Again, you're here acting butthurt and defending MJ, when I already said I'm not here to argue why he should've been arrested. I'm just here saying why the dude shouldn't be defended and should be called out for what he was - a creep. Just because you would let your kid have sleep overs with him doesn't mean others will.

Again, since you're kind of slow, my post to you was to argue that Michael Jackson was a creepy bastard that is getting the benefit of the doubt because people love his music too much. If there was a smoking gun to him being a ped0, he would have died in jail. But to act like people shouldn't even throw out the possibility that he was at least a creep, is idiotic.

Right, but I believe he was a kind of insane person.

I work in psych and only deal with negative insane people. Existing diagnosis only focused on harmful people, but I have long thought that there has to be positive forms of insanity. For instance, people who are TOO positive to the point where it's not rational to be that positive.

I'm sure there's a lot of humanitarians like that.

Anyway, you are thinking logically about what you would do to protect yourself. Jackson was a guy clearly inspired by Peter Pan, had himself turned white, all appearance of being black removed, and had his face made to look like Peter Pan, a fictional magical elf boy. LIKE HE REALLY DID ALL OF THAT, which was "okay" but when you step back and look at it, far more unusual that being a "tranny" for instance.

So, this is a very driven guy who wanted to achieve his highly unusual dream and did so. He made himself a white elf, thus rejecting all of his black fan base, and he didn't care. He was a guy who did not care much about what people thought of him and he was rewarded for it a lot.

If I found out that his typical breakfast was some unknown food substance made in a nuclear reactor, I would not be surprised at all. Even the way he died was super unusual!! So, using our own personal form of everyday logic is wrong for a person like that.

I don’t see what the big deal
Is he was sucking the kids off too, giving them rim jobs and ****, theme park rides all the candy you want. I’m jealous of those kids

Most people admit that he was over the top with kids. People aren't defending that you goon. they are defending him against the **** claims

you legit said "WHAT WE DO KNOW IS...!!!!!!" and then posted a bunch of stuff that we DONT know lmfao. you then followed that up with the awesome source of...wait for it...VANITY FAIR that was full of "undeniable proof" implying that he may have been moesting children.

lets recap just how flip floppy you are...

you said "they found nothing that he molested kids"

then literally in the same post said: "they had a kid draw MJs penis and it matched photos of MJs penis".

so...you said they found nothing. and then .5 sec later stated they actually did find something. except that never happened. and you're so ignorant you didn't know that the "comparison" was disproved and thrown out. at this point I chit all over your post and prove literally everything you said wrong.

you then backpedal and say "I never said he did anything illegal! just that he's a creep!!" then in the SAME DAMN POST say "he had fingerprints on an adult magazine that also had kids fingerprints on it!!!!"..in this post you imply he was showing kids porno...WHICH IS ..ding ding ding...ILLEGAL.

basically all of your posts state "I never said he did anything illegal" or "they ever found anything illegal" and then two seconds later posting illegal things he allegedly did lol.

oh..and it just so happens that every single point you have was stolen directly, almost word for word, from Vanity Fair. you can call me butthurt for using nothing but strict facts..but I've mopped the floor with you tonight bud. might want to exit the thread and just accept the L. ill take the personal insults in the meantime, though.

Yes, you never explicitly said "he is a child molester"..but the insinuation is so deep in your posts.

Ether.

I'm sure you can get even more than that in a few easy steps, as long as you have visible abs.

What "Ether". Read my posts again.

- I'm not here to say there was concrete proof to imprison MJ. Just that there was enough smoke for me and other people, at the very least, to label him as a creep. And that the only reason people took a tribal approach to him, such as yourself, is because due to being bias.

- The claims that authorities found "nothing" are inaccurate because they did find evidence that were questionable.

- Also, if publications like Vanity Fair and others are citing inaccurate information about what some of the findings were, then they are open to lawsuits because they are spreading misinformation about the case. Michael Jackson's brand could be damaged due to these baseless claims, right? Let's see if his estate takes legal action. I'm willing to bet they don't.

