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Forum » How much better would Western Society be without Rap Music????
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Thread: How much better would Western Society be without Rap Music????

post 1571646081 01-20-2019, 10:09 AM
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Any negative effects on society are counterbalanced by the positive effects this song has on my workouts

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post 1571646111 01-20-2019, 10:10 AM
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i cannot sit here and lie. i like some of the "popular rap" because i am a very simple minded person who can enjoy a beat and any type of words. i mostly listen to houston rap (because that is where i am from). the time period i listen to most is probably 2005- 2011. i am not one of these people that pretends like i do the things that these rappers talk about in their music, that's just silly. i listen to some rock and metal but i am not too familiar with that type of music before you rock and metal brahs rip me to shreds lol. i don't like country music. i have tried to get into it but i just can't. i grew up listening to rap so that is what i listen to most of the time
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post 1571646581 01-20-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
You can only be influenced by what you're exposed to. If a 4 year old is exposed to hard-core pornography it will have issues. Ban porn?
Why do you keep bring up banning?

I'm going to ignore that, because not a single person ITT has proposed banning rap. You are the one bringing it up.
The answer is parenting & taking personal responsibility on a grand scale - in response to.your Parent A & B example.
Kids can't take responsibility, that's what differentiates a child from an adult legally speaking (to my knowledge). A child needs a legal guardian, an adult doesn't.

A child is not resonsible for living in a low income violent neighbourhood, they are also not responsible for the development of the hip hop industry, and both of those things will (likely) heavily impact their values.
So if a change in parenting and accepting personal responsibility for the parents is such a grand delusion, target your concern towards said distributors, who by the way, aren't black or poor, jussayin.
I'm black, and I grew up on welfare in London.

Go throw that race bait at someone else.

How can you talk about personal responsibility, and ignore the personal responsibility of the artists and only target the distributors?

The artists themselves are responsible for their content, and they don't seem to care about the toxic values they are promoting.
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post 1571646671 01-20-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Metal and Rock doesn't promote being a gang member, drug dealer, and serial killer.

That's rap music (and Dancehall music).

No disrespect, but if you've listened to a lot of metal and rock, I don't see how you can compare the violent criminality of the lyrics. Rap is way, way worse. They literally make albums based around murdering people, that doesn't happen in any other genre.

edit: Dude above nailed it.
so you excuse music that promotes garbage because it isn't bad as rap? can you not see how bad that logic is? i rather have people rape instead of being ****philes. why not just get rid of all rap, rock and metal? they all promote garbage
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post 1571646811 01-20-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted By ontclone⏩
so you excuse music that promotes garbage because it isn't bad as rap? can you not see how bad that logic is? i rather have people rape instead of being ****philes. why not just get rid of all rap, rock and metal? they all promote garbage
or how about don't take what these people say in their music literally. how about just enjoy the music and don't be a ******* that tries to be like the music star and committ gang violence and do stupid chit
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post 1571647201 01-20-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted By HoustonMiscer⏩
or how about don't take what these people say in their music literally. how about just enjoy the music and don't be a ******* that tries to be like the music star and committ gang violence and do stupid chit
preach HM.
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post 1571647951 01-20-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted By ontclone⏩
so you excuse music that promotes garbage because it isn't bad as rap? can you not see how bad that logic is? i rather have people rape instead of being ****philes. why not just get rid of all rap, rock and metal? they all promote garbage
Rock has a far wider subject range (and is a far, far bigger genre) than rap. Have you listened to much rock and rap, to compare the 2?

Rock promotes hedonistic partying, at it's worst.

Hip literally promotes murder, drug dealing, and being a gang member.

I would say one is significantly worse than the other. I've know, many, many, people who have had promiscuity and drug taking in their past, but they go on to become decent people (I'm not saying those things are 'fine').

The people I've known who have lived the 'gangsta' life, are in and out of prison, and have caused serious harm and misery to innocent people.

IMO one is a far bigger problem than the other.
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post 1571649021 01-20-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted By HoustonMiscer⏩
or how about don't take what these people say in their music literally. how about just enjoy the music and don't be a ******* that tries to be like the music star and committ gang violence and do stupid chit
not disagreeing but i think it's much more complex than that. music influences the brain much more than that. it could almost be seen as a form of brain washing i think, i'm no scientist. and rappers are constantly preaching nonstop. 2pac's if i die 2nite makes me paranoid as **** when listening at night outside. i love pac though, but just using him as an example cause he's influenced me hard as **** in my late teens lol. i was so into the "thug" mentality.

his strictly 4 my *****z album is just totally in that negative atmosphere of reality. i actually don't listen to this album anymore because of the way it affects me mentally. again don't get me wrong i love pac, childhood hero and father figure for me in my late teens.



the hook " cause i'll beat u down like it ain't nothin "



that hook again
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post 1571649221 01-20-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted By HoustonMiscer⏩
or how about don't take what these people say in their music literally.
That's easy to say for people when they don't live in the circumstances, that the rappers are literally talking about.

