04-23-2024, 04:54 PM
#121
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Okay, my bad for trying to help you.
And the intellectual dishonesty continues. You understood his point so much, you knew you needed to change his point to something completely different to make it make sense.
Don't assume people don't understand, just because they call out BS for what it is.
Don't assume people don't understand, just because they call out BS for what it is.
- alltrapbrah
- Registered User
-
- alltrapbrah
- Registered User
- Join Date: Feb 2013
- Age: 39
- Posts: 5,459
- Rep Power: 42,583
-
Quote
04-23-2024, 04:58 PM
#122
I'm all for it, but I don't ever expect it to be the norm here in the United States. Our economy is profit and competition based (allegedly).
It will never be the standard but I do hope more younger CEO's and Company Owners start to see the benefit in it. People would be happy with a 4 day work week even if it wasn't a F, S, S combo, srs.
With that being said…Fuk a standard 9-5. I will find a way out.
It will never be the standard but I do hope more younger CEO's and Company Owners start to see the benefit in it. People would be happy with a 4 day work week even if it wasn't a F, S, S combo, srs.
With that being said…Fuk a standard 9-5. I will find a way out.
Melvin in Tha Streets. Treycel in Tha Sheets.
Too Legit To Quit
04-23-2024, 05:01 PM
#123
Here's a thought exercise for the "creative intervention / technological advancement" crew ITT…
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
04-23-2024, 05:03 PM
#124
Originally Posted By MikeLowrrrey⏩
Thanks for confirming that when you are saying you complete "10 hours of work" in "2 hours", that's because you are using a computer instead of an abacus.
Nobody in the 1800s thought we'd have cars. No one in the 1900s thought we have email.
Maybe I overexagerated, but no one can see into the future. AI will probably make task completion 10 folds faster
Can you turn 10 hours of work in to 2 in 1 day? Probably not. But finishing tasks 15 minutes faster certainly adds up overtime
Maybe I overexagerated, but no one can see into the future. AI will probably make task completion 10 folds faster
Can you turn 10 hours of work in to 2 in 1 day? Probably not. But finishing tasks 15 minutes faster certainly adds up overtime
04-23-2024, 05:05 PM
#125
Originally Posted By r32gojirra⏩
And here I thought you knew what you were talking about.
The main explanatory variable is the decline in bargaining power as between labour and capital
The other arguments - immigration, dual income households, etc etc - are red herrings employed by capital owners to divide workers and distract from the large scale productivity theft that is occurring
The other arguments - immigration, dual income households, etc etc - are red herrings employed by capital owners to divide workers and distract from the large scale productivity theft that is occurring
My bad.
04-23-2024, 05:08 PM
#126
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Here's a thought exercise for the "creative intervention / technological advancement" crew ITT…
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
wait…how many cookies did timmy originally have again???
Melvin in Tha Streets. Treycel in Tha Sheets.
Too Legit To Quit
04-23-2024, 05:09 PM
#127
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I don’t even know what half that chit means.
Here's a thought exercise for the "creative intervention / technological advancement" crew ITT…
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
The point we’re making is not that complicated.
All we’re saying is that a tractor can plough a field a lot quicker than a guy with a wood plough can.
That’s the basic point we’re making.
Simple, right?
- alltrapbrah
- Registered User
-
- alltrapbrah
- Registered User
- Join Date: Feb 2013
- Age: 39
- Posts: 5,459
- Rep Power: 42,583
-
04-23-2024, 05:10 PM
#128
Originally Posted By Voidgaze⏩
wait…how many cookies did timmy originally have again???
Jokes on you, Timmy is the CNC programmer. He's making the big bucks, and as a company perk, he gets special brownies.
wait…how many cookies did timmy originally have again???
04-23-2024, 05:11 PM
#129
Originally Posted By alltrapbrah⏩
That is simple.
I don’t even know what half that chit means.
The point we’re making is not that complicated.
All we’re saying is that a tractor can plough a field a lot quicker than a guy with a wood plough can.
That’s the basic point we’re making.
Simple, right?
The point we’re making is not that complicated.
All we’re saying is that a tractor can plough a field a lot quicker than a guy with a wood plough can.
That’s the basic point we’re making.
Simple, right?
Are you saying that Mikey did the equivalent of buying a tractor to make his work easier, between when he was hired at his current job and now?
04-23-2024, 05:17 PM
#130
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Dude!
That is simple.
Are you saying that Mikey did the equivalent of buying a tractor to make his work easier, between when he was hired at his current job and now?
Are you saying that Mikey did the equivalent of buying a tractor to make his work easier, between when he was hired at his current job and now?
