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08-05-2024, 09:47 PM
#91
Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
Well let's think shall we..time space and matter is what we call a continuum all of them have to come into existence at the same instant. If there were matter but no space where would you put it? if there were matter in space but no time when would you put it? You cannot have time space or matter independently. They have to come into existence all at once.
any explanation is 'god did it' if you can't offer another reasonable explaiantion, right?
The Bible answers that in ten words
"In the beginning"… (there's time)
"God created the heaven" (there's space) and
the earth" (there's matter)
So you have time space matter created a trinity of Trinity's and the God that created them has to be outside of them..a universe cannot create itself, nothing cannot create something, this goes against the 2nd Law of thermodynamics and entropy itself.
Explain how time, space and matter come into existence all at once. Don't give me that "space-time" BS either
Btw..the fact you do not believe in God only goes to show you cannot trust your own intellect. Chemical reactions do not produce logical inference.
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08-05-2024, 09:49 PM
#92
Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
They don't..they burn out..they don't have enough mass at the end of their lives to "explode"
so then why do stars explode
edit: also seems like you misunderstand what the big bang is. it resulted in the creation of both space and time. there was nothing outside of it. no space. imagine a firecracker inside of a balloon. the balloon itself and outside the balloon don't exist. the universe is the shockwave of the firecracker and its matter in the interior of the balloon
how this happened? i don't believe it at all. same as saying 'god did it'
but it does predict things which makes it a useful model
edit: also seems like you misunderstand what the big bang is. it resulted in the creation of both space and time. there was nothing outside of it. no space. imagine a firecracker inside of a balloon. the balloon itself and outside the balloon don't exist. the universe is the shockwave of the firecracker and its matter in the interior of the balloon
how this happened? i don't believe it at all. same as saying 'god did it'
but it does predict things which makes it a useful model
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08-05-2024, 09:57 PM
#93
Nothing existed in a place that was nowhere it wasn't a void it was simply nothing and no time amd now there'd wifi wtf
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08-05-2024, 09:57 PM
#94
Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
Well actually if you look into kabbalah - more than 500 years ago they had a model for creation that looks exactly like the big bang. Pretty sure that the big bang in and of it self was conceptualised by a Christian. Correct me if I am wrong though.
so then why do stars explode
edit: also seems like you misunderstand what the big bang is. it resulted in the creation of both space and time. there was nothing outside of it. no space. imagine a firecracker inside of a balloon. the balloon itself and outside the balloon don't exist. the universe is the shockwave of the firecracker and its matter in the interior of the balloon
how this happened? i don't believe it at all. same as saying 'god did it'
but it does predict things which makes it a useful model
edit: also seems like you misunderstand what the big bang is. it resulted in the creation of both space and time. there was nothing outside of it. no space. imagine a firecracker inside of a balloon. the balloon itself and outside the balloon don't exist. the universe is the shockwave of the firecracker and its matter in the interior of the balloon
how this happened? i don't believe it at all. same as saying 'god did it'
but it does predict things which makes it a useful model
Isn't it interesting how the Kabbalists (Jews) are always at the forefront of scientific research and advancement when it comes to this stuff?
When you actually look at the model, it makes sense. I personally don't practise kabbalah, but it wouldn't be a thing if there were not some basis in it.
The bible it self is not a science book, it's a book bridging the gap between man and God. At the time of the bible, there was mathematics, engineering, science, occultism. None of it is explored in the bible and that's because the bible is a book on how to live a moral life and pray, etc.
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08-05-2024, 09:59 PM
#95
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
you're arguing against things you don't understand. you didn't know what the big bang was.
Well let's think shall we..time space and matter is what we call a continuum all of them have to come into existence at the same instant. If there were matter but no space where would you put it? if there were matter in space but no time when would you put it? you cannot have time space or matter independently.time when would you put it you cannot have time space or matter independently….they have to come into existence simultaneously.
The Bible answers that in ten words
"In the beginning"… (there's time)
"God created the heaven" (there's space) and
the earth" (there's matter)
So you have time space matter created a trinity of Trinity's and the God that created them has to be outside of them..a universe cannot create itself, nothing cannot create something, this goes against the 2nd Law of thermodynamics and entropy itself
Btw..the fact you do not believe in God only goes to show you cannot trust your own intellect. Chemical reactions do not produce logical inference.
The Bible answers that in ten words
"In the beginning"… (there's time)
"God created the heaven" (there's space) and
the earth" (there's matter)
So you have time space matter created a trinity of Trinity's and the God that created them has to be outside of them..a universe cannot create itself, nothing cannot create something, this goes against the 2nd Law of thermodynamics and entropy itself
Btw..the fact you do not believe in God only goes to show you cannot trust your own intellect. Chemical reactions do not produce logical inference.
all you are talking about is a coordinate system to locate matter in space time.
plus the sun existed before earth
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08-05-2024, 10:00 PM
#96
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
ok. gn
They don't..they burn out..they don't have enough mass at the end of their lives to "explode"
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08-05-2024, 10:04 PM
#97
The craziness of the world today has lead me to religion and philosophy slowly over the last 3 years. I think every man aiming to understand himself and the world around him should read the most important and historically influential text - the Bible.
I was baptized and grew up in a family where all my relatives were religious but my parents never were. To be honest I'm kind of glad it was that way and that I'm coming to understand things on my own terms - for a variety of reasons. I've found a lot of meaning in the Bible so far (still in the Old Testament) and I'm looking forward to reading more, along with the Quran and other religious, spiritual, and philosophical texts.
I don't really trust atheists and when I look at what they do it's hard to consider myself a part of "their team" to put it simply, but I'm not sure where my views are yet. Currently feeling grateful to have the opportunity to learn more and trying to understand what God or the creator wants from me. I believe the decision to become truly Christian, Muslim, or anything else will happen to me and will not be something I decide entirely myself.
Great thread so far.
I was baptized and grew up in a family where all my relatives were religious but my parents never were. To be honest I'm kind of glad it was that way and that I'm coming to understand things on my own terms - for a variety of reasons. I've found a lot of meaning in the Bible so far (still in the Old Testament) and I'm looking forward to reading more, along with the Quran and other religious, spiritual, and philosophical texts.
I don't really trust atheists and when I look at what they do it's hard to consider myself a part of "their team" to put it simply, but I'm not sure where my views are yet. Currently feeling grateful to have the opportunity to learn more and trying to understand what God or the creator wants from me. I believe the decision to become truly Christian, Muslim, or anything else will happen to me and will not be something I decide entirely myself.
Great thread so far.
08-05-2024, 10:05 PM
#98
Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
I think it's you that does not understand..just like how you thought a mask stops viral transmission.
you're arguing against things you don't understand. you didn't know what the big bang was.
all you are talking about is a coordinate system to locate matter in space time.
plus the sun existed before earth
all you are talking about is a coordinate system to locate matter in space time.
plus the sun existed before earth
This may help..
"The Big Bang is the scientific theory that describes the origin and evolution of the universe. According to this theory, the universe began as an infinitely hot and dense point, known as a Singularity, around 13.8 billion years ago."
https://phys.org/news/2015-12-big-theory.html
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08-05-2024, 10:07 PM
#99
Originally Posted By j1rr⏩
Great - skip the quran and study the dharma and then study what modern science is advocating. This will help you reach a certain conclusion a lot sooner.
The craziness of the world today has lead me to religion and philosophy slowly over the last 3 years. I think every man aiming to understand himself and the world around him should read the most important and historically influential text - the Bible.
I was baptized and grew up in a family where all my relatives were religious but my parents never were. To be honest I'm kind of glad it was that way and that I'm coming to understand things on my own terms - for a variety of reasons. I've found a lot of meaning in the Bible so far (still in the Old Testament) and I'm looking forward to reading more, along with the Quran and other religious, spiritual, and philosophical texts.
I don't really trust atheists and when I look at what they do it's hard to consider myself a part of "their team" to put it simply, but I'm not sure where my views are yet. Currently feeling grateful to have the opportunity to learn more and trying to understand what God or the creator wants from me. I believe the decision to become truly Christian, Muslim, or anything else will happen to me and will not be something I decide entirely myself.
Great thread so far.
I was baptized and grew up in a family where all my relatives were religious but my parents never were. To be honest I'm kind of glad it was that way and that I'm coming to understand things on my own terms - for a variety of reasons. I've found a lot of meaning in the Bible so far (still in the Old Testament) and I'm looking forward to reading more, along with the Quran and other religious, spiritual, and philosophical texts.
I don't really trust atheists and when I look at what they do it's hard to consider myself a part of "their team" to put it simply, but I'm not sure where my views are yet. Currently feeling grateful to have the opportunity to learn more and trying to understand what God or the creator wants from me. I believe the decision to become truly Christian, Muslim, or anything else will happen to me and will not be something I decide entirely myself.
Great thread so far.
I'll help you out. Pagans/hindus (all people were pagan prior to Christianity) believe that everything came out of nothing and that there's no God, but rather a 'supreme reality' termed brahman, ein sof, or the tao, depending on the specific flavor of satanism that you're into.
Sound familiar?? It's very very similar to simulation theory. If you have any brains and can see where the world is headed in terms of ethics and morality, you'll put 2 and 2 together.
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08-05-2024, 10:09 PM
#100
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
space did not exist before the big bang
I think it's you that does not understand..just like how you thought a mask stops viral transmission.
This may help..
"The Big Bang is the scientific theory that describes the origin and evolution of the universe. According to this theory, the universe began as an infinitely hot and dense point, known as a Singularity, around 13.8 billion years ago."
https://phys.org/news/2015-12-big-theory.html
This may help..
"The Big Bang is the scientific theory that describes the origin and evolution of the universe. According to this theory, the universe began as an infinitely hot and dense point, known as a Singularity, around 13.8 billion years ago."
https://phys.org/news/2015-12-big-theory.html
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08-05-2024, 10:14 PM
#101
Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
Hey bro, I made a response to your post above. You must have missed it.
space did not exist before the big bang
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08-05-2024, 10:17 PM
#102
Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
There was no Big Bang..you skipped over the question…
space did not exist before the big bang
How can you say that there was a big bang when the poorest type of insulator is outer space because there is nothing space to insulate the heat, a big bang could not have occurred is because no amount of gravity can pull all matter into one infinitesimal region by any stretch of the imagination because the pressures exerting outward are thousands of times greater than the gravity pulling the matter in…Think?
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08-05-2024, 10:21 PM
#103
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
Are you anti-big bang due to the time frame or the mechanics? I don't know about the time frame, but the mechanics to me seem OK. Creation had to manifest in someway, why not a big bang?
There was no Big Bang..you skipped over the question…
How can you say that there was a big bang when the poorest type of insulator is outer space because there is nothing space to insulate the heat, a big bang could not have occurred is because no amount of gravity can pull all matter into one infinitesimal region by any stretch of the imagination because the pressures exerting outward are thousands of times greater than the gravity pulling the matter in…Think?
How can you say that there was a big bang when the poorest type of insulator is outer space because there is nothing space to insulate the heat, a big bang could not have occurred is because no amount of gravity can pull all matter into one infinitesimal region by any stretch of the imagination because the pressures exerting outward are thousands of times greater than the gravity pulling the matter in…Think?
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08-06-2024, 03:19 AM
#104
Originally Posted By MiscMathematician⏩
because there is a pattern does not mean it was designed. we evolved to seek patterns for survival, so we see them everywhere. we see designs evolve over time too
mankind has already found a theoretical solution to these patterns. "seeds" as video game nerds would call them. it is a continuum of possible universes. ours is just one of them. and we are special in that gravity acts the way it does here, so that planets and stars form the way they do. and how electromagnetism works here, to protect our atmosphere and have strong bonds between elements. but there are infinitely many more similar to us or perhaps better off than us in some way
and it makes sense that we are special, because unlucky ones wouldn't exist to complain about it.
mankind has already found a theoretical solution to these patterns. "seeds" as video game nerds would call them. it is a continuum of possible universes. ours is just one of them. and we are special in that gravity acts the way it does here, so that planets and stars form the way they do. and how electromagnetism works here, to protect our atmosphere and have strong bonds between elements. but there are infinitely many more similar to us or perhaps better off than us in some way
and it makes sense that we are special, because unlucky ones wouldn't exist to complain about it.
Not trying to get into debates about evolution or the universe…..but have you ever asked yourself why you’re so skeptical of the existence of God while being so willing and eager to accept a concept like the existence of infinite universes?
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08-06-2024, 03:38 AM
#105
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
A "finite" universe would be weird too. Does space or time loop back on itself? What happens at the boundary? Does everything repeat indefinitely? (Actually since our observable universe is compact, with certain assumptions, the answer is yes.) More technically, the topology of the universe is unknown, which includes questions about boundedness.
Not trying to get into debates about evolution or the universe…..but have you ever asked yourself why you’re so skeptical of the existence of God while being so willing and eager to accept a concept like the existence of infinite universes?
Most physics models assume an infinite universe simply for mathematical simplicity. What we do know from observation is that our observable universe at large scales is isotropic and flat, but we may just be observing a small part of the whole thing.
So, belief doesn't enter into anything here. It's a matter of what makes the best predictions. These are still open questions.
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08-06-2024, 03:40 AM
#106
Why would god create humans so similar to apes? We are supposed to be created in his image, but how can the almighty resemble us when we are not far from primates?
08-06-2024, 03:56 AM
#107
Originally Posted By bushrnaster⏩
Not infinite universe… infinite universes. This is what he said:
A "finite" universe would be weird too. Does space or time loop back on itself? What happens at the boundary? Does everything repeat indefinitely? (Actually since our observable universe is compact, with certain assumptions, the answer is yes.) More technically, the topology of the universe is unknown, which includes questions about boundedness.
Most physics models assume an infinite universe simply for mathematical simplicity. What we do know from observation is that our observable universe at large scales is isotropic and flat, but we may just be observing a small part of the whole thing.
So, belief doesn't enter into anything here. It's a matter of what makes the best predictions. These are still open questions.
Most physics models assume an infinite universe simply for mathematical simplicity. What we do know from observation is that our observable universe at large scales is isotropic and flat, but we may just be observing a small part of the whole thing.
So, belief doesn't enter into anything here. It's a matter of what makes the best predictions. These are still open questions.
it is a continuum of possible universes. ours is just one of them.
and we are special in that gravity acts the way it does here, so that planets and stars form the way they do. and how electromagnetism works here, to protect our atmosphere and have strong bonds between elements. but
there are infinitely many more similar to us or perhaps better off than us in some way
So he is skeptical to accept the existence of God but more than happy to believe that there are an infinite number of universes.
Also, to loop that back to to your post. Is it possible to have an infinite universe and also have more than universe? That seems contradictory to me. If you have multiple sets of infinity then they aren’t infinite, as they are separated from and don’t include any of the other sets in their individual instance…which means it can’t be infinite.
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08-06-2024, 04:00 AM
#108
Originally Posted By bushrnaster⏩
A "finite" universe would be weird too. Does space or time loop back on itself? What happens at the boundary? Does everything repeat indefinitely? (Actually since our observable universe is compact, with certain assumptions, the answer is yes.) More technically, the topology of the universe is unknown, which includes questions about boundedness.
Most physics models assume an infinite universe simply for mathematical simplicity. What we do know from observation is that our observable universe at large scales is isotropic and flat, but we may just be observing a small part of the whole thing.
So, belief doesn't enter into anything here. It's a matter of what makes the best predictions. These are still open questions.
Most physics models assume an infinite universe simply for mathematical simplicity. What we do know from observation is that our observable universe at large scales is isotropic and flat, but we may just be observing a small part of the whole thing.
So, belief doesn't enter into anything here. It's a matter of what makes the best predictions. These are still open questions.
I remember reading this guide which was like the most comprehensive exploration of all the modern cosmological models but it was surprisingly readable. I remember it saying something like a closed time loop is pretty much impossible since you would need infinite fine tuning to prevent radiation and chit falling through the loop and ruining space-time.
I think an ultimate beginning is the best model we have so far but of course, it raises the question of the cause.
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08-06-2024, 04:00 AM
#109
It just doesn't make sense otherwise.
08-06-2024, 04:02 AM
#110
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
The multiverse assumption is also simply one of mathematical convenience. We do not know if there are other such universes or not.
Not infinite universe… infinite universes. This is what he said:
So he is skeptical to accept the existence of God but more than happy to believe that there are an infinite number of universes.
Also, to loop that back to to your post. Is it possible to have an infinite universe and also have more than universe? That seems contradictory to me. If you have multiple sets of infinity then they aren’t infinite, as they are separated from and don’t include any of the other sets in their individual instance…which means it can’t be infinite.
So he is skeptical to accept the existence of God but more than happy to believe that there are an infinite number of universes.
Also, to loop that back to to your post. Is it possible to have an infinite universe and also have more than universe? That seems contradictory to me. If you have multiple sets of infinity then they aren’t infinite, as they are separated from and don’t include any of the other sets in their individual instance…which means it can’t be infinite.
Not sure what you mean. It's entirely possible to have infinitudes of infinities. Just as a toy example, consider the real numbers in (0,1]. There are an uncountably infinite number of such numbers. Now consider the real numbers as a whole. There are countably infinite numbers of such intervals on the real number line. So, we have an infinitude of infinities…
One could imagine a multiverse of infinite universes. Whether it actually exists or not is a question. One ought also to consider what existing means since when we say something exists, we often mean in this universe, physically. But perhaps, instead they simply mean platonically as a logically well defined idea.
Also leads me to ask what it means if God exists or not. Do we mean physically existing in this universe? Or is God somehow outside it? Do we then expand the universe to include God? Many unanswerable and nonphysical questions. You're free to believe in God or not. It changes nothing about models and predictions. If it makes you feel better, go ahead, but don't use your religion as a way to bash other people.
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08-06-2024, 04:06 AM
#111
Originally Posted By Mulloway69⏩
I can understand your perspective. Hopefully you’ll give it another try sometime down the road
I gettit and I totally understand, but I disagree. Other than "the need" or compulsion to know how/why, I reject that you have to have faith in anything for anything other than a basic intrinsic human compulsion. It's not intuative or natural, but it's okay to let go and accept that you just dont and may never even know.
Agreed, but I can resist the temptation for an easy explanation. Dont get me wrong, I want to know, but spirituality doesnt come close to a reasonable explanation to satisfy my questions - WAY too much low hanging fruit that discredits it early on the path for answers for my mind.
Yeah bro it all makes perfect sense. Failth is the part that I cannot do no matter how hard I have tried - was raised a christian but had doubts that started to galvanise around 10-12yo. Up to that point I would have faith I guess - ask questions and accept the answers I got (but still would be thinking wtf that doesnt answer it for me). I think if I was still a Christian I would feel like a fraud and living a lie although that is a useless though experiment becasue I just dont think my mind can do it.
Agreed, but I can resist the temptation for an easy explanation. Dont get me wrong, I want to know, but spirituality doesnt come close to a reasonable explanation to satisfy my questions - WAY too much low hanging fruit that discredits it early on the path for answers for my mind.
Yeah bro it all makes perfect sense. Failth is the part that I cannot do no matter how hard I have tried - was raised a christian but had doubts that started to galvanise around 10-12yo. Up to that point I would have faith I guess - ask questions and accept the answers I got (but still would be thinking wtf that doesnt answer it for me). I think if I was still a Christian I would feel like a fraud and living a lie although that is a useless though experiment becasue I just dont think my mind can do it.
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08-06-2024, 04:46 AM
#112
Originally Posted By bushrnaster⏩
Right, we don’t know whether they exist or not but some people are much more likely to accept that as reality than to accept any type of belief in God. And not bashing either one, I was just interested to know if he’d ever done self-reflection to consider why that may be. Obviously people are different and each will have many different reasons, but it’s worth evaluating(for anyone, not just in this example) why they are so much more willing to accept certain concepts and beliefs.
The multiverse assumption is also simply one of mathematical convenience. We do not know if there are other such universes or not.
Not sure what you mean. It's entirely possible to have infinitudes of infinities. Just as a toy example, consider the real numbers in (0,1]. There are an uncountably infinite number of such numbers. Now consider the real numbers as a whole. There are countably infinite numbers of such intervals on the real number line. So, we have an infinitude of infinities…
One could imagine a multiverse of infinite universes. Whether it actually exists or not is a question. One ought also to consider what existing means since when we say something exists, we often mean in this universe, physically. But perhaps, instead they simply mean platonically as a logically well defined idea.
Also leads me to ask what it means if God exists or not. Do we mean physically existing in this universe? Or is God somehow outside it? Do we then expand the universe to include God? Many unanswerable and nonphysical questions. You're free to believe in God or not. It changes nothing about models and predictions. If it makes you feel better, go ahead, but don't use your religion as a way to bash other people.
Not sure what you mean. It's entirely possible to have infinitudes of infinities. Just as a toy example, consider the real numbers in (0,1]. There are an uncountably infinite number of such numbers. Now consider the real numbers as a whole. There are countably infinite numbers of such intervals on the real number line. So, we have an infinitude of infinities…
One could imagine a multiverse of infinite universes. Whether it actually exists or not is a question. One ought also to consider what existing means since when we say something exists, we often mean in this universe, physically. But perhaps, instead they simply mean platonically as a logically well defined idea.
Also leads me to ask what it means if God exists or not. Do we mean physically existing in this universe? Or is God somehow outside it? Do we then expand the universe to include God? Many unanswerable and nonphysical questions. You're free to believe in God or not. It changes nothing about models and predictions. If it makes you feel better, go ahead, but don't use your religion as a way to bash other people.
The concept of infinity is enough of a mindfukk even when people are referring to the same thing when discussing it, but I think we may be using it differently here. Sure there can be an infinite number of infinite sets. For example there’s an infinite number of 1.1111 and 2.1111 and 3.1111 or whatever other fraction you want to break it down into. But that concept doesn’t apply to a universe which when we say “infinite” mean it expands out in all directions infinitely and forever….or at least that’s how I interpret it. If there are other dimensions with other universes then our universe doesn’t expand in all directions forever, otherwise it would include those other universes. So to say our universe is infinite you’d have to specify in what ways…like saying a line goes on infinitely on the x axis but knowing that would mean it could never deviate from its y axis.
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08-06-2024, 05:15 AM
#113
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
i am skeptical of everything. i do not take anything based on faith to be true but i can still
think
explanations are plausible or useful if there is plenty evidence of it. i would rather try to solve problems though, than to instead put bandaids over them and say it must be god.
Not trying to get into debates about evolution or the universe…..but have you ever asked yourself why you’re so skeptical of the existence of God while being so willing and eager to accept a concept like the existence of infinite universes?
i do not accept that there are a continuum of universes. i respect that it offers a possible explanation
see 10:00 https://youtu.be/Vx2RcUQNh6Q
we see design and order because we lucked out and our particular universe behaves well enough for us to exist
Originally Posted By WiseOldApe⏩
the big bang was plausible as a model but it has problems. it doesn't answer the questions the curious of us really want answered. it does help explain what we are observing. the end goal would be to either fix those problems or adapt it to some more fancy explanation
Well actually if you look into kabbalah - more than 500 years ago they had a model for creation that looks exactly like the big bang. Pretty sure that the big bang in and of it self was conceptualised by a Christian. Correct me if I am wrong though.
Isn't it interesting how the Kabbalists (Jews) are always at the forefront of scientific research and advancement when it comes to this stuff?
When you actually look at the model, it makes sense. I personally don't practise kabbalah, but it wouldn't be a thing if there were not some basis in it.
The bible it self is not a science book, it's a book bridging the gap between man and God. At the time of the bible, there was mathematics, engineering, science, occultism. None of it is explored in the bible and that's because the bible is a book on how to live a moral life and pray, etc.
Isn't it interesting how the Kabbalists (Jews) are always at the forefront of scientific research and advancement when it comes to this stuff?
When you actually look at the model, it makes sense. I personally don't practise kabbalah, but it wouldn't be a thing if there were not some basis in it.
The bible it self is not a science book, it's a book bridging the gap between man and God. At the time of the bible, there was mathematics, engineering, science, occultism. None of it is explored in the bible and that's because the bible is a book on how to live a moral life and pray, etc.
Originally Posted By Paul Kreul⏩
i have already said i personally do not think the big bang model is true in its current form, but that it is still useful. i was explaining the big bang model to you, since you think it was an infinitely dense point in space. there was no vacuum or anything else outside of the proposed infinitely dense point, there was nothing (which is not the same as no matter in space, literally absense of anything). that is why it did not become a black hole, there was no space, it created space, there were no physical or time dimensions at all
There was no Big Bang..you skipped over the question…
How can you say that there was a big bang when the poorest type of insulator is outer space because there is nothing space to insulate the heat, a big bang could not have occurred is because no amount of gravity can pull all matter into one infinitesimal region by any stretch of the imagination because the pressures exerting outward are thousands of times greater than the gravity pulling the matter in…Think?
How can you say that there was a big bang when the poorest type of insulator is outer space because there is nothing space to insulate the heat, a big bang could not have occurred is because no amount of gravity can pull all matter into one infinitesimal region by any stretch of the imagination because the pressures exerting outward are thousands of times greater than the gravity pulling the matter in…Think?
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08-06-2024, 05:18 AM
#114
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
So, just imagine a situation where you have a higher dimensional space and you have say multiple copies of R^4 living in it. You seem to be assuming the parent space must be the same dimension. The multiverse could be infinite dimensional.
Right, we don’t know whether they exist or not but some people are much more likely to accept that as reality than to accept any type of belief in God. And not bashing either one, I was just interested to know if he’d ever done self-reflection to consider why that may be. Obviously people are different and each will have many different reasons, but it’s worth evaluating(for anyone, not just in this example) why they are so much more willing to accept certain concepts and beliefs.
The concept of infinity is enough of a mindfukk even when people are referring to the same thing when discussing it, but I think we may be using it differently here. Sure there can be an infinite number of infinite sets. For example there’s an infinite number of 1.1111 and 2.1111 and 3.1111 or whatever other fraction you want to break it down into. But that concept doesn’t apply to a universe which when we say “infinite” mean it expands out in all directions infinitely and forever….or at least that’s how I interpret it. If there are other dimensions with other universes then our universe doesn’t expand in all directions forever, otherwise it would include those other universes. So to say our universe is infinite you’d have to specify in what ways…like saying a line goes on infinitely on the x axis but knowing that would mean it could never deviate from its y axis.
The concept of infinity is enough of a mindfukk even when people are referring to the same thing when discussing it, but I think we may be using it differently here. Sure there can be an infinite number of infinite sets. For example there’s an infinite number of 1.1111 and 2.1111 and 3.1111 or whatever other fraction you want to break it down into. But that concept doesn’t apply to a universe which when we say “infinite” mean it expands out in all directions infinitely and forever….or at least that’s how I interpret it. If there are other dimensions with other universes then our universe doesn’t expand in all directions forever, otherwise it would include those other universes. So to say our universe is infinite you’d have to specify in what ways…like saying a line goes on infinitely on the x axis but knowing that would mean it could never deviate from its y axis.
What you are trying to use is that if the dimension of a subspace of a vector space of dimension n is n, then it must be the whole space. True, but we can relax the assumption that the parent space has dimension n.
Also, this type of geometric picture of embedding the universe into a larger universe isn't really what is meant by multiverse in most cases of physics. Instead, our universe seems to represent a particular solution given certain free parameters, but others appear to be possible. One could talk about the larger space of possibilities mathematically. It is unclear whether they physically exist or not in any way or what that would mean, but one might imagine them as physically realized in some infinite dimensional space.
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08-06-2024, 05:55 AM
#115
Originally Posted By bushrnaster⏩
No, what I’m saying is that if you are going to suggest our universe is infinite then you need to define the ways in which it is infinite. If there are other dimensions that exist and which our universe either doesn’t exist on or is in a fixed position on, then it isn’t infinite along those planes.
So, just imagine a situation where you have a higher dimensional space and you have say multiple copies of R^4 living in it. You seem to be assuming the parent space must be the same dimension. The multiverse could be infinite dimensional.
What you are trying to use is that if the dimension of a subspace of a vector space of dimension n is n, then it must be the whole space. True, but we can relax the assumption that the parent space has dimension n.
What you are trying to use is that if the dimension of a subspace of a vector space of dimension n is n, then it must be the whole space. True, but we can relax the assumption that the parent space has dimension n.
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-try to do at last on good ded/day crew
-less cursing the dakness and more lighting candes crew
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08-06-2024, 05:58 AM
#116
Originally Posted By SunnahAndSalaf⏩
It stems from the need for the human mind to understand everything around us, so they made up "gods" to do what they understood as magic in ancient times. Scientific knowledge has advanced since then, and the notion that there is some magic wizard living in the sky to judge people when they die (and who created three separate cults to worship him and kill each other hunger games style over hundreds of years) is just absurd.
Too much noise and attenuation? What if all of them come from some common source? I do find it interesting that regardless wherever you go, society has some sort of belief system. Where does all that stem from. This concept of accountability exists in a lot of religions so it is interesting. Look at the Dharmic and Abrahamic religions which make up the bulk of humanity.
08-06-2024, 06:01 AM
#117
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
The models that assume it is infinite do so. FRLW, for example, assumes an isotropic homogeneous (macroscopic) 4d universe. There are some shortcomings, and the geometry of the universe is still an open question. What matters is simply that we use such models to make predictions.
No, what I’m saying is that if you are going to suggest our universe is infinite then you need to define the ways in which it is infinite. If there are other dimensions that exist and which our universe either doesn’t exist on or is in a fixed position on, then it isn’t infinite along those planes.
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08-06-2024, 06:04 AM
#118
I’m agnostic, I was raised Catholic but grew away from the church as I got older. I look at things from very logical and rational minded viewpoints.
I don’t want to entirely ignore the possibility of some sort of higher power existing in this vast existence we call life, but I don’t ascribe it to any one religion that man has conjured.
I would like to hope that there isn’t simply oblivion after death, it actually freaked me out one night as a 13 year old. But recently I read on another forum the experiences of people who were declared medically deceased and revived they all seem to describe oblivion, they’re overcome with an overwhelming sensation of peace before the blackness simply nothing.
I don’t want to entirely ignore the possibility of some sort of higher power existing in this vast existence we call life, but I don’t ascribe it to any one religion that man has conjured.
I would like to hope that there isn’t simply oblivion after death, it actually freaked me out one night as a 13 year old. But recently I read on another forum the experiences of people who were declared medically deceased and revived they all seem to describe oblivion, they’re overcome with an overwhelming sensation of peace before the blackness simply nothing.
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08-06-2024, 06:07 AM
#119
Originally Posted By CherryPopinski⏩
It shouldn't be that weird. You accept there was a time before you existed. So, why would it be weird for there to be a time after?
I’m agnostic, I was raised Catholic but grew away from the church as I got older. I look at things from very logical and rational minded viewpoints.
I don’t want to entirely ignore the possibility of some sort of higher power existing in this vast existence we call life, but I don’t ascribe it to any one religion that man has conjured.
I would like to hope that there isn’t simply oblivion after death, it actually freaked me out one night as a 13 year old. But recently I read on another forum the experiences of people who were declared medically deceased and revived they all seem to describe oblivion, they’re overcome with an overwhelming sensation of peace before the blackness simply nothing.
I don’t want to entirely ignore the possibility of some sort of higher power existing in this vast existence we call life, but I don’t ascribe it to any one religion that man has conjured.
I would like to hope that there isn’t simply oblivion after death, it actually freaked me out one night as a 13 year old. But recently I read on another forum the experiences of people who were declared medically deceased and revived they all seem to describe oblivion, they’re overcome with an overwhelming sensation of peace before the blackness simply nothing.
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