No true Scotsman fallacy.

You said that my criteria was exclusionary of a traditional woman, and I gave an exact example of how that’s incorrect. At least concede the point before expanding to a different argument.

It's relative to what you make. If I made 7 figures, I would have spent more because you obviously want her to have something nice. However, it should not be an overwhelming expense regardless of income level. If it is, you probably don't have your priorities straight. Seems to me that the more expensive the ring, the more shaky the relationship. I've talked to people that spent 5 figures on a ring only to sell that chit months later in a bitter divorce. Meanwhile I think I spent around 16-hundo and the wife and I just celebrated 8 years married and 14 years as a couple.

Apart from the ring op how are you planning to allocate your finances after marriage, assuming she'll be a stay at home mom? Will you give her an allowance to spend as she likes? Or will she have equal access to and say over your earnings?

Also you always bring up your mom as this perfect angel and your ideal model for a wife. If you compare every woman to her it'll be hard to measure up.

When I was growing up in school, I remember one of my teachers was a really thoughtful guy. He had once assigned us an essay to read called "Body Ritual among the Nacirema".
The essay has been posted below at this site:
https://msu.edu/~jdowell/miner.html

Anyway, what that essay kind of illustrates is how we have developed various customs and integrated them into our culture without even really thinking about it. This topic reminded me of that. Wedding rings, social media, internet, automobiles, etc are all luxurious pieces of technology. Some of them are useful (jewelry has always held the very old purpose of being a way to flaunt wealth and signify high status and prestige). Of course, I enjoy fine things. I like delicious food, I enjoy playing fun computer games on a high end PC. I like to visit cool places. I like my air conditioning. I like high speed internet. I like being able to travel quickly in a car. But…I don't NEED any of this. It isn't important to me. What IS important is the relationships I forge with the people around me and the knowledge I gain. What is important is the strength and athletic progress I accumulate at the gym. Everyone likes material things to an extent because many of them make our lives easier. But they are not the end goal. A man doesn't set out to get rich just to buy a Ferrari, and if he does, he's a fuking idiot. Because it's just a dumb car, and he can't even speed on the road anyway. The primary attraction of wealth to a man is to certify that he is a good candidate for women and to provide for himself a sense of security and power. You can take everything Bill Gates owns away from him, throw his ass in a third world prison cell, and he'd learn to deal with it in a couple of weeks, as would most men. Women are the primary targets of these sales campaigns because you are easily swayed by material objects. Men do not care for such things to the same extent. We care, but not as much. Most guys wouldn't actually want to spend more than like $500 on a ring, but that would be taken as an insult to most women.

I do get your general point (I'm ignoring the other chatter about this thread making this about 'gold diggers' versus 'traditionalists' etc), but the question I have is: why do you perceive the two as mutually exclusive (sentimental value and dollar)?

I'm not talking about vapid gold diggers here. I'm saying that you can balance sentimental value (make an experience of it - fly to Belgium, take a vacation, go to Antwerp like I did and buy one - you'll be hard pressed to find better anywhere on this planet) with putting a decent amount of effort/money into it so that it has 'sentimental value' to begin with.

Rings can be used as symbols of love, but I fail to see why they need to have expensive jewels or be made of expensive metals. They used to be made of copper or iron lol. DeBeers cucked the world. You females have no idea that your "tradition" is the product of a massive ad campaign and mass indoctrination.

Lmao you're so fking salty it radiates through everything you say. How about you accept people have different preferences, I drive a $1000 car and have been for past few years cause I don't care much for vehicles but there's no need to hate or say **** to those who do. Grow up you immature cuck.

The only connection I see there is how experiences can complement sentimental value, and experiences can cost money. So ye, I do agree with that much.

Ok nobody is talking about a diamond being a need or the end goal. It's simply a gift to a woman you love, for her enjoyment. And of course if you pick the right woman she would've married you without any ring at all. Doesn't mean you can't get her one to enjoy.

Btw the mobile site is spamming me with diamond ads now lol.

A stupid purchase is a stupid purchase even if you can afford it. The other day, I was gonna go see Deadpool 2, and I saw that it was 18 FUKIN dollars at the theater (we have a fancy schmancy theater nearby, and they like to charge an arm and a leg for the "premium" experience…lmao). I said fuk that, and waited until Tuesday since they gives discounts on Tuesday. Saw the movie for $8.50. I refuse to spend more than $12 on a fuking movie ticket, and if it's $12, it better be 3d. Period. Even if I were a millionaire, I would still be pissed about spending that much on a fuking movie ticket. You can literally find an illegal woman to blow you for $9/hr. So why the fuk would I pay $18 for a non 3d movie? Jesus.

Oh please. Blind materialism is pathetic, and this type is harmful because it can be used to support an industry that literally fukin enslaves people. Real mature to indirectly help chop some kid's hands off because you wants shinies bro.

LMAO cucked by Shekelstein, but you don't care? You know why you should care? Because somewhere out there, some African kid is getting his hands chopped off because he was too tired to mine harder to get that next fuking diamond so that Stacey can fulfill her "traditional fantasy" that was manufactured by DeBeers. Wedding rings are fine. They are a symbol of love. So why can't a simple copper band be good enough? It was good enough for the Romans, as you mentioned.

I agree, but it could be a simple wedding band. If people thought critically, they would realize that there is no need for gemstones to be there except to signal excessive wealth (which I suspect is the other major draw of all of this.). It is always a tradition of the poor to try to flaunt wealth they do not have. People will buy expensive jewelry and still not have their house paid off. They will live check to check, but try to enjoy the finer things, never content and never making progress to escape the hole they dug for themselves. If the average dude is pulling like $50k a year taxed, you have to wonder how he would ever have the money to buy a fuking $15k wedding ring like the brah in the thread earlier. The opportunity cost of that ring is incredible. Let's assume you would get 10 percent return yearly from investments. After just 10 years, that $15k would have been almost $39k. After 20 years, that would likely be enough for your kid's college fund (even keeping up with inflation and tuition hikes). Meanwhile, instead of having a cool $101k in investments, you are now stuck with a chitty piece of jewelry which your wife has had for 20 fuking years. The novelty of it has worn off, and it's just another ring to her. If you tried to resell it, it would be worth considerably less than what you paid, especially due to inflation and other factors. It's actually just straight up irrational to buy a diamond ring unless you are a multimillionaire or something. And I didn't even bring up the fact that half of marriages end in divorce, and that the marriage usually only lasts 5-8 years, so that makes buying the ring even dumber.

Yeah alright mr high morality over here. Shut the fk up loser. Your view and opinion is just that, yours. Don't go pushing your **** on anyone. You feel so strongly about this? Cool man, go do something otherwise stfu.
You talk about there is no use to it and even attempt to make it sound as if you're being logical, as in the money could be used elsewhere or other items.
But there is no point to life in general so do whatever the fk makes you happy as long as it doesn't harm anyone sense, and you can't even do that you sad sack of ****.

lmao You know I am right, and I made my point so you insult me. I am being logical. I showed you why $15k engagement rings are the dumbest chit ever. Unless you are just rolling in money to the point where you can just piss that away, it's a downright stupid decision to buy them. That $15k could go to something more important. It could reward an economy that doesn't involve slavery. It could be used to create new businesses or pay for your child's education. It could be used to change someone's life for the better. You know what? There is a point to life. It is to survive to reproduce, dumbfuk. An expensive ring cannot and should not bring much more happiness to society than the other things I mentioned. Because those are the things that MATTER. I understand a ring is a symbol of love, and in that vein, a simple metal band should suffice. A lot of people do stupid chit that they think will make them happy, but it ends up hurting them in the end, such as drugs, gambling, buying stupid chit that doesn't matter, etc. That's because they are dumbfuks. So, anyone who knows better should try to explain to them why they are being dumbfuks in an effort (probably vain) to try to get the dumbfukery to stop. Dumbfuk.

i got some friends who didnt even buy diamond lol

Incorrect cucksanormous. Your idea of logic/what you want in life does not correlate with everyone, hence why you're a virgin cuck and bulk people ain't. Sucks eh?
LMAO there is no point to life, there is a solid chance we're in a simulation.
Just lol @ you trying to judge people because you think your views are so much superior/better. Goodluck in life bruh, clearly you're bitter and jaded about everything, prob women, I imagine they cause you much pain.
You sound mad bruh, best just go suck some dick and relax tbh.
Here I am, not a care in the world about what some person does with their own money and you over there crying about being a cuck.
AYYLMAOO

lmao it must be so fukin boring being you.

Yeah because life is fair and everyone gets exactly what they deserve right? Anyway, nothing I said was untrue, and I can't see a single argument put forth by you to invalidate what I said except "Y…Y..Yea, b…b..b..but we like shinies, VIRGIN!!" lol fuk yourself. Learn to think FOR YOURSELVES, you fuking sheep. We aren't "in a simulation." What does that even mean anyway? You just read some popsci article on some bullchit Max Tegmark wrote and you assume it's the way things are. What are the laws of physics for the world outside of the simulation then, fuktard? Why is it useful whether it is a simulation or not? WTF is the point of that? Here you are caring about my opinion and getting all butthurt about it. I made my point, and it rubs you the wrong way. Probably because you yourself are a materialistic little *******. There are smart ways to spend money and stupid ways to spend money. Even if your goal is sentimental and to build a lasting and memorable experience with your wife, there are better ways to do that than buying a stupid ring. You could take her on the vacation of a lifetime for $15k. But most sloots are dumb and easily manipulated so here we are. Guarantee you the dude at DeBeers who engineered this entire scheme bought his wife a simple band lmfao.

hhahahahahah stay mad cucked boyo

Spent $15k.

No fuks given. She would have married me with no engagement ring.

It isn't about how anyone views it. It's about what is right. If she could convince me a stupid ring is worth more than our future child's college fund, then she could have the ring. If her sole desire is shinies, we probably wouldn't get along too well anyway. When I show the argument with interest and chit and really lay out the opportunity costs, it is really hard to defend buying a $15k engagement ring unless you are a multimillionaire. Whatever superficial feelings of satisfaction that could possibly come from such an expensive trinket cannot possibly outweigh the future satisfaction of knowing your child will have an education or that you will pay off your house.

This is like people who do drugs and say "my body, my choice" and then wind up dead with liver failure. Some opinions and decisions are objectively more sound than others because of their consequences. It's not a non sequitur. It totally does follow. A lot of idiots spend, spend, and spend some more on the wedding, the ring, traveling, etc early on in the marriage. And then they live a soul crushing life of debt for the rest of their years. Money spent NOW is ALWAYS worth more than a lot of people would think in the future. People forget this critical fact. That 15k turns into quite a hefty chunk of money later in life. If the marriage survives, the money almost certainly trumps the value of the ring. If the marriage doesn't, the ring was a total wash anyway. It just makes little to no sense to bother spending that much on a ring. Your argument is basically that girls are idiots who have been conditioned to like diamonds and now that they like diamonds we should get them diamonds even though it is a huge waste and helps to create a horrible market which leads to the exploitation of people. Then these same girls turn around and leave the guy later on for another dude with more financial security lmao. God damn. Guys this thread is proof to never be a wk beta cuck. Never just go by what females want, and don't just blindly shower them with gifts. First of all, generally, nothing will ever be enough, and they will always want more, and second of all, they really usually can only think in the now and are incapable of projecting future values and realizing how stupid their decisions are.

Unless you're on that baller time, you shouldn't be dropping $15k on a fuking ring period. I'd say $5k tops since that is supposedly the average (and this is only because you are culturally forced to do it because otherwise the sloot will likely end up comparing it to other sloots and they will vilify you), but it also depends on salary.

You could say that about any spending beyond the bare minimum needed to survive.

Who cares what others spend on things - cars, watches, clothes, holidays, *********, etc etc.

On a diamond? Absolutely nothing. There's nothing rare about a diamond, it's actually one of the least rare.

Look it up if you don't believe me.

Why does he need to buy me a diamond to show his love? It's not reflective of his true feelings and a hardship. I didn't require him to buy me one. I was happy with a ring pop if he wanted to follow the bullchit socially constructed ritual.

However, HE still bought me one because he wanted to follow the social norm. So I bought him one too.

I still tell him what I told him in the beginning, I don't need materialistic things. I need love, companionship and respect. No rock is going to keep me around if those things decline.

Engagement rings shouldn’t cost a fortune. It’s symbolic for your commitment with each other, like a wedding band, how long you commit to wearing them is more important than how much they cost. People keep focusing on the “show” aspect of a marriage (the ring, the wedding), instead of what those two things signify. I’d rather have more money in the bank to start a life as one with my partner, than more shiny things show off with. Funny because with how some people go about it nowadays, more effort was put into planning the wedding than their actual marriage.

Short answer: however much you want to spend on it is how much you should spend on it, the whole concept of the ring should be worth as much as your relationship is stupid, your marriage is priceless.

Paid 5k for my wife's. Bought the loose diamond first , it was 4k. Then 1k for the setting.

Look, it’s marketing and a waste of money but it’s just one of those things that is part of the marriage game.

We all know marriage is the day for the lady. For everyone to focus on her, to see her ring, etc.

Yes, it makes no sense to the guy, but even the most non materialistic girl has fallen under the spell and it isn’t changing.

Every girl dreams of the fairy tale wedding, the ring, the cake, etc.

Every guy I’ve ever known said that the ring wasn’t important but when they got around to buying it, the pressure was there to overspend. That’s just reality.

We don’t have to like it, but those are the rules. It’s the ritual. She wants to run off and show her girlfriends, her girlfriends want to gather around her giggling and hugging each other.

You are overpaying for that emotion. It’s all BS if your a guy, but be around a female friend when she gets engaged and you’ll see what I mean.

Yes, it’s marketing but it has stuck. The engagement ring has become a measure of how much you love her. Not saying it’s not one of the most illogical things ever, but that’s reality.

It’s no coincidence that the female miscers got all wet when the topic of the engagement ring came up. They want it and they want to show it off.

The ones saying it doesn’t matter are full of bs as well. It’s like a girl saying she can’t date you because she is busy and has no free time.

They don’t want to have to text or post on ******** a photo of a cheap ass ring. They want to show off something overpriced and extravagant.

This is a huge example of why marketing works.

I dropped around $10k on my wife's ring… but only because she didn't want a big wedding… we got married on a white sandy beach in front of a whole 10 people that ended up costing us a grand total of $2500 and most of that was photography.

I would directly go to the courthouse and get married before the judge.

No engagement and nothing. I would skip the "engagement" and "engagement ring" part. I would keep the money thus saved in my bank account so I could retire early.