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Forum » Any brahs considering converting to Islam?
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Thread: Any brahs considering converting to Islam?

post 1630142093 01-30-2021, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted By sickkentbrah⏩
islam is both a creed and community?

now youre just making up stuff as you go kiddo
It literally is.

The Ummah is the muslim community. It's a community of the followers of Islam.
because theres 15 branches of Christianity based on their "community, creed and interpretation" of the religion
So?

There are multiple sects of Islam.

Do you think I'm Christian?
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post 1630142133 01-30-2021, 07:27 PM
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Violence

Does the Quran really contain over a hundred verses that sanction violence?

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p.../violence.aspx
post 1630142163 01-30-2021, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
That kind of dismissal of the problems within the Islamic community is very common, IME.

Islam is both a creed and community, they influence one another.
I agree in someway, people are very corrupt. I don't look at people, rather I read what's in scripture.
In Islam, if someone is Muslim and practices and is a good person overall, it's actually encourage that you marry them regardless of race.
The issue I think is, people are the idiots who think my children should remain within my country and only marry within. This is actually oppression in Islam...if you had a child who wants to marry someone who isn't from their culture, and the parents say no, then for sure God will question the parents on it.
The religion is very clear on that.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1630142663 01-30-2021, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
I agree in someway, people are very corrupt. I don't look at people, rather I read what's in scripture.
My best friend is muslim, and he says that the best argument against Islam is the muslim community.

If the religion is so great, moral, and a spiritual healing for humanity's ills, why don't muslims follow it and why don't we see that it muslim majority countries?

The leaders appear to be failing to lead the community, and muslims (in my experience) prefer to talk about Islam than practice it. I sometimes used to be the only one sometimes in my group of muslim friends who would pray, look at the ground when women pass, avoid crude talk, etc.

I'll be blunt, whenever muslims on this site talk about how great Islam is, I always think "So why don't you follow it?" Because we both know that being on this site and looking at the awrah, and reading sexually explicit talk is haram.
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post 1630143293 01-30-2021, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
My best friend is muslim, and he says that the best argument against Islam is the muslim community.
I think you're correct on this. Muslims probably have the most misunderstanding on their religion. But for me to go bash people, that's incorrect.

Because when you live in a degen society, temptations are there man. You're acting like just because I'm xyz, then I'm all of a sudden immune to temptations out there. We're all human and have natural desires. That's the whole idea of life...to strive for what God says and not fall into unlawful temptations. We are all human - everyone likes the feeling of having sex, drinking, etc...You're saying why is it hard to avoid that?

No brah, I appreciate what you're saying. At least you've given some response. This is the beautiful thing about it...if you turn back to God, he simply forgives you. But look also at the justice...if you wronged a human, you must make it right with them. Whatever is between you and God, that's forgiven. However, you still need to make it right with any human. I'm not perfect...never claimed that.

Are you religious? So when you made the claim of the last sentence, where is that coming from? Where do your morals come from? Are you Christian? Atheist?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1630143723 01-30-2021, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
I think you're correct on this. Muslims probably have the most misunderstanding on their religion. But for me to go bash people, that's incorrect.
Where did I 'bash' people?

This thread is about Islam potentially being a solution to the spiritual/ethical problems of western society, and I'm criticizing that notion.
Because when you live in a degen society, temptations are there man. That's the whole idea of life...to strive for what God says and not fall into unlawful temptations. We are all human - everyone likes the feeling of having sex, drinking, etc...You're saying why is it hard to avoid that?
Muslims in the west can move to muslim majority countries if they find Western society too tempting. What is more important, spiritual well being or whatever is keeping them living in the West?

Also, even in muslim majority countries there are serious problems ethically (E.g. sexual assaults rampant even in Hijabi countries like Egypt, labourers treated like crap in gulf states, etc. So, why is Islam spiritually/ethically failing even those countries?
Are you religious? So when you made the claim of the last sentence, where is that coming from? Where do your morals come from? Are you Christian? Atheist?
Seems like a deflection to me, so I'm not going to answer.

This thread is about Islam being a cure or solution to the spiritual/ethical problems in Western society, and I'm saying if it is a spiritual/ethical solution, why don't we see that reflected in muslim communities and societies around the globe?

I have noticed that the common response is "on what basis can you talk about ethics, what is your ethical foundation?" IMO that is likely an attempt at deflecting into a philosophical debate about ethics.
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post 1630144083 01-30-2021, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Where did I 'bash' people?

This thread is about Islam potentially being a solution to the spiritual/ethical problems of western society, and I'm criticizing that notion.



