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Forum » Conspiracy theories, the bible and idiots
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Thread: Conspiracy theories, the bible and idiots

post 1586608631 08-24-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
^^^ more dime store psychology rants.


no substance, no facts, no actual challenges to the Scripture or faith system.
Do I have to do some science experiment to disprove a talking bush?

I ask you where's the logic in a talking bush and your only answer is "God".

When you can't logically explain something that's your answer.

You wanna call out others for not using proper logic but then when you're guilty of it we're supposed to sweep it under the rug.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1586608651 08-24-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
i.e. there were SEVERAL copies of Exodus found. And SOME of those had some variations in content and language. But the other copies ofExodus did not and were exactly the same as what we have today.

So, the Masoretes people who preserved these texts had many copies of it.. and some of the copies were perfectly translated, and other copies had some differences in a couple of books.


AKA, human error on some copies, bible still preserved in tact with other copies, no issue.
This is not true (bolded). Also, the differences are often in content, not mere language. Not to mention even modern translations differ from each other. Lol. What a strange mess.
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post 1586608791 08-24-2019, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
This is not true (bolded). Also, the differences are often in content, not mere language. Not to mention even modern translations differ from each other. Lol. What a strange mess.
It is true.

The Dead Sea Scrolls contain several copies of the texts. It's not just one copy.


You're harping on about the human error found in SOME copies of Exodus, but ignoring the perfectly accurate other copies of Exodus.
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post 1586608991 08-24-2019, 06:11 PM
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Austin 3:16 says i just whipped your ass
post 1586609161 08-24-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
It is true.

The Dead Sea Scrolls contain several copies of the texts. It's not just one copy.


You're harping on about the human error found in SOME copies of Exodus, but ignoring the perfectly accurate other copies of Exodus.
Did you even read the part I bolded? Never said anything about there not being more than 1 copy of a text.....

We have a mess of texts that are different in not just language, but content, and certainly not the same as modern translations......but CalmWind wants to argue the text is UNCHANGED throughout its history. Just Lol. What a disaster, that really backfired.

The NT just gets worse with various interpolations.....

Also, in your previous post where you "finished" my quote, this was not finishing my quote...talk about dishonesty- you were quoting an entirely different source, some book from 1964. I stand by the quote I suppliedfrom your very own link.
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post 1586609191 08-24-2019, 06:17 PM
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Here is an example of the variation of "content and language" in one of the copies that "differs".


----------------
Canonized Text :

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of thechildren of Israel.
9 For the Lord’s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.



One of the copies of the Dead Sea Scrolls that differs, reads:

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of thesons of God.
9 For the Lord’s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

-----------


literally, the only difference is the words "children of israel" translated as "sons of God"

the rest of this passage is the same. This example amounts to human error in translation in that copy.


Good thing we found several copies of the texts, and had accurate translations in those.
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post 1586609331 08-24-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
Here is an example of the variation of "content and language" in one of the copies that "differs".


----------------
Canonized Text :

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of thechildren of Israel.
9 For the Lord’s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.



One of the copies of the Dead Sea Scrolls that differs, reads:

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of thesons of God.
9 For the Lord’s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

-----------


literally, the only difference is the words "children of israel" translated as "sons of God"

the rest is the same.

Human error in translation.

Good thing we found several copies of the texts, and had accurate translations in those.
No one cares, it's useless arguing with someone who is oblivious to the entire field of higher criticism regarding his own scriptures. So weird why there is a lack of interest to understand how the biblical textsreallyoriginated (and yes, evolved). It's a fear of embarrassment. And of the all-too obvious mark of mere man in these writings. Waste of time debating.
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post 1586609671 08-24-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
No one cares, it's useless arguing with someone who is oblivious to the entire field of higher criticism regarding his own scriptures. So weird why there is a lack of interest to understand how the biblical textsreallyoriginated (and yes, evolved). It's a fear of embarrassment. And of the all-too obvious mark of mere man in these writings. Waste of time debating.
Leave him bro, he's got "faith".
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1586609691 08-24-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
And of the all-too obvious mark of mere man in these writings.
The Bible never claimed to be written by God himself, or to be written while in a trance.

It was written by men that God chose. This is seen when Paul is writing a letter, and says something like (paraphrased) "Oh yeah, I forgot about something, I have something else to say" ...




