Huh?

..I argued the “benefit” of surgery was false..as being on hormone Thearpy showed to alter mood/emotional state.

Ahh!

My bad.

I guess it's good that most with gender dysphoria start with hormones and usually have that as the only medical therapy.

That said, I question whether surgery being of benefit has been proven false. It would take a design that would face some ethical and recruitment challenges. I'd say a thoughtful analysis of observational data would be a more likely/efficient approach.

This one kind of gets a start on the topic. But is a narrative review rather than a causal model.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/

You are still under the belief that hormone Thearpy is the solution to simply improve mood without looking at the costs I guess. sad.
For children & probably most adults, I’d hold off on hormone Thearpy as it permanently alters a child’s body in it’s ability to reproduce, produce breast milk, change their voice, along with a host of other negative side effects.

Just because something is beneficial in one sense (a mood which is flippant) doesn’t mean it outweighs the cost in another (permanently altering the mind and body)

That’s just me though I guess

Still dunno why you have to pivot to children.

You're an adult on hormone therapy but think others should hold off? Which negative effects would be problematic for others, but not for you?

Why should others not have access to effective treatments/therapies?

The paper I shared reviewed studies that included only surgery.

The OP has to deal with children

Who is pivoting??

The op is about p3dophilia, specifically the current fear.

Are children with gender dysphoria p3dophiles?

I should hope not, but the OP has to deal with gender, children, & P3do’s..not limited.


I Guess if you need more clarification on the matter, I don’t believe “gender changing” operations should be performed on children nor should they be placed on hormone Thearpy.

As for adults, I feel the same but adults are free to do as they choose, but I should hope we agree that they should not be influencing children to permanently alter their body.

If you are going to argue why is it okay for me, but not for others, most males are not using it to such a degree or are looking to alter their body in as much to changes “gender”

Think of it like ivermectin, it’s okay to use as an antiviral..just as long as it’s not for Covid..right??

One drug..different applications

But the serum targets are the same as for men and women on HRT.

I don't know why this paedo-panic has taken off, but it's a symptom of people refusing to think in anything other than black and white and using extreme language. A way to dismiss someone with an opposing opinion via extremist thinking: Everyone who criticizes women is sexist, anyone with a different opinion is gaslighting, anyone with opposite politics is racist, phobic, fascist etc. Unattractive man =paedo, any woman who disapproves= Karen.


I think the origins come from the Epstein case, where only Epstein himself was held accountable and this fosters feelings of futility and helplessness. The paedo-panic seems to be an exclusive right-wing phenomenon who lack a moral ground now they've descended into fascism. So they cling to paedophile boogeymen to feel morally superior because it's really all they have left.


Also a convenient way to hatemonger about same sex relationships and push LGBT hate, too. To further their political agenda they invent crazy narratives to scare people.

They did this in the 80s with the gay and AIDS panic and the Satanic panic of course. But doesn't the incessant squealing and labelling everyone a paedophile just leave you with Boy who cried wolf, where actual victims get ignored and people with padeophilic tendencies won't seek help before they actually offend?

Do the right-wing just accuse everyone of being paedophiles because it's an extremely difficult thing to nuance and an easy to demonize the outgroup whilst validating the in group?


In b4 "OP is a paedo".

Concerning what??

Dam dude you were able to get 26 pages out of a" don't call me names that do not apply"thread.

Estradiol and testosterone.

That’s just his autism. Things have to be repeated over & over again before it registers..unfortunately, that rarely if ever happens.

Sad

In regard to whom?

Nope.

I said the the vast majority of the literature presented in this thread supports the claim that gender affirming care can improve mental health for those with gender dysphoria.

Everyone now seems to agree.

I said the claims that gender dysphoria is caused by mothers has not been supported.

I also said the claim the gender dysphoria and homosexuality are caused by events during adolescence is unsupported.

That’s just his autism. Things have to be repeated over & over again before it registers..unfortunately, that rarely if ever happens.

Sad

Still dunno why you have to pivot to children.

You're an adult on hormone therapy but think others should hold off? Which negative effects would be problematic for others, but not for you?

Why should others not have access to effective treatments/therapies?

The paper I shared reviewed studies that included only surgery.

So gender affirming care, for those as young as three, is acceptable to you?

Men and women on HRT

In regards to transitioning or raising to build muscle?

What is your argument here..be specific

Target serum levels for estradiol and test are the same for HRT and therapy for gender dysphoria.

What difference does that make?

There is no difference. That's the point

But there is, we see the dangers of higher test in women & higher estrogen in men…

Again, same drug different applications & the side effects are going to be completely different depending on the sex.

The targets are the same.

But the sex is different…

Indeed.


To paraphrase the arguments put forth:

"Of course hormone therapy works because testosterone is an antidepressant in both men and women.

The recommended serum levels of estradiol and testosterone are the same for those prescribed hormones for gender dysphoria as for those who are prescribed hormones for HRT.

Those with gender dysphoria shouldn't receive hormones that will improve mental health because reasons."

No.. because test effects women & children differently especially at levels used for fully developed males lol