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02-05-2023, 04:30 PM
#1831
Originally Posted By rollerball
I’ve always disliked frankenstein guitars put together in parts for no other reason other than I just like to keep the OEM neck with the OEM body.
With an expensive guitar like your Suhr, I get it.

But if you picked up a used Strat and put a Fender licensed neck from a parts builder on it, same headstock even with the decal if it matters to you, only with the specs you want like roasted maple, stainless frets, specific radius and neck carve, etc. without paying Fender Custom Shop prices, what's the issue? Most of these affordable guitars are being assembled by workers on a production line paid close to the minimum wage using parts cut on a CNC.
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02-05-2023, 09:47 PM
#1832
Originally Posted By Dominik
With an expensive guitar like your Suhr, I get it.

But if you picked up a used Strat and put a Fender licensed neck from a parts builder on it, same headstock even with the decal if it matters to you, only with the specs you want like roasted maple, stainless frets, specific radius and neck carve, etc. without paying Fender Custom Shop prices, what's the issue? Most of these affordable guitars are being assembled by workers on a production line paid close to the minimum wage using parts cut on a CNC.
Did I ever post my Lynch guitar? Can't remember lol
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02-05-2023, 10:16 PM
#1833
So, you guys, how do you strike the happy medium between action and tone? Assuming you have to deal with the trade off? If you take Ibanez as being too low action/thin neck, this would rule out other options I was looking at for a guitar too; Jackson, Kramer, Charvel etc. since they are basically built for metal and speed, fly up and down the fretboard quickly.

Choose another model (I can't go back to my Gibson, it sounded lovely but didn't facilitate the speed and style of music I wanted to play, it's not a prog or modern metal guitar)? Or have a custom design with the action specified at a different height?

Or couldn't you change the height of the pickups?


Because I've been procrastinating getting a new guitar because I want the perfect tone and don't want to get anything wrong. Money is no object for me either, I can do a custom build.
Back off, Warchild.

Seriously.
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02-06-2023, 12:04 AM
#1834
Originally Posted By Bodhy
So, you guys, how do you strike the happy medium between action and tone? Assuming you have to deal with the trade off? If you take Ibanez as being too low action/thin neck, this would rule out other options I was looking at for a guitar too; Jackson, Kramer, Charvel etc. since they are basically built for metal and speed, fly up and down the fretboard quickly.

Choose another model (I can't go back to my Gibson, it sounded lovely but didn't facilitate the speed and style of music I wanted to play, it's not a prog or modern metal guitar)? Or have a custom design with the action specified at a different height?

Or couldn't you change the height of the pickups?


Because I've been procrastinating getting a new guitar because I want the perfect tone and don't want to get anything wrong. Money is no object for me either, I can do a custom build.
I don't really find a correlation between guitar and "speed" anymore. Preferred setup is now 1.7mm(12th) action with ~ 0.3mm bow, nut cut as low as possible and of course good fretwork. It doesn't really matter if it's a fat Gibson or a skinny Ibanez and low action ( <1.5mm ) now just feels awkward.

I also think that "action" also has a psychological aspect. An action of 1.3mm on ultra jumbo tall frets looks higher than an action of 1.8mm on vintage low frets. Also an action of 1.5mm on a guitar with a poorly cut neck ( too high ) will feel worse and more uneven than a slightly higher action on a guitar with a perfectly cut nut.
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02-06-2023, 12:10 PM
#1835
Originally Posted By Bodhy
So, you guys, how do you strike the happy medium between action and tone? Assuming you have to deal with the trade off? If you take Ibanez as being too low action/thin neck, this would rule out other options I was looking at for a guitar too; Jackson, Kramer, Charvel etc. since they are basically built for metal and speed, fly up and down the fretboard quickly.

Choose another model (I can't go back to my Gibson, it sounded lovely but didn't facilitate the speed and style of music I wanted to play, it's not a prog or modern metal guitar)? Or have a custom design with the action specified at a different height?

Or couldn't you change the height of the pickups?


Because I've been procrastinating getting a new guitar because I want the perfect tone and don't want to get anything wrong. Money is no object for me either, I can do a custom build.
Ibanez's don't have to have low action, you can have the action set as high or as low as you want within reason. In terms of a thin neck, I'm not sure I agree with Dom that a thinner neck necessarily has less tone.
Imo you want a neck that facilitates the ease of your playing - so in that sense the better the neck fits your playing style likely the better your tone/sound will be.