Some people take it literally, because they are talking about their literal circumstances or experiences.

Also... In regards to black people.... IME the majority of both white and black people will expect you to conform to stereotypes, and rap culture reinforces that message of conformity to those stereotypes. Rap glorifies the stereotypes.

A person who speaks with grammatically correct English, likes to read, has completed higher education, doesn't party, doesn't take drugs, and doesn't like violence, and doesn't listen to rap, is considered 'corny', 'a lame', or (to use misc speak) Beta in the hip hop industry.
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post 1571650161 01-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Why do you keep bring up banning?

I'm going to ignore that, because not a single person ITT has proposed banning rap. You are the one bringing it up.
Kids can't take responsibility, that's what differentiates a child from an adult legally speaking (to my knowledge). A child needs a legal guardian, an adult doesn't.

A child is not resonsible for living in a low income violent neighbourhood, they are also not responsible for the development of the hip hop industry, and both of those things will (likely) heavily impact their values.
Who was parents? When I talk about responsibility im not talking about 14 year olds, I'm talking about parents taking responsibility for what their children are exposed to in terms of, music, television, internet, friends.

I'm black, and I grew up on welfare in London.

Go throw that race bait at someone else.
I don't give a chit if you were born in Timbuktu, are we not talking about impoverished communities who are generally the biggest consumers of rap music?
How can you talk about personal responsibility, and ignore the personal responsibility of the artists and only target the distributors?

The artists themselves are responsible for their content, and they don't seem to care about the toxic values they are promoting.
Because when you sign a record deal or a distribution deal my assumption is youre not outright told, hey guess what! Youre rapping about prostitution & powder! It's a business a rappers will rap about whatever sells & so this takes me back to parenting & exposure.
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post 1571650741 01-20-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
Who was parents? When I talk about responsibility im not talking about 14 year olds, I'm talking about parents taking responsibility for what their children are exposed to in terms of, music, television, internet, friends.
Back to my example.

How would a parent stop their children from interacting with kids at school who show them rap music and videos?

Homeschooling?

How many low income households do you know have parents that have enough time and/or education to homeschool their children?
I don't give a chit if you were born in Timbuktu, are we not talking about impoverished communities who are generally the biggest consumers of rap music?
If you want to go down that route, black people make up the majority of rappers.

I do hold the record executives accountable, but I don't agree with you 'focus on the distributors' position.

The rappers themselves choose to promote the 'gangsta' lifestyle, and will also tell people that they live the lifestyle that they are promoting. They definitely are not telling people that it's 'just music'.
Because when you sign a record deal or a distribution deal my assumption is youre not outright told, hey guess what! Youre rapping about prostitution & powder! It's a business a rappers will rap about whatever sells & so this takes me back to parenting & exposure.
Do you hold the rappers personally responsible for promoting toxic and destructive values and role models in their music?
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post 1571651571 01-20-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Back to my example.

How would a parent stop their children from interacting with kids at school who show they rap music and videos?

Homeschooling?

How many low income households do you know have parents that have enough time and/or education to homeschool their children?
Not at all homeschooling, no. Just engaging as a parent really. If child X is your child's friend & exposing your child to something youre not wanting him exposed to, its not hard to take a trip to the school & explain to the teachers you'd rather they not sit next to each other or be moved to a different class. This chit isn't rocket science.
If you want to go down that route, black people make up the majority of rappers.

I do hold the record executives accountable, but I don't agree with you 'focus on the distributors' position.

The rappers themselves choose to promote the 'gangsta' lifestyle, and will also tell people that they live the lifestyle that they are promoting. They definitely are not telling people that it's 'just music'.
They rap about whatever sells. And if you want it to stop, get under 18s tostop paying for it. Do tell, how do you think children under 16 (UK working age) pay for internet, or purchase inappropriate material? Do they use their own money, or parents'?
Do you hold the rappers personally responsible for promoting toxic and destructive values and role models in their music?
Not really, if socially conscious rap sold, thats what they'd rap about.

