Log In

Your email is not your username

Register

If you were a member of the old Bodybuilding.com forums and would like to reuse your previous username, you can request it below. We use your email only for registration and do not store it. For more information, please see our Privacy Policy.

Confirm your email

A registration code was sent to your email. Enter it here.

Welcome

You have successfully setup your account.

Sign in

Quick Navigation Bottom Misc
Forum » New research shows CDC exaggerated the evidence for masks to fight COVID
  1. Results 91 to 120 of 252
  2. Page 4 of 9
  3. First
  5. 2
  6. 3
  7. 4
  8. 5
  9. 6
  11. Last

Thread: New research shows CDC exaggerated the evidence for masks to fight COVID

post 1676983663 02-11-2023, 09:38 AM
-
#91
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  3. Join Date: Jan 2005
  4. Location: Ill.
  5. Posts: 120,479
  6. Rep Power: 316531
Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
Now if we could just get some of you selfish Ronaholic fux to care about the environment and stop littering the world with them...

1.6 billion disposable masks entered the ocean in 2020 and will take 450 years to biodegrade
https://news.yahoo.com/1-6-billion-d...142813561.html

Mask litter is a worldwide problem with serious environmental ramifications, study shows
https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-n...ns-study-shows



According to Wincel, it's not that big of a deal......
post 1676983923 02-11-2023, 09:44 AM
-
#92
  1. ltsOgre
  2. I hate capitalism srs
  1. ltsOgre
  2. I hate capitalism srs
  3. Join Date: Feb 2020
  4. Posts: 5,313
  5. Rep Power: 0
Yes masks are a political symbol. But why is that necessarily a problem? It makes it easier to identify Trump supporters.
I hate capitalism srs
post 1676983993 02-11-2023, 09:46 AM
-
#93
  1. frankdtank20
  2. Registered User
  1. frankdtank20
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Nov 2020
  4. Posts: 27,464
  5. Rep Power: 171374
Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
Now if we could just get some of you selfish Ronaholic fux to care about the environment and stop littering the world with them...

1.6 billion disposable masks entered the ocean in 2020 and will take 450 years to biodegrade
https://news.yahoo.com/1-6-billion-d...142813561.html

Mask litter is a worldwide problem with serious environmental ramifications, study shows
https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-n...ns-study-shows



Fish are great to eat, except plastics and now masks are adding a big negative against eating them. Pass on the big fish which accumulate this trash more than smaller fish.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
post 1676984323 02-11-2023, 09:54 AM
-
#94
  1. frankdtank20
  2. Registered User
  1. frankdtank20
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Nov 2020
  4. Posts: 27,464
  5. Rep Power: 171374
Originally Posted By ltsOgre⏩
Yes masks are a political symbol. But why is that necessarily a problem? It makes it easier to identify Trump supporters.
Have you left your house in the last 2 years? Your comment strongly suggests the answer is no.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
post 1676984353 02-11-2023, 09:55 AM
-
#95
  1. Redfish225
  2. Hunter/Fisherbreh
  1. Redfish225
  2. Hunter/Fisherbreh
  3. Join Date: Aug 2012
  4. Posts: 69,167
  5. Rep Power: 903956
Question, how long will people cry about masks and Covid?
I loe e.
post 1676984643 02-11-2023, 10:00 AM
-
#96
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By frankdtank20⏩
He's an oncologist and professor of epidemiology at Stanford, not some random 'youtuber' trapped in a basement. He understands why the people trying to dismiss the Cochrane analysis are silly biches. And he actually understands real world implications from both epidemiology and seeing patients regularly. You want to split hairs between very insignificant and extremely insignificant, as you can't differentiate the real world difference between the numbers. I can tell from your posts you've never spent a minute in a clinical setting besides being a patient, nor worked on any medical studies. Rather your knowledge has happened by learning little bits and pieces here and there during Covid.

You will continue beating a dead horse argument you are wrong about for whatever reasons. There are many reasons people refuse to accept being wrong, so I could only speculate your reasons. Responding to your posts is a waste of time. It's like talking shop with someone that's never actually done any repairs on cars, but has read a few things about repairs.
I'm well aware of who he is.

Your take on my experience is incorrect and irrelevant.

Appeal to authority is also a fallacious argument.
post 1676985043 02-11-2023, 10:13 AM
-
#97
  1. JUSA
  2. No Agony, No Bragony
  1. JUSA
  2. No Agony, No Bragony
  3. Join Date: Nov 2004
  4. Location: Texas
  5. Posts: 50,517
  6. Rep Power: 458793
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I disagree.

Since infection and transmission rely on exposure (SEIR models), which is dependent on viral load, even an imperfect respirator will be of some use. We have enough data now to support the argument that mask, in particular respirators, help.

