12-14-2020, 05:19 PM
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#91
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Originally Posted By OttomanEmpire⏩
No more or less likely than a dozen others, plus the very real likelihood it was actually someone we’ve never heard of.What about Jack the Ripper, you guys think Aaron Kosminski is a main suspect? One of the lead detectives back then wrote in in his memoirs that it was a lower class Polish Jew by the name of Kosminski. He said they took him to the station for ID and he knew that they were on to him and then he got sent to an asylum where he later died. The only weird thing in the memoir that doesn't match up he said he died shortly after being sent away yet he died in 1919.
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12-15-2020, 09:16 AM
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#92
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Originally Posted By samsbolton⏩
it takes evidence to search a home, the FBI learned from those bad searches how much evidence is needed to a solid search warrant that will not cause evidence to be dismissed.That had nothing to do with how Bundy was caught or convicted. Peter Sutcliffe was interviewed 9 times but never as an actual suspect, he wasn’t caught because of a horrendously bodged investigation, not because there wasn’t proof. The zodiac killer wasn’t being followed while he was active.
About the only serial killer I can think of who police knew his identity and let him run around was Gacy, and that was because of a bodged search of his home.
Like I said, the idea that serial killers are running around, identified, but can’t be convicted, is nonsense.
About the only serial killer I can think of who police knew his identity and let him run around was Gacy, and that was because of a bodged search of his home.
Like I said, the idea that serial killers are running around, identified, but can’t be convicted, is nonsense.
The FBI is also not the most heavily staffed agency in the world. A former SAC works in my building and I have had a lot of talks with him about how staffing and structure is within the FBI and the amount of officers actually looking into homicides per state is extremely low. It is definitely not enough for them to be able to follow around a suspect 24/7 for months on end.
You put too much faith in the FBI, a lot of them are great at their job but not all serial killers want as much attention as the ones who have books written about them and not all serial killers are as interesting of stories as the ones with books written about them. Some just kill to kill and theres nothing spectacular about their killings so it doesnt get the same media attention or even known by the FBI because the killings are random and using multiple methods.
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12-15-2020, 09:55 AM
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#93
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
I’m not going to fall out with you over this I know what you are trying to say, and I’m in the uk actually.. you are correct that generally, proof of certain crimes can be hard to gather and therefore they won’t come to trial despite fairly certain knowledge of the suspects guilt.it takes evidence to search a home, the FBI learned from those bad searches how much evidence is needed to a solid search warrant that will not cause evidence to be dismissed.
The FBI is also not the most heavily staffed agency in the world. A former SAC works in my building and I have had a lot of talks with him about how staffing and structure is within the FBI and the amount of officers actually looking into homicides per state is extremely low. It is definitely not enough for them to be able to follow around a suspect 24/7 for months on end.
You put too much faith in the FBI, a lot of them are great at their job but not all serial killers want as much attention as the ones who have books written about them and not all serial killers are as interesting of stories as the ones with books written about them. Some just kill to kill and theres nothing spectacular about their killings so it doesnt get the same media attention or even known by the FBI because the killings are random and using multiple methods.
The FBI is also not the most heavily staffed agency in the world. A former SAC works in my building and I have had a lot of talks with him about how staffing and structure is within the FBI and the amount of officers actually looking into homicides per state is extremely low. It is definitely not enough for them to be able to follow around a suspect 24/7 for months on end.
You put too much faith in the FBI, a lot of them are great at their job but not all serial killers want as much attention as the ones who have books written about them and not all serial killers are as interesting of stories as the ones with books written about them. Some just kill to kill and theres nothing spectacular about their killings so it doesnt get the same media attention or even known by the FBI because the killings are random and using multiple methods.
HOWEVER there are absolutely NOT serial killers running around, identified but unable to be arrested. Who, out of the hundreds convicted over the years, did the police actually suspect and follow? Gacy is literally the only one I can think of, and that’s entirely because they bodged the search of his place and thought he could lead them to the bodies.
Seriously, give me one example
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12-15-2020, 10:05 AM
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#94
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Originally Posted By samsbolton⏩
Thomas Hargrove said this and the FBI doesnt disagree with it as he used a lot of their data as well as municipal data all over the world investigating murder and serial killings for years. He is kind of the murder expert in analyzing data.I’m not going to fall out with you over this I know what you are trying to say, and I’m in the uk actually.. you are correct that generally, proof of certain crimes can be hard to gather and therefore they won’t come to trial despite fairly certain knowledge of the suspects guilt.