I am saying… what I have said . SIMPLE.
If YOU have something you want to say, lay it out on the table for us big guy. I’ll read it when I get back from my walk.
- alltrapbrah
- Registered User
-
- alltrapbrah
- Registered User
- Join Date: Feb 2013
- Age: 39
- Posts: 5,459
- Rep Power: 42,583
-
04-23-2024, 05:18 PM
#131
Originally Posted By alltrapbrah⏩
I don’t even know what half that chit means.
The point we’re making is not that complicated.
All we’re saying is that a tractor can plough a field a lot quicker than a guy with a wood plough can.
That’s the basic point we’re making.
Simple, right?
The point we’re making is not that complicated.
All we’re saying is that a tractor can plough a field a lot quicker than a guy with a wood plough can.
That’s the basic point we’re making.
Simple, right?
Why bother using the tractor if you're gonna have to be there 40 hours regardless? Might as well plow.
There's no point in anymore technological advancements past the 1960s. Might as well do everything the old school way since we're in office 40 hours. And if wages are stagnant like people claim, that's a double whammy.
Every employee should just resort to old school 1960s methods, no point in being efficient because you aren't paid to be efficient
- MikeLowrrrey
- Registered User
-
- MikeLowrrrey
- Registered User
- Join Date: Jul 2018
- Age: 54
- Posts: 19,910
- Rep Power: 109,802
-
04-23-2024, 05:20 PM
#132
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
This is where it’s grey area. He didn’t buy it, he created it, out of raw materials belonging to the company. But the intellectual property that allowed him to create it was never specified as belonging to the company, as it is it’s own product that exists outside of his designated workflow, unless otherwise specified by the company that he works for. Even if this is the case, it’s what most would consider a raw deal, and if enough people were cognizant and protective of this, innovation would come to a halt. All of this is a grey area requiring some renegotiations, especially from the lower levels. And this should be more organized, but it isn’t. And when it’s attempted, there are ultimatums that, like we alluded to, are good for the company, and bad for the average worker in the US.
That is simple.
Are you saying that Mikey did the equivalent of buying a tractor to make his work easier, between when he was hired at his current job and now?
Are you saying that Mikey did the equivalent of buying a tractor to make his work easier, between when he was hired at his current job and now?
04-23-2024, 05:20 PM
#133
Originally Posted By alltrapbrah⏩
You didn't even read my thought exercise. Read that first, then answer the question posed at the end.
Dude!
I am saying… what I have said . SIMPLE.
If YOU have something you want to say, lay it out on the table for us big guy. I’ll read it when I get back from my walk.
I am saying… what I have said . SIMPLE.
If YOU have something you want to say, lay it out on the table for us big guy. I’ll read it when I get back from my walk.
I did chuckle at your agricultural example though - you might want to look up what happens when an agricultural society start transitioning towards more developed forms of society.
04-23-2024, 05:22 PM
#134
I think to sum of this thread;
We aren't paid to be efficient. Just do the work as slow as possible, no point in completing it fast
We aren't paid to be efficient. Just do the work as slow as possible, no point in completing it fast
- MikeLowrrrey
- Registered User
-
- MikeLowrrrey
- Registered User
- Join Date: Jul 2018
- Age: 54
- Posts: 19,910
- Rep Power: 109,802
-
04-23-2024, 05:23 PM
#135
You have to be serverely deranged to want a 5 day work week over a 4
I get liking your job but even if you like your job you have to be completley fuked in the head to not want a 3 day work week even
There is no way in hell these types of drones are capable of independent thought
I get liking your job but even if you like your job you have to be completley fuked in the head to not want a 3 day work week even
There is no way in hell these types of drones are capable of independent thought
04-23-2024, 05:23 PM
#136
Originally Posted By Adam16121⏩
I understand where you are coming from, and I agree with you.
This is where it’s grey area. He didn’t buy it, he created it, out of raw materials belonging to the company. But the intellectual property that allowed him to create it was never specified as belonging to the company, as it is it’s own product that exists outside of his designated workflow, unless otherwise specified by the company that he works for. Even if this is the case, it’s what most would consider a raw deal, and if enough people were cognizant and protective of this, innovation would come to a halt. All of this is a grey area requiring some renegotiations, especially from the lower levels. And this should be more organized, but it isn’t. And when it’s attempted, there are ultimatums that, like we alluded to, are good for the company, and bad for the average worker in the US.
But I know Mikey and what he's like, and have suspected that he's full of chit, which he has since confirmed. He takes 2 hours to complete something that would have taken 10 hours at the turn of the century.