Muslim in the west can move to muslim majority countries if they find Western society too tempting. What is more important, spiritual well being or whatever is keeping them living in the West?

Also, even in muslim majority countries there are serious problems ethically (E.g. sexual assaults rampant even in Hijabi countries like Egypt, labourers treated like crap in gulf states, etc. So, why is Islam spiritually failing even those countries?



Seems like a deflection to me, so I'm not going to answer.

This thread is about Islam being a cure or solution to the spiritual/ethical problems in Western society, and I'm saying if it is a spiritual/ethical solution, why don't we see that reflected in muslim communities and societies around the globe?

I have noticed that the common response is "on what basis can you talk about ethics, what is your ethical foundation"?
Of course I do. If I ask you why it's wrong for you to sleep with your mother...and your morals come from society...what if a society says that its permissible? Then what? How can you claim your morals are any better than theirs? You have no leg to stand on. What is happening in the western world is they have a master-slave mentality. If the western world changes their morals and other societies don't comply, they call them backwards.

If you don't believe in something and I do, what's the point on arguing. That's not fruitful whatsoever. I know what I believe in and of course people ITT have their views and I must respect that. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone...just simply convey the message of Islam. I can't force Islam on anyone.

Is there a point on arguing which bedsheet color I should have when I don't have a bed? Instead, let's take a step back and ask firstly...is there a God? We start from there...then figure out if there is, then figure out which one is the correct one. If the root is not stable, then no point discussing the branches.

And something else - what are the issues you see in the Western world? I don't know what you mean on that.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1630144303 01-30-2021, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Instead, let's take a step back and ask firstly...is there a God? We start from there...then figure out if there is, then figure out which one is the correct one. If the root is not stable, then no point discussing the branches.
Complete deflection from the thread topic. You didn't address any of the points that I made.

If you want a debate about ethical philosophy, why don't you start another thread?
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post 1630144493 01-30-2021, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Complete deflection from the thread topic.

If you want a debate about ethical philosophy, why don't you start another thread?
No, we're here. You can PM me or just chat here. You keep saying I'm not answering...I need more context...what is the issues you see in the Western world firstly in your view? Thread title is about converting to Islam...and tbh I kinda skimmed it so maybe I missed what your question was brah.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1630144653 01-30-2021, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted By SimpIeJack⏩
So you're planning on being Muslim but still immersed in Western culture? That sounds like the worst of both worlds.
Its not that difficult. If you're a revert and having a hard time in western society then your heart truly isn't made for Islam and Allah.
post 1630144833 01-30-2021, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
No, we're here. You can PM me or just chat here.
We will derail the thread. I don't want to do that.

I'm not interested in an Islamic based debate about ethical philosophy, I've done that death and it leads nowhere IME.
I need more context...what is the issues you see in the Western world firstly in your view?
Broken families, lack of close-knit communities, low emotional intelligence, consumerism, materialism and lack of connection to nature, IMO are the main spiritual problems in western society.

Now you have the context, will you respond to my posts?
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post 1630145013 01-30-2021, 08:17 PM
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LOL @ people who believe Islam is a religion.
post 1630145053 01-30-2021, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
We will derail the thread. I don't want to do that.



Broken families, lack of close-knit communities, low emotionally intelligence, consumerism, and materialism IMO are the main spiritual problems in western society.

Now you have the context, will you respond to my posts.
Of course, I have nothing to hide.
And the claim that was made is that if you follow Islam, all this will go away correct? You simply won't have problems, correct?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1630145123 01-30-2021, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Of course, I have nothing to hide.
And the claim that was made is that if you follow Islam, all this will go away correct? You simply won't have problems, correct?
No.

Please re-read this...

https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1630143723
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post 1630145443 01-30-2021, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted By GordonXXX⏩
Violence

Does the Quran really contain over a hundred verses that sanction violence?

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p.../violence.aspx
There’s a diffrence between the disbeliever who wants to eradicate the religion of all prophets (Islam) kill muslims
and the disbeliever who doesn’t want to bother anyone

God doesn’t need our worship ,exalted is his majesty , we need him
Billions of angels pray to the lord every day .

God doesn’t need humans to fight for him he is the master of the universe he himself could wipe out every disbeliever with an illness or disease but he chooses not to
Because Allah is kind and generous , he doesn’t need to prove his mite , his amazing creation speaks for itself what his capabilities are , they all fear tigers and bears yet they are challenging the creator of tiger and bears .a lot people know deep down Islam is ithe truth but don’t want to accept it .

I believe My Lord is more disappointed more than anything.

Imagine you created a creation , gave them everything made there life a paradise for them ,cure them from illness all the time they fall ill , give them children/ family food shelter , love them and care for them , boast about them to the angels , watch them everyday thinking maybe one day they will turn to u be thankful to u ,acknowledge that you are there.

And Not only do they deny your existence but they are literally going to war with the only people who follow u (believe in you ) and are trying to destroy the religion that you custom made for them to save them. A religion that you made to better there lives so they can be close to u and so they can go to paradise eternal bliss and be saved from destruction hell in both this life and the after life .
.
Not only do they reject what you brought but they fight against it yet you gave them everything and still look after them , you created them .
You still feed them every night , allow them to wake up another day to spend with there family

Some have changed scripture to suit themselves ,others don’t dont believe and fight against your scripture then you have some who believe u and still rebel against your commands .

Its no wonder why the Lord is angry.
Any one else would have totally destroyed mankind for there selfishness and carelessness but God almighty still provides for you and your loved ones even tho you don’t believe and are against his religion/his laws he created
.God truly is the most kind and patient

I personally believe God is more disappointed than angry .
I’m a sinner I admit it I wont sit here ego tripping on my religious high horse, im a sinner
, man is a sinner we are all sinners ,only God is perfect

God deserves better
He truly does .no amount of prayers and praise could make it upto God almighty for what he’s done for all of us

All he’s asking is 5 prayers a day they take 7 minutes each prayer and dont be a scumbag is all he’s asking . To believe him ,acknowledge him and and he will help you through this life and the next life and grant you eternal paradise heaven the garden of Eden ,palaces everything
and if not this life then you will get big big rewards in next for suffering and being patient
.
If Anyone doesn’t want to believe it’s there choice
It doesn’t take God’s greatness away what so ever he’s doesnt need us

But to actively strive against Gods word the one whocreated you and seek to destroy his only true followers who actually obey his commands and scriptures ........
post 1630145573 01-30-2021, 08:26 PM
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Islam seems like the only way to have a wife now that Christianity has been killed and sjws wear its corpse as a skin suit. Shame about all the denial of reality and polygamy though. They'd be ok if their religious leaders didn't make claims on how the world works (though they are better than progressive priests in this respect) and they only allowed men to own one woman.
post 1630145623 01-30-2021, 08:27 PM
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I will convert only if ****liGirl agrees to marry me
post 1630146733 01-30-2021, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
No.

Please re-read this...

https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1630143723
So Muslims should go back to countries that have been destroyed by the US correct? When Muslims scholars were warning against Bin Laden in the 90s and no one listened? What happened to Afghanistan then?
When the US came and invaded Iraq, and they claimed weapons of mass destruction and that was bs, who paid for that?
What about ****lia in the 90s...when it was such a beautiful country, and now look at it.
What I don't like is double standards.

The reason for these countries being the way there are has nothing to do with religion - rather it's political and the country is unstable so you get militia groups. It's country after country.
Agreed on a lot of points - but you're comparing the rich to the average person. People love to complain about poverty but Allah already gave the solution through charity. Everyone has to give a portion of their wealth...if those rich people gave their part, the world would be in a better place. So please don't tell me to go look up to people who are bombing other Muslim countries (Saudi attacking Yemen...).

Laborers treated like chit...and yes it's completely wrong. But to say that's Islamic because they are in a Muslim country. What about the US presidents who swore on the bible? I thought Jesus was love and no one even questions the destruction they've caused on the globe? Do I go and blame every American? That's injustice there's many hard working good citizens in the country. Logic dictates...I didn't ask you to come into my home and destroy it...then don't complain when I come here.

But again the world we live in is money talks. The sad reality. When you have everything, you get deluded. I'm the first to say that had that been me, who knows what I would have done.

I think you think this world is some sort of utopia...it never was and never will be. Regardless where you are, how are you expecting every single person to control their actions? There will always be bad people out there. But then if it's not a utopia, let's blame it on xyz? Is that logical?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1630146993 01-30-2021, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted By MegaSloot⏩
I have noted your thunderous lack of a declaration to God and to the Prophet Muhammad. I have noted your lack of dedication to providing for the poor. Given how self-centered your post was, it sounds like you would be challenged even providing common decency (that's free you know) to your WIFE what to speak of to your community. Religion is about your love of God and dedication to humans, not about polishing your knob.
would you go away already?
"Australia is a bi country" - Samuel Whitcombe Hyde
post 1630148233 01-30-2021, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted By ExPatriot⏩
Here you whining kunts...