- As for why the kid's lawyer didn't want to include the drawing in court, as you claim, might be due to the fact that if the drawing itself, drawn by a kid, was inaccurate in some aspects, it could be damning to his case. If the kid was able to identify specific markings, that in itself is good enough. In some cases, less is more. The fact that his lawyer didn't want the drawing and photographs to be used in the case doesn't negate the fact if the kid was still able to identify some markings on a man's penis.

Like I said, you're slow. My post to you was to argue that I think there's enough to warrant people thinking the dude was a creep. And that it is enough for his reputation and legacy to be questioned. You're here to argue that his music was too good for a little smoke to void it.

Honest question - If you had a kid would you have let him have a sleepover with MJ?

I did. multiple times. and I destroyed every point you made lol. everyone saw it.there is no such thing as bias when facts are presented. why you are unable to grasp that is beyond me. My opinions are based SOLELY on the findings of the FBI and CA Judicial. This was a multi-million dollar investigation that spanned decades. there Is NO bias involved. strictly facts.Questionable findings mean absolutely nothing in any LEGAL setting. you will never hear a prosecutor base a case on questionable evidence because that raises doubt...doubt is LITERALLY the entire basis for a "not guilty" verdict. so yes. they found nothing.IF you read the VF article, you would have seen that they weren't saying they undoubtedly found this evidence and they were releasing it to the public. They were simply "contextualizing" it so that people could go into the Documentary knowing what would be discussed. The writer got the info from Wades dad. Wade is one of the kids in the documentary that is making the abuse claims. (he also aggressively defended MJ under oath saying MJ NEVER TOUCHED HIM.)

edit - we know you did read it because you basically stole every one of your points from it nearly word for wordon this episode of "markkillerings being wrong"....the comparison was one of the main things that caused no charges to be filed. It was so inaccurate that the lawyer pulled the plug on that entire defense lol. Lemme make it clear: the comparison and drawing was so wrong, off, and inaccurate that the state, after spending $2.5 million, decided it couldn't hold a criminal case.that wasn't your post. If all your post said was "he's a creep bc he shared the bed with kids" I couldn't argue with you. but thats not what you said...you implied that he did illegal/predatory chit with kids and then got mad when I debunked it lol. only when I mopped you did you say "I ONLY said he was a creep!" go read your posts kid. thats not all you said.I never once said anything about his music being good enough to do anything. ever. so on top of being a Vanity Fair thief, you're a dirty liar.
I wouldn't let my kid sleep over anywhere, non family, if I wasn't present unless it was a good friend of mine that also had kids or something.
Those parents allowed it to happen..so why are you asking me? lol. They said it was okay. blame them.

this is getting embarrassing. You got called out for stealing from VF, flip flopping, and now lying. you're getting absolutely wrecked.

leave.

Again, I already said I wasn't making the argument that there is proof he is guilty. I was saying that there were enough finding to show that his behavior was not only questionable, it was enough to label him as a creep. You even admitted in a previous post that I wasn't trying to make the case he was a proven ped0. So what exactly are you arguing about if we're on the same page about this?

I said that there were still enough that at the minimum, people wouldn't be far fetched to label him as a creep, even if he did nothing that would land him behind bars. And that the only reason his defenders can't even do that is because they are bias. Finding stuff like fingerprints on a magazine, etc, are not conclusive proof that the guy was a ped0phile. But it does warrant the question as to why it's part of a pattern of questionable behavior the guy had. In that context, I lean on the side that it's because the dude was at least a creep.

EDIT: I like how you keep saying I'm getting wrecked but you're the one who is still ignoring the basis of my posts itt and that is that Michael, excluding the scenario of any evidence that should have landed him in prison, was at minimum a creepy dude.

You can keep playing the side of “I was just saying he was a creep! That was my only point!” But that’s not at all what you were implying. You brought up evidence of illegal acts (drawing, comparison, etc) and predatory behavior (showing kids porn, exposing himself to kids) and then said “well he didn’t do anything illegal”...dude. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE ILLEGAL. So you contradicted yourself.

you mentioned he didn’t do anything illegal and you think he is a creep. To back up your creep claims, you used evidence that is illegal. You don’t see how that’s flip flopping?

Let’s pretend your ONLY POINT was he is a creep. Okay. Then use the only evidence you factually have: he slept with other ppls kids in a bed. Yep. That’s weird from our POV. Don’t use things that were proven false or made up.


Edit - address the fact that you lied about me saying his music is good enough to give him a pass.

this guy would let his 7 yr old son sleep in the same bed an MJ

This is why I said you're slow. The only way the fingerprints on the adult magazines are illegal is if there is evidence that MJ purposely showed them to the kids. There isn't. It could have very well be a case of the kids getting into his things without his permission. THIS is why I said that there is no proof of any illegal activity, just that there are findings that are questionable. And when it's taken into context to his pattern of behavior, it is enough for me and others to warrant calling him a creep.

Does that make him a ped0phile. Nope, there is no concrete proof that he was, regardless of what I and others think using logic and common sense. But to convict somebody in a court of law, it takes more than logic and common sense.

Also, you don't think his music is good enough to give him a pass?

They have been saying this chit for almost 30 years now. lol like this is something new because a new documentary came out.

Mike nonchalantly admitted he had other people's children sleep in his bed. Of course hes a fuking p***phile, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

you say all that like you know for a fact. those are all local laws. They likely can charge him with something. Same as if kids get into your alcohol or fire arms, its not just welp they were snooping around, you can still be held responsible. He could be hit with Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor type charges.

132 posts and no picture of him dangling the baby over the balcony??

Let's pretend he didn't actually do anything. At the very least, I'm willing to bet that the guy got off on doing creepy ass **** like that. But unless you're in his mind, obviously people cannot be convicted on that alone. But at minimum, the guy was a creep.

If I saw a guy who loved hanging around a restaurant and sniffing the food, at minimum, I would think the guy was hungry.

I dont think most of us can understand his "fascination" with children, but I think that it was something that he was sincere about. I think he really did enjoy things like Peter Pan, theme parks, animals, and the like, in the same way that a child enjoys them if not moreso. I doubt that this "fascination" was a front to lure children into becoming victims of sexual misconduct. He probably genuinely enjoys being around children.

[QUOTE=goodapple post_id=1575462281]I dont think most of us can understand his "fascination" with children, but I think that it was something that he was sincere about. I think he really did enjoy things like Peter Pan, theme parks, animals, and the like, in the same way that a child enjoys them if not moreso. I doubt that this "fascination" was a front to lure children into becoming victims of sexual misconduct. He probably genuinely enjoys being around children.

[youtube]eHiC7HLjyoutube][/QUOTE]this guy would also allow his 7 year old son to sleep with MJ, alone

No, I wouldnt let my child sleep with MJ. I wouldnt let him sleep with you either.

You can definitely be held responsible if a child gets into your alcohol or where you're storing your firearm and something bad occurs because of it. I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is that in MJ's case, just because there is proof that there are fingerprints of the children he had invited over on his adult magazines, doesn't mean MJ himself let them read it. It makes him a really irresponsible and questionable person, but it's not concrete proof of a crime.

But this is what I'm saying that, when taken into context with his other patterns of behavior with kids, it starts getting to the point where it's warranted to call the guy a creep. And I'm puzzled by people who don't say he isn't even that. If authorities were to search my house, they wouldn't find any evidence that would make me look questionable. Why? Because I don't do questionable stuff with other people's kids.

bu..bu....but..I like Peter Pan.

See bold. yourself and others think he is a predator with nothing except “he slept in a bed with kids”..you completely disregard that millions of dollars and a 10+ year investigation came up with NOTHING. It didn’t come up with “some questionable things” like you claimed. It didn’t come up with “some but not enough”...it yielded nothing. And you haven’t missed a beat. Every single post you try to sneakily imply that he was a ped0. You just did it. “Common sense and logic” lol. What logic and common sense?

“There is no proof of illegal activity” then why did you bring up the drawing and comparison that isn’t even true? You brought it up because of what it implies. It implies that he exposed himself to a child. Which is illegal and ped0. This is so far over your head man. Stick to reading VF and debating ppl that don’t know law lol.

And don’t deflect. You said I argued his music was good enough to give him a pass. I NEVER said that. So you lied.

Own up to it.

Yes, I admit that I said you're only defending him because his music was too good. I apologize for not making it apparent that it wasn't a conclusive statement instead of a broad generalization of some people defending him. Hehe. You serious? Yeesh.

Okay, now that is out of the way, like I said, I didn't claim there was concrete proof to convict MJ in a court of law. If you weren't so low IQ, you would have realized this several posts ago. I, and others as well, are saying that there is enough of a pattern of behavior that people, who weren't so bias or slow, would come to the side that at the very least, MJ was a creep who got off on how he behaved around kids. That in itself is not a crime. But if that were the case, that would make him a creep. That is enough for me and others to warrant saying that the dude deserves to have his reputation and legacy tarnished.

Again, I'll repeat it because you're low IQ, I am on the side that thinks he is a creep and anybody who disagrees deserve to be mocked due to their lack of common sense and logic.

Except you said that I explicitly argued that his music was too good so he gets a pass.

When in reality I ONLY debunked EVERYTHING you said. With facts. So you lied.The only pattern of behavior you provided is that he slept in a bed with other ppls kids lol. The other pattern of behavior you mentioned was illegal things that I debunked. All of which would have gotten him in trouble.

YOU cited him exposing himself to kids

That alone ruins your point of saying there was no evidence. You can’t say “there’s no evidence of illegal activity” and then in the next sentence state illegal activity.

Now that that is out of the way....you said there was no illegal activity. Then you listen illegal activity. You then said there was enough behavior to say he was a creep when you didn’t post any relevant or reputable behavior OTHER than he slept in a bed with kids. No one disagrees that that is weird.

So you already admitted to lying. Good job. Now address how You listed illegal acts and then said he never did anything illegal. Go ahead kid. Or do I need to re quote your very own words and show that you did just that?

I love that you keep pretending that you NEVER ONCE implied he may be a ped0. I should go back and bold every insinuation too. Everyone sees it.

Ether.

Here is a link to MJ's doctor.


Michael's dad had him chemically castrated to preserve his boyish singing voice. The guy was a literal eunuch.


https://people.com/music/michael-jac...murray-claims/

There's many examples of fathers, boyfriends, etc from this group treating their kids and women as if they're whores and they are pimps. Tina Turner, Tiger Woods, Jackson, and many more, so I don't find it hard to believe.

pretty sure that's fake cause they took pics of his junk to compare to the kid who "described" his penor

More low IQ merry-go-round. You honestly thought I thought you were defending him because you thought his music was too good? Like that is something you really want to dissect into? You're losing it.

Again, there was findings that show a pattern of questionable behavior. When all put together, do not convict him of a crime. But when looked at as a whole, warrants a lot of people to think that he was at the very least a creep. Said it before and I'll say it again. I never said that he exposed himself willingly to the kid. I said was that the kid was able to identify markings that were on the underside of his penis. All I said is that, if a kid is able to do that, then chances are, you failed at not being a creep. You can go through all my posts to see the context. I also stated that adult-oriented statues were in his room during the sleepovers. If you have links that say these claims are false, post them. And the other thing I forgot to mention is that the hallway leading to his room was equipped with a sound that would indicate if somebody was coming to his room. None of these are concrete proof he is a ped0. But, taken into context, I and others believe that it at minimum made him into a creep.

This, like I said, is a pattern of behavior that warrants people to question his behavior or label him as something something more than just a guy who was "special".

Again, logic and common sense tells me that there is way too much smoke that at the minimum, MJ was at least a creep. And if that's the case, even if he didn't do anything illegal, or could be proven that he did anything illegal, does his actions and behavior warrant people to label him as such. To me, it does. And I personally think people who don't are idiotic.

The guy walked around holding little boys hands and said he shared his bed with them. Most obvious open p.ed ever. They are not normally that obvious which opens questions. And another sick question, why not girls? Not saying all claims are true or false, but no doubt some innaprpriate dodgy things happened. Even if they saw it as innocent.

It's funny how people keep saying "MJ paid the family off so that he can go touring!" Yeah, I'm sure it's more important to have that cloud hanging over you than really clearing your name. Paying off a victim doesn't mean an admittance of guilt. But damn, it doesn't look good. People were just willing to overlook it because Thriller was an awesome album.

This was something I always wondered about. Were there girls who slept over? What I seemed to get was that it was predominantly boys. So either MJ was a sexist, or he just had a preference.