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Forum » The California bar shooting last night...
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Thread: The California bar shooting last night...

post 1565749771 11-08-2018, 05:33 PM
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#121
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Originally Posted By TheFlexatorium⏩
Throwing out statements without any evidence to back it up.https://aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi359

Homicide rate has dropped since the 1990's. The fact is, whether you like to admit it, the gun ban in Australia resulted in less gun related deaths. Am I suggesting this can be replicated in the US? No i'm not because I don't know. Assault and sexual assault cases have either remained steady of has slightly increased mainly due to the increase in public awareness on child protection and domestic violence as data can only be collected by those who are willing to report. It can be safely assumed that these days more people are willing to report cases to the police. So the slight increases are statistically insignificant.

You have to understand as well that I can go and get a gun if I want, the process is long and difficult but it can be done. This is why your regular crazy Joe doesn't have a gun, but a farmer will have one.
ripped directly from your source:
but recorded assaults and sexual assaults have both increased steadily in the past 10 years by over 40 percent and 20 percent respectively.
a bit more than "remained steady of has slightly increased mainly due to the increase in public awareness". and to refute the last part of that statement, also ripped from your article:
However, Ross and Polk (2005) argued that changes in rates of homicide, assault and robbery more likely reflect real changes in the occurrence of these crimes than in a greater propensity to report
nvm the entire fukin article basically implies that public perception is not accurate of the reality, but nowhere does it say that violent crime has reduced. just that reports of how the trends have changed are mixed.

here's the conclusion. sure homicide has dropped, but other violent crimes haven't.
If homicide is the yardstick by which the level of violence in society is measured, then the belief that violence is increasing in Australia cannot be substantiated. The significant increase in recorded assault and sexual assault potentially contradicts this view, but without supporting evidence from other sources of information, such an interpretation can only remain provisional.
I get why you'd want to downplay issues though to support your opinion.
"So t
post 1565750031 11-08-2018, 05:36 PM
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Well, these autists never seem to actually be stopped by a gun wielding citizen - but if I lived in American I'd 100% own a gun.

Gun rights in 'Merica are so politicized you r-tards over there can't even debate it. It just debauches into either 'hur duur libtard' or 'hurr duur redneck'
I identify as a chad with a jawline so chiseled it can cut diamond, don't assume my genetics

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post 1565750371 11-08-2018, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted By maddog352002⏩
How was it incorrect. Japan had legal gun ownership until we nuked them. China did not and Japan owned them. Australia had legal gun ownership and Japan left them alone. Japan refused to invade America because a gun was hiding every blade of grass.

Russians killed 40 million of their own. Mao killed 100 million. Rwanda killed a million. Hitler killed easily 10 million.

Good luck in the next world war with no weapons and 2.6 billion people who hate you within a 3 hr flight.
It was incorrect because neither country has been invaded in the last 100 years, which is exactly what you said. This post is touching on an entirely different subject than the one I replied to.
post 1565750381 11-08-2018, 05:40 PM
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Guns arent the issue, there will always be ways to inflict mass amounts of violence. I believe the problem is with our society and culture. EVeryone is isolated these days. Communities dont exist anymore. People stay inside on the computer or are always on their phone when they are out. Probably turns alot of young adults into psychos. I think we should go back in time without all the dating apps, social media apps, and message boards and people should communicate face to face like nature intended
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1565750541 11-08-2018, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted By TheFlexatorium⏩
It was incorrect because neither country has been invaded in the last 100 years, which is exactly what you said. This post is touching on an entirely different subject than the one I replied to.
We have some of the strictest drug laws and the worst drug issues. Should we have tougher drug laws.
post 1565750731 11-08-2018, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted By LegDayLol⏩
Well, these autists never seem to actually be stopped by a gun wielding citizen - but if I lived in American I'd 100% own a gun.

Gun rights in 'Merica are so politicized you r-tards over there can't even debate it. It just debauches into either 'hur duur libtard' or 'hurr duur redneck'
They actually are stopped quite frequently they just dont get the media coverage, also only around 14% of the population actually can concealed carry. Not to mention over 90% of these shootings happen in "guns free zones" where politician's decided a no guns sign is enough to stop a criminal or mentally ill and banned all law abiding citizens from carrying
post 1565750961 11-08-2018, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted By dhawkeye1980⏩
They actually are stopped quite frequently they just dont get the media coverage, also only around 14% of the population actually can concealed carry.Not to mention over 90% of these shootings happen in "guns free zones" where politician's decided a no guns sign is enough to stop a criminal or mentally ill and banned all law abiding citizens from carrying
it would be interesting to see how many shootings occur in places where guns are allowed that isnt pre-mediated. Example, argument starts at a gun shop and someone gets shot...i bet its not alot
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1565751131 11-08-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted By VegasLifter26⏩
it would be interesting to see how many shootings occur in places where guns are allowed that isnt pre-mediated. Example, argument starts at a gun shop and someone gets shot...i bet its not alot
There's a Darwin award winner who tried to rob a gun store with a bb gun .
post 1565751321 11-08-2018, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Zackad⏩
here's the conclusion. sure homicide has dropped, but other violent crimes haven't.



I get why you'd want to downplay issues though to support your opinion.
Yes, and it is the increase in reporting of these crimes that lead to higher statistics whereas in reality the actual rate is either steady or slightly increased since the 1990's for violent crimes. Homicide has decreased. This was in reply to a poster who said that since the gun ban violent crime has increased in Australia which just simply is not true.
post 1565751571 11-08-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted By maddog352002⏩
We have some of the strictest drug laws and the worst drug issues. Should we have tougher drug laws.
Again you are bringing up an entirely different subject that is not at all related to the issue.
post 1565751611 11-08-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted By TheFlexatorium⏩
Yes, and it is the increase in reporting of these crimes that lead to higher statistics whereas in reality the actual rate is either steady or slightly increased since the 1990's for violent crimes. Homicide has decreased. This was in reply to a poster who said that since the gun ban violent crime has increased in Australia which just simply is not true.
like the article said, if you define violent crime as only homicide, then you're correct. However, there are other crimes such as aggravated assault, sexual assault, robbery, etc that also factor into "violent crime" 2 of which have seen asignificant(as used in the article you posted) increase of 40 and 20 percent respectively, and robbery which follows a cycle typically related to drugs.

40% and 20% increases are not significant, and to say that the increase is only due to reporting is false, as explicitly stated by your article.
"So t
post 1565751711 11-08-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
I know there are a lot of pro gun people on here (mfc crew), but ask yourselves - do you honestly think guns are still more beneficial to society than detrimental at this point?

Pretty much every event that has involved a shooting is proving how senseless it is to allow these weapons to still be accepted in society.

This event that happened in California last night is a shining star example of what I'm talking about.

The majority of the time after a shooting has occurred, gun proponents come out and say "oh well if only there was a good guy there to stop the bad guy none of this would have happened!"

Well, there were SIX off-duty officers at the bar when the shooting happened and an on-duty officer that entered the bar to try and stop the shooting minutes after it started.... who ended up being shot and killed by the gunman. This is not Hollywood... this is real life. The good guy is not always going to win. In fact, the bad guy has the element of surprise (which is a massively underrated factor in these events). The good guy does not. So the odds are not even equal.. they're in the bad guys favor.

And no, he could not have done this much killing with a knife or a pencil. When people get enraged to a certain point and their intentions become malicious they will use whatever means possible to inflict harm. Meaning if they have a firearm the incidence of death suddenly becomes a lot higher.

It's not my place to say you should or shouldn't carry a gun, that is a decision the individual has to make, it's just tragedies like this are a real shame. Like they say though "live by the sword, die by the sword". So if you're comfortable with gun ownership, so be it.. just don't start whinging when there are shootings like these and the one at the synagogue last week. Who knows, one day it might happen to someone you know / love.


inb4 mfc neg train
Man I'm getting tired of fighting against this terrible fear induced anti-gun logic.

#1 - More than a quarter BILLION people have been murdered by their government in the last 100 years. That's 25x more than ALL world wide homicides during the same period of time. Government is the worst murderer in history. HENCE THE 2ND AMENDMENT.

#2 - Your odds of dying in a mass shooting are so statistically low that it might as well be zero. Dead serious. You can do the math yourself. You're more likely to die from lightning multiple times over than a mass shooter in your lifetime.

#3 - Why would anyone with a logical brain give up their guns for something that is essentially a zero likelihood for something that is actually highly probable (democide)?

#4 - The worst mass murders in USA history almost all don't involve guns. 1920's wall street massacre ... horse drawn wagon dynamite bomb that kills 37. If someone can figure that out 100 years ago before the internet ... just lol at a gun ban stopping some psycho in the information age from finding an alternative method.

#5 - I'll never understand why people are so focused on this topic and not the global suicide rate or other things more pressing. More people die by suicide thanallhomicides, conflicts, wars, executions, or natural disasterscombined...EVERY YEAR. That alone should tell you it is not a gun problem but a people/mental health problem.
"There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle." -Gym Jones
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." - Marcus Aurelius

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post 1565752051 11-08-2018, 06:03 PM
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#133
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Originally Posted By faxanadu⏩
Man I'm getting tired of fighting against this terrible fear induced anti-gun logic.

#1 - More than a quarter BILLION people have been murdered by their government in the last 100 years. That's 25x more than ALL world wide homicides during the same period of time. Government is the worst murderer in history. HENCE THE 2ND AMENDMENT.

#2 - Your odds of dying in a mass shooting are so statistically low that it might as well be zero. Dead serious. You can do the math yourself. You're more likely to die from lightning multiple times over than a mass shooter in your lifetime.

#3 - Why would anyone with a logical brain give up their guns for something that is essentially a zero likelihood for something that is actually highly probable (democide)?

#4 - The worst mass murders in USA history almost all don't involve guns. 1920's wall street massacre ... horse drawn wagon dynamite bomb that kills 37. If someone can figure that out 100 years ago before the internet ... just lol at a gun ban stopping some psycho in the information age from finding an alternative method.

#5 - I'll never understand why people are so focused on this topic and not the global suicide rate or other things more pressing. More people die by suicide than all homicides, conflicts, wars, executions, or natural disasterscombined...EVERY YEAR. That alone should tell you it is not a gun problem but a people/mental health problem.
When a muscle bound meat-head gym junkie tries to talk smart


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post 1565752081 11-08-2018, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted By TheFlexatorium⏩
Again you are bringing up an entirely different subject that is not at all related to the issue.
You're argument is that laws work, otherwise why would you ask for more. Guns and drugs would be very similar if outlawed in the us.

The other argument on here is that guns for murders outweigh guns for defense. I proved they don't.

You don't live here so you don't understand. We have geological issues, population issues, diversity issues and historical issues.
post 1565752181 11-08-2018, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted By JamesA1990⏩
When a muscle bound meat-head gym junkie tries to talk smart


I can't wait until the muslims out number the Australians in Australia.
post 1565752321 11-08-2018, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By JamesA1990⏩
When a muscle bound meat-head gym junkie tries to talk smart
Great argument! You convinced me I'm wrong with such great facts and logic...

"There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle." -Gym Jones
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." - Marcus Aurelius

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post 1565752691 11-08-2018, 06:15 PM
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These hot potato threads are always instructive. This latest subliminal push towards some "authority" being responsible for telling who can and can't own guns goes completely against the ethos of American gun ownership, but yet there they go.


You don't get to choose what comes out of Pandora's box.
post 1565752971 11-08-2018, 06:19 PM
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Ban gun control advocates.

Find a country with a constitution you like, *******s.
post 1565754061 11-08-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted By VegasLifter26⏩
Guns arent the issue, there will always be ways to inflict mass amounts of violence. I believe the problem is with our society and culture. EVeryone is isolated these days. Communities dont exist anymore. People stay inside on the computer or are always on their phone when they are out. Probably turns alot of young adults into psychos. I think we should go back in time without all the dating apps, social media apps, and message boards and people should communicate face to face like nature intended
You’re correct. The problem stems directly from the roots of America. The “I’m an individual with god given rights” idea is really the starting of all this. The idea that it is every man for himself to make as much money as possible is the foundation of the USA, and this is the result. Thousands of suicides yearly and mass shootings just about monthly. Everyone is so concerned with their so called “freedom” (which it really isn’t) they forgot about what actually makes a healthy society.. humans are meant to work together and live in a tight knit community. Not locked in their homes shunning everyone.

A successful society is where people work and live in harmony to elevate the whole group. A failed society ( USA) is a society where everyone is working against each other to make some bucks and get on top,which eventually destroys the whole group.

Evil people own the media industry who put out mental and spiritual diseases that infect the youth. Nobody stops it because much freedom of speech! Freedom to poison the minds of children is what it is
post 1565754521 11-08-2018, 06:43 PM
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I plan to put up "gun free zone" sign everywhere to deter criminals and their illegal guns.

**Los Angeles Misc Crew**
*INFJ Crew*
post 1565754711 11-08-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By MyBaddBrah⏩
You completely ignored the argument. Name another 1st world country with the right to bear arms since its inception..
jesus christ i'm so hard right now.
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post 1565754981 11-08-2018, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
The amount of mass killing events in the UK is nowehere even close to the degree of mass killings in the US.. probably because a guy with a knife or sword can be subdued much more easily than someone with a gun. You cant equate a knife/sword to a gun brah.
the u.s. is 40 times bigger than the u.k.

you gonna need some deeper stats
post 1565755061 11-08-2018, 06:51 PM
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Guns are a problem yes, but let's not forget about the bigger picture. This mass shootings are the visible cracks of a broken system. Capitalism only creates isolation and extreme individualization, this rotten and meaningless system is starting to eat itself from within.

Capitalism
Consumerism
Egotism
Vanity
Extreme individualization

Those are the real causes behind these events, we need a RADICAL change in our society otherwise it will implode. And no i'm not religious or a moralist but it's pretty obvious that this empty consumerist and individualist society is beyond hope.

BUT WE HAVE IPHONES AND PORN SO ITS WORTH IT RIGHT?????

We all got cucked by the olygarch overlords. I always lol when people speak about "globalism" stupidly linking it to communism or marxism, globalisation is the ultimate goal of capitalism. 50 years from now we'll all be a bland paste cucked and ready to exist just to consume what the oligarchs feed us, chit we are pretty much already there.
post 1565755491 11-08-2018, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted By suave2000⏩
Guns are a problem yes, but let's not forget about the bigger picture. This mass shootings are the visible cracks of a broken system. Capitalism only creates isolation and extreme individualization, this rotten and meaningless system is starting to eat itself from within.

Capitalism
Consumerism
Egotism
Vanity
Extreme individualization

Those are the real causes behind these events, we need a RADICAL change in our society otherwise it will implode. And no i'm not religious or a moralist but it's pretty obvious that this empty consumerist and individualist society is beyond hope.

BUT WE HAVE IPHONES AND PORN SO ITS WORTH IT RIGHT?????

We all got cucked by the olygarch overlords. I always lol when people speak about "globalism" stupidly linking it to communism or marxism, globalisation is the ultimate goal of capitalism. 50 years from now we'll all be a bland paste cucked and ready to exist just to consume what the oligarchs feed us, chit we are pretty much already there.
Yeah communism and socialism are way less violent. How's Venezuela rebellion on capitalism going.

You're not the first generation to have this idea about communal property. It's failed everytime.
post 1565755691 11-08-2018, 07:01 PM
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OP, the UK banned guns, and their murder rate is almost the same as it was before guns. Plus the murder rate in the US has gone down as much as the UK murder rate since the ban. When does it stop? You can't even buy a kitchen knife in the UK without a 3 day waiting period. I know you see it more, but less people are being murdered with guns or by any means than 10 years ago, and then less people were murdered than 20 years ago. People are just violent. The Chinese regularly go in knifing sprees and kill 10-30 people. A gun allows you to defend yourself, whereas otherwise you might not be able to. Why are there so many gun murders in Mexico, which is a gun free country? Lastly, if guns are illegal, people who want to commit crimes will still have access to them, but you won't. You're just making yourself an easier target.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1565755801 11-08-2018, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted By DIREALBOSS⏩
Stupid Americans love to debate about whether or guns are the problem while they IGNORE the fact that their country is such a failed state, their way of life is so sickening and unnatural that it causes numerous people to lose it and murder each other. The gun doesn’t matter, the fact that you have someone driven to do this matters, because your type of society does not work.

Most of you are so far gone that you take it as a given that there will always be “crazy” people or people who lose it.. but it’s not normal at all, crazy people are the result of a crazy society and that is what we have in the US.
this x1000
post 1565755841 11-08-2018, 07:04 PM
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Another White male shooting up a public area killing children and adults. Why are we not suprised.....




but if it was a Mexican, the MAGA cuckservertive crew would be the first one's bragging about how we desperately need closed borders, if it was a refugee, how the US needs a 0 regufee policy, etc.
post 1565755931 11-08-2018, 07:05 PM
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ban everything
post 1565756011 11-08-2018, 07:06 PM
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I feel ya OP - it was a fukkin sad and horrible thing, everytime it happens it's sad. Don't think with your heart here though, it's okay to feel sad, sorry, frustrated, etc. That's not how you're supposed to solve issues though or come up with solutions.

Fuk - I wish we didn't need to have police or military or worry about any violence, theft, etc. That world does not exist. People die from all sorts of things every day, sure some are more dramatic than others, but what are you trying to solve? Are you trying to save the most lives, or are you trying to prevent the rare, scary things happening?
As shocking as mass shootings are, they are responsible for only a small portion of all gun deaths. In 2016, according to the CDC, 39,000 people died of gun-related injuries. Each block here represents 10 gun-related deaths.
Mass shooting deaths represented less than 2 percent of all gun deaths in the US that year — 456 of nearly 39,000 overall gun deaths.
Meanwhile, more than 14,000 of the gun deaths that year were homicides, and almost 23,000 — the great majority — were suicides.
So again, anytime a mass shooting happens it's this crazy we need to change and ban all the bad things, let's do something. Yet, EVERY FUKKIN DAY someone dies and ya'll are quiet.

People bring up murder rate, gun deaths, etc. Let's look at incarceration rate compared to other countries. Let's look at mental health, poverty, the biggest influencer I feel, and that is CULTURE.

We hype up bad assess while we mock smart people. Going to jail and coming out puts a chip on your shoulder.

Look at how many people are on fukkin meds. Ya, somethin ain't right and we should fix things but focusing on one small TINY minute thing out of the major picture because of your feels is wrong in solving the problem.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." -Will Durant
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure." - Marianne Williamson
"He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." - Samuel Johnson
"It's not over UNTIL I WIN!" - John-leslie Brown (Son of Les Brown)
post 1565756071 11-08-2018, 07:07 PM
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#150
  1. nn586
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