Spoiler!
This

Islam = Culture
post 1630148393 01-30-2021, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted By aket221⏩
Bro when you make wild sweeping statements as if they're real you need to back them up with proof and evidence. Where is the evidence that Islam says "kill the infidel"? Which Chaper, Verse, Hadith? Anything? Muhammed (PBUH) lived amongst Jews and Christians peacefully during the majority of his life. With such stupidity I don't even know where to begin. Di you use the same logic systems in other parts of your life? If so your life must be an absolute wreck and abomination. Did you ever think to read the Qu'ran (an English translation) and look for these verses? It's quite an alarming assertion you're putting on the entire world view of 1.8-2 billion people. Think you ape. Think.
why should Muhammed have 'pbuh' (peace be upon him) when he was a p3dophile
post 1630149503 01-30-2021, 09:32 PM
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The iPhone 7 only has 12 megapixels yet it took thousands of hours of using highly advanced equipment to create .The human eye has 527 mega pixels and somehow evolved “by chance”

Allahu akbar

We know by laws of the universe that you do not get an output without an input,
You don’t get a painting with out a painter . You don’t get a creation with out a creator.

Did the laptop that we are typing from right now magically appear and join all the components itself allowing us to speak on this Internet forum as speak ?

No there was a creator who not only created the components but put them together to make the laptop run .

Same with the human body. We have a creator and his name is Allah (swt) , he has lots of names
He is the master of universe

When u look close and analyse every animal u will to realise all of them where created for a reason , horse donkeys and camels are made for travelling
, dogs are made for hunting and guarding livestock/homes , alarms .
Cows are made to till soil and for food milk and clothing . Cats are made to kill plague
That’s why in ancient Europe so many people died of plague because they killed so many cats which were associated with witch’s causing mass spread of plague ,

Pigs are made for penicillin
We can actually communicate with gorillas threw sign launguages.

The Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) foretold Mobile phones and in the end days animals will communicate with humans

Abu Sa’īd al-Khudri (rA) reports that the Prophet ﷺ said, “By the One in whose hand is my soul, the Hour will not commence until predators speak to people, and until the tip of a man’s whip and the straps on his sandals speak to him, and his thigh informs him of what occurred with his family after he left (mobiles phones).

It was predicted 1400 years ago in the deserts of Saudi Arabia that the universe is expanding .

The heavens, We have built them with power. And verily, We are expanding it" Quran (51:47)

The preservation of the Pharoah in the time of Moses pbuh
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yinhd6dlS_I

We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his troops followed them aggresively and sinfully. When drowning became reality for him, he said: "I believe that there is no God except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe : I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam)."

(Allah Said) Now you believe ! While you refuse to believe before and you were one of the rebellion! and you chose to be transgressor!

So this day, We will save your dead body, that it may be a Sign to those who come after you! But verily, many people are heedless of Our Signs!" Quran Surah 10 (90:92)


Iron comes from space in the and it was in the Quran 1400 years ago :
We sent aforetime our apostles with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong) that men may stand forth in justice; and We “sent down” Iron in which is (material for) mighty war as well as many benefits for mankind that Allah may test who it is that will help unseen Him and His apostles; for Allah is Full of Strength exalted in Might (and able to enforce His will)” -Noble Quran 57:25

Honey as healing :

And thy Lord has inspired the bee, saying, ‘Make thou houses in the hills and in the trees and in the trellises which they build. Then eat of every kind of fruit, and follow the ways of thy Lord that have been made easy for thee.’ There comes forth from their bellies a drink of varying hues. Therein is cure for men. Surely, in that is a Sign for a people who reflect.”Quran

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FPmet05fYCU


There is so many more signs in the Quran
post 1630149863 01-30-2021, 09:37 PM
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#83
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If the next pope isn't a true conservative Catholic who upholds and enforces the moral teachings of the Bible, I'll consider finding a new religion.
It was all just satire. Sorry if I offended anyone with my trolling and sickening posts. Peace and love to everyone.
post 1630151223 01-30-2021, 10:05 PM
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#84
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Originally Posted By Liberal3lite⏩
If the next pope isn't a true conservative Catholic who upholds and enforces the moral teachings of the Bible, I'll consider finding a new religion.
We muslims are the only other religion that believe in the virgin birth of Christ no muslim is a muslim if the deny virgin birth of Christ . We believe Jesus (pbuh) was a Holy prophet .

We have a full chapter dedicated to the Virgin Mary in Quran .
She is the mother of believers in Islam

Jesus(pbuh) is the messiah in our religion
We actually await the second coming of Jesus as we speak same as Christians

We also believe that an anti christ is coming soon same as Christians believe , he will rebuild the temple of Solomon
We believe in the gospel (injeel and torah and the Salms of David (the Zabur)
. Christians say Amen after there prayers we muslims say Ameen

Both muslims christians believe in judgement day heaven and hell , satan the enemy of mankind ,return of Jesus (pbuh)
Adam and Eve
same angels Michael(mikael) Gabriel (jibreel) Raphael (israfeel)

Jews don’t believe in Jesus as a prophet ,his miraculous birth ,hell or the existence of Satan

To be Jewish ones mother has to be a Jew
post 1630152013 01-30-2021, 10:21 PM
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#85
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Originally Posted By thetruthsk⏩
why should Muhammed have 'pbuh' (peace be upon him) when he was a p3dophile
There was no age of consent back then. If it wasn't illegal how was he a ****phile?
post 1630154293 01-30-2021, 10:57 PM
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For all Muslim brahs and anybody interested in knowing anything about Islamic creed, tafseer, Hadith, fiqh, misc. topics, ANYTHING. I STRONGLY recommend Nabulsi encyclopedia of Islamic science: https//nabulsi.com/web/en/category/55/Islamic-creed
post 1630157993 01-31-2021, 12:19 AM
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Absolutely not
Officially 65yrs old, Beef eating Conservative, Trump Loving Anti-Abortion Anti-Liberal, Pro Israel Christian MAN IF YOU don't like it or me SCREW YOU, I DON'T CARE. I lift heavy ass weight w/o the use of DRUGS / TRT or ANY unnatural assistance, I Own & Support Gun Ownership

"FUC JOE BIDEN & ALL DEMOCRATS, SCHUMER IS A TRAITOR. TRUMP 2024"

*Current Weight & Thread w/ Video's*
Weight / 185.6
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179727593
post 1630158623 01-31-2021, 12:34 AM
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The world would be better off without pisslam. Imagine needing your imamrabbi to have women respect you.
What I can say for sure is China is right about Islam
post 1630159593 01-31-2021, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted By SimpIeJack⏩
If you convert to another culture you go automatically to the bottom of the status totem pole.

Look at how the US treats immigrants.

In reality 95% of other countries are more racist and less tolerant of outsiders than the USA.

The only exception is for rich people, because money always talks.

Unless you're rich, you should not consider moving to another culture.
super clever analysis.

I could consider some traditions derived from religion as a weapon against degenerate nonsense developing.
post 1630166023 01-31-2021, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
So Muslims should go back to countries that have been destroyed by the US correct?
No. Please re-read my post.

Also, the Gulf states, Malaysia and Indonesia have not been destroyed by America.
What I don't like is double standards.
What double standard?

Do you think I agree with western foreign policy?
So please don't tell me to go look up to people who are bombing other Muslim countries (Saudi attacking Yemen...).
I never said to look up to anything.

You were complaining about it being hard to not be a degenerate because western society is degenerate, so I said (like the Quran says) there is nothing more important than a person's spiritual standing, so why would a muslim not move to a muslim majority country to protect their spiritual standing?
Laborers treated like chit...and yes it's completely wrong. But to say that's Islamic because they are in a Muslim country.
I'm not sure if you have sincerely misinterpreted what I've writen, or you are purposefully misinterpreting it because you don't want to answer my question.

I never said it was Islamic. The post was critizing the idea that Islam is cure for the spiritual ills of society. Islam has failed even muslim majority nations. There are non muslim nations where people are treatedsignificantlybetter, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation.
I think you think this world is some sort of utopia...it never was and never will be. Regardless where you are, how are you expecting every single person to control their actions? There will always #be bad people out there. But then if it's not a utopia, let's blame it on xyz? Is that logical?
Black and White thinking.

Have you heard the Voltaire quote: The perfect is the enemy of the good?

For the average person regardless of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and gender there are number of better in a number of non-muslim countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Singapore, and Japan. Generally people are treated better by the native citizens and governments of those countries than in muslim majority countries. They are not drawing from Islam, so why are their societies better (on various measures) than even the gulf states - which are in the top 10 GDP per capita list?

What you seem to be agreeing is that Muslim countries are no ethically or spiritually different than non-muslim societies

If you do agree with that, I can't see how you can disagree with me saying that Islam - in and of itself - is not a cure to any spiritual ills in the West or any non muslim country, otherwise muslim majority nations would have the highest quality of life... They do not.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
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