Forum
»
More General Categories
»
Misc.
» Is this paedo-panic just the Satanic panic all over again?
03-07-2024, 03:24 PM
#871
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
That does not matter. It showed those with gender dysphoria have a higher suicide and depression rate than that of the general public & placing them on hormone Thearpy or undergoing operation only increased their suicide rate & depression.
Like I said when you posted it. The control group is incorrect for the inference you're trying to draw.
It did not show an increase with gender affirming care in the with gender dysphoria.
It did not show an increase with gender affirming care in the with gender dysphoria.
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
Quote
03-07-2024, 03:25 PM
#872
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Because the drugs are being used to treat the symptoms and not the cause..as with most all modern day drugs.
Still wondering
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 03:28 PM
#873
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
That's different from men on TRT and women on HRT?
Because the drugs are being used to treat the symptoms and not the cause..as with most all modern day drugs.
03-07-2024, 03:31 PM
#874
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Men’s test levels drop naturally with age, most are on TRT to bring up from a low level not trying to change their gender.
That's different from men on TRT and women on HRT?
Different applications
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 03:33 PM
#875
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Of course it matters.
That does not matter. It showed those with gender dysphoria have a higher suicide and depression rate than that of the general public & placing them on hormone Thearpy or undergoing operation only increased their suicide rate & depression.
The study you posted shows that people with gender dysphoria are an at-risk group for depression and suicide relative to those without gender dysphoria.
Other work shows that gender affirming care lowers the risk of depression and suicide in those with gender dysphoria.
You are claiming that gender affirming care in those with gender dysphoria is associated with higher risk of depression and suicide.
You have not provided support for the claim.
Rather, you and others have stated that testosterone (in particular) is a universally effective anti-depressant. But, you do not feel those with gender dysphoria should have access to (the same doses of) testosterone because…..reasons.
03-07-2024, 03:33 PM
#876
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Same drugs.
Men’s test levels drop naturally with age, most are on TRT to bring up from a low level not trying to change their gender.
Different applications
Different applications
Same doses.
Same risks.
Same benefits.
03-07-2024, 03:38 PM
#877
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Once again.. That does not matter. It showed those with gender dysphoria have a higher suicide and depression rate than that of the general public & placing them on hormone Thearpy or undergoing operation only increased their suicide rate & depression to that of the general public. The conclusion would be to treat the gender dysphoria with mental Thearpy not affirm it with drugs that put you in a elevated synthetic form of pleasure..
Of course it matters.
The study you posted shows that people with gender dysphoria are an at-risk group for depression and suicide relative to those without gender dysphoria.
Other work shows that gender affirming care lowers the risk of depression and suicide in those with gender dysphoria.
You are claiming that gender affirming care in those with gender dysphoria is associated with higher risk of depression and suicide.
You have not provided support for the claim.
Rather, you and others have stated that testosterone (in particular) is a universally effective anti-depressant. But, you do not feel those with gender dysphoria should have access to (the same doses of) testosterone because…..reasons.
The study you posted shows that people with gender dysphoria are an at-risk group for depression and suicide relative to those without gender dysphoria.
Other work shows that gender affirming care lowers the risk of depression and suicide in those with gender dysphoria.
You are claiming that gender affirming care in those with gender dysphoria is associated with higher risk of depression and suicide.
You have not provided support for the claim.
Rather, you and others have stated that testosterone (in particular) is a universally effective anti-depressant. But, you do not feel those with gender dysphoria should have access to (the same doses of) testosterone because…..reasons.
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 03:39 PM
#878
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Of course supporting the claim matters.
Once again.. That does not matter. It showed those with gender dysphoria have a higher suicide and depression rate than that of the general public & placing them on hormone Thearpy or undergoing operation only increased their suicide rate & depression to that of the general public. The conclusion would be to treat the gender dysphoria with mental Thearpy not affirm it with drugs that put you in a elevated synthetic form of pleasure..
You are completely misrepresenting the study and its findings.
Why is okay for men on TRT (same "drugs") to be in an "elevated synthetic form of pleasure" (whatever that's supposed to mean)?
You previously attributed all benefit from gender affirming care on mental health to hormone therapy.
Now hormone therapy makes mental health worse?
03-07-2024, 03:44 PM
#879
Doctors admit link between transgender hormone therapy and cancer in leaked emails
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/doct...070000223.html
“The WPATH Files show that what is called ‘gender medicine’ is neither science nor medicine,” he said.
