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How Reddit Brought A Multi-Billion Dollar Hedge Fund To It's Knees
01-28-2021, 12:43 PM
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#1111
- nothingshocking
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Originally Posted By Rebel012⏩
no this is utter nonsenseThis is utter nonsense. Look at the share of IPOs issued in recent years compared to turnover on the secondary markets. Large companies can fund their investments via retained earnings and debt. The stock markets at this point exist for share buybacks, M&As, and so funds can make capital gains through short-term trades a d speculation. Going long still happens of course, but at least in the Anglo-countries, it's far less common. The only difference right now is that for a brief moment, the guns are trained in the opposite direction.
01-28-2021, 12:44 PM
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#1112
- applesux
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Losses on short positions in U.S. firms top $70 billion - Ortex data
Short-sellers are sitting on estimated losses of $70.87 billion from their short positions in U.S. companies so far this year, data from financial data analytics firm Ortex showed on Thursday.
The hefty losses come as shares of highly-shorted GameStop jumped more than 1,000% in the past week without a clear business reason, forcing short-sellers to buy back into the stock to cover potential losses -- defined as a short-squeeze -- while retail investors then piled in to benefit from the surge.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...c87d000147d4e3
Short-sellers are sitting on estimated losses of $70.87 billion from their short positions in U.S. companies so far this year, data from financial data analytics firm Ortex showed on Thursday.
The hefty losses come as shares of highly-shorted GameStop jumped more than 1,000% in the past week without a clear business reason, forcing short-sellers to buy back into the stock to cover potential losses -- defined as a short-squeeze -- while retail investors then piled in to benefit from the surge.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...c87d000147d4e3
01-28-2021, 12:44 PM
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#1113
- Destor
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- Destor
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Originally Posted By Dan_S⏩
How does naked short selling drive a company into bankruptcy? Srs questionI feel like you keep missing the part where what they did is illegal. They illegally shorted Gamestop for more than the number of outstanding shares, hoping to drive the company into bankruptcy so they can cash in on every share 1 and a half times.
And this is why feasibly, every single person on WSB can come out of this in the green, because not only does Melvin have to buy every share in existence, they have to do it one and a half times.
And this is why feasibly, every single person on WSB can come out of this in the green, because not only does Melvin have to buy every share in existence, they have to do it one and a half times.
01-28-2021, 12:45 PM
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#1114
01-28-2021, 12:46 PM
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#1115
- AltarOfPlagues
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- AltarOfPlagues
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Originally Posted By SkiGains⏩
the stock has held on despite all these brokers delisting the stock!how you brahs coping with the losses? I took a 7% loss on my whole account after making steady gains for the past 6 months. Feelsbadman.jpg. Had a chit workout because of it too
do not read my posts and weep, i am not there i do not sleep
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of memes and trolls in toasted breads, i am not there, i am not dead.
01-28-2021, 12:47 PM
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#1116
01-28-2021, 12:48 PM
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#1117
- MiscInformed
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- MiscInformed
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
I'm not defending anybody who is part of Wall Street. They are my enemy. Wall Street and banks are 100% in the tank for democRATs. They fund the democRAT party (along with lawyers and the CCP). They are the worst kind of crony capitalists. It was they who Lenin referred to when he said, "when the time comes to hang the capitalists, they will bid against each other for the sale of the rope!"I'd like to know who the 7 clients of Melvin Capital are...
"Melvin Capital Management is based out of New York. Melvin Capital Management is a hedge fund with 7 clients and discretionary assets under management"
https://whalewisdom.com/filer/melvin...-management-lp
Also after the above stating that Melvin Capital is based in New York...
"Indeed, New York City’s largest public pension plan this month said it was exiting all hedge fund investments. It was “the latest sign that the $4 trillion public pension sector is losing patience with these often secretive portfolios at a time of poor performance and high fees,” according to a recent report from Reuters.
“The board of the New York City Employees Retirement System voted to leave blue chip firms such as Brevan Howard and D.E. Shaw after their consultants said they can reach their targeted investment returns with less risky funds,” according to Reuters.
“Hedges have underperformed, costing us millions,” said a New York pension official. “Let them sell their summer homes and jets, and return those fees to investors.”"
https://www.zamansky.com/hedge-funds...401k-accounts/
So at least we know that the largest Pension Fund in New York is not a client of Melvin Capital.
Also, to repeat what I said earlier... Wheres is the concern for the people affected when Hedge Funds like Melvin Capital drive company stocks to zero through short selling?
"Melvin Capital Management is based out of New York. Melvin Capital Management is a hedge fund with 7 clients and discretionary assets under management"
https://whalewisdom.com/filer/melvin...-management-lp
Also after the above stating that Melvin Capital is based in New York...
"Indeed, New York City’s largest public pension plan this month said it was exiting all hedge fund investments. It was “the latest sign that the $4 trillion public pension sector is losing patience with these often secretive portfolios at a time of poor performance and high fees,” according to a recent report from Reuters.
“The board of the New York City Employees Retirement System voted to leave blue chip firms such as Brevan Howard and D.E. Shaw after their consultants said they can reach their targeted investment returns with less risky funds,” according to Reuters.
“Hedges have underperformed, costing us millions,” said a New York pension official. “Let them sell their summer homes and jets, and return those fees to investors.”"
https://www.zamansky.com/hedge-funds...401k-accounts/
So at least we know that the largest Pension Fund in New York is not a client of Melvin Capital.
Also, to repeat what I said earlier... Wheres is the concern for the people affected when Hedge Funds like Melvin Capital drive company stocks to zero through short selling?
I just wanted to point out that the elite have protected themselves in ways you don't realize. When they gamble big, they gamble with the little peoples' money. When they get caught, they get bailed out. Banks are bigger and richer now after Obama's mandatory bailout of banks in his first term. The only people - THE ONLY PEOPLE - who lost it all during the housing/banking collapse during the Great Recession was the middle class. Some Wall Street firms and banks went bust, but they all got their golden parachutes on the way out of the doors. Those execs and employees did fine. The people whose money they lost? Not so much.
I hate banks. I hate Wall Street. I hate big business. They are all the enemies of anyone who values fairness and honesty.
"Buy a man eat fish, the day, teach man, to lifetime." - Joe Biden
2022 New Year's Resolution: Randomly neg TheScapeGOAT for lulz.
01-28-2021, 12:49 PM
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#1118
- BigBallsMcgee
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
Hedgefunds will get bailouts. I was talking about the ethics of their original move to short sell anyway, not the attempt to the bring them down.Where exactly do you think hedge funds get their money?
It's from investors. Institutional most likely. That means pension funds, etc. Let's not pretend that little people aren't going to be hurt too if a hedge fund goes under. If a big chunk of your life savings or retirement fund is tied up in a hedge fund and the fund goes under, you don't magically get your money back. Every trade has 2 winners and a loser. Don't assume the only losers here are billionaires and millionaires.
It's from investors. Institutional most likely. That means pension funds, etc. Let's not pretend that little people aren't going to be hurt too if a hedge fund goes under. If a big chunk of your life savings or retirement fund is tied up in a hedge fund and the fund goes under, you don't magically get your money back. Every trade has 2 winners and a loser. Don't assume the only losers here are billionaires and millionaires.
01-28-2021, 12:49 PM
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#1119
- Destor
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- Destor
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Melvin isn't the only hedge fund being affected by this, shorts are being cleared out and portfolios repositioned all over the placeI'd like to know who the 7 clients of Melvin Capital are...
"Melvin Capital Management is based out of New York. Melvin Capital Management is a hedge fund with 7 clients and discretionary assets under management"
https://whalewisdom.com/filer/melvin...-management-lp
Also after the above stating that Melvin Capital is based in New York...
"Indeed, New York City’s largest public pension plan this month said it was exiting all hedge fund investments. It was “the latest sign that the $4 trillion public pension sector is losing patience with these often secretive portfolios at a time of poor performance and high fees,” according to a recent report from Reuters.
“The board of the New York City Employees Retirement System voted to leave blue chip firms such as Brevan Howard and D.E. Shaw after their consultants said they can reach their targeted investment returns with less risky funds,” according to Reuters.
“Hedges have underperformed, costing us millions,” said a New York pension official. “Let them sell their summer homes and jets, and return those fees to investors.”"
https://www.zamansky.com/hedge-funds...401k-accounts/
So at least we know that the largest Pension Fund in New York is not a client of Melvin Capital.
Also, to repeat what I said earlier... Wheres is the concern for the people affected when Hedge Funds like Melvin Capital drive company stocks to zero through short selling?
"Melvin Capital Management is based out of New York. Melvin Capital Management is a hedge fund with 7 clients and discretionary assets under management"
https://whalewisdom.com/filer/melvin...-management-lp
Also after the above stating that Melvin Capital is based in New York...
"Indeed, New York City’s largest public pension plan this month said it was exiting all hedge fund investments. It was “the latest sign that the $4 trillion public pension sector is losing patience with these often secretive portfolios at a time of poor performance and high fees,” according to a recent report from Reuters.
“The board of the New York City Employees Retirement System voted to leave blue chip firms such as Brevan Howard and D.E. Shaw after their consultants said they can reach their targeted investment returns with less risky funds,” according to Reuters.
“Hedges have underperformed, costing us millions,” said a New York pension official. “Let them sell their summer homes and jets, and return those fees to investors.”"
https://www.zamansky.com/hedge-funds...401k-accounts/
So at least we know that the largest Pension Fund in New York is not a client of Melvin Capital.
Also, to repeat what I said earlier... Wheres is the concern for the people affected when Hedge Funds like Melvin Capital drive company stocks to zero through short selling?
You can be sure orgs like pension plans and unions will be hit by this along with the funds themselves. Institutional investors are some of the few entities with pockets deep enough to use hedges, despite the fact that hedge funds don't beat the major indices over the long term and charge insane fees for their services
So if you want to point the finger, you should probably point it at institutional investors who pay hedge funds to engage in these practices. But don't point too hard because we still want institutional investors buying into crypto and other things that benefit us right
01-28-2021, 12:51 PM
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#1120
- Swaggod9k
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Even after the massive coordinated effort between government and institutional investors to stop the GME, AMC, and BB gainz today.
They are still holding strong.
Today is proof that us small retail investors have the power on this trade!
Can't wait to see this moon to Infinity tomorrow or Monday.
They are still holding strong.
Today is proof that us small retail investors have the power on this trade!
Can't wait to see this moon to Infinity tomorrow or Monday.
01-28-2021, 12:52 PM
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#1121
- BigBallsMcgee
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Originally Posted By luckyboy23⏩
You werent wrong to ignore bitcoin or meme stocks. Obviously looking back you can see the miss but in the moment its not like it looked like a smart move. Rolling the dice and winning doesnt mean rolling the dice is smartMy post in the trading thread.
01-28-2021, 12:52 PM
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#1122
01-28-2021, 12:52 PM
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#1123
- MiscInformed
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
Predatory class action lawsuits from ambulance chasing lawyers like Bill Lerach. That's one indirect way that companies can be ruined by stock market manipulations beyond their control.How does naked short selling drive a company into bankruptcy? Srs question
"Buy a man eat fish, the day, teach man, to lifetime." - Joe Biden
2022 New Year's Resolution: Randomly neg TheScapeGOAT for lulz.
01-28-2021, 12:53 PM
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#1124
- BigBallsMcgee
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Originally Posted By Amp30⏩
hold to the end fukin cuckMight as well stay in at this rate, right? I have no trust in the market, and I have no idea if this will plummet even more. Don't know if I should just take my losses and get out
01-28-2021, 12:54 PM
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#1125
- solidus2k3
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- solidus2k3
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power to the people
<HTC>
01-28-2021, 12:54 PM
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#1126
- DesiredUserphag
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dogecoin boyos WOOF WOOF
𝗣𝗨𝗥𝗘𝗕𝗟𝗢𝗢𝗗
ωσяℓ∂ тяανєℓєя ȼяєω ₅₀/₁₉₅
𝕬𝖊𝖘𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖙𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖑𝖑𝖞 𝕮𝖚𝖙 𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗 𝕽𝖆𝖈𝖊 ®
ᗪIᔕᑕᖇIᗰIᑎᗩTIOᑎ E᙭ᑕᒪᑌᔕIOᑎ IᑎᗪOᑕTᖇIᑎᗩTIOᑎ
01-28-2021, 12:54 PM
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#1127
- MuscleXtreme
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
Reps are Still on spreadI'm not defending anybody who is part of Wall Street. They are my enemy. Wall Street and banks are 100% in the tank for democRATs. They fund the democRAT party (along with lawyers and the CCP). They are the worst kind of crony capitalists. It was they who Lenin referred to when he said, "when the time comes to hang the capitalists, they will bid against each other for the sale of the rope!"
I just wanted to point out that the elite have protected themselves in ways you don't realize. When they gamble big, they gamble with the little peoples' money. When they get caught, they get bailed out. Banks are bigger and richer now after Obama's mandatory bailout of banks in his first term. The only people - THE ONLY PEOPLE - who lost it all during the housing/banking collapse during the Great Recession was the middle class. Some Wall Street firms and banks went bust, but they all got their golden parachutes on the way out of the doors. Those execs and employees did fine. The people whose money they lost? Not so much.
I hate banks. I hate Wall Street. I hate big business. They are all the enemies of anyone who values fairness and honesty.
I just wanted to point out that the elite have protected themselves in ways you don't realize. When they gamble big, they gamble with the little peoples' money. When they get caught, they get bailed out. Banks are bigger and richer now after Obama's mandatory bailout of banks in his first term. The only people - THE ONLY PEOPLE - who lost it all during the housing/banking collapse during the Great Recession was the middle class. Some Wall Street firms and banks went bust, but they all got their golden parachutes on the way out of the doors. Those execs and employees did fine. The people whose money they lost? Not so much.
I hate banks. I hate Wall Street. I hate big business. They are all the enemies of anyone who values fairness and honesty.
01-28-2021, 12:54 PM
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#1128
- Latinowarrior3
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Originally Posted By Dan_S⏩
China is coming through for usWebull just reallowed trading and AMC shot up 20%.
deadwoodgregg is my grandpa
01-28-2021, 12:55 PM
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#1129
- BigBallsMcgee
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- BigBallsMcgee
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Originally Posted By Dan_S⏩
I dont think its illegal, it probably should be but I dont think they made an openly illegal bet and nobody noticed or cared from the SECI feel like you keep missing the part where what they did is illegal. They illegally shorted Gamestop for more than the number of outstanding shares, hoping to drive the company into bankruptcy so they can cash in on every share 1 and a half times.
01-28-2021, 12:57 PM
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#1130
- MuscleXtreme
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- MuscleXtreme
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Originally Posted By Nicklol⏩
Holding onto my measlies in BB.what ppl doing today?
I sold my NAKD shares. I should have gotten into that for $1000 yesterday when it was .32. Could have made a cool $3k.
01-28-2021, 12:57 PM
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#1131
01-28-2021, 12:59 PM
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#1132
- BetaAsPhuck
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- BetaAsPhuck
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
I agree that it's not just Melvin.Melvin isn't the only hedge fund being affected by this, shorts are being cleared out and portfolios repositioned all over the place
You can be sure orgs like pension plans and unions will be hit by this along with the funds themselves. Institutional investors are some of the few entities with pockets deep enough to use hedges, despite the fact that hedge funds don't beat the major indices over the long term and charge insane fees for their services
You can be sure orgs like pension plans and unions will be hit by this along with the funds themselves. Institutional investors are some of the few entities with pockets deep enough to use hedges, despite the fact that hedge funds don't beat the major indices over the long term and charge insane fees for their services
However, I hope this sends a clear message to Hedge Funds, and clients of Hedge Funds who have no problem funding what Melvin Capital did. This will hopefully help to stop thing like naked shorting to intentionally bankrupt companies.
GME is not the first (and potential won't be the last) company that naked shorting hedge funds try to bankrupt for profit. Hopefully, this helps to stop this trend.
The 'average joe' will get harmed either way, at least in this way there is a massive transfer of wealth from Wall Street executive to Main Street (who will hopefully take care of their parents with the money they make).
So if you want to point the finger, you should probably point it at institutional investors who pay hedge funds to engage in these practices. But don't point too hard because we still want institutional investors buying into crypto and other things that benefit us right
I'd honestly prefer the crypto market to be retail driven, but that's not going to happen.I hope though that like MiscInformed quoted, institutions pumping money into crypto is buying the rope to hang themselves.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621
The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851
Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
01-28-2021, 12:59 PM
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#1133
Originally Posted By Destor⏩
It's sort of indirectly drives them into bankruptcy or a hostile take over because they drive down the price. They can also buy the company (called a hostile takeover) and do whatever they like at that point. Depends on their intentions. If their actions of driving down the price causes enough panic, others sell and they profit on the bankruptcy.How does naked short selling drive a company into bankruptcy? Srs question
You can google it to learn more, this is just from memory.
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♞♞♞ Misc Horse Head Crew ♞♞♞
01-28-2021, 01:00 PM
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#1134
- Destor
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- Destor
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
That's a little bit out there though eh. The idea that stock price movements have this type of bearing on companies outside of indirect impacts -- like your example, the ability to use market cap to secure cheaper financing, or raising funds through selling new stock at high prices, etc -- says a lot about the current state of the market IMOPredatory class action lawsuits from ambulance chasing lawyers like Bill Lerach. That's one indirect way that companies can be ruined by stock market manipulations beyond their control.
Businesses are NOT their stocks. Businesses provide a service/good for revenue, incur costs, and hopefully generate profit. Those are the fundamentals, and stock price action is this sometimes-crazy chit happening on the side
01-28-2021, 01:02 PM
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#1135
- BetaAsPhuck
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
He was wrong about Bitcoin.You werent wrong to ignore bitcoin or meme stocks. Obviously looking back you can see the miss but in the moment its not like it looked like a smart move. Rolling the dice and winning doesnt mean rolling the dice is smart
There were investors (e.g. Roger Ver) who saw that the underlying technology of Bitcoin was revolutionary, and that Bitcoin was only a beginning and wasn't going anywhere. That was a smart move. He saw a new technology, and he was right. Roger Ver was a millionaire before he invested in Bitcoin, through mainly selling tech.
He wasn't the only one. Early investors of Ethereum also saw how revolutionary it was, and they were right.
They didn't just throw money in without research, they did a lot of research and believed that it had long term potential, and they were right.
Venture capitalists often do that, but noone says they are 'rolling the dice' when they invest in start ups. So why say that about people who were astute enough to research and invest in emerging technology?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621
The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851
Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
01-28-2021, 01:04 PM
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#1136
01-28-2021, 01:06 PM
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#1137
- BigBallsMcgee
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
you're only saying that in hindsight. at the time, its just a one of many niche tech things most of which dont amount to much.He was wrong about Bitcoin.
There were investors (e.g. Roger Ver) who saw that the underlying technology of Bitcoin was revolutionary, and that Bitcoin was only a beginning and wasn't going anywhere. That was a smart move. He saw a new technology, and he was right. Roger Ver was a millionaire before he invested in Bitcoin, through mainly selling tech.
He wasn't the only one. Early investors of Ethereum also saw how revolutionary it was, and they were right.
They didn't just throw money in without research, they did a lot of research and believed that it had long term potential, and they were right.
Venture capitalists often do that, but noone says they are 'rolling the dice' when they invest in start ups. So why say that about people who were astute enough to research and invest in emerging technology?
There were investors (e.g. Roger Ver) who saw that the underlying technology of Bitcoin was revolutionary, and that Bitcoin was only a beginning and wasn't going anywhere. That was a smart move. He saw a new technology, and he was right. Roger Ver was a millionaire before he invested in Bitcoin, through mainly selling tech.
He wasn't the only one. Early investors of Ethereum also saw how revolutionary it was, and they were right.
They didn't just throw money in without research, they did a lot of research and believed that it had long term potential, and they were right.
Venture capitalists often do that, but noone says they are 'rolling the dice' when they invest in start ups. So why say that about people who were astute enough to research and invest in emerging technology?
Venture capitalists roll the dice too. They bet on different people and business ideas and hope some hit. its not different than betting on a horse.
01-28-2021, 01:11 PM
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#1138
- ApeXXXPredator
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- ApeXXXPredator
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All of these stocks were stagnant and/or lost money today: KOSS, NAKD, NOK, EXPR, AMC.
01-28-2021, 01:17 PM
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#1139
- MiscInformed
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- MiscInformed
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
In the 90's, scumbags like Lerach were basically committing shakedowns against tech companies and getting away with it. Any company whose stock dropped for any reason came under attack. They'd get a guy who owned 1 share, file a class action suit, claim the company had lied to investors about their fundamentals, and demanded their discovery phase. That discovery phase had the potential to be so damaging just via interference with the day to day operations, that tech companies were basically quietly paying these clowns to go away, even though they knew the lawsuits were frivolous. The risk and expense of defending yourself was worse than just giving them a bunch of money to leave you alone. It was such a problem that there was even a ballot proposition to make this sort of scam illegal... Prop. 211.That's a little bit out there though eh. The idea that stock price movements have this type of bearing on companies outside of indirect impacts -- like your example, the ability to use market cap to secure cheaper financing, or raising funds through selling new stock at high prices, etc -- says a lot about the current state of the market IMO
Businesses are NOT their stocks. Businesses provide a service/good for revenue, incur costs, and hopefully generate profit. Those are the fundamentals, and stock price action is this sometimes-crazy chit happening on the side
Businesses are NOT their stocks. Businesses provide a service/good for revenue, incur costs, and hopefully generate profit. Those are the fundamentals, and stock price action is this sometimes-crazy chit happening on the side
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...ve-2961382.php
Repeated hits by this guy and his clones could ruin a company's stock price and ability to attract the best employees. I don't know if these sorts of lawsuits are still happening, but it's an example off the top of my head that this sort of stuff can trickle out of the market and into the real world.
Maybe not a direct impact for sure, but indirectly, shenanigans with a company's stock price really can hurt some companies.
"Buy a man eat fish, the day, teach man, to lifetime." - Joe Biden
2022 New Year's Resolution: Randomly neg TheScapeGOAT for lulz.
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