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08-12-2024, 08:32 PM
#61
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Rent is usually more than a mortgage. You never win by renting, believe me. I'm renting right now, and it was a mistake. My rent now for a 1200sq ft apartment is more than my mortgage for a 2800sq ft house on 3 acres with a 6 car garage. That said, my rentals bring in a nice chunk of change every month, and I have learned my lesson, I will never rent again.
What do you mean?
In my opinion, renting is the way to go if you're a high income earner, especially if you're dual income. Live beneath your means for 2-3 years, buy a home and then pay it off in another 2-3 years and be on easy street.
I think home ownership is vastly overblown and seriously think it's not a good move for most people out there. People look at interest rates but they don't realize they are paying the majority of the interest on the loan in the initial years. It's only worth the price of a mortgage if they stay long enough or the home value appreciates in the short term.
I rather have a substantial downpayment and then aggressively pay off the home so that I'm not reliant on a job at that point. That gives me freedom and more risk tolerance to branch out and make more investments in real estate.
In my opinion, renting is the way to go if you're a high income earner, especially if you're dual income. Live beneath your means for 2-3 years, buy a home and then pay it off in another 2-3 years and be on easy street.
I think home ownership is vastly overblown and seriously think it's not a good move for most people out there. People look at interest rates but they don't realize they are paying the majority of the interest on the loan in the initial years. It's only worth the price of a mortgage if they stay long enough or the home value appreciates in the short term.
I rather have a substantial downpayment and then aggressively pay off the home so that I'm not reliant on a job at that point. That gives me freedom and more risk tolerance to branch out and make more investments in real estate.
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08-12-2024, 08:50 PM
#62
Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
I have lived in Chicago and NYC. In Chicago it is more expensive to buy a condo rather than rent it due to HOA fees. In NYC it is the same deal.
Rent is usually more than a mortgage. You never win by renting, believe me. I'm renting right now, and it was a mistake. My rent now for a 1200sq ft apartment is more than my mortgage for a 2800sq ft house on 3 acres with a 6 car garage. That said, my rentals bring in a nice chunk of change every month, and I have learned my lesson, I will never rent again.
If you're comparing a 3 bedroom apartment to a 3 bedroom home, you might be correct, but I don't think that applies anymore due to how high interest rates are. Renting is still cheaper.
When I think renting, I think of someone who is downsizing vs a full sized home, not someone who is renting a home vs buying it.
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08-12-2024, 09:09 PM
#63
Originally Posted By 6gorillion⏩
Why not rent if it comes to that? Move to some chitty apt and still gain equity
Yep.
And even if you can afford the payments, who's to say you won't be laid off lol. Unless you have some super in demand skillset like a RN or something…it's a huge risk.
Imagine getting canned and having 4k in house payment Lulz.
And even if you can afford the payments, who's to say you won't be laid off lol. Unless you have some super in demand skillset like a RN or something…it's a huge risk.
Imagine getting canned and having 4k in house payment Lulz.
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08-12-2024, 09:19 PM
#64
A few years ago you can buy some really cheap runned down houses with a decent plot of land in the main city for a few grand. Now you can't get them any less than $50k and that's talking a house that needs tons of work.
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08-12-2024, 09:32 PM
#65
Yeah just try harder, make more money, move to a lower COL area, etc
Also don’t vote democrats who want more building regulations which limits the supply of housing since that’s the main issue right now
Also don’t vote democrats who want more building regulations which limits the supply of housing since that’s the main issue right now
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08-12-2024, 10:16 PM
#66
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
It phucking nukes my mind that people my age are trying to get into houses with 3% down. After PMI, front-loaded bank interest, insurance, and property taxes, you are literally just a phucking rentcel. What percentage of your total payment even goes against your principle.
I rather have a substantial downpayment and then aggressively pay off the home so that I'm not reliant on a job at that point. That gives me freedom and more risk tolerance to branch out and make more investments in real estate.
People saying to buy the first home and then cash out the equity after a couple years are assuming 1) there will be much if any equity to cash out since first few years you're just paying interest and 2) the home will appreciate in the short term. The HELOC you're getting on homes these days for the purposes of taking out equity is on the order of 10%+ interest rate anyways.