HOWEVER there are absolutely NOT serial killers running around, identified but unable to be arrested. Who, out of the hundreds convicted over the years, did the police actually suspect and follow? Gacy is literally the only one I can think of, and that’s entirely because they bodged the search of his place and thought he could lead them to the bodies.
Seriously, give me one example
HOWEVER there are absolutely NOT serial killers running around, identified but unable to be arrested. Who, out of the hundreds convicted over the years, did the police actually suspect and follow? Gacy is literally the only one I can think of, and that’s entirely because they bodged the search of his place and thought he could lead them to the bodies.
Seriously, give me one example
“There are more than 222,000 unsolved murders since 1980,” Hargrove said. “I'll say almost every major American city has multiple serial killers and multiple uncaught serial killers.” Hargrove pegs the current number of active serial killers in the U.S. at more than 2,000
You think of those 2,000 even if he is off by 1,000, of those 1,000, the FBI isnt aware of suspects in those? And as I said they dont have the manpower to 24/7 365 follow around every suspect of a serial killing because of the nature of the crime. Some serial killers may only strike 1-2 times a year if that.**worthless college major crew**
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12-15-2020, 10:11 AM
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#95
12-15-2020, 10:20 AM
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#96
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Originally Posted By Rooney15⏩
Yes, watched it last night.is the zodiac movie still on netflix?
Very nicely shot movie.
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12-15-2020, 01:14 PM
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#97
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
No, they aren’t aware in any reasonable way that would justify tailing anyone. They will have a tyre make or a shoe size perhaps, a hair colour etc.. if you have enough to investigate you can get it down to a reasonable number and then check alibis etc.Thomas Hargrove said this and the FBI doesnt disagree with it as he used a lot of their data as well as municipal data all over the world investigating murder and serial killings for years. He is kind of the murder expert in analyzing data.
You think of those 2,000 even if he is off by 1,000, of those 1,000, the FBI isnt aware of suspects in those? And as I said they dont have the manpower to 24/7 365 follow around every suspect of a serial killing because of the nature of the crime. Some serial killers may only strike 1-2 times a year if that.
You think of those 2,000 even if he is off by 1,000, of those 1,000, the FBI isnt aware of suspects in those? And as I said they dont have the manpower to 24/7 365 follow around every suspect of a serial killing because of the nature of the crime. Some serial killers may only strike 1-2 times a year if that.
Absolutely not the same thing as having A suspect that you tail or let run around until he is caught in the act.. It has never happened and would never happen.
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12-15-2020, 01:31 PM
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#98
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Originally Posted By samsbolton⏩
What happens when you have a guy who has been to three cities where women have died and he was there at the same time and was known by one of the females friends to have gone on a date with one of the women?No, they aren’t aware in any reasonable way that would justify tailing anyone. They will have a tyre make or a shoe size perhaps, a hair colour etc.. if you have enough to investigate you can get it down to a reasonable number and then check alibis etc.
Absolutely not the same thing as having A suspect that you tail or let run around until he is caught in the act.. It has never happened and would never happen.
Absolutely not the same thing as having A suspect that you tail or let run around until he is caught in the act.. It has never happened and would never happen.
Say local law enforcement investigated the murder, they find out Joe smith went out with Jane Lane 1 week before she was found dead. This information is sent to FBI database. FBI agent is investigating murders and finds out Joe Smith was in the same city as Jane Lane and went on that date, then 5 months later was in the same city as a woman who was murdered, then 6 months later was in a small town where another woman was murdered. They look over the reports and the evidence and find nothing linking Joe to any of the murders. Then they talk to more friends and family and find out he went on a date with another one of the women.
What physical evidence is there that he committed any crime? Would you say its reasonable that this could just be a coincidence?
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12-15-2020, 01:45 PM
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#99
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
I’m saying that in the real world it doesn’t happen and has never happened, and a million times more so with dna, cctv etc. I’ll ask you one more time to give me an actual example, out of the hundreds of serial murderers caught and tried, of anything like this happening, because I’ve never seen it and I’ve read most of them.What happens when you have a guy who has been to three cities where women have died and he was there at the same time and was known by one of the females friends to have gone on a date with one of the women?
Say local law enforcement investigated the murder, they find out Joe smith went out with Jane Lane 1 week before she was found dead. This information is sent to FBI database. FBI agent is investigating murders and finds out Joe Smith was in the same city as Jane Lane and went on that date, then 5 months later was in the same city as a woman who was murdered, then 6 months later was in a small town where another woman was murdered. They look over the reports and the evidence and find nothing linking Joe to any of the murders. Then they talk to more friends and family and find out he went on a date with another one of the women.
What physical evidence is there that he committed any crime? Would you say its reasonable that this could just be a coincidence?
Say local law enforcement investigated the murder, they find out Joe smith went out with Jane Lane 1 week before she was found dead. This information is sent to FBI database. FBI agent is investigating murders and finds out Joe Smith was in the same city as Jane Lane and went on that date, then 5 months later was in the same city as a woman who was murdered, then 6 months later was in a small town where another woman was murdered. They look over the reports and the evidence and find nothing linking Joe to any of the murders. Then they talk to more friends and family and find out he went on a date with another one of the women.
What physical evidence is there that he committed any crime? Would you say its reasonable that this could just be a coincidence?
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12-15-2020, 01:51 PM
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#100
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Originally Posted By samsbolton⏩
examples of what exactly? FBI will very rarely hone in on one suspect but keep a suspect pool in most cases. The only cases they put a task force on are ones that get media coverage or there is physical evidence. Even then the ones that got media coverage like BTK, Zodiac, Unibomber, Bundy, the police didnt go right from getting a name to an arrest. There was a period in all of them where the police had multiple suspects including the correct one until later they determined they had enough evidence for an arrest. But those are also the famous cases where someone ****ed up somewhere along the line, usually it was in their search for attention like BTK and unibomber, if they had actually wanted to stay concealed they would have never been caught, like Zodiac and the only reason Arthur Allen was a suspect was because he ran his mouth to someone early on and got his name put on the board.I’m saying that in the real world it doesn’t happen and has never happened, and a million times more so with dna, cctv etc. I’ll ask you one more time to give me an actual example, out of the hundreds of serial murderers caught and tried, of anything like this happening, because I’ve never seen it and I’ve read most of them.
If Unibomber had never done his manifesto he would have never been outted by his brother and would never have been caught, he may have even been a person of interest but hi manifesto was what gave them the evidence for the search warrant. Imagine if his name was given to the task force and he didnt write the manifesto, they would have had NOTHING to bring him in on or search his cabin.
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12-15-2020, 02:23 PM
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#101
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
Three of those four weren’t on any suspect lists.examples of what exactly? FBI will very rarely hone in on one suspect but keep a suspect pool in most cases. The only cases they put a task force on are ones that get media coverage or there is physical evidence. Even then the ones that got media coverage like BTK, Zodiac, Unibomber, Bundy, the police didnt go right from getting a name to an arrest. There was a period in all of them where the police had multiple suspects including the correct one until later they determined they had enough evidence for an arrest. But those are also the famous cases where someone ****ed up somewhere along the line, usually it was in their search for attention like BTK and unibomber, if they had actually wanted to stay concealed they would have never been caught, like Zodiac and the only reason Arthur Allen was a suspect was because he ran his mouth to someone early on and got his name put on the board.
If Unibomber had never done his manifesto he would have never been outted by his brother and would never have been caught, he may have even been a person of interest but hi manifesto was what gave them the evidence for the search warrant. Imagine if his name was given to the task force and he didnt write the manifesto, they would have had NOTHING to bring him in on or search his cabin.
If Unibomber had never done his manifesto he would have never been outted by his brother and would never have been caught, he may have even been a person of interest but hi manifesto was what gave them the evidence for the search warrant. Imagine if his name was given to the task force and he didnt write the manifesto, they would have had NOTHING to bring him in on or search his cabin.
What I asked you for was one guy who the police ‘knew’ to be a serial killer but couldn’t arrest him as they had no proof.
There aren’t any and never have been
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12-15-2020, 10:39 PM
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#102
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Originally Posted By samsbolton⏩
This one might be the closest. There's a movie on YouTube about it "Citizen X", it's pretty decent.Three of those four weren’t on any suspect lists.
What I asked you for was one guy who the police ‘knew’ to be a serial killer but couldn’t arrest him as they had no proof.
There aren’t any and never have been
What I asked you for was one guy who the police ‘knew’ to be a serial killer but couldn’t arrest him as they had no proof.
There aren’t any and never have been
First arrest and release
On 13 September 1984, Chikatilo was observed by two undercover detectives attempting to talk to young women at Rostov bus station. The detectives followed him as he wandered through the city, trying to approach women and committing acts of frotteurism in public places.[97] Upon Chikatilo's arrival at the city's central market he was arrested and held. A search of his belongings revealed a knife with a 20-centimetre (7.9 in) blade, several lengths of rope, and a jar of Vaseline.[98] He was also discovered to be under investigation for minor theft at one of his former employers, which gave the investigators the legal right to hold him for a prolonged period of time. Chikatilo's dubious background was uncovered, and his physical description matched the description of the man seen walking alongside Dmitry Ptashnikov prior to the boy's murder. A sample of Chikatilo's blood was taken; the results of which revealed his blood group to be type A,[99] whereas semen samples found upon a total of six victims murdered by the unknown killer throughout the spring and summer of 1984[100] had been classified by medical examiners to be type AB. Chikatilo's name was added to the card index file used by investigators; however, the results of his blood type analysis largely discounted him as being the unknown killer.[n 1]
Chikatilo was found guilty of theft of property from his previous employer[102] and sentenced to one year in prison, but was freed on 12 December 1984 after serving three months.[102]
On 8 October 1984 the head of the Russian Public Prosecutors Office formally linked twenty-three of Chikatilo's murders into one case and dropped all charges against the mentally handicapped youths who had previously confessed to the murders.[103]"
Second arrest
Upon his arrest, Chikatilo gave a statement claiming that the police were mistaken, and complained that he had also been arrested in 1984 for the same series of murders.[149] A strip-search of the suspect revealed a further piece of evidence: one of Chikatilo's fingers had a flesh wound. Medical examiners concluded the wound was from a human bite. Chikatilo's penultimate victim, Viktor Tishchenko, was a physically strong youth. At the crime scene, the police had found numerous signs of a ferocious physical struggle between the victim and his murderer. Although a finger bone was later found to be broken, and his fingernail had been bitten off, Chikatilo had never sought medical treatment for his injuries.[150]
A search of Chikatilo's belongings revealed he had been in possession of a folding knife and two lengths of rope. A sample of his blood was taken,[151] and he was placed in a cell inside the KGB headquarters in Rostov with a police informer, who was instructed to engage Chikatilo in conversation and elicit any information he could from him.[152] The next day, 21 November, formal questioning of Chikatilo began. The interrogation was performed by Issa Kostoyev. The strategy chosen by the police to elicit a confession was to lead Chikatilo to believe that he was a very sick individual in need of medical help. The intention was to give Chikatilo hope that if he confessed, he would not be prosecuted by reason of insanity. Police knew their case against Chikatilo was largely circumstantial, and under Soviet law, they had ten days in which they could legally hold a suspect before either charging or releasing him.
Blood group analysis
On 21 November, the results of Chikatilo's blood test again revealed his blood type to be type A and not type AB. Due to the amount of physical and circumstantial evidence investigators had thus far compiled, which indicated Chikatilo was indeed the murderer they had been pursuing, plus the fact that investigators had deduced the blood type of the murderer they had pursued using semen samples obtained from the clothing and bodies of fourteen of the victims as opposed to actual blood samples, investigators obtained a sample of Chikatilo's semen to test his blood type, the results of which confirmed that Chikatilo's semen was type AB, whereas his blood and saliva were type A.[153][n 3]
On 13 September 1984, Chikatilo was observed by two undercover detectives attempting to talk to young women at Rostov bus station. The detectives followed him as he wandered through the city, trying to approach women and committing acts of frotteurism in public places.[97] Upon Chikatilo's arrival at the city's central market he was arrested and held. A search of his belongings revealed a knife with a 20-centimetre (7.9 in) blade, several lengths of rope, and a jar of Vaseline.[98] He was also discovered to be under investigation for minor theft at one of his former employers, which gave the investigators the legal right to hold him for a prolonged period of time. Chikatilo's dubious background was uncovered, and his physical description matched the description of the man seen walking alongside Dmitry Ptashnikov prior to the boy's murder. A sample of Chikatilo's blood was taken; the results of which revealed his blood group to be type A,[99] whereas semen samples found upon a total of six victims murdered by the unknown killer throughout the spring and summer of 1984[100] had been classified by medical examiners to be type AB. Chikatilo's name was added to the card index file used by investigators; however, the results of his blood type analysis largely discounted him as being the unknown killer.[n 1]
Chikatilo was found guilty of theft of property from his previous employer[102] and sentenced to one year in prison, but was freed on 12 December 1984 after serving three months.[102]
On 8 October 1984 the head of the Russian Public Prosecutors Office formally linked twenty-three of Chikatilo's murders into one case and dropped all charges against the mentally handicapped youths who had previously confessed to the murders.[103]"
Second arrest
Upon his arrest, Chikatilo gave a statement claiming that the police were mistaken, and complained that he had also been arrested in 1984 for the same series of murders.[149] A strip-search of the suspect revealed a further piece of evidence: one of Chikatilo's fingers had a flesh wound. Medical examiners concluded the wound was from a human bite. Chikatilo's penultimate victim, Viktor Tishchenko, was a physically strong youth. At the crime scene, the police had found numerous signs of a ferocious physical struggle between the victim and his murderer. Although a finger bone was later found to be broken, and his fingernail had been bitten off, Chikatilo had never sought medical treatment for his injuries.[150]
A search of Chikatilo's belongings revealed he had been in possession of a folding knife and two lengths of rope. A sample of his blood was taken,[151] and he was placed in a cell inside the KGB headquarters in Rostov with a police informer, who was instructed to engage Chikatilo in conversation and elicit any information he could from him.[152] The next day, 21 November, formal questioning of Chikatilo began. The interrogation was performed by Issa Kostoyev. The strategy chosen by the police to elicit a confession was to lead Chikatilo to believe that he was a very sick individual in need of medical help. The intention was to give Chikatilo hope that if he confessed, he would not be prosecuted by reason of insanity. Police knew their case against Chikatilo was largely circumstantial, and under Soviet law, they had ten days in which they could legally hold a suspect before either charging or releasing him.
Blood group analysis
On 21 November, the results of Chikatilo's blood test again revealed his blood type to be type A and not type AB. Due to the amount of physical and circumstantial evidence investigators had thus far compiled, which indicated Chikatilo was indeed the murderer they had been pursuing, plus the fact that investigators had deduced the blood type of the murderer they had pursued using semen samples obtained from the clothing and bodies of fourteen of the victims as opposed to actual blood samples, investigators obtained a sample of Chikatilo's semen to test his blood type, the results of which confirmed that Chikatilo's semen was type AB, whereas his blood and saliva were type A.[153][n 3]
12-15-2020, 10:55 PM
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#103
12-15-2020, 10:59 PM
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#104
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Originally Posted By OttomanEmpire⏩
I had no idea this was possible, Brb getting a semen testChikatilo's semen was type AB, whereas his blood and saliva were type A
12-15-2020, 11:03 PM
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#105
12-16-2020, 03:17 AM
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#106
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Originally Posted By Sophus⏩
Terrible example, since there were many other suspects and Graysmith had to tell some right whoppers to make the case against him fit (the timing of the phone call to the maid, where he was living etc).His name was Arthur Leigh Allen...
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12-16-2020, 03:19 AM
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#107
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Originally Posted By OttomanEmpire⏩
Think I’ve seen the movie but it’s a long time since I’ve read about him properly, was never one of my favourites..This one might be the closest. There's a movie on YouTube about it "Citizen X", it's pretty decent.
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12-16-2020, 05:50 AM
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#108
12-16-2020, 06:29 AM
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#109
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Zodiac was a pussy & an amateur. Come at me Zodiac.
12-17-2020, 12:17 AM
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#110
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It was the librarian guy. The guy that looked exactly like the description, was already nuts, and was away the days of the killing. ****ing obvious in hindsight.
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