04-23-2024, 05:24 PM
#137
Originally Posted By MikeLowrrrey⏩
Some of us aren't, anyway.
I think to sum of this thread;
We aren't paid to be efficient. Just do the work as slow as possible, no point in completing it fast
We aren't paid to be efficient. Just do the work as slow as possible, no point in completing it fast
04-23-2024, 05:41 PM
#138
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Nobody. Which is the point.
Here's a thought exercise for the "creative intervention / technological advancement" crew ITT…
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
I run a small machine shop specializing in small batch contracts. I have have 5 skilled machinists manually cranking out widgets on bridgeports and horizontal lathes.
These guys work for market rate of machinists for a total of 200 man hours per week - the shop runs a single shift every day of the work week.
I decide to invest in a 7 axis CNC mill.
This reduces the need for the skilled trades of the operation (manual machining) down from 100% of the operation, to quite literally 0%.
Now I do have to hire a singular CNC programmer, most likely at a rate that's higher than what the machinists were making… and a couple of semi-skilled labourers to load/unload the machine.
Who in this thread would keep the five machinists on the payroll to sit around the whole week, because a "creative intervention/technological advancement" eliminated their workload?
Those machinists will upskill into more highly paid roles. Capital deepening improves productivity and part of that increase is (meant to be) captured through higher wages.
This is one of the dumber hills you’ve chosen to die on
By reading this post you acknowledge r32gojirra is an online persona and all posts by r32gojirra are satirical in nature. Comments by r32gojirra shall not reflect on the integrity and morals of the author portraying the online character nor any professional or contractual affiliates of the author.
AP4C
HTC
Repped by kimm into 200kcrew crew
- r32gojirra
- Brootal
-
- r32gojirra
- Brootal
- Join Date: Feb 2013
- Location: East Coast, Australia
- Posts: 22,766
- Rep Power: 453,881
-
04-23-2024, 05:46 PM
#139
Originally Posted By r32gojirra⏩
Except I haven't died on this hill - multiple others ITT did. Thanks for going through my thought exercise, and providing your support!
Nobody. Which is the point.
Those machinists will upskill into more highly paid roles. Capital deepening improves productivity and part of that increase is (meant to be) captured through higher wages.
This is one of the dumber hills you’ve chosen to die on
Those machinists will upskill into more highly paid roles. Capital deepening improves productivity and part of that increase is (meant to be) captured through higher wages.
This is one of the dumber hills you’ve chosen to die on
Edit : But thanks for making me chuckle when you said the machinists will upskill into higher paid roles…
04-23-2024, 05:58 PM
#140
So in this fantasy, a McDonald's employee will make time and a half after 32hrs in California, and will make 30 dollars an hr?
As a police officers, will I get a bump in salary pay since I'll be working more than 32hrs a week? Same with firefighters, paramedics, teachers, etc.
As a police officers, will I get a bump in salary pay since I'll be working more than 32hrs a week? Same with firefighters, paramedics, teachers, etc.
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 96,888
- Rep Power: 316,531
-
04-23-2024, 06:03 PM
#141
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Exactly, they want to get paid for 40hrs of work, for only working 32hrs.
I used to work 5 eights , but when I got into the construction aspects of telecommunications, I found 4 tens were much more productive and practical.
Having a long weekend every weekend was awesome too , as I found it was very healthy mentally .But I’m sure these pussies nowadays would want 4 eight hour shifts for the same pay .
Having a long weekend every weekend was awesome too , as I found it was very healthy mentally .But I’m sure these pussies nowadays would want 4 eight hour shifts for the same pay .
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 96,888
- Rep Power: 316,531
-
04-23-2024, 06:05 PM
#142
5 day work weeks are crazy when you think about it.
People in the future with a comfortable work/life balance with the help of AI will look back on us wondering how we had a life working 5 days a week, and still barely afford chit
4 days would be a great improvement, but 3 days would be perfect. That will never happen though.
People in the future with a comfortable work/life balance with the help of AI will look back on us wondering how we had a life working 5 days a week, and still barely afford chit
4 days would be a great improvement, but 3 days would be perfect. That will never happen though.
AP7 crew
04-23-2024, 06:07 PM
#143
Originally Posted By Amp30⏩
So find a job that requires you to only to work 3 days a week.
5 day work weeks are crazy when you think about it.
People in the future with a comfortable work/life balance with the help of AI will look back on us wondering how we had a life working 5 days a week.
4 days would be a great improvement, but 3 days would be perfect. That will never happen though.