People saying to buy the first home and then cash out the equity after a couple years are assuming 1) there will be much if any equity to cash out since first few years you're just paying interest and 2) the home will appreciate in the short term. The HELOC you're getting on homes these days for the purposes of taking out equity is on the order of 10%+ interest rate anyways.
Especially in a high rate environment, you put as much down as you phuckin can. The "invest the difference" gang was always pretty stupid, but they had did have an arbitrage opportunity when mortgages were 4% and SPY was returning 10%. 7% mortgages buried that though.
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08-12-2024, 10:21 PM
#67
Originally Posted By FA*******⏩
If there is a recession or depression and these people with low downpayments lose their homes, there's going to be a lot of pain.
It phucking nukes my mind that people my age are trying to get into houses with 3% down. After PMI, front-loaded bank interest, insurance, and property taxes, you are literally just a phucking rentcel. What percentage of your total payment even goes against your principle.
Especially in a high rate environment, you put as much down as you phuckin can. The "invest the difference" gang was always pretty stupid, but they had did have an arbitrage opportunity when mortgages were 4% and SPY was returning 10%. 7% mortgages buried that though.
Especially in a high rate environment, you put as much down as you phuckin can. The "invest the difference" gang was always pretty stupid, but they had did have an arbitrage opportunity when mortgages were 4% and SPY was returning 10%. 7% mortgages buried that though.
I just don't see the point of home ownership without a family, there's a lot of single people or people without kids buying homes.. it just doesn't make sense unless they have substantial downpayments and money saved. As you said, the combination of PMI, front loaded interest, insurance, property taxes, repairs, utilities, and lack of mobility sounds like hell.
There was another miscer around here, Sam212 I think who waited to buy his first home until he was 41.. and he paid cash for it. All done. Until then he was a renter, and I'm pretty sure he was an MD so he was pulling in the big bucks. That's what I'd like to do.
Not pay a premium for a chitty starter home and then pray that it appreciates when I'm ready to move into something bigger and then pay even more interest. Just a suckers game. Most people only look at their overall payment and interest rate % and think they're savvy not realizing they're getting royally screwed on a front loaded amortization schedule.
edit: fuark I'm a wizard lmao, Sam212 right below
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08-12-2024, 10:22 PM
#68
Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
Rent is usually more than a mortgage. You never win by renting, believe me. I'm renting right now, and it was a mistake. My rent now for a 1200sq ft apartment is more than my mortgage for a 2800sq ft house on 3 acres with a 6 car garage. That said, my rentals bring in a nice chunk of change every month, and I have learned my lesson, I will never rent again.
Depends, most people would live in rather dumpy rental but would want to buy a nice place. I had been living in a 2200sqft paying $2500/month for last few years. It’s not a bad house by any means and in a decent area. With young children, we had no problem being there.
Finally bought a house in an upscale community with top notch schools, 3000 sqft, cost us almost $1.4 mil. You can’t find a house like ours for rent in this community, so in that regard if I wanted to rent the same house, I wouldn’t even been able to find it.
08-12-2024, 10:34 PM
#69
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Nice houses in nice neighborhoods appreciate faster. This is where you want to get a loan and invest your money in, because you are literally living for free and then being given extra money once you decide to sell the house, as long as you can make the payments.
If there is a recession or depression and these people with low downpayments lose their homes, there's going to be a lot of pain.
I just don't see the point of home ownership without a family, there's a lot of single people or people without kids buying homes.. it just doesn't make sense unless they have substantial downpayments and money saved. As you said, the combination of PMI, front loaded interest, insurance, property taxes, repairs, utilities, and lack of mobility sounds like hell.
There was another miscer around here, Sam212 I think who waited to buy his first home until he was 41.. and he paid cash for it. All done. Until then he was a renter, and I'm pretty sure he was an MD so he was pulling in the big bucks. That's what I'd like to do.
Not pay a premium for a chitty starter home and then pray that it appreciates when I'm ready to move into something bigger and then pay even more interest. Just a suckers game. Most people only look at their overall payment and interest rate % and think they're savvy not realizing they're getting royally screwed on a front loaded amortization schedule.
edit: fuark I'm a wizard lmao, Sam212 right below
I just don't see the point of home ownership without a family, there's a lot of single people or people without kids buying homes.. it just doesn't make sense unless they have substantial downpayments and money saved. As you said, the combination of PMI, front loaded interest, insurance, property taxes, repairs, utilities, and lack of mobility sounds like hell.
There was another miscer around here, Sam212 I think who waited to buy his first home until he was 41.. and he paid cash for it. All done. Until then he was a renter, and I'm pretty sure he was an MD so he was pulling in the big bucks. That's what I'd like to do.
Not pay a premium for a chitty starter home and then pray that it appreciates when I'm ready to move into something bigger and then pay even more interest. Just a suckers game. Most people only look at their overall payment and interest rate % and think they're savvy not realizing they're getting royally screwed on a front loaded amortization schedule.
edit: fuark I'm a wizard lmao, Sam212 right below
1. You don't need insurance. Can always cancel if you they require you to have it upfront.
2. Repair cost is negligent unless its a really old house.
3. Maintenance is negligent.
3. Property taxes reflect the value of the house and neighborhood. If you want to live in a nice house and neighborhood, better make sure you can afford the higher taxes.
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08-12-2024, 10:35 PM
#70
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
The biggest issue with home ownership as a single/young person is commitment. It’s a lot of commitment. Now I know you can sell it, and in this market it’s pretty easy to sell and move, but it’s not always as easy as it seems.
If there is a recession or depression and these people with low downpayments lose their homes, there's going to be a lot of pain.
I just don't see the point of home ownership without a family, there's a lot of single people or people without kids buying homes.. it just doesn't make sense unless they have substantial downpayments and money saved. As you said, the combination of PMI, front loaded interest, insurance, property taxes, repairs, utilities, and lack of mobility sounds like hell.
There was another miscer around here, Sam212 I think who waited to buy his first home until he was 41.. and he paid cash for it. All done. Until then he was a renter, and I'm pretty sure he was an MD so he was pulling in the big bucks. That's what I'd like to do.
Not pay a premium for a chitty starter home and then pray that it appreciates when I'm ready to move into something bigger and then pay even more interest. Just a suckers game. Most people only look at their overall payment and interest rate % and think they're savvy not realizing they're getting royally screwed on a front loaded amortization schedule.
edit: fuark I'm a wizard lmao, Sam212 right below
I just don't see the point of home ownership without a family, there's a lot of single people or people without kids buying homes.. it just doesn't make sense unless they have substantial downpayments and money saved. As you said, the combination of PMI, front loaded interest, insurance, property taxes, repairs, utilities, and lack of mobility sounds like hell.
There was another miscer around here, Sam212 I think who waited to buy his first home until he was 41.. and he paid cash for it. All done. Until then he was a renter, and I'm pretty sure he was an MD so he was pulling in the big bucks. That's what I'd like to do.
Not pay a premium for a chitty starter home and then pray that it appreciates when I'm ready to move into something bigger and then pay even more interest. Just a suckers game. Most people only look at their overall payment and interest rate % and think they're savvy not realizing they're getting royally screwed on a front loaded amortization schedule.
edit: fuark I'm a wizard lmao, Sam212 right below
Renting gives you a lot of options to move and make career changes if you have to.
08-13-2024, 12:16 AM
#71
I've been shopping seriously with an agent for about a month and starting casually looking back in the Spring. Prices are going up in front of my eyes. There were a decent amount of turn key move-in ready homes for $350k early summer. Now the same caliber homes seem to be around $380-400k. Anything decent that comes up for $350k now is gone overnight. We schedule showings and there are other people pouring in left and right. There's hardly even "open houses" anymore because it's all sold within a few days. I'm not in a hurry because I don't need to be, but I'm starting to panic a little bit, because at this rate I could soon be priced out for what I want in the 350-400 range.
There's high demand and low inventory so don't count on the housing market cooling anytime soon either.
There's high demand and low inventory so don't count on the housing market cooling anytime soon either.
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08-13-2024, 12:16 AM
#72
Too many people fall into the "I have to own a home at all costs" trap and don't realize that shelter is one of your biggest sources of overhead, so you need to keep it as low as possible. So they overleverage themselves and then complain about it.
Sometimes that means yes, renting is smarter than buying for a number of reasons including financial ones. It has been up here in any major city in Canada for over 5 years, even before COVID. But for whatever reason there's a stigma around it like you can't possibly successful if you don't own a home, which I don't understand.
Sometimes that means yes, renting is smarter than buying for a number of reasons including financial ones. It has been up here in any major city in Canada for over 5 years, even before COVID. But for whatever reason there's a stigma around it like you can't possibly successful if you don't own a home, which I don't understand.
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08-13-2024, 12:44 AM
#73
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
the best is if you can pay off the home substantially quicker, ie by the time you get 40-50 years old. Then you spend the remaining years of your life either on retirement or working part time with just paying property taxes on your home, it being paid off.
What do you mean?
In my opinion, renting is the way to go if you're a high income earner, especially if you're dual income. Live beneath your means for 2-3 years, buy a home and then pay it off in another 2-3 years and be on easy street.
I think home ownership is vastly overblown and seriously think it's not a good move for most people out there. People look at interest rates but they don't realize they are paying the majority of the interest on the loan in the initial years. It's only worth the price of a mortgage if they stay long enough or the home value appreciates in the short term.
I rather have a substantial downpayment and then aggressively pay off the home so that I'm not reliant on a job at that point. That gives me freedom and more risk tolerance to branch out and make more investments in real estate.
People saying to buy the first home and then cash out the equity after a couple years are assuming 1) there will be much if any equity to cash out since first few years you're just paying interest and 2) the home will appreciate in the short term. The HELOC you're getting on homes these days for the purposes of taking out equity is on the order of 10%+ interest rate anyways.
In my opinion, renting is the way to go if you're a high income earner, especially if you're dual income. Live beneath your means for 2-3 years, buy a home and then pay it off in another 2-3 years and be on easy street.
I think home ownership is vastly overblown and seriously think it's not a good move for most people out there. People look at interest rates but they don't realize they are paying the majority of the interest on the loan in the initial years. It's only worth the price of a mortgage if they stay long enough or the home value appreciates in the short term.
I rather have a substantial downpayment and then aggressively pay off the home so that I'm not reliant on a job at that point. That gives me freedom and more risk tolerance to branch out and make more investments in real estate.
People saying to buy the first home and then cash out the equity after a couple years are assuming 1) there will be much if any equity to cash out since first few years you're just paying interest and 2) the home will appreciate in the short term. The HELOC you're getting on homes these days for the purposes of taking out equity is on the order of 10%+ interest rate anyways.
That beats renting 100%. You can also sell and capitalize on the growth if you want to move.
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08-13-2024, 12:46 AM
#74
now a days you really need to strategize how to get it the old fashion way. By marrying into it. scout some dumb bitch that inhereted property, get married, get that bag, dumb the bitch and now you got a nice start up capital to actually do something. just lol at wanting to save your way up to owning your first home (actually owning, not being the banks bitch)
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08-13-2024, 01:00 AM
#75
Originally Posted By flat6pilot⏩
How can there be high demand if everyone is priced out? Do you mean high demand for the lower (300k-400k) priced homes?
I've been shopping seriously with an agent for about a month and starting casually looking back in the Spring. Prices are going up in front of my eyes. There were a decent amount of turn key move-in ready homes for $350k early summer. Now the same caliber homes seem to be around $380-400k. Anything decent that comes up for $350k now is gone overnight. We schedule showings and there are other people pouring in left and right. There's hardly even "open houses" anymore because it's all sold within a few days. I'm not in a hurry because I don't need to be, but I'm starting to panic a little bit, because at this rate I could soon be priced out for what I want in the 350-400 range.
There's high demand and low inventory so don't count on the housing market cooling anytime soon either.
There's high demand and low inventory so don't count on the housing market cooling anytime soon either.
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08-13-2024, 05:58 AM
#76
In Texas there are a lot of new construction homes being built. They entice first time home buyers with low introductory interest rates but adjust to market rates after the first year or two. Combine that with property taxes being assed as just the land, making the payments really cheap. They are shocked at the price change after the first year.