“The experiments are not randomised, double-blind, or controlled. It’s not medicine since the first rule is to do no harm. And that requires informed consent.
“Activist members of WPATH know that the so-called ‘gender-affirming care’ they provide can result in life-long complications and sterility and that their patients do not understand the implications, such as loss of sexual function and the ability to experience orgasm.
“These leaked files show overwhelming evidence that the professionals within WPATH know that they are not getting consent from children, adolescents, and vulnerable adults, or their caregivers.”
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/doct...070000223.html
“The WPATH Files show that what is called ‘gender medicine’ is neither science nor medicine,” he said.
“The experiments are not randomised, double-blind, or controlled. It’s not medicine since the first rule is to do no harm. And that requires informed consent.
“Activist members of WPATH know that the so-called ‘gender-affirming care’ they provide can result in life-long complications and sterility and that their patients do not understand the implications, such as loss of sexual function and the ability to experience orgasm.
“These leaked files show overwhelming evidence that the professionals within WPATH know that they are not getting consent from children, adolescents, and vulnerable adults, or their caregivers.”
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 96,888
- Rep Power: 316,531
-
03-07-2024, 03:45 PM
#880
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Because gender dysphoria is a mental condition that should be treated with psychiatric help and not affirmed with synthetic drugs that alter mood.
Of course supporting the claim matters.
You are completely misrepresenting the study and its findings.
Why is okay for men on TRT (same "drugs") to be in an "elevated synthetic form of pleasure" (whatever that's supposed to mean)?
You are completely misrepresenting the study and its findings.
Why is okay for men on TRT (same "drugs") to be in an "elevated synthetic form of pleasure" (whatever that's supposed to mean)?
I don’t consider men that are on TRT to be mentally disturbed
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 03:47 PM
#881
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Taking hormones comes with risks - for everyone.
Doctors admit link between transgender hormone therapy and cancer in leaked emails
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/doct...070000223.html
“The WPATH Files show that what is called ‘gender medicine’ is neither science nor medicine,” he said.
“The experiments are not randomised, double-blind, or controlled. It’s not medicine since the first rule is to do no harm. And that requires informed consent.
“Activist members of WPATH know that the so-called ‘gender-affirming care’ they provide can result in life-long complications and sterility and that their patients do not understand the implications, such as loss of sexual function and the ability to experience orgasm.
“These leaked files show overwhelming evidence that the professionals within WPATH know that they are not getting consent from children, adolescents, and vulnerable adults, or their caregivers.”
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/doct...070000223.html
“The WPATH Files show that what is called ‘gender medicine’ is neither science nor medicine,” he said.
“The experiments are not randomised, double-blind, or controlled. It’s not medicine since the first rule is to do no harm. And that requires informed consent.
“Activist members of WPATH know that the so-called ‘gender-affirming care’ they provide can result in life-long complications and sterility and that their patients do not understand the implications, such as loss of sexual function and the ability to experience orgasm.
“These leaked files show overwhelming evidence that the professionals within WPATH know that they are not getting consent from children, adolescents, and vulnerable adults, or their caregivers.”
03-07-2024, 03:50 PM
#882
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
But your average male or female using hormone Thearpy is not using to justify a disturbed mental condition
Taking hormones comes with risks - for everyone.
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 03:54 PM
#883
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
If that's the basis of your opposition, that's fine by me.
But your average male or female using hormone Thearpy is not using to justify a disturbed mental condition
I disagree and don't think anyone is trying to justify anything. But, I acknowledge everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
03-07-2024, 03:58 PM
#884
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Of course they are trying to justify their conditions, we see that with the so called treatments being offered. They affirm their condition rather than treat their condition
If that's the basis of your opposition, that's fine by me.
I disagree and don't think anyone is trying to justify anything. But, I acknowledge everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
I disagree and don't think anyone is trying to justify anything. But, I acknowledge everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 04:00 PM
#885
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
So maybe those who want to take them, should wait till they're 18 years old?
Taking hormones comes with risks - for everyone.
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 96,888
- Rep Power: 316,531
-
03-07-2024, 04:01 PM
#886
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Here, there are screening and counseling/therapy requirements before GAHT. These are all treatments.
Of course they are trying to justify their conditions, we see that with the so called treatments being offered. They affirm their condition rather than treat their condition
The T in GAHT stands for "therapy".
Affirming =/= justifying
03-07-2024, 04:05 PM
#887
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Maybe!
So maybe those who want to take them, should wait till they're 18 years old?
