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Lion Air plane crashes with 188 on board
Lion Air plane crashes with 188 on board
10-29-2018, 02:26 PM
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#91
10-29-2018, 02:28 PM
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#92
Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
There are hundreds of people around you that also drive. You have zero control of them. Next time you're driving down a road at 45MPH with no lane dividers, think how you will react when someone suddenly veers right into you head on. I doubt you'll even have enough time to go "Oh.." as in oh chit!! before death.Probabilities aren't valid here. Car crashes and plane crashes are not random events.
I have control over my safety in a car. I don't have control in an airplane. .
I have control over my safety in a car. I don't have control in an airplane. .
Pilots are trained and constantly have to requalify. Every fukcer drives, even practically blind senior citizens. Lets not even talk about drunk drivers.
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10-29-2018, 03:01 PM
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#93
10-29-2018, 03:05 PM
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#94
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Any day can be your last. lol @ being scared to fly, but willingly drive to work every day (even more dangerous)
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10-29-2018, 03:07 PM
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#95
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Originally Posted By Critter5592⏩
You can survive a car crash, but if a place crashes, rarely will you survive.Any day can be your last. lol @ being scared to fly, but willingly drive to work every day (even more dangerous)
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10-29-2018, 03:22 PM
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#96
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Originally Posted By MuzzieChik786⏩
ok but you are very more likely to be in a car crash. My point is that it's an irrational fear. Look at how many flights go on every day, and how rare these events are.You can survive a car crash, but if a place crashes, rarely will you survive.
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10-29-2018, 03:33 PM
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#97
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Originally Posted By Cornetto1⏩
Rent a boat brah. inb4 captains of a ship now.Can’t even avoid poverty airlines because Air France lol
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10-29-2018, 03:35 PM
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#98
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Doesn't seem like it would be a mechanical issue. I am surprised no one has suggested an intentional crash such as a hijack/terror type scenario.
There are so many redundant policies and procedures put in place for the maintenance of aircraft, and then the pre-flight/run-up procedures where they literally test every single system. By the time the plane takes off, it has been looked at by many different people following very specific check-lists. Then I think about what it would take for a catastrophic failure.
That plane probably had 3 redundant and separate autopilot systems in case of a failure. It has multiple redundant hydraulic systems and can still fly with just one engine. Something I tell my passengers is "if we have an emergency, you won't even know about it until after we land safely and I tell you."
I am kind of weirded out by the people who are still afraid of flying ITT. Suggesting probability of survival is higher in a car crash than an aircraft incident is objectively in-accurate. When fatal aircraft accidents do happen, it makes national news so it seems like it is a bigger problem. Nearly 100 people die everyday in the US alone in car crashes. They just don't get national/world attention. There is no comparison. Vehicle motor crash is how many of us will die. Flying, regardless of how often you do it, is not.
There are so many redundant policies and procedures put in place for the maintenance of aircraft, and then the pre-flight/run-up procedures where they literally test every single system. By the time the plane takes off, it has been looked at by many different people following very specific check-lists. Then I think about what it would take for a catastrophic failure.
That plane probably had 3 redundant and separate autopilot systems in case of a failure. It has multiple redundant hydraulic systems and can still fly with just one engine. Something I tell my passengers is "if we have an emergency, you won't even know about it until after we land safely and I tell you."
I am kind of weirded out by the people who are still afraid of flying ITT. Suggesting probability of survival is higher in a car crash than an aircraft incident is objectively in-accurate. When fatal aircraft accidents do happen, it makes national news so it seems like it is a bigger problem. Nearly 100 people die everyday in the US alone in car crashes. They just don't get national/world attention. There is no comparison. Vehicle motor crash is how many of us will die. Flying, regardless of how often you do it, is not.
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10-29-2018, 03:38 PM
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#99
10-29-2018, 03:41 PM
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#100
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Originally Posted By MuzzieChik786⏩
Actually, in most plane crashes, people survive. It's more correct to say if a plane crashes, rarely you will die.You can survive a car crash, but if a place crashes, rarely will you survive.
Incidents like this Lion Air one are extremely rare of course, but they make the news, and for good reason. You mostly won't hear of the other incidents where no-one dies.
Seen a few other posts of people saying they will never fly. Aviation is by far one of the most tightly regulated industries there are. The maintenance, the training involved, the checks, the laws etc. have created a very safe environment. Unfortunately, some airlines/countries are much more lax, however, you shouldn't have anything to fear if you are flying from Europe or NA.
10-29-2018, 05:11 PM
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#101
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TFW Qantas is easily accessible.
Feels safe man.
Feels safe man.
10-29-2018, 05:57 PM
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#102
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Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
They called tower to return back to the airport. Still not enough info though..Doesn't seem like it would be a mechanical issue. I am surprised no one has suggested an intentional crash such as a hijack/terror type scenario.
Pilot
10-29-2018, 09:54 PM
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#103
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Twenty Ministry of Finance employees,[12] ten Audit Board of Indonesia employees,[13] two auditors from the Finance and Development Inspection Agency,[14] seven Bangka Belitung Regional People's Representative Council members,[15] three public attorneys,[16] and three judges of Indonesia's High Court and National Court[17] were among the passengers.
that normal for a lot of high ranking people?
10-30-2018, 03:28 PM
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#104
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On 30 October, The New York Times speculated that the accident had been caused by a faulty pitot tube.[33] Technical problems had been reported after the flight of the aircraft on the night before the accident. However, the CEO of Lion Air, Edward Sirait, said that the problems had been addressed in accordance with maintenance manuals issued by the manufacturer and that engineers had declared that the aircraft was ready for takeoff on the morning of the accident.[34]
air france 447 was also caused from pitot tube not working properly from ice crystals forming in it.
air france 447 was also caused from pitot tube not working properly from ice crystals forming in it.
10-31-2018, 09:23 PM
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#105
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Platform workers reportedly saw that the aircraft had crashed with a high nose down angle.[21]
The Australian government conducted a quick inspection on the safety records of Lion Air and later decided to ban every Australian citizen from boarding Lion Air as it was deemed to be unsafe. The Indonesian Ministry of Transportation Budi Karya Sumadi later stated that his ministry will hold talks with the Australian government on the ban.[46][47]
The chief executive officer of Lion Air, Edward Sirait, said the same aircraft had reported a "technical issue" on Sunday night (before this flight was a flight from Ngurah Rai International Airport, Bali, to Soekarno-Hatta International Airport, Jakarta), but had been cleared to fly on Monday. He said he would not ground the nine other MAX 8 aircraft in Lion Air's fleet.[14][48] On 30 October, however, Indonesia's Transportation Ministry ordered all of the country's airlines to conduct emergency inspections on their Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft. The ministry would also launch a special audit on Lion Air to see if there were problems with its management system.[49]
On 31 October, Transportation Minister Budi Karya Sumadi temporarily suspended Lion Air’s technical director Muhammad Arif from his duties and made it clear that his suspension was related to the crash investigation. Budi said the ministry had also suspended an unspecified number of Lion Air technicians who had cleared JT-610 to fly on its final flight.[50]
Authorities revealed that, as of 31 October, they haven't recovered a single intact body from the sea.[61]
Aviation experts noted that there were some abnormalities on the altitude and the airspeed of Flight 610. Just 3 minutes into the flight, Captain Suneja asked the controller for permission to return to the airport as there were problems with the flight control.[67] After 8 minutes into the flight, the plane had dropped for about 500 ft and its altitude continued to fluctuate. The mean airspeed of Flight 610 was around 300 knots, which was considered by experts to be unusual as, typically, flights at an altitude of lower than 8,000 ft doesn't have that much speed. 10 minutes into the flight, the plane had dropped to more than 3,000 ft. The last recorded position of the plane was at 2,500 ft.[68][69]
The Australian government conducted a quick inspection on the safety records of Lion Air and later decided to ban every Australian citizen from boarding Lion Air as it was deemed to be unsafe. The Indonesian Ministry of Transportation Budi Karya Sumadi later stated that his ministry will hold talks with the Australian government on the ban.[46][47]
The chief executive officer of Lion Air, Edward Sirait, said the same aircraft had reported a "technical issue" on Sunday night (before this flight was a flight from Ngurah Rai International Airport, Bali, to Soekarno-Hatta International Airport, Jakarta), but had been cleared to fly on Monday. He said he would not ground the nine other MAX 8 aircraft in Lion Air's fleet.[14][48] On 30 October, however, Indonesia's Transportation Ministry ordered all of the country's airlines to conduct emergency inspections on their Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft. The ministry would also launch a special audit on Lion Air to see if there were problems with its management system.[49]
On 31 October, Transportation Minister Budi Karya Sumadi temporarily suspended Lion Air’s technical director Muhammad Arif from his duties and made it clear that his suspension was related to the crash investigation. Budi said the ministry had also suspended an unspecified number of Lion Air technicians who had cleared JT-610 to fly on its final flight.[50]
Authorities revealed that, as of 31 October, they haven't recovered a single intact body from the sea.[61]
Aviation experts noted that there were some abnormalities on the altitude and the airspeed of Flight 610. Just 3 minutes into the flight, Captain Suneja asked the controller for permission to return to the airport as there were problems with the flight control.[67] After 8 minutes into the flight, the plane had dropped for about 500 ft and its altitude continued to fluctuate. The mean airspeed of Flight 610 was around 300 knots, which was considered by experts to be unusual as, typically, flights at an altitude of lower than 8,000 ft doesn't have that much speed. 10 minutes into the flight, the plane had dropped to more than 3,000 ft. The last recorded position of the plane was at 2,500 ft.[68][69]
10-31-2018, 09:28 PM
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#106
11-01-2018, 04:32 AM
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#107
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On 1 November, rescuers announced that they have found Flight 610's Flight Data Recorder (FDR), which was located at a depth of 32 meters. The FDR was recovered in good condition and was sent to Jakarta for further examination by investigators. The Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR), however, is yet to be found.[80]
There has been some speculation, as yet unproven, especially without information from the aircraft's flight data recorder, that the pitot tubes, used in the airspeed indication system, may have played a role in the crash; they have played a role in previous similar crashes.[90]
In-flight explosion, initially, was not ruled out by investigators. There were speculations that a device, such as handphone, had burned and exploded in mid-flight, as evidenced by a photo taken by the Indonesian National Disaster Management Agency, in which burnt handphones were recovered from the crash site. This explosion theory, however, was ruled out by police as examination on the victims and plane parts indicated that no explosion or fire had happened in mid-flight.[91][92]
There has been some speculation, as yet unproven, especially without information from the aircraft's flight data recorder, that the pitot tubes, used in the airspeed indication system, may have played a role in the crash; they have played a role in previous similar crashes.[90]
In-flight explosion, initially, was not ruled out by investigators. There were speculations that a device, such as handphone, had burned and exploded in mid-flight, as evidenced by a photo taken by the Indonesian National Disaster Management Agency, in which burnt handphones were recovered from the crash site. This explosion theory, however, was ruled out by police as examination on the victims and plane parts indicated that no explosion or fire had happened in mid-flight.[91][92]
11-01-2018, 04:35 AM
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#108
11-01-2018, 04:52 AM
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#109
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I fly a bit (23 times last year, both domestic and international, 11 times thus far this year), and I am definitely a nervous flyer.
I was fine until 5 years ago flying over Pacific Ocean hitting severe turbulence, scared the chit out of me, thought we were going down.
Even a couple of months ago, flying over the Bay of Bengal, hit awful turbulence for 2 hours straight, when you're up there in the clouds and the planes shaking, it can be quite unsettling.
But srsly, I'm not going to miss out on seeing the world because of that. It IS safe. And whilst you could die in a plane crash, you could also get cancer, hit by a drunk driver, crash your car fukn whatever, death is all around.
I was fine until 5 years ago flying over Pacific Ocean hitting severe turbulence, scared the chit out of me, thought we were going down.
Even a couple of months ago, flying over the Bay of Bengal, hit awful turbulence for 2 hours straight, when you're up there in the clouds and the planes shaking, it can be quite unsettling.
But srsly, I'm not going to miss out on seeing the world because of that. It IS safe. And whilst you could die in a plane crash, you could also get cancer, hit by a drunk driver, crash your car fukn whatever, death is all around.
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11-01-2018, 05:06 AM
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#110
11-01-2018, 05:12 AM
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#111
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Originally Posted By MEDITATE⏩
where?any of you guys seen the video from inside the plane just before it crashed?
11-01-2018, 08:40 AM
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#112
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This is why I hate flying. I get so freaking anxious when I’m on a plane. Imagine falling to your death and knowing you are falling to your death especially in the ocean. That is a terrible way to go.
11-01-2018, 08:47 AM
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#113
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Originally Posted By MuzzieChik786⏩
Objectively inaccurate. What are you basing that on? Have you read the thread?You can survive a car crash, but if a place crashes, rarely will you survive.
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11-01-2018, 08:47 AM
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#114
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Let's all be afraid to do anything and just stay home 24/7/365
Fuk that boring ass life. This thread made me book my next trip to Iceland in Dec ayyyyyyyyyyyyy
brb "Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day."
brb "In 2016, 412 people were killed in the United States in aviation accidents - nearly all in general aviation accidents and none on commercial passenger airlines. The odds of a plane crash are one for every 1.2 million flights, with odds of dying one in 11 million."
Fuk that boring ass life. This thread made me book my next trip to Iceland in Dec ayyyyyyyyyyyyy
brb "Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day."
brb "In 2016, 412 people were killed in the United States in aviation accidents - nearly all in general aviation accidents and none on commercial passenger airlines. The odds of a plane crash are one for every 1.2 million flights, with odds of dying one in 11 million."
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11-01-2018, 09:10 AM
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#115
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Originally Posted By Coolman468⏩
last trip i went to took 7 planes, i actually enjoy being on a plane, sometimes i go on trips more so to fly on a plane(if i could go on for free just to fly to another location and back would do it multiple times a year), seeing that things engine turning on and picking up sleep and taking off with that much weight and the landings i enjoy too. was surprised with air serbia filmed its landing, most smooth landing so far from what i can remember from any plane being on. was surprised every plane i went on this time around were all airbus no Boeing from all 7 planes.This is why I hate flying. I get so freaking anxious when I’m on a plane. Imagine falling to your death and knowing you are falling to your death especially in the ocean. That is a terrible way to go.
the air canada one was first time i ever experienced turbulance where plane actually dropped a good number of feet, actually held on to the seat in front literally felt like my heart was going up my body. weirdest feeling and also when we were landing felt like he was rushing or the plane was picking up a lot of speed compared to the air serbia where i didn't even notice the landing was busing looking out the window with my phone to get good video
also any time i go on a plane, i tell myself the moment the plane picks up speed my fate relies on the pilots and if anything were to happen so be it.
surprised also that no one clapped anymore after landings last time i went on them people would all clap after you'd land especially the long flights across oceans. Also noticed that when we went across atlantic we stayed close to the north of the atlantic like in a curve and staying by greenland and iceland(incase anything happens you're close to a landmass/airports to land not just a vast area of water). not sure if i never noticed back then i always thought we went straight across the atlantic which always had me wondering what happens if something goes wrong and you're in the middle of the ocean.
Originally Posted By VegasLifter26⏩
Platform workers reportedly saw that the aircraft had crashed with a high nose down angle. Authorities revealed that, as of 31 October, they have recovered no intact bodies from the sea.[77]wat if the plane nose dives into the water? i would imagine some people could survive the initial impact and then find a way to survive
hopefully that answers that question
11-01-2018, 09:27 AM
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#116
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Originally Posted By MEDITATE⏩
It was fake.any of you guys seen the video from inside the plane just before it crashed?
11-01-2018, 09:29 AM
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#117
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Police Hospital Chief Musyafak said that an examination of the body parts indicated that it was unlikely that there was an explosion or fire on the plane.[90]
11-01-2018, 09:30 AM
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#118
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Since this was a new Boeing and not a Scarebus, I'm blaming the pilots.
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11-01-2018, 11:40 AM
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#119
Originally Posted By Briisk⏩
Just the obscure name alone would make me go: "Nope".Lion air was banned from flying to European union for like 10 years.. recently just got the ban hammer removed. You know you're a ****ty airline to when you're banned from certain countries.
Flying 3rd world airlines is pretty sketchy, especially those southeast asians ones. No thx jeffery
Flying 3rd world airlines is pretty sketchy, especially those southeast asians ones. No thx jeffery
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11-01-2018, 11:53 AM
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#120
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[QUOTE=BalkanKing post_id=1565120031]Police Hospital Chief Musyafak said that an examination of the body parts indicated that it was unlikely that there was an explosion or fire on the plane.[90]
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/JT610_Pitch_and_Total_Velocity%3B_Total_duration_o f_the_flight.pimg][/QUOTE]Awesome graphic.
In less than 30 seconds the plane nosed down more than 10 degrees (not really significant), nosed up at total of 20 degrees to reach 10 degrees on the up side (not really significant), then nosed down 40 degrees (significant, probably exceeds the limitation for that airframe).
In less than 30 seconds. That must have been a hell of ride. It seems to me (an actual pilot), the quick changes at the end were reactions to try to go back level, but they overreacted. I wonder what caused that first nose down.
If you do not adjust the throttle at all, in a dive the aircraft will increase in speed, and in a climb it will decrease. That is why the speed came up when it nosed down. I am curious to see the altitude deviations that occurred during the last 30 seconds of flight.
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/JT610_Pitch_and_Total_Velocity%3B_Total_duration_o f_the_flight.pimg][/QUOTE]Awesome graphic.
In less than 30 seconds the plane nosed down more than 10 degrees (not really significant), nosed up at total of 20 degrees to reach 10 degrees on the up side (not really significant), then nosed down 40 degrees (significant, probably exceeds the limitation for that airframe).
In less than 30 seconds. That must have been a hell of ride. It seems to me (an actual pilot), the quick changes at the end were reactions to try to go back level, but they overreacted. I wonder what caused that first nose down.
If you do not adjust the throttle at all, in a dive the aircraft will increase in speed, and in a climb it will decrease. That is why the speed came up when it nosed down. I am curious to see the altitude deviations that occurred during the last 30 seconds of flight.
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