You have the classic case of misunderstanding the very thing you are criticizing. And clearly, you don't want to accept the fact that the Bible has remained faithfully preserved over many thousands of years.
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post 1586609901 08-24-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
The Bible never claimed to be written by God himself, or to be written while in a trance.

It was written by men that God chose. This is seen when Paul is writing a letter, and says something like (paraphrased) "Oh yeah, I forgot about something, I have something else to say" ...




You have the classic case of misunderstanding the very thing you are criticizing. And clearly, you don't want to accept the fact that the Bible has remained faithfully preserved over many thousands of years.
Many Christians believe the Bible is divinely-inspired. This is the part that is under severe doubt when I used the term "mark of man". You can keep living in la-la land, ignoring all contemporary research from higher criticism, but it won't get you far in any kind of search for real truth regarding these books, sorry.

An aside: simply saying things like "the Bible is completely unchanged over its history"....doesn't make it true lol. Here's an example: "I just saw an ant that was bigger than the planet Jupiter", etc.
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post 1586610031 08-24-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
Leave him bro, he's got "faith".
I have more than that.

I have a joy and peace in my heart that you will never have until you drop the baggage you are carrying and get to know the Creator.

I have a relationship with God, and he answers my prayers. I've had supernatural things happen to me, from both sides.


If you ever want to cure your depression and fill that empty hole in your heart.. look for the true purpose of why you were created and why this whole place even exists.
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post 1586610141 08-24-2019, 06:36 PM
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#72
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
Many Christians believe the Bible is divinely-inspired. This is the part that is under severe doubt when I used the term "mark of man". You can keep living in la-la land, ignoring all contemporary research from higher criticism, but it won't get you far in any kind of search for real truth regarding these books, sorry.

An aside: simply saying things like "the Bible is completely unchanged over its history"....doesn't make it true lol. Here's an example: "I just saw an ant that was bigger than the planet Jupiter", etc.
All I need to do is point to the Dead Sea Scrolls having accurate translations of the copies of the Bible we have today.

Whether or not some other copies have slight differences, is irrelevant.

Because the other copies have the correct translations and that's all we need to prove it..


that's like, today I can go to the store and find 10 different translations of the Bible, using different words and language. Doesn't mean anything.
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post 1586610201 08-24-2019, 06:37 PM
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Thing is I'm not depressed at all.

I believe that God is alive inside of me, just like he is in everyone else.

I don't need to go to church to show thanks, or read a book that tells me what to think.

I go out and live my life to the fullest, I take care of myself as best I can, try to help others when I can, etc.

That's how I personally show God my being thankful for the gift of life.

I also realize that many others aren't in my position, some are better, most are worse.

That's part of the reason why I try to make the most of my time, and legit feel bad when I waste it.

Not everybody is, was, or have been afforded the opportunities that I have.

I don't need to be found because I was never lost.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1586610341 08-24-2019, 06:40 PM
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Now do the Quran OP
“That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.” - The Nameless City by HP Lovecraft
"The higher the prevalence of infectious diseases the higher the probability of totalitarian political attitudes."
-Dr. Jordan Peterson Sept 2017
"The search for a moral equivalent of war continues to define American Liberalism to this day."
post 1586610461 08-24-2019, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
All I need to do is point to the Dead Sea Scrolls having accurate translations of the copies of the Bible we have today.

Whether or not some other copies have slight differences, is irrelevant.

Because the other copies have the correct translations and that's all we need to prove it..


that's like, today I can go to the store and find 10 different translations of the Bible, using different words and language. Doesn't mean anything.
Actually it does mean something, when there is difference in content. For example, in some of those modern translations you will find specific trinitarian language, and some you don't (this is a very important difference affecting basic theology)....

And no, the Dead Sea Scrolls do not provide evidence for a completely unchanged text, sorry. Remember, simply saying things doesn't mean it's correct. Anyone can say anything. Please see the above quote again, since you are ignoring it.

Since you aren't worth my time to debate, being oblivious to historical criticism and contemporary biblical research I will leave with you something we do know from basic science:

Flowering plants originated way after the sun (a couple hundred million years ago vs 4.5ish billion years ago for the sun), and Genesis is simply wrong saying they somehow "preceded the sun". Nuff said.
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post 1586611031 08-24-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
Actually it does mean something, when there is difference in content. For example, in some of those modern translations you will find specific trinitarian language, and some you don't (this is a very important difference affecting basic theology)....