03-07-2024, 04:17 PM
#888
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
But the drugs enhance mood, by their very nature they are justifying a mental condition..that’s the point.
Here, there are screening and counseling/therapy requirements before GAHT. These are all treatments.
The T in GAHT stands for "therapy".
Affirming =/= justifying
The T in GAHT stands for "therapy".
Affirming =/= justifying
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 04:18 PM
#889
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I don’t know where “here” is but that is not the case in the US..
Here, there are screening and counseling/therapy requirements before GAHT. These are all treatments.
The T in GAHT stands for "therapy".
Affirming =/= justifying
The T in GAHT stands for "therapy".
Affirming =/= justifying
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 04:38 PM
#890
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
But the drugs enhance mood, by their very nature they are justifying a mental condition..that’s the point.
Affirmation has been demonstrated to be an effective treatment for gender dysphoria.
Denial has not been demonstrated to be an effective treatment for gender dysphoria.
03-07-2024, 04:38 PM
#891
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Canada.
I don’t know where “here” is but that is not the case in the US..
03-07-2024, 04:41 PM
#892
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
.
See 2c.
.
Thank you for proving the point.
Edit-of your first link..stop editing your posts.
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 04:47 PM
#893
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
lol, no wonder.
Canada.
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 05:12 PM
#894
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
"Archaic"
See 2c.
Thank you for proving the point.
Edit-of your first link..stop editing your posts.
Thank you for proving the point.
Edit-of your first link..stop editing your posts.
Doesn't seem like something a physician can do, but doesn't seem too bad either. Do you think people should be punished rather than forgiven for having a mental condition?
Current treatments work much better than conversion therapy.
03-07-2024, 05:28 PM
#895
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
"Archaic"
Doesn't seem like something a physician can do, but doesn't seem too bad either. Do you think people should be punished rather than forgiven for having a mental condition?
Current treatments work much better than conversion therapy.
Doesn't seem like something a physician can do, but doesn't seem too bad either. Do you think people should be punished rather than forgiven for having a mental condition?
Current treatments work much better than conversion therapy.
2c-Absolve
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 05:53 PM
#896
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Yes. That's what it means (the definition I posted is the same) and I don't think it's fitting. How can a physician remove blame or forgive a patient?
2c-Absolve
You feel people should be blamed and/or punished for having a mental condition?
Conversion therapy has some pretty terrible outcomes.
03-07-2024, 05:57 PM
#897
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
But your argument is that if they wait that long, they might kill themselves.
Maybe!
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 96,888
- Rep Power: 316,531
-
03-07-2024, 06:02 PM
#898
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Nope
But your argument is that if they wait that long, they might kill themselves.
03-07-2024, 06:08 PM
#899
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Red Herring.
Yes. That's what it means (the definition I posted is the same) and I don't think it's fitting. How can a physician remove blame or forgive a patient?
You feel people should be blamed and/or punished for having a mental condition?
Conversion therapy has some pretty terrible outcomes.
You feel people should be blamed and/or punished for having a mental condition?
Conversion therapy has some pretty terrible outcomes.
Never once did I say physician although most that are performing these surgeries are doing it without proper treatment of the child first ie: psychiatric help.
The drugs themselves absolve suicidal thoughts & depression as they have shown to do.
So once again, prescribing drugs to cover the symptoms is not addressing the cause.
Believing that a person needs to be given drugs that chemically castrate themselves in order for them not to commit suicide is absurd
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
-
- Paul Kreul
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2006
- Location: United States
- Posts: 17,622
- Rep Power: 248,259
-
03-07-2024, 06:16 PM
#900
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
You said providing GAHT justifies a mental illness, then defined justification as meaning to absolve.
Red Herring.
Never once did I say physician although most that are performing these surgeries are doing it without proper treatment of the child first ie: psychiatric help.
The drugs themselves absolve suicidal thoughts & depression as they have shown to do.
So once again, prescribing drugs to cover the symptoms is not addressing the cause.
Never once did I say physician although most that are performing these surgeries are doing it without proper treatment of the child first ie: psychiatric help.
The drugs themselves absolve suicidal thoughts & depression as they have shown to do.
So once again, prescribing drugs to cover the symptoms is not addressing the cause.
As shown in the definitions above, absolve is an archaic use of justify. Regardless, absolve means to remove blame or forgive.
Physicians prescribe and administer GAHT. Their profession does not function to remove blame nor to forgive. They do not absolve nor justify their patients' conditions.
Bookmarks
- Digg
- del.icio.us
- StumbleUpon
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts