They aren't stone age believers. The US and the USSR both raped the middle east and left a lot of its social institutions in shambles due to civil unrest, violence, and chaos as direct consequences of cold war era political actions.

Ahh, another "If I were in charge I'd have created the socialist utopia" retard spams.

Meanwhile every socialist/commie regime literally HAS TO be genocidal to keep the scam of scaring the populace into submission going for awhile. North Korea keeps itself afloat by their government being a huge supplier of crystal meth around the world, selling arms to anybody who wants them, cyber scamming gullible people and banks out billions per year, and sending their slave labor across many countries. As far as the Holodomor, you've read 30 minutes via web searched results you want to believe. It was the worst of the worst in recorded human history. Maybe some South American or African tribes did just as bad in the long ago past (cannibalism, slavery, human sacrifices at epic proportions), but we can't know exactly at what scale compared to Bolshevism and Maoism death cults.

Also, please stop spamming the R/P. That's way too many new temporary email addresses and alts. Save the "cuckworld69" and "willdiealone11" email addresses for some other poor sap.

It's not a utopia. There is no perfect system. Socialism by definition requires the loss of freedom. As an indoctrinated American, you feel very passionately about that and emotionally respond.

No, and most socialist states are directly fighting against genocide. Imperialist capitalist states are far more genocidal if you actually run the numbers and keep score.
North Korea was at one point thriving and freer than South Korea (which was a fascist dictatorship for most of its history) right up until the stagnation and collapse of the USSR, champ. Imagine having the gall to comment on genocide and NK when the US essentially carried out one against them in the Korean war.

I love how you guys deny the holocaust, but make such a huge thing of holodomor. Holodomor was played up by Ukrainian fascists trying to malign Stalin.

I'm not spamming R&P. That's some other dickwad.

You're an emotional woman who responds like a crybaby with preprogrammed talking points spoonfed to you by the CIA from birth. There is nothing that would ever convince you of the merits of other systems except for bullets to try to stop you from meddling. The #1 thing Americans like you need to do is fuk off and go die somewhere instead of colonizing, plundering, and destabilizing countries left and right wherever you go because of your histrionics.

maybe freedom doesnt work with low iq retards? you americans still dont get that.

Even though IQ is bullshyt, you can see that many of the highest scoring societies in math and science assessments are not very free at all. Look at Singapore. There is no reason a priori to believe freedom with an intelligent population works well always. For example, in scarce conditions, intelligent people may ruthlessly and violently compete in a very destructive manner for control. We already saw this in very intelligent and developed civilizations for their time, such as Persia, Russia, and Germany.

Imagine the limit of a society where ultra intelligent humans are all masters of nuclear engineering and physics, molecular virology, plastics chemistry, etc. Now add scarcity and political competition. Great, now you have terror factions waging civil wars with improvised WMD. So much for high IQ.

The need to violently compete does not disappear with intelligence. In fact, intelligence just makes it more destructive when it arises.

The key to reducing violence is reducing scarcity conditions that promote it. It is poverty that plays a major (though not the only role) in the aggression. And that is the primary objective of socialism, to reduce the poverty and inequality that promotes conflict to reach a kind of equilibrium.

Extreme forms of capitalism also help reduce poverty for some, but usually at the expense of others under imperialism. It also is often very unequal in the progress, further exacerbating conflict.

The Chinese model will likely outlast the American one.

well yeah the elites benefit i mean the common folk and i would advocate a different foreign policy.

same way the conventional view is that US benefits from the proxy war with Russia in Ukraine to wear them down so they will be less a threat when paired with a potential war with China. But I would rather a different foreign policy from the US of course I have no say in it. I wish they would atleast be honest with what they are doing and enough of the bullchit about it.


And the more i think of it, even ignoring all morals aside, strategically it was a terrible decision for the US, with the amount of resources they threw at Iraq, very little benefit came from it other than the money thrown around. Would have been so much better off throwing it towards conventional military meant for peer competitors instead we are so far behind now where we should be with China.

Yes, but since we have a democratic government, they must lie to us more to convince us of self serving militaristic goals. John Mearsheimer had a great book about this explaining why leaders lie -- especially to their own people.

I will also add that it is ironic so many right wingers today criticize (financial and political) elites while endorsing a system that, from the ground up, is designed entirely to benefit elites and preserve a non meritocratic hierarchial society via mechanisms of capital, investment, regulatory capture, and inheritance. That is exactly what capitalism is.

signapore isnt a ****hole like iraq. telltale sign of low iq is when it takes a bunch of sentences to make a point.

Aussie Brah here.

Used to love America .....now the world can see the people in power there a bunch of KUNTS who wanna fuk over the world to suit their agenda of WOKENESS.

Look at your presidents since they killed Kennedy....and now you have a broken robot leading the country.

Australia is worse, we are even more controlled and we have boongs.

meh capitalism had a good run and balance of powers of the 3 branches was a great concept, the US had a great run but its over.

socialism requires even less rights than we have now, with more government powers and everyone likes to pretend that for some reason in their fantasy socialist utopia it will be the "good" leaders instead of the usual self serving sociopaths that have run most governments in history

people love to point out these ideal countries like a singapore, norway, sweeden ect, and how the US should model after them while ignoring those countries have a small population. Major metro areas of the US have more people than those entire countries and they are dumping unskilled illegal immigrants by the thousands daily here. Look at those countries immigration numbers, they are able to have enough jobs for their population. Those policies dont fit a country like the US with 330 million + 30 million illegals.

so what norway has a living wage there are only 5 million people there who cares. And their national defense is basically entirely subsidized by the US. Same for singapore, if the US didnt subsidize their national defense, they would be a chinese colony time yesterday.

With due respect, I think you're a fascist, an idiot, and a depressed loser (even more so than me). WHOOSH. It seems you missed the point.

At no point did I claim the US should model after them. In fact, I merely ask the US to stop demanding others model after the US. Governments form in response to conditions on the ground. So do cultures.

The US has an immigration crisis largely due to its own campaigns of destabilization of its nearby countries along with its selfish ultranationalist foreign policy that has made international conditions so unequal.

i didnt read all your post this thread and not saying you specifically said that, but in general that is what i see people saying hyping up these smaller countries. I see them ignoring that its easier for a lower population country and much harder when you have 350 million and dont really produce much anymore and automation scales things. The jobs required for the people doesnt scale linearly with automation.

We will have to see which models win out. China's mixed market approach to socialism is very strong, but social democracy also seems strong. We will see what happens. America may even fall to fascism, though that usually brings ruin to a country. We will just have to see.

your point is wrong to because like i said singapore isnt a ****hole like iraq. just go back to reddit, where you obviously came from.

True. I would argue that the larger a country gets, the less free it must get automatically due to scale and risk. Suddenly, a lone terrorist could kill thousands instead of tens.

I'll explain the point made since you are very slow. The inference from your claim is that freedom only works for "high iq societies". I pointed out that even in such societies, freedom might not work and in fact is doomed to fail under conditions of scarcity. This illustrates that "iq levels" alone do not determine how politically stable a society is or how well it can tolerate freedom. We also have seen freedom work in "low IQ societies" as well in some cases, such as Uruguay (nevermind that these IQ estimates come from racist biased pseudoscientific studies). The point is IQ isn't the defining issue. The main conditions that lead to violence (scarcity being one of them) are. In short, you're a moron.

You're also a bigot, a lazy sack of chit, and other things. Go crawl back into your disgusting whore of a mother's vagina and suffocate from the rancid odor.

iraq is literally a bunch of low iq people and look what happened after sadaam was taken out. your stupid **** about high iq people is completely irrelevant lol. oh man.

Again, your point about IQ is totally irrelevant and only exists to serve your bigotry. There exist "high IQ" societies that are not free and are stable. There exist "low IQ" societies that are free and stable. So why even talk about IQ? I know why. Because you are a sad, weak, pathetic little cumdumpster who just wants to act like you are superior to Iraqi people.

no there arent low iq societies like that. if high iq cant achieve that, why are you saying low iq can? thats the whole point of this thread dummy. way to not even directly address what im saying like what i said with iraq before, another telltale sign youre wrong. im actaully addressing your crap though.

There are several relatively stable and peaceful free countries, which bigots like you would label "low iq". One example is Uruguay. I explained to you twice that average citizen intelligence alone does not guarantee anything about political stability in response to freedom. I even showed you cases in history of very "high IQ" societies destroying themselves with political violence due to poor material conditions.

my thing was never about stability, but success which also needs stability. iraq was only a majopr player because of sadaam. low iq countries in general that are "free" dont accomplish anything. thats the whole point with sadaam. he was the high iq leader that took iraq to its best and now its over for them.

Again, it remains to be seen if Iraq was better or worse off under Saddam. We will find out in the coming decades.

Don't know about Saddam, he always seemed a bit grey

His son Uday though was batshyt crazy and an aboslute evil dipshyt. Even Saddam wanted to plead him guilty of a murder

what do you mean “who cares”? I’m answering the question in the OP. Obviously they were capable of, and got away with, committing war crimes…everybody knows that, and everybody deals with it because nobody has a choice.

Yes, ANOTHER issue is that we stayed for too long once we were there.

I know several Iraqi kurds that lived under his regime that liked him & miss him.

Keep in mind that the kurds were the ethnic group he supposedly used mustard gas on & commited war genocides against. If anyone would hate him it would be them.

Funny how American neo-cons hate him more for how he treated kurds than actual kurds do.
That alone should tell you everything you need to know.
The whole sympathy for the innocents he killed is FAKE & only an excuse used to justify a war that only served Jewish interests.

The war against Iraq was 1000 times more unprovoked than Putin’s war against Ukraine. Only countries Saddam was a threat to was Israel, Saudi & Kuwait. IE America’s lapdogs (not Israel tho. America i IsrAel’s bish. Not the other way around)

was gadafi worse than saddam?

Wincel, how come people don't migrate to Communist countries? And why does someone deserve death for fleeing a Communist ****hole?

Saddam gets the nod for taking his execution as a complete G

Miscers look more nervous saying Hello to sloots than Saddam looked seconds before being hanged.

Bro even roasted his hecklers as they were turing the noose