And no, the Dead Sea Scrolls do not provide evidence for a completely unchanged text, sorry. Remember, simply saying things doesn't mean it's correct. Anyone can say anything. Please see the above quote again, since you are ignoring it.

Since you aren't worth my time to debate, being oblivious to historical criticism and contemporary biblical research I will leave with you something we do know from basic science:

Flowering plants originated way after the sun (a couple hundred million years ago vs 4.5ish billion years ago for the sun), and Genesis is simply wrong saying they somehow "preceded the sun". Nuff said.
They were God flowers bro.

God made it so flowers didn't need the sun.

Then one day he decided that they did need the sun.

But he forgot to tell his chosen scribes to go back and edit the scriptures.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1586612131 08-24-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
I have more than that.

I have a joy and peace in my heart that you will never have until you drop the baggage you are carrying and get to know the Creator.

I have a relationship with God, and he answers my prayers. I've had supernatural things happen to me, from both sides.


If you ever want to cure your depression and fill that empty hole in your heart.. look for the true purpose of why you were created and why this whole place even exists.
If you look for religion and God through logic and science you will be very disappointed, if you try and have "faith" and look for true purpose and nothing comes then you're chit out of luck as well.. Guess God only answers prayers of special people like you and the rest of us can get fuked if he is real for some reason lol
post 1586612931 08-24-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted By SwimToTheMoon⏩
If you look for religion and God through logic and science you will be very disappointed, if you try and have "faith" and look for true purpose and nothing comes then you're chit out of luck as well.. Guess God only answers prayers of special people like you and the rest of us can get fuked if he is real for some reason lol
God never answered my prayers when I wasn't serious.

I went through years of God practically being silent with me.

Until one night, I was really frustrated and my heart really sought to follow God... and I prayed really hard and unloaded all of my frustrations in a 2 hour prayer, just me and God.

He answered me 6 hours later.


Looking back, the reason I wasn't being answered was because of me. I was asking for the wrong things, I was selfish, I was preoccupied with the things of this world and not of God. I didn't really want to know God, I just wanted God to do things for me.


Once my heart changed, God answered.
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post 1586613361 08-24-2019, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
What I've noticed is they think everything is prophecy being fulfilled when it's actually people making those "prophecies" happen.

Like Illuminati wrote the bible almost as a checklist of their intentions, but when those things happen the idiots think it's God's will.


Edit: If only there were an R&P section for these posts?
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post 1586625291 08-24-2019, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
Until one night, I was really frustrated and my heart really sought to follow God... and I prayed really hard and unloaded all of my frustrations in a 2 hour prayer, just me and God.
So you had a really good wank over god?
post 1586625461 08-24-2019, 11:45 PM
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The Bible is a fairy tale. Written by men at a time when writing a novel about a guy with superpowers chosen by the divine to save humanity wasn’t encouraged by capitalism.

Surprised so many people are still indoctrinated by it to this day
post 1586625531 08-24-2019, 11:46 PM
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a group of kids make fun of a prophet for being bald then god sends a bear to eat them
post 1586639461 08-25-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted By quadfecta⏩
The Bible is a fairy tale. Written by men at a time when writing a novel about a guy with superpowers chosen by the divine to save humanity wasn’t encouraged by capitalism.

Surprised so many people are still indoctrinated by it to this day
It was made to pacify the have-nots, among other things.

Still serves that purpose today.

Christianity is an industry.

Books, clothes, trinkets, etc it's a billion dollar industry.

It was an industry 1000's of years ago.

Maybe it was encouraged by capitalism then retold in a way that makes it seem like it wasn't.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1586639621 08-25-2019, 09:05 AM
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Illuminati wrote the bible even though it exposes them..

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. - Ephesians 6:12

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you. - Revelation 3:9
post 1586639941 08-25-2019, 09:14 AM
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OP is a cocksucking idiot.

Go out for a long walk you stupid bitch.
fist yourself
post 1586640821 08-25-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
I've noticed that deeply religious Christians tend to not be interested in (or even have disdain for) higher criticism- the research into how the books of the Bible actually came to be and their historical contexts. Presumably because of some of the rather embarrassing results that have turned up in this field. So like you are saying, there is so much investment in it, may as well just ignore historical criticism and only stick to intra-Bible passages for "truth".
There are plenty of New Testament scholars, who are still Christians.

There are a number of well selling books, providing for laymen Christians examining cultural context of the old testament (e.g. Rob Bell's stuff).

There are books (and talks) that examine about the issues of translation, and how translations are shaped by the cultural context of the interpreters.

Maybe you are talking about literalist/creationist Christians, avoiding critical examination?

That kind of critical examination is pretty standard to seminary training or religious scholarship, BTW.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
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The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1586642091 08-25-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted By SwimToTheMoon⏩
If you look for religion and God through logic and science you will be very disappointed,
I don't think so.

What I have seen is that Atheist - speaking as a former outspoken Atheist, who regularly used to debate religious people and be a big fan of the '4 horsemen' - is that Atheists IME go for the long hanging fruit... They attack the literalist/Creationist 'fire and brimestone Christianity', and the deductive 'proofs of God' - which IME are pretty easy to dismantle.

Atheists are normally - I've never actually seen an exception to this first hand, when speaking to an Atheist - not aware of the diversity within Christian Theology, and that their various criticisms regarding; New Testament manuscripts, The nature of Jesus - Christology, LGBT issues, Christian attitudes towards sex, The theory of evolution, etc, tend to have a variety of 'answers' if they actually looked into the discussions that Christian theologians have.

Most aimed their criticisms at one Christian perspective, and think that perspective they are aiming criticism at is 'the' perspective.

Not only that, very few have looked into the phenomenon of Veridical Near Death Experiences, which is people who are verified to have described medical procedures and identified the medical staff who carried them out, whilst being clinically dead.

There is arguably a logic based case - via abductive reasoning - providing plausibility for Christian theism - or simply Theism, but it requires personal research.

But IME - honestly, without being facetious - very few Atheists, I've known are willing to do the reading/research into Christian Theology or Near Death Experiences. Which is OK, if they didn't then simultaneously state that there are no good reasons for believing in Theism - just because you may not seriously attempt to find any, doesn't mean that they don't exist.
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post 1586643831 08-25-2019, 10:41 AM
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#88
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
I don't think so.

What I have seen is that Atheist - speaking as a former outspoken Atheist, who regularly used to debate religious people and be a big fan of the '4 horsemen' - is that Atheists IME go for the long hanging fruit... They attack the literalist/Creationist 'fire and brimestone Christianity', and the deductive 'proofs of God' - which IME are pretty easy to dismantle.

Atheists are normally - I've never actually seen an exception to this first hand, when speaking to an Atheist - not aware of the diversity within Christian Theology, and that their various criticisms regarding; New Testament manuscripts, The nature of Jesus - Christology, LGBT issues, Christian attitudes towards sex, The theory of evolution, etc, tend to have a variety of 'answers' if they actually looked into the discussions that Christian theologians have.

Most aimed their criticisms at one Christian perspective, and think that perspective they are aiming criticism at is 'the' perspective.

Not only that, very few have looked into the phenomenon of Veridical Near Death Experiences, which is people who are verified to have described medical procedures and identified the medical staff who carried them out, whilst being clinically dead.

There is arguably a logic based case - via abductive reasoning - providing plausibility for Christian theism - or simply Theism, but it requires personal research.

But IME - honestly, without being facetious - very few Atheists, I've known are willing to do the reading/research into Christian Theology or Near Death Experiences. Which is OK, if they didn't then simultaneously state that there are no good reasons for believing in Theism - just because you may not seriously attempt to find any, doesn't mean that they don't exist.
As someone who doesn't class themselve as atheist, but I'm sure many would call me that, all I ask for is proof that God exists.

Just show me some absolute concrete evidence that the Christian god is the real god of this dimension and the Bible is the book he wants us to follow.

Not some half assed scroll that can be interpreted and manipulated. Some actual proof.

And the Bible is not proof as there are many inconsistencies already in the Bible.

Any evidence of God?
post 1586645741 08-25-2019, 11:21 AM
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#89
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Originally Posted By MiniManletBrah⏩
And the Bible is not proof as there are many inconsistencies already in the Bible.

Any evidence of God?
I can't offer proof. (Not even science deals in proofs or absolute evidence, FWIW. Only math deals in proofs. If you think I'm lying... Please do more research into the philosophy of science.)

I can offer some intersubjectively verifiable things to research.

1) Veridical Near Death Experiences.

2) The Historicity of Jesus.

3) The Reliability of the Gospels. (The Gospels =/= The Bible.)

All 3 combined, I think can a plausible case for belief in Christian Theism (though not necessarily a compelling case).

Maybe you've done research into these things?
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post 1586645851 08-25-2019, 11:22 AM
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