I'll ask again, what do you propose to fix this "problem" ?
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post 1571652681 01-20-2019, 11:32 AM
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Imagine how good society would be without the Rock Music that heavily inspired the drug fuelled sex crazy and hippy culture of the late 20th century




I love both genres btw. Rap is a reflection of society as most music is. For some reason as it doesnt align with your view of peoples situations or how the world is its a mirage and a misrepresentation. To eliminate genres and forms/content of music because you dont see it as true is the same thing as barring freedom of speech lmfao

Rap also has inspired and motivated many, though its probably done the same to suburban white kids to hop on drugs (which isnt rap artists or hip hop's problem but their chit parenting if your rich kids doing chit people in the ghetto do because he heard this mong rap it). I legit probably would be a depressed incel or some chit if I never listened to kanye west in high school srs (Before this I thought only Eminem was real rap and listened to trashy pop rock)
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post 1571653501 01-20-2019, 11:43 AM
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*hip hop

rapping is a vocal technique. There's rapping in some heavy metal (technically).

I'm not really into hip hop as a music style, but I do acknowledge that there are intelligent, well crafted hip hop songs out there. This "gangsta rap" garbage is just that, garbage, though.
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post 1571653751 01-20-2019, 11:45 AM
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Just listened to the first track off of Future's album. That **** makes a n***a wanna get that money and work past the struggle.

I realize some rappers take creative liberties to paint a picture through their lyrics and some of it is fantasy so I'm not going to be a degenerate for listening to a line about sipping lean. Just LMAO if you take music too seriously.
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post 1571655171 01-20-2019, 12:01 PM
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I don't mind some rap, well like "Hit em up" where there's some power and actual melody but the sh*t these days and hiphop when you have so many other musical genres display outrageous composition, vocal and instrumental skill? lol. I also just shake my head whenever a female lets me know rap is her favorite type of music, you just know already what you're in for. It's not even just rap, mainstream music is such a pile of sh*t. I love EDM, but the good stuff, not this 5 min keyboard processed auto-tuned over-the-top vocals nonsense. Mainstream music stands for nothing and is pretty unbearable, it's definitely reflecting a more retarded group of people.

Browse through youtube, open your mind, you will discover so much talent that deserves way more success and recognition. I am still wondering when this current phase will end, it's been a LONG time now.
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Originally Posted By EoR⏩
I don't mind some rap, well like "Hit em up" where there's some power and actual melody but the sh*t these days and hiphop when you have so many other musical genres display outrageous composition, vocal and instrumental skill? lol. I also just shake my head whenever a female lets me know rap is her favorite type of music, you just know already what you're in for. It's not even just rap, mainstream music is such a pile of sh*t. I love EDM, but the good stuff, not this 5 min keyboard processed auto-tuned over-the-top vocals nonsense. Mainstream music stands for nothing and is pretty unbearable, it's definitely reflecting a more retarded group of people.

Browse through youtube, open your mind, you will discover so much talent that deserves way more success and recognition.I am still wondering when this current phase will end, it's been a LONG time now.
Feels

At least there are still real musicians out there

Same thing has happened with Movies, it's creatively bankrupt there too
post 1571656331 01-20-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted By DirtyDon123⏩
Feels

At least there are still real musicians out there

Same thing has happened with Movies, it's creatively bankrupt there too
Have you listened to 6lack, J Cole, Kendrick Lamar, Lupe Fiasco brah
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post 1571656841 01-20-2019, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
Not at all homeschooling, no. Just engaging as a parent really. If child X is your child's friend & exposing your child to something youre not wanting him exposed to, its not hard to take a trip to the school & explain to the teachers you'd rather they not sit next to each other or be moved to a different class. This chit isn't rocket science.
Dude... Smartphones are everywhere.

Homeschooling would be the only way to isolate them from kids, who use smartphones to access rap music (which is a very popular genre with kids).
They rap about whatever sells. And if you want it to stop, get under 18s tostop paying for it. Do tell, how do you think children under 16 (UK working age) pay for internet, or purchase inappropriate material? Do they use their own money, or parents'?
Wifi is free, in a lot of places here in the UK. I don't know about the US.

Music is easily downloaded.
Not really, if socially conscious rap sold, thats what they'd rap about.
I don't know why you believe that only the distributors have agency, but the rappers themselves don't.

What about the multimillionaire rappers, who don't need to rap anymore to make money, do you hold them responsible?
I'll ask again, what do you propose to fix this "problem" ?
I don't see how it can be solved, until the artists take responsibility for what they do.
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post 1571657291 01-20-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted By EoR⏩
I don't mind some rap, well like "Hit em up" where there's some power and actual melody w.
That song by Tupac is a prime example of rap degeneracy.

