Thread: Death penalty?
11-23-2020, 09:15 PM
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#121
- nosirrahx
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Originally Posted By ChunkBuster⏩
I don't support killing people for killing people.Death penalty?
We also don't ever kill people that commit crimes that lead to suicides. Economically devastate thousands of people and there are likely to be some suicides, no capital crime though.
Then there are all the innocent people accidentally killed by the military, also no justice for them.
There is absolutely no way to kill every person that deserves to be killed so killing anyone as a punishment is by definition unjust.
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11-23-2020, 09:23 PM
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#122
Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
chit logic right here. your definition of a capital crime is absurd really. Collateral damage in war? a capital crime lmao wut? suicides? LMAO lay off the dope no one knows but the minds of the dead person why they killed themselves, and guess what dead men tell no tales, even then what you suggest is insane.I don't support killing people for killing people.
We also don't ever kill people that commit crimes that lead to suicides. Economically devastate thousands of people and there are likely to be some suicides, no capital crime though.
Then there are all the innocent people accidentally killed by the military, also no justice for them.
There is absolutely no way to kill every person that deserves to be killed so killing anyone as a punishment is by definition unjust.
We also don't ever kill people that commit crimes that lead to suicides. Economically devastate thousands of people and there are likely to be some suicides, no capital crime though.
Then there are all the innocent people accidentally killed by the military, also no justice for them.
There is absolutely no way to kill every person that deserves to be killed so killing anyone as a punishment is by definition unjust.
brb cant catch every criminal, so it would be unjust to punish any criminal. - your logic applied to crime in general. trash
11-23-2020, 09:32 PM
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#123
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Originally Posted By gluon⏩
You can't un-kill people.chit logic right here. your definition of a capital crime is absurd really. Collateral damage in war? a capital crime lmao wut? suicides? LMAO lay off the dope no one knows but the minds of the dead person why they killed themselves, and guess what dead men tell no tales, even then what you suggest is insane.
brb cant catch every criminal, so it would be unjust to punish any criminal. - your logic applied to crime in general. trash
brb cant catch every criminal, so it would be unjust to punish any criminal. - your logic applied to crime in general. trash
Logical enough for you?
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11-23-2020, 09:34 PM
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#124
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Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
Read the article, and then tell me you wouldn't have this woman put down.You can't un-kill people.
Logical enough for you?
Logical enough for you?
https://allthatsinteresting.com/mitchelle-blair
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
11-23-2020, 09:51 PM
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#125
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
That's the thing though isn't it. "have her put down" and not "kill her myself". A lot of people talk tough about killing people but if they were actually asked to put a gun to a person's head and pull the trigger, they wouldn't do it.Read the article, and then tell me you wouldn't have this woman put down.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/mitchelle-blair
https://allthatsinteresting.com/mitchelle-blair
Its easy to "kill people" through elected officials, not so much if you had to do it yourself. Execution is only OK with so many people because its out of sight, out of mind.
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11-23-2020, 10:11 PM
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#126
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If it matters to you, it's also worth noting that almost all psychologists reject the concept of free will. You or I or anyone else could get the chair if we had their brain dysfunction and environmental risk factors.
Sapolsky (top top neuroscientist) argues that filling our prisons with the biologically mentally ill (something like 80%+ have measurable abnormal frontal lobe activity) and killing some of them will be looked back on the same way we look back on the days of lobotomies, chaining people to walls, and other "treatments" from the days of yore.
Sapolsky (top top neuroscientist) argues that filling our prisons with the biologically mentally ill (something like 80%+ have measurable abnormal frontal lobe activity) and killing some of them will be looked back on the same way we look back on the days of lobotomies, chaining people to walls, and other "treatments" from the days of yore.
11-24-2020, 08:18 AM
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#127
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Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
I'd do it personally, twice, and I'm not even about making people suffer, I'd shoot her in the back of the head, make it quick and painless.That's the thing though isn't it. "have her put down" and not "kill her myself". A lot of people talk tough about killing people but if they were actually asked to put a gun to a person's head and pull the trigger, they wouldn't do it.
Its easy to "kill people" through elected officials, not so much if you had to do it yourself. Execution is only OK with so many people because its out of sight, out of mind.
Its easy to "kill people" through elected officials, not so much if you had to do it yourself. Execution is only OK with so many people because its out of sight, out of mind.
For the record, I was born in a country with no death penalty, where every criminal is given compassion. It's a shyt hole where you can torture and murder a taxi driver, but only get 3 years in prison because you were 17 when you committed the crime.
Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
Nah, there's no way to rehabilitate some people, so turning them to mulch is a good alternative to having them randomly hurting innocent people.If it matters to you, it's also worth noting that almost all psychologists reject the concept of free will. You or I or anyone else could get the chair if we had their brain dysfunction and environmental risk factors.
Sapolsky (top top neuroscientist) argues that filling our prisons with the biologically mentally ill (something like 80%+ have measurable abnormal frontal lobe activity) and killing some of them will be looked back on the same way we look back on the days of lobotomies, chaining people to walls, and other "treatments" from the days of yore.
Sapolsky (top top neuroscientist) argues that filling our prisons with the biologically mentally ill (something like 80%+ have measurable abnormal frontal lobe activity) and killing some of them will be looked back on the same way we look back on the days of lobotomies, chaining people to walls, and other "treatments" from the days of yore.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
11-24-2020, 08:26 AM
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#128
.
11-24-2020, 08:28 AM
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#129
11-24-2020, 08:30 AM
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#130
- Slayermanlet
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I believe that some people deserve to die, and if someone killed them I'd say good job, but tbh something makes me very uneasy about the state as executioner so I am against it. I dont believe that the justice system should serve the purpose of an avenger.
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11-24-2020, 08:48 AM
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#131
- miscinbro
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Let me give an example of our justice system.
My first summer of law school I worked for a judge, where I worked the judge could interview the jury after trial. I sat in all the arguments from both sides, heard arguments both lawyers presented privately to the bench, etc.
We had a child rape case. The guy was found guilty - wholly - and I mean 100% only based on the testimony of a FIVE year old.
The guy was older, the police raided all his stuff, storage building etc., computer, internet history - the whole nine yards and found absolutely nothing child porn about it. Nobody that knew him testified he was even off around kids. The child who testified had total pos parents that passed her around for babysitting while they were getting high for weeks - probably to people like them. From what I could tell the guy convicted had his **** together better than anyone else in that cluster fck.
The child also did testify to - abuse and described it. I won’t share those details.
So based on the fact a five year old (may have been four at the time because she couldn’t remember the exact dates (duh)) was abused and said this one guy did it - the jury unanimously convicted him.
In that state child rape doesn’t carry the death penalty, but I’d think this kind of thing should absolutely be in the mix for death penalty in terms of what’s bad enough to justify it.
So, a 5 year was abused and she identified one of a revolving door of scum bags as the one that did it.
That’s your justice system.
My first summer of law school I worked for a judge, where I worked the judge could interview the jury after trial. I sat in all the arguments from both sides, heard arguments both lawyers presented privately to the bench, etc.
We had a child rape case. The guy was found guilty - wholly - and I mean 100% only based on the testimony of a FIVE year old.
The guy was older, the police raided all his stuff, storage building etc., computer, internet history - the whole nine yards and found absolutely nothing child porn about it. Nobody that knew him testified he was even off around kids. The child who testified had total pos parents that passed her around for babysitting while they were getting high for weeks - probably to people like them. From what I could tell the guy convicted had his **** together better than anyone else in that cluster fck.
The child also did testify to - abuse and described it. I won’t share those details.
So based on the fact a five year old (may have been four at the time because she couldn’t remember the exact dates (duh)) was abused and said this one guy did it - the jury unanimously convicted him.
In that state child rape doesn’t carry the death penalty, but I’d think this kind of thing should absolutely be in the mix for death penalty in terms of what’s bad enough to justify it.
So, a 5 year was abused and she identified one of a revolving door of scum bags as the one that did it.
That’s your justice system.
11-24-2020, 08:56 AM
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#132
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
Without free will (yes it’s a very questionable, if even a meaningful concept), then your example of mentally ill and frontal lobe abnormal activity is not even needed....no one controls what they think or do, regardless if there is abnormal frontal lobe activity or not.If it matters to you, it's also worth noting that almost all psychologists reject the concept of free will. You or I or anyone else could get the chair if we had their brain dysfunction and environmental risk factors.
Sapolsky (top top neuroscientist) argues that filling our prisons with the biologically mentally ill (something like 80%+ have measurable abnormal frontal lobe activity) and killing some of them will be looked back on the same way we look back on the days of lobotomies, chaining people to walls, and other "treatments" from the days of yore.
Sapolsky (top top neuroscientist) argues that filling our prisons with the biologically mentally ill (something like 80%+ have measurable abnormal frontal lobe activity) and killing some of them will be looked back on the same way we look back on the days of lobotomies, chaining people to walls, and other "treatments" from the days of yore.
Sam Harris makes a point along these lines:
Picture if John commits some heinous act and is put to death.
Scenario A: It comes out later on autopsy that John had a massive brain tumor, that surely would have affected his personality/decisions.
Scenario B: His brain appears “normal” on autopsy, in the sense of no large tumors or other obvious physical pathology.
It seems like people like to treat the 2 above scenarios differently: in A they might be at least a tad bit more understanding and maybe even just feel bad for John and consider it a tragic case for all involved- after all, due to the tumor he wasn’t in his right mind or being rational.
But without free will, there isn’t really a fundamental difference between A and B at all. In that case the hatred of John in B compared to A is misplaced, for in neither case is John in control of his actions, whatever that means. Again it is just a tragedy for all involved.
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11-24-2020, 09:02 AM
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#133
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Depends, only for the most disgusting crimes. Serial killers, terrorists, ...
But one could argue that death is a lighter punishment than life in prison.
What needs to be done is changing society on a structural level. When we get to the punishments after the crime is commited, we're already too late and failed as society imo.