Should be interesting in the coming years.
Should be interesting in the coming years.
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08-13-2024, 06:03 AM
#77
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
If there is a recession or depression and these people with low downpayments lose their homes, there's going to be a lot of pain.
I keep arguing with people on this and they don't want to listen. House prices will never go down. If there's a repression or recession, people will default on everything and keep mortgages. 40% of people out there have a 3% interest rate and 1000-2000 payment. They know if they default on their house, they will have to rent or buy something else and pay 3-4000 a month. People will save their mortgage before anything else
08-13-2024, 06:05 AM
#78
Originally Posted By flat6pilot⏩
I've been shopping seriously with an agent for about a month and starting casually looking back in the Spring. Prices are going up in front of my eyes. There were a decent amount of turn key move-in ready homes for $350k early summer. Now the same caliber homes seem to be around $380-400k. Anything decent that comes up for $350k now is gone overnight. We schedule showings and there are other people pouring in left and right. There's hardly even "open houses" anymore because it's all sold within a few days. I'm not in a hurry because I don't need to be, but I'm starting to panic a little bit, because at this rate I could soon be priced out for what I want in the 350-400 range.
There's high demand and low inventory so don't count on the housing market cooling anytime soon either.
There's high demand and low inventory so don't count on the housing market cooling anytime soon either.
LOL @ people waiting for the house prices to drop
they're about to lower rates slightly, which will keep increasing prices more and more. You should have bought a house years ago, all you're doing is making it worse and worse
08-13-2024, 06:30 AM
#79
Originally Posted By xTEXASPRIDEx⏩
huh where have I heard that before
In Texas there are a lot of new construction homes being built. They entice first time home buyers with low introductory interest rates but adjust to market rates after the first year or two. Combine that with property taxes being assed as just the land, making the payments really cheap. They are shocked at the price change after the first year.
Should be interesting in the coming years.
Should be interesting in the coming years.
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08-13-2024, 06:32 AM
#80
Originally Posted By xTEXASPRIDEx⏩
Lmao
In Texas there are a lot of new construction homes being built. They entice first time home buyers with low introductory interest rates but adjust to market rates after the first year or two. Combine that with property taxes being assed as just the land, making the payments really cheap. They are shocked at the price change after the first year.
Should be interesting in the coming years.
Should be interesting in the coming years.
The only “interesting” thing will be when you look back and think how cheap the houses could have been bought in 2024
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08-13-2024, 06:39 AM
#81
Originally Posted By r32gojirra⏩
It's interesting to me since I'm also seeing 80k trucks and suvs parked in the driveway which I'm sure the monthly payment is close to the house note.
Lmao
The only “interesting” thing will be when you look back and think how cheap the houses could have been bought in 2024
The only “interesting” thing will be when you look back and think how cheap the houses could have been bought in 2024
Combine that with home insurance. Texas got rocked this year from natural disasters. I wouldn't be surprised if insurance doubles in some areas.
Seems like most people are a layoff or a major bill away from losing everything IMO.
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08-13-2024, 06:42 AM
#82
Originally Posted By r32gojirra⏩
This. I always tell people, you keep waiting, in the mean time prices will continue to go up, and soon enough you'll be priced out.
Lmao
The only “interesting” thing will be when you look back and think how cheap the houses could have been bought in 2024
The only “interesting” thing will be when you look back and think how cheap the houses could have been bought in 2024
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08-13-2024, 06:43 AM
#83
Originally Posted By xTEXASPRIDEx⏩
This is probably the case with about half the people in NA as a whole. There's been a rash of layoffs within the 45-55 year old set where I live, and a lot of them are searching for jobs for a year because nobody wants to hire them. That's a lot of time to be without one income. So they are leveraging debt like crazy just to maintain their style of living.
Seems like most people are a layoff or a major bill away from losing everything IMO.
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08-13-2024, 06:47 AM
#84
Originally Posted By theory816⏩
A few years ago you can buy some really cheap runned down houses with a decent plot of land in the main city for a few grand. Now you can't get them any less than $50k and that's talking a house that needs tons of work.