He and his friends are literally threatening to kill rival rappers, and it wasn't an idol threat, there were serious problems between the East and West coast rappers at the time.

When west coast rappers went to NY to make their video for a song called; "New York, New York" some people literally attempted to kill them after rapper Biggie went on the radio and said; that 'Brooklyn needs to stand up' and told Brooklyn the exact location where the west coast rappers were. Then their trailer got shot up.

They were a group of grown men who couldn't resolve their problems with words or even a fist fight, they literally wanted to murder each other.
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post 1571657941 01-20-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Dude... Smartphones are everywhere.

Homeschooling would be the only way to isolate them from kids, who use smartphones to access rap music (which is a very popular genre with kids).
Considering we're talking about impoverished communities, I would assume a smart phone for their children would be the last thing on parents minds... hence, parenting.
Wifi is free, in a lot of places here in the UK. I don't know about the US.

Music is easily downloaded.
Again, parenting. Children should not have access to smart phones & the internet without supervision.
I don't know why you believe that only the distributors have agency, but the rappers themselves don't.

What about the multimillionaire rappers, who don't need to rap anymore to make money, do you hold them responsible?
Business is business. If people weren't morons this wouldn't be a problem. Its the same for other issues, opioid epidemic for example, if people were raised properly they would know, if someone is doing something for money, they dont have your best interest at heart.
I don't see how it can be solved, until the artists take responsibility for what they do.
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post 1571661411 01-20-2019, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
Considering we're talking about impoverished communities, I would assume a smart phone for their children would be the last thing on parents minds... hence, parenting
Yep, we're talking about impoverished communities.

That's why I don't think we can take a reductionist approach to problem solving, or simply tell the poor to solve their own problems, will work...

1) There is research showing that people with low income literally do not make in a 'rational way'. And it seems that low income actually affects the way our brain processes information, we value short term gratification (ie. entertainment) rather than long term planning.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/04/65146...=1540136614422

2) People from low income and high violent crime areas are likely to score high on the A.C.E. test (Adverse Childhood Experiences test). Which has a positive correlation with drug abuse, mental health problems, a propensity for violence, etc.

https://acestoohigh.com/got-your-ace-score/

3) Low income areas tend to have a high rate violent crime, drug, useand single parent households.

4) Under capitalism, a working single parent can not spend enough time with their child, to form a bond that will rival the bond they feel towards their peers. (eg. they spend 8 hours a day with their peers, and a few hours with their parents. Some kids stay home alone, until their parents return.)

The above is important, because several times ITT I've said that if people are from low income violent crime neighbourhoods (which we are talking about) rap is reinforcing the values, and behaviours that they've observed and experiences.

It's not 'just music' to people from low income and violent crime neighbourhoods, it's music that talks about the kind of people, values, experiences, and norms, that they encounter daily.
P a r e n t i n
I agree that parenting is part of the solution, however the parents of children in low income and high violent crime neighbourhoods, also (most likely) grew up in low income and high violent crime neighbourhoods.

Dysfunctional environments tend to create dysfunctional parents.

Placing all the responsibility of a solution on the parents, isn't practical IMO.

Hip hop is a multi billion dollar industry, promoted on radio, TV shows, films, billboards, social media, and by peers.

You've spoken about "they do what they need to, to make money"... Hollywood literally does things that pisses off (mainly right wingers) masses of people (eg. SJW stuff) but they are willing to risk profits, to promote a social and political agenda. The hip hop industry could choose to promote only non-gangsta rap artists... However, they don't.

Expecting a stressed out, probably psychologically dysfunctional or unhealthy, uneducated parent to combat the influence of both the social environment and the hip hop industry is IMO often unrealistic, and uncompassionate (towards the children).
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post 1571661931 01-20-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Yep, we're talking about impoverished communities.

That's why I don't think we can take a reductionist approach to problem solving, or simply tell the poor to solve their own problems, will work...

1) There is research showing that people with low income literally do not make in a 'rational way'. And it seems that low income actually affects the way our brain processes information, we value short term gratification (ie. entertainment) rather than long term planning.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/04/65146...=1540136614422

2) People from low income and high violent crime areas are likely to score high on the A.C.E. test (Adverse Childhood Experiences test). Which has a positive correlation with drug abuse, mental health problems, a propensity for violence, etc.

https://acestoohigh.com/got-your-ace-score/

3) Low income areas tend to have a high rate violent crime, drug, useand single parent households.

4) Under capitalism, a working single parent can not spend enough time with their child, to form a bond that will rival the bond they feel towards their peers. (eg. they spend 8 hours a day with their peers, and a few hours with their parents. Some kids stay home alone, until their parents return.)

The above is important, because several times ITT I've said that if people are from low income violent crime neighbourhoods (which we are talking about) rap is reinforcing the values, and behaviours that they've observed and experiences.

It's not 'just music' to people from low income and violent crime neighbourhoods, it's music that talks about the kind of people, values, experiences, and norms, that they encounter daily.
So then why are even debating this? If its a case where rap is reflecting real life rather than influencing real life to live life as per the rap songs?

Is the answer, fix poverty rather than make rappers not rap about toxic lifestyles?

I agree that parenting is part of the solution, however the parents of children in low income and high violent crime neighbourhoods, also (most likely) grew up in low income and high violent crime neighbourhoods.

Dysfunctional environments tend to create dysfunctional parents.

Placing all the responsibility of a solution on the parents, isn't practical IMO.

Hip hop is a multi billion dollar industry, promoted on radio, TV shows, films, billboards, social media, and by peers.

You've spoken about "they do what they need to, to make money"... Hollywood literally does things that pisses off (mainly right wingers) masses of people (eg. SJW stuff) but they are willing to risk profits, to promote a social and political agenda. The hip hop industry could choose to promote only non-gangsta rap artists... However, they don't.

Expecting a stressed out, probably psychologically dysfunctional or unhealthy, uneducated parent to combat the influence of both the social environment and the hip hop industry is IMO often unrealistic, and uncompassionate (towards the children).
There are but two solutions (since the debate has morphed from the ills of rap to poverty), education & parenting. Until one generation breaks the never ending cycle it won't stop. And changing rap wont speed this up at all.
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post 1571662501 01-20-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
So then why are even debating this? If its a case where rap is reflecting real life rather than influencing real life to live life as per the rap songs?
I didn't write that.

I don't believe it's one or the other.

I believe it's a self reinforcing circle.

The art imitates life, and the life imitates art.
Is the answer, fix poverty rather than make rappers not rap about toxic lifestyles?
No, because of the above.
There are but two solutions (since the debate has morphed from the ills of rap to poverty), education & parenting. Until one generation breaks the never ending cycle it won't stop.And changing rap wont speed this up at all.
Why do you believe that media has no influence upon society?

Do you believe that porn has influenced the sexuality of society, in regards to physical and sex acts preferences?
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post 1571662971 01-20-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
I didn't write that.

I don't believe it's one or the other.

I believe it's a self reinforcing circle.

The art imitates life, and the life imitates art.



No, because of the above.



Why do you believe that media has no influence upon society?

Do you believe that porn has influenced the sexuality of society, in regards to physical and sex acts preferences?
I believe media only affects those that binge or have no real life experience in the matters, or, children (so, the impressionable) & thus, we go back to parenting & education.
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post 1571663561 01-20-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
I believe media only affects those that binge or have no real life experience in the matters, or, children (so, the impressionable) & thus, we go back to parenting & education.
Decade after decade of research and data in the advertising industry says otherwise.

Most people think they can't be influenced by media, yet advertisers know better, and Amazon, google and ******** have the data and algorithms to confirm that they are wrong.
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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1571664181 01-20-2019, 02:00 PM
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Rap was delivered a fatal blow on September 13, 1996 and finally died on March 9, 1997.
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This is all OJ's fault
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post 1571664521 01-20-2019, 02:04 PM
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Didn’t the outlandish homosexual homoerotic male artists hail from England, strong trend setters, Elton John Boy George...
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post 1571666691 01-20-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By kingmanaverage⏩
This is as dumb as when people say games like call of duty are the cause of mass shootings. The correlation between rap and crime is due to the fact that there is a lot of rap songs about guns drugs, and so more criminals can relate.

Rap does not cause crime or gun violence. There's also lots of different styles of rap, and not all are bad.
I would argue there is a bit of a difference. There is no question that people idolize and emulate famous/celebrity type trends, especially the younger audiences. Almost everyone would trade shoes to be the famous girl or guy. Almost no one is trying to trade shoes for real with the call of duty character trying to be in a war zone.
post 1571667961 01-20-2019, 02:44 PM
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smacking inspiration of genius, one measure of this piss is more ass of intelligence than any piece of music produced in the last 20 yrs, from beginning to end. 4:33 -5:03 will set your ass on fire in piss

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