But one could argue that death is a lighter punishment than life in prison.
What needs to be done is changing society on a structural level. When we get to the punishments after the crime is commited, we're already too late and failed as society imo.
11-24-2020, 09:09 AM
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#134
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Death for some is not a punishment. Its a release. . if soneone does somethibg that bad then they need to suffer. Put a sledge hammer in their hands and make them bust ricks kr dig ditches 12 hrs a dat 7 days a week. Eat slop for food. No tv in prison.
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
"it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
11-24-2020, 09:11 AM
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#135
- miscinbro
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
You can punish people for awful behavior without believing in free will, clearly. It’s just really, really hard for people not to hate someone that did something awful. For most of us it’s even harder to punish someone unless you think they “chose” to do whatever deserves the punishment.Without free will (yes it’s a very questionable, if even a meaningful concept), then your example of mentally ill and frontal lobe abnormal activity is not even needed....no one controls what they think or do, regardless if there is abnormal frontal lobe activity or not.
Sam Harris makes a point along these lines:
Picture if John commits some heinous act and is put to death.
Scenario A: It comes out later on autopsy that John had a massive brain tumor, that surely would have affected his personality/decisions.
Scenario B: His brain appears “normal” on autopsy, in the sense of no large tumors or other obvious physical pathology.
It seems like people like to treat the 2 above scenarios differently: in A they might be at least a tad bit more understanding and maybe even just feel bad for John and consider it a tragic case for all involved- after all, due to the tumor he wasn’t in his right mind or being rational.
But without free will, there isn’t really a fundamental difference between A and B at all. In that case the hatred of John in B compared to A is misplaced, for in neither case is John in control of his actions, whatever that means. Again it is just a tragedy for all involved.
Sam Harris makes a point along these lines:
Picture if John commits some heinous act and is put to death.
Scenario A: It comes out later on autopsy that John had a massive brain tumor, that surely would have affected his personality/decisions.
Scenario B: His brain appears “normal” on autopsy, in the sense of no large tumors or other obvious physical pathology.
It seems like people like to treat the 2 above scenarios differently: in A they might be at least a tad bit more understanding and maybe even just feel bad for John and consider it a tragic case for all involved- after all, due to the tumor he wasn’t in his right mind or being rational.
But without free will, there isn’t really a fundamental difference between A and B at all. In that case the hatred of John in B compared to A is misplaced, for in neither case is John in control of his actions, whatever that means. Again it is just a tragedy for all involved.
I don’t believe in free will, and this is hard.
11-24-2020, 09:14 AM
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#136
Originally Posted By latverian41⏩
I wonder if this guy is actually drunk 24/7 do you have a bottle next to your bed when you wake up.Death for some is not a punishment. Its a release. . if soneone does somethibg that bad then they need to suffer. Put a sledge hammer in their hands and make them bust ricks kr dig ditches 12 hrs a dat 7 days a week. Eat slop for food. No tv in prison.
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
also I didn't know slurred speech translated to text so well.
11-24-2020, 09:17 AM
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#137
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Originally Posted By latverian41⏩
Couldn't agree more. American prisons should be more like Black Dolphin in Russia.Death for some is not a punishment. Its a release. . if soneone does somethibg that bad then they need to suffer. Put a sledge hammer in their hands and make them bust ricks kr dig ditches 12 hrs a dat 7 days a week. Eat slop for food. No tv in prison.
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
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11-24-2020, 09:19 AM
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#138
- DoctorJihad
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Originally Posted By Matty5RA⏩
If theres any reasonable doubt then they're supposed to go free.Yeh I fully agree with this.
Indisputable, concrete evidence for premeditated murder and the like, then goodbye life.
Any case where there was a shred of reasonable doubt at trial and wasn’t clear cut, then no death penalty.
Indisputable, concrete evidence for premeditated murder and the like, then goodbye life.
Any case where there was a shred of reasonable doubt at trial and wasn’t clear cut, then no death penalty.
BLM
11-24-2020, 07:08 PM
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#139
- ShanghaiSpecial
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Originally Posted By latverian41⏩
You can choose to give your hard earn money to feed and house criminals.Death for some is not a punishment. Its a release. . if soneone does somethibg that bad then they need to suffer. Put a sledge hammer in their hands and make them bust ricks kr dig ditches 12 hrs a dat 7 days a week. Eat slop for food. No tv in prison.
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
Make prison a punishment like it should be
You kill them and they just go to sleep. They are free. Thats no punishment.
This is why so many ppl get out of prison and go back. They fogure if they get away wigh their crime they are on easy street with money and if they get caught they go to a motel with bars and get cavle tv, sports, drugs to get high, some states allow their partners to come in for sexual visist
The system is a joke. Criminals almost get rewarded not punished.
Make these scum bags do hard labor 7 days a week. I promise when they get out they will choose mcdobaldw ove4 going back to prison. But now they dont give a chit. Its just a holiday for them
People who don't want their money going to feeding and housing criminals should not be forced to.
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