I disagree with the idea that without a brick wall 100% preventative measure that any mitigation efforts are useless, even when combined. It just doesn't flow logically for me.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
No, I was addressing a post from JUSA. I quoted it in my reply.
Sorry I did not reply, if only to nod and say gotcha or something. Don't take this the wrong way, and I actually admire this about you, but you wear me out sometimes.

I actually see this point and will pseudo-concede it.

While any attempt to get people to actually put on masks that work will not be 100%, if there is evidence to suggest some benefit, then sure. You seem to be a *lot* more optimistic about how Average Person would be about it, that they would find the right masks, have the knowledge to put them on properly and then follow through with it. I see that as a close to 0% success rate and I assumed you'd have to hit much higher levels to matter, but if any bit helps, then sure, having a handful of people wearing properly fitted N95 masks that have been replaced regularly, if they also happened to be infectious, it would help.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

- Arthur Schopenhauer
post 1676985383 02-11-2023, 10:23 AM
-
#98
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Sorry I did not reply, if only to nod and say gotcha or something. Don't take this the wrong way, and I actually admire this about you, but you wear me out sometimes.

I actually see this point and will pseudo-concede it.

While any attempt to get people to actually put on masks that work will not be 100%, if there is evidence to suggest some benefit, then sure. You seem to be a *lot* more optimistic about how Average Person would be about it, that they would find the right masks, have the knowledge to put them on properly and then follow through with it. I see that as a close to 0% success rate and I assumed you'd have to hit much higher levels to matter, but if any bit helps, then sure, having a handful of people wearing properly fitted N95 masks that have been replaced regularly, if they also happened to be infectious, it would help.
I agree these discussions are tedious.

I just find it disappointing when people take "masks don't work; trust me, bro" as truth, fact, or justification for non use.

Someone not wearing a mask because they don't want to is fine by me.

Someone saying they won't wear one because masks do nothing isn't fine by my because it isn't true.

The study I shared, complete with all of the data and code to reproduce, is worth a look.
post 1676986303 02-11-2023, 10:37 AM
-
#99
  1. Seatard
  1. Seatard
  3. Join Date: Sep 2012
  4. Posts: 19,153
  5. Subscribers: 3
  6. Rep Power: 98572
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩



https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v101143932/
I know, I was (sloppily) just trying to make the point that anything you strap over your face to filter the air you breath is technically a respirator and there are several different types that are often conflated. Best practices in a medical or industrial setting are nearly irrelevant to what the general public practiced during covid, which I think was the original point JUSA was making.

Like anything, masks "work" but only when used properly.
post 1676986623 02-11-2023, 10:42 AM
-
#100
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By Seatard⏩
I know, I was (sloppily) just trying to make the point that anything you strap over your face to filter the air you breath is technically a respirator and there are several different types that are often conflated. Best practices in a medical or industrial setting are nearly irrelevant to what the general public practiced during covid, which I think was the original point JUSA was making.

Like anything, masks "work" but only when used properly.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Can you share it so we can review it together?

This one found a 19% reduction in R with community mask wearing:
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2119266119
"However, we find that widespread voluntary mask wearing, and other data limitations, make mandate effectiveness a poor proxy for mask-wearing effectiveness.

We directly analyze the effect of mask wearing on SARS-CoV-2 transmission, drawing on several datasets covering 92 regions on six continents, including the largest survey of wearing behavior (n= 20 million) [F. Kreuter et al.,https://gisumd.github.io/COVID-19-API-Documentation(2020)].

Using a Bayesian hierarchical model, we estimate the effect of mask wearing on transmission, by linking reported wearing levels to reported cases in each region, while adjusting for mobility and nonpharmaceutical interventions (NPIs), such as bans on large gatherings.

Our estimates imply that the mean observed level of mask wearing corresponds to a 19% decrease in the reproduction number R."
post 1676987793 02-11-2023, 11:04 AM
-
#101
  1. GaloisTheory
  2. Registered User
  1. GaloisTheory
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Oct 2014
  4. Posts: 13,915
  5. Rep Power: 83343
Originally Posted By BeachPro11⏩
And if people say blah blah blah the covid molecule rides on water molecules and that is how people get sick?

Ok.....but the vape water molecule just went through the mask.
There is a chain of events prior to infection that really isn't appreciated.

1. The respiratory droplets/aerosols need to be virus laden

2. The virus laden droplets need to be deposited on a susceptible mucous membrane

3. The droplets need sufficient virus concentration and a fast enough deposition rate to actually trigger an infection


It's not necessarily a one and done deal. There are several things working in your favor.

Not every droplet you exhale is virus laden, small droplets get dispersed by air currents, large droplets don't have the right trajectory, and the ones that do make it to a suitable membrane have to deliver enough virus in sufficient time to exceed the needed infective dose.
Physics crew
post 1676988193 02-11-2023, 11:12 AM
-
#102
  1. Seatard
  1. Seatard
  3. Join Date: Sep 2012
  4. Posts: 19,153
  5. Subscribers: 3
  6. Rep Power: 98572
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
"However, we find that widespread voluntary mask wearing, and other data limitations, make mandate effectiveness a poor proxy for mask-wearing effectiveness.

We directly analyze the effect of mask wearing on SARS-CoV-2 transmission, drawing on several datasets covering 92 regions on six continents, including the largest survey of wearing behavior (n= 20 million) [F. Kreuter et al.,https://gisumd.github.io/COVID-19-API-Documentation(2020)].

Using a Bayesian hierarchical model, we estimate the effect of mask wearing on transmission, by linking reported wearing levels to reported cases in each region, while adjusting for mobility and nonpharmaceutical interventions (NPIs), such as bans on large gatherings.

Our estimates imply that the mean observed level of mask wearing corresponds to a 19% decrease in the reproduction number R."
I was speaking to the points being made in the off topic side discussion about the "fitting" of masks.

The rest of this, the argument that masks have some level of effectiveness is settled. Wearing a mask doessomething, the remaining unending debate is if it is enough to become a matter of policy that restricts individual freedoms.
post 1676988503 02-11-2023, 11:18 AM
-
#103
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By Seatard⏩
I was speaking to the points being made in the off topic side discussion about the "fitting" of masks.

The rest of this, the argument that masks have some level of effectiveness is settled. Wearing a mask doessomething, the remaining unending debate is if it is enough to become a matter of policy that restricts individual freedoms.
Like I said, if someone doesn't want to wear a mask because that feel it somehow restricts their freedom, I'm fine with that. But, with the understanding that mask use does significantly lower transmission rate.
post 1676988793 02-11-2023, 11:23 AM
-
#104
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
The study I linked didn't restrict mask use to only N95 resistors, masks worn properly, or professionally fitted and tested masks.
post 1676989363 02-11-2023, 11:34 AM
-
#105
  1. Audioslave
  2. Registered User
  1. Audioslave
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Oct 2004
  4. Posts: 5,222
  5. Rep Power: 18763
Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Sorry I did not reply, if only to nod and say gotcha or something. Don't take this the wrong way, and I actually admire this about you, but you wear me out sometimes.

I actually see this point and will pseudo-concede it.

While any attempt to get people to actually put on masks that work will not be 100%, if there is evidence to suggest some benefit, then sure. You seem to be a *lot* more optimistic about how Average Person would be about it, that they would find the right masks, have the knowledge to put them on properly and then follow through with it. I see that as a close to 0% success rate and I assumed you'd have to hit much higher levels to matter, but if any bit helps, then sure, having a handful of people wearing properly fitted N95 masks that have been replaced regularly, if they also happened to be infectious, it would help.
I think the reality (and neither side wants to admit this) is that masks do work but maskmandatesdo not. There are certainly reasons as to why this study doesn't really address masks specifically as well as other studies. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't address another point, which is the mandate part.

I think I brought this up in another thread but condom use substantially reduces HIV transmission (I hope no one tries to argue this). However, trying to scare people or mandating people into condom use actually increases HIV transmission. When people were told HIV was highly contagious they were less likely to use condoms or take precautions. When they were told the opposite, it had a reverse impact and reduced HIV transmission.

So yeah... if you look at all the studies collectively it's not hard to come to the conclusion that masks probably work but mask mandates probably do not.
YOU ARE NOT A SLAVE
post 1676994803 02-11-2023, 01:19 PM
-
#106
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  3. Join Date: Jan 2005
  4. Location: Ill.
  5. Posts: 120,479
  6. Rep Power: 316531
Originally Posted By Redfish225⏩
Question, how long will people cry about masks and Covid?
Why are people still wearing them? Why does the CDC try to freak everyone out, whenever a new variant emerges?
post 1676994973 02-11-2023, 01:22 PM
-
#107
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  3. Join Date: Jan 2005
  4. Location: Ill.
  5. Posts: 120,479
  6. Rep Power: 316531
Originally Posted By Audioslave⏩
I think the reality (and neither side wants to admit this) is that masks do work but maskmandatesdo not. There are certainly reasons as to why this study doesn't really address masks specifically as well as other studies. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't address another point, which is the mandate part.

I think I brought this up in another thread but condom use substantially reduces HIV transmission (I hope no one tries to argue this). However, trying to scare people or mandating people into condom use actually increases HIV transmission. When people were told HIV was highly contagious they were less likely to use condoms or take precautions. When they were told the opposite, it had a reverse impact and reduced HIV transmission.

So yeah... if you look at all the studies collectively it's not hard to come to the conclusion that masks probably work but mask mandates probably do not.
Once again, when cases were at their peak, everyone was pretty much wearing a mask.
post 1676995513 02-11-2023, 01:33 PM
-
#108
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Why are people still wearing them? Why does the CDC try to freak everyone out, whenever a new variant emerges?
I think maybe not everyone wants to get covid repeatedly.
post 1676995603 02-11-2023, 01:34 PM
-
#109
  1. swoleyo
  2. Registered User
  1. swoleyo
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: May 2009
  4. Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States
  5. Age: 42
  6. Posts: 10,948
  7. Rep Power: 48507
Originally Posted By litljay⏩
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columni...n-jacob-sullum




Here's the analysis.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...6207.pub6/full
The only mask that would work would be a respirator with biological filters on it. The CDC never even talked about these.
Mod neg Cry-Baby Crew
NEG ONLYFANS THREADS CREW
EPSTEIN DIDN'T KILL HIMSELF CREW
RAW DOG CREW - PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY
post 1676995653 02-11-2023, 01:35 PM
-
#110
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  3. Join Date: Jan 2005
  4. Location: Ill.
  5. Posts: 120,479
  6. Rep Power: 316531
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I think maybe not everyone wants to get covid repeatedly.
Well, for that to happen, they're gonna have to live indoors and have zero contact with anyone.
post 1676995693 02-11-2023, 01:36 PM
-
#111
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Once again, when cases were at their peak, everyone was pretty much wearing a mask.
From the study above:

"We study 56 countries on six continents, and our inferential analyses span May–September 2020."
post 1676995753 02-11-2023, 01:37 PM
-
#112
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Well, for that to happen, they're gonna have to live indoors and have zero contact with anyone.
Or wear a mask to help lower the chances of infection and transmission :shrug:
post 1676995833 02-11-2023, 01:37 PM
-
#113
  1. Polaris
  1. Polaris
  3. Join Date: Feb 2003
  4. Posts: 63,707
  5. Rep Power: 568200
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Or wear a mask to help lower the chances of infection and transmission :shrug:
No.
post 1676996363 02-11-2023, 01:45 PM
-
#114
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  3. Join Date: Jan 2005
  4. Location: Ill.
  5. Posts: 120,479
  6. Rep Power: 316531
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Or wear a mask to help lower the chances of infection and transmission :shrug:
A paper mask does not protect you from getting it. But you keep wearing one if it makes you "feel" safer......
post 1676996933 02-11-2023, 01:55 PM
-
#115
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
A paper mask does not protect you from getting it. But you keep wearing one if it makes you "feel" safer......
How 'bout dat dere N95?
post 1676996993 02-11-2023, 01:56 PM
-
#116
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By swoleyo⏩
The only mask that would work would be a respirator with biological filters on it. The CDC never even talked about these.
The data suggest otherwise. Community masking lowered R by 19%.
post 1676998183 02-11-2023, 02:17 PM
-
#117
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  1. Dave22reborn
  2. Cold Hearted SOB
  3. Join Date: Jan 2005
  4. Location: Ill.
  5. Posts: 120,479
  6. Rep Power: 316531
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
How 'bout dat dere N95?
Except that's not what's being worn and you know it.

Also, if you're wearing one outside, or in the privacy of your own vehicle, why can't you just admit that's ignorant?
post 1676998423 02-11-2023, 02:22 PM
-
#118
  1. sfgiants13
  2. Էպշտեյնը իրեն չսպանեց
  1. sfgiants13
  2. Էպշտեյնը իրեն չսպանեց
  3. Join Date: Feb 2003
  4. Location: Seattle, Washington, United States
  5. Posts: 12,532
  6. Rep Power: 88624
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Or wear a mask to help lower the chances of infection and transmission :shrug:
How about you tape a shoe to your face? Would work about as well as the type of masks 99% of the population is wearing.
post 1676998633 02-11-2023, 02:26 PM
-
#119
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By sfgiants13⏩
How about you tape a shoe to your face? Would work about as well as the type of masks 99% of the population is wearing.
Not according the available evidence :shrug:
post 1676999043 02-11-2023, 02:34 PM
-
#120
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  1. J.L.C.
  2. Wat
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Posts: 33,220
  5. Rep Power: 37920
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Except that's not what's being worn and you know it.
Sure. But the linked study suggests it doesn't have to be N95's to help reduce transmission.
Also, if you're wearing one outside, or in the privacy of your own vehicle, why can't you just admit that's ignorant?
I previously stated that people using things incorrectly/inappropriately suggests a need for improved education.

However, people using things incorrectly/inappropriately doesn't mean the thing is ineffective when used correctly/appropriately.
Quick Navigation Top Misc
Bookmarks
Digg.com
Digg
del.icio.us
del.icio.us
Stumbleupon.com
StumbleUpon
Google.com
Google
Facebook.com
Facebook
Posting Permissions
  1. You may not post new threads
  2. You may not post replies
  3. You may not post attachments
  4. You may not edit your posts