People in the future with a comfortable work/life balance with the help of AI will look back on us wondering how we had a life working 5 days a week.
4 days would be a great improvement, but 3 days would be perfect. That will never happen though.
04-23-2024, 06:09 PM
#144
Originally Posted By Amp30⏩
So now you want to work 24hrs a week, and be paid for 40hrs?
5 day work weeks are crazy when you think about it.
People in the future with a comfortable work/life balance with the help of AI will look back on us wondering how we had a life working 5 days a week, and still barely afford chit
4 days would be a great improvement, but 3 days would be perfect. That will never happen though.
People in the future with a comfortable work/life balance with the help of AI will look back on us wondering how we had a life working 5 days a week, and still barely afford chit
4 days would be a great improvement, but 3 days would be perfect. That will never happen though.
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 96,888
- Rep Power: 316,531
-
04-23-2024, 06:16 PM
#145
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
I am not sure why you are so fixated on an hourly wage - that's a rather myopic view.
So now you want to work 24hrs a week, and be paid for 40hrs?
04-23-2024, 06:17 PM
#146
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Anyone would want that, not saying it's realistic. Just saying that'd be the perfect work/life balance.
So now you want to work 24hrs a week, and be paid for 40hrs?
The only people who can pull that kind of schedule while still making good money are business owners who grinded hard early on and aren't attached to a 9-5 hourly wage
AP7 crew
04-23-2024, 06:19 PM
#147
Originally Posted By Amp30⏩
I would consider the
perfect
work/life balance to be 0% work. That's even less realistic, but let's be honest.
Anyone would want that, not saying it's realistic. Just saying that'd be the perfect work/life balance.
The only people who can pull that kind of schedule while still making good money are business owners who grinded hard early on
The only people who can pull that kind of schedule while still making good money are business owners who grinded hard early on
04-23-2024, 06:19 PM
#148
Originally Posted By MikeLowrrrey⏩
There are typically three pay structures:
I think to sum of this thread;
We aren't paid to be efficient. Just do the work as slow as possible, no point in completing it fast
We aren't paid to be efficient. Just do the work as slow as possible, no point in completing it fast
-Hourly. Get paid X amount per hour for your labor.
-Task. Get paid X amount to complete a task/project. The time frame is on you.
-Salary. Get paid X amount to show up to work for the agreed upon days.
You aren't paid to be efficient. You are paid to be at work for the agreed upon days/hours per week. That was the deal you signed on for as a salaried employee.
I really don't have dog in this fight. I'm not a salary employee and will never be. I believe if cutting hours/days at work results in more productivity and profits for a business. Businesses will follow that structure.
Its hard to argue against increased productivity and profitability.
04-23-2024, 06:20 PM
#149
Originally Posted By Amp30⏩
Just work 80 hours per week for 15-20 years. Then you too can have a good work/life balance and work just 24 hours per week.
Anyone would want that, not saying it's realistic. Just saying that'd be the perfect work/life balance.
The only people who can pull that kind of schedule while still making good money are business owners who grinded hard early on and aren't attached to a 9-5 hourly wage
The only people who can pull that kind of schedule while still making good money are business owners who grinded hard early on and aren't attached to a 9-5 hourly wage
That's pretty much what it boils down to brah. Business owners have to grind.
04-23-2024, 06:23 PM
#150
Originally Posted By guest89⏩
Someone finally pointed it out - I was hoping at least someone in this thread would be on the same page.
There are typically three pay structures:
-Hourly. Get paid X amount per hour for your labor.
-Task. Get paid X amount to complete a task/project. The time frame is on you.
-Salary. Get paid X amount to show up to work for the agreed upon days.
You aren't paid to be efficient. You are paid to be at work for the agreed upon days/hours per week. That was the deal you signed on for as a salaried employee.
I really don't have dog in this fight. I'm not a salary employee and will never be. I believe if cutting hours/days at work results in more productivity and profits for a business. Businesses will follow that structure.
Its hard to argue against increased productivity and profitability.
-Hourly. Get paid X amount per hour for your labor.
-Task. Get paid X amount to complete a task/project. The time frame is on you.
-Salary. Get paid X amount to show up to work for the agreed upon days.
You aren't paid to be efficient. You are paid to be at work for the agreed upon days/hours per week. That was the deal you signed on for as a salaried employee.
I really don't have dog in this fight. I'm not a salary employee and will never be. I believe if cutting hours/days at work results in more productivity and profits for a business. Businesses will follow that structure.
Its hard to argue against increased productivity and profitability.
Bookmarks
- Digg
- del.icio.us
- StumbleUpon
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts