "OP is a paedo".
I think the origins come from the Epstein case, where only Epstein himself was held accountable and this fosters feelings of futility and helplessness. The paedo-panic seems to be an exclusive right-wing phenomenon who lack a moral ground now they've descended into fascism. So they cling to paedophile boogeymen to feel morally superior because it's really all they have left.
Also a convenient way to hatemonger about same sex relationships and push LGBT hate, too. To further their political agenda they invent crazy narratives to scare people.
They did this in the 80s with the gay and AIDS panic and the Satanic panic of course. But doesn't the incessant squealing and labelling everyone a paedophile just leave you with Boy who cried wolf, where actual victims get ignored and people with padeophilic tendencies won't seek help before they actually offend?
Do the right-wing just accuse everyone of being paedophiles because it's an extremely difficult thing to nuance and an easy to demonize the outgroup whilst validating the in group?
In b4 "OP is a paedo".
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03-05-2024, 11:29 AM
#761
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Estradiol and testosterone.
Concerning what??
03-05-2024, 11:29 AM
#762
Originally Posted By x-trainer ben⏩
That’s just his autism. Things have to be repeated over & over again before it registers..unfortunately, that rarely if ever happens.
Dam dude you were able to get 26 pages out of a" don't call me names that do not apply"thread.
Sad
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03-05-2024, 11:30 AM
#763
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Estradiol and testosterone.
In regard to whom?
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03-05-2024, 11:31 AM
#764
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
That’s just his autism. Things have to be repeated over & over again before it registers..unfortunately, that rarely if ever happens.
Sad
Sad
03-05-2024, 01:03 PM
#766
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
So gender affirming care, for those as young as three, is acceptable to you?
Nope.
I said the the vast majority of the literature presented in this thread supports the claim that gender affirming care can improve mental health for those with gender dysphoria.
Everyone now seems to agree.
I said the claims that gender dysphoria is caused by mothers has not been supported.
I also said the claim the gender dysphoria and homosexuality are caused by events during adolescence is unsupported.
I said the the vast majority of the literature presented in this thread supports the claim that gender affirming care can improve mental health for those with gender dysphoria.
Everyone now seems to agree.
I said the claims that gender dysphoria is caused by mothers has not been supported.
I also said the claim the gender dysphoria and homosexuality are caused by events during adolescence is unsupported.
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03-05-2024, 01:04 PM
#767
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Notice how Benny doesn't have an opinion…..
That’s just his autism. Things have to be repeated over & over again before it registers..unfortunately, that rarely if ever happens.
Sad
Sad
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03-05-2024, 01:05 PM
#768
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
You think a pre teen female should be taking testosterone???
Still dunno why you have to pivot to children.
You're an adult on hormone therapy but think others should hold off? Which negative effects would be problematic for others, but not for you?
Why should others not have access to effective treatments/therapies?
The paper I shared reviewed studies that included only surgery.
You're an adult on hormone therapy but think others should hold off? Which negative effects would be problematic for others, but not for you?
Why should others not have access to effective treatments/therapies?
The paper I shared reviewed studies that included only surgery.
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03-05-2024, 01:29 PM
#769
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Where do you get that idea?
So gender affirming care, for those as young as three, is acceptable to you?
03-05-2024, 01:50 PM
#770
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
In regards to transitioning or raising to build muscle?
Men and women on HRT
What is your argument here..be specific
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03-05-2024, 01:55 PM
#771
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03-05-2024, 02:18 PM
#772
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Target serum levels for estradiol and test are the same for HRT and therapy for gender dysphoria.
In regards to transitioning or raising to build muscle?
What is your argument here..be specific
What is your argument here..be specific
03-05-2024, 02:57 PM
#773
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
What difference does that make?
Target serum levels for estradiol and test are the same for HRT and therapy for gender dysphoria.
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03-05-2024, 02:59 PM
#774
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
There is no difference. That's the point
What difference does that make?
03-05-2024, 03:02 PM
#775
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
But there is, we see the dangers of higher test in women & higher estrogen in men…
There is no difference. That's the point
Again, same drug different applications & the side effects are going to be completely different depending on the sex.
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03-05-2024, 03:03 PM
#776
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
The targets are the same.
But there is, we see the dangers of higher test in women & higher estrogen in men…
Again, same drug different applications & the side effects are going to be completely different depending on the sex.
Again, same drug different applications & the side effects are going to be completely different depending on the sex.
03-05-2024, 03:24 PM
#777
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
But the sex is different…
The targets are the same.
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03-05-2024, 03:31 PM
#778
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Indeed.
But the sex is different…
To paraphrase the arguments put forth:
"Of course hormone therapy works because testosterone is an antidepressant in both men and women.
The recommended serum levels of estradiol and testosterone are the same for those prescribed hormones for gender dysphoria as for those who are prescribed hormones for HRT.
Those with gender dysphoria shouldn't receive hormones that will improve mental health because reasons."
03-05-2024, 04:47 PM
#779
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
No.. because test effects women & children differently especially at levels used for fully developed males lol
Indeed.
To paraphrase the arguments put forth:
"Of course hormone therapy works because testosterone is an antidepressant in both men and women.
The recommended serum levels of estradiol and testosterone are the same for those prescribed hormones for gender dysphoria as for those who are prescribed hormones for HRT.
Those with gender dysphoria shouldn't receive hormones that will improve mental health because reasons."
To paraphrase the arguments put forth:
"Of course hormone therapy works because testosterone is an antidepressant in both men and women.
The recommended serum levels of estradiol and testosterone are the same for those prescribed hormones for gender dysphoria as for those who are prescribed hormones for HRT.
Those with gender dysphoria shouldn't receive hormones that will improve mental health because reasons."
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03-05-2024, 04:59 PM
#780
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
I dunno
No.. because test effects women & children differently especially at levels used for fully developed males lol
The literature suggests very similar risk profiles for GAHT and HRT.
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