Move to detroit. Get about a $200k loan and fix something like this up
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...88544004_zpid/
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08-13-2024, 06:47 AM
#85
Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
I'm not saying home prices will go down, I'm talking about the average joe buying the homes right now might be in trouble down the road.
This. I always tell people, you keep waiting, in the mean time prices will continue to go up, and soon enough you'll be priced out.
IIRC investment firms made up around 35% of all residential property purchases last year.
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08-13-2024, 06:53 AM
#86
Originally Posted By xTEXASPRIDEx⏩
I keep arguing with people on this and they don't want to listen. House prices will never go down. If there's a repression or recession, people will default on everything and keep mortgages. 40% of people out there have a 3% interest rate and 1000-2000 payment. They know if they default on their house, they will have to rent or buy something else and pay 3-4000 a month. People will save their mortgage before anything else
It's interesting to me since I'm also seeing 80k trucks and suvs parked in the driveway which I'm sure the monthly payment is close to the house note.
Combine that with home insurance. Texas got rocked this year from natural disasters. I wouldn't be surprised if insurance doubles in some areas.
Seems like most people are a layoff or a major bill away from losing everything IMO.
Combine that with home insurance. Texas got rocked this year from natural disasters. I wouldn't be surprised if insurance doubles in some areas.
Seems like most people are a layoff or a major bill away from losing everything IMO.
People will file bankruptcy on everything and keep the house before losing a 1000 mortgage with 3% interest
08-13-2024, 07:03 AM
#87
Originally Posted By Orion1818⏩
100%
I keep arguing with people on this and they don't want to listen. House prices will never go down. If there's a repression or recession, people will default on everything and keep mortgages. 40% of people out there have a 3% interest rate and 1000-2000 payment. They know if they default on their house, they will have to rent or buy something else and pay 3-4000 a month. People will save their mortgage before anything else
People will file bankruptcy on everything and keep the house before losing a 1000 mortgage with 3% interest
People will file bankruptcy on everything and keep the house before losing a 1000 mortgage with 3% interest
but what happens when property taxes, insurance and the HOA go up?
Also, depending on which form of bankruptcy you file, they can still come after your home to pay off debts.
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08-13-2024, 07:11 AM
#88
Originally Posted By Orion1818⏩
LOL $60k is nowhere near 4k post tax. I'm at $59,000. It's more like $3400 after taxes and that's without 401k and health insurance.
60k is 5k a month before taxes dude. That's about 4k a month post tax, are you high?
you think a 3-4k mortgage is affordable on 4-5k a month post tax?
you think a 3-4k mortgage is affordable on 4-5k a month post tax?
To really make it in this current climate, I've estimated about $85k with no debt. That's enough for a 401k, pay all your bills, and about $1000/month leftover. You should be ok in a majority of cities.
$4800/month net
$1800 rent
$250 Utilities
$600 food
$150 internet
$100 car insurance
$200 gas
$50 cell
= $3150
$1650
401k??
Health Insurance??
If you can hit $100k in a few years and still live like the above you will have about $2k/month left and definitely be able to save for a house.
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08-13-2024, 07:11 AM
#89
Originally Posted By GuineaDago585⏩
Your great grand parents were even poorer, relatively, and they had no problem with that. Think about how much less material wealth in general people had for all of human history.
Yup it’s a fkin disaster. I’m 28 years old and I’ll probably never be able to own a home in my life, let alone support a family or have children. Tour was over before it even started.
The issue with family formation today is with the emancipation of women. Women have been the property of men for so long that they are evolutionarily adapted to it, and things are very difficult now that they are not.
08-13-2024, 07:16 AM
#90
Originally Posted By yewotm8⏩
'material wealth'.
Your great grand parents were even poorer, relatively, and they had no problem with that. Think about how much less material wealth in general people had for all of human history.
The issue with family formation today is with the emancipation of women. Women have been the property of men for so long that they are evolutionarily adapted to it, and things are very difficult now that they are not.
The issue with family formation today is with the emancipation of women. Women have been the property of men for so long that they are evolutionarily adapted to it, and things are very difficult now that they are not.
See post #88
I listed the very essentials for being comfortable. The only wealth I had was internet.
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