If you dislike the Gibson (Les Paul presumably) then that suggests to me that you like a longer scale length which provided more string tension which gives a faster response for quick playing.

I'm all about the Charvel USA DK24 HH model - that is a serious shred machine imo.
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02-06-2023, 01:55 PM
#1836
would you rather have a :

1) petrucci ibanez
2) becker kiesel
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02-06-2023, 02:31 PM
#1837
I know this hardly fits the description of a daily driver/beater but considering this one from Shijie.

https://reverb.com/item/65597048-shi...e-skunk-stripe

Hand crafted with:
1) one piece roasted maple neck, quartersawn, with skunk stripe
2) steel frets
3) gotoh locking tuners
4) body 1pc swamp ash
5) top 3mm solid quilted maple
6) seymour duncan SH-2N and TB-4 pickups
7) bone nut
8) gotoh bridge
9) active boost switch
10) neck thickness very close to Suhr modern neck, a little bit thicker than I was hoping but I really like the Suhr neck so it's acceptable
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02-06-2023, 03:15 PM
#1838
Originally Posted By rollerball
In terms of a thin neck, I'm not sure I agree with Dom that a thinner neck necessarily has less tone.
Very few production guitars come with a fat neck so it's not something many will have experience with unless they custom order a neck that size. The Richie Kotzen Tele has the kind of neck I'm talking about. Early 90s Jeff Beck Strats also came with one. Baseball bats.

In my experience the neck has an influence on tone which shouldn't come as a surprise since 2/3 of the vibrating string length runs along the guitar neck. I was able to compare the difference when I swapped necks because nothing else changed — same body, pickups, pedalboard, and amp.

The problem with the OEM route is it can be difficult to get all the planets to align if you're picky about necks. And with a custom guitar while fit and finish can be consistent there are absolutely no guarantees how the finished product will sound. No one knows until it's bolted together, wired, and strung up.
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02-06-2023, 03:26 PM
#1839
Originally Posted By Dominik
Very few production guitars come with a fat neck so it's not something many will have experience with unless they custom order a neck that size. The Richie Kotzen Tele has the kind of neck I'm talking about. Early 90s Jeff Beck Strats also came with one. Baseball bats.

In my experience the neck has an influence on tone which shouldn't come as a surprise since 2/3 of the vibrating string length runs along the guitar neck. I was able to compare the difference when I swapped necks because nothing else changed — same body, pickups, pedalboard, and amp.

The problem with the OEM route is it can be difficult to get all the planets to align if you're picky about necks. And with a custom guitar while fit and finish can be consistent there are absolutely no guarantees how the finished product will sound. No one knows until it's bolted together, wired, and strung up.
Possible then, but in that context I'll still choose neck comfort over a few incremental gains in tone. The Suhr Modern neck is .800" at the 1st fret which is roughly 20mm.
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02-06-2023, 03:52 PM
#1840
Originally Posted By rollerball
Possible then, but in that context I'll still choose neck comfort over a few incremental gains in tone. The Suhr Modern neck is .800" at the 1st fret which is roughly 20mm.
Just to clarify I'd never tell someone to get a fat neck for tone only that if they opt for a profile like that they might perceive some tonal benefits as I have.

For me it was kind of random. I considered refretting the Ibanez but decided because it has a Strat neck pocket I could try a new neck. I originally wanted a '54 Strat profile but the builder (no longer in business) was having some issues, CNC programmer was fired, so long story short the only way to get the neck was to get a super fat C shape with no taper at all. It took a couple of weeks to get comfortable with it which explains why you won't see it on production models outside of the odd signature model like the Kotzen Tele which is almost as thick as mine. Most people would put it straight down or return it.

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02-06-2023, 03:59 PM
#1841
Originally Posted By rollerball
Possible then, but in that context I'll still choose neck comfort over a few incremental gains in tone. The Suhr Modern neck is .800" at the 1st fret which is roughly 20mm.
Just get an AZ2204 and call it a day.
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02-06-2023, 06:06 PM
#1842
Originally Posted By z4v4
Just get an AZ2204 and call it a day.
I had an AZ, neck too thick.

What guitar and amp do you prefer?
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02-06-2023, 06:10 PM
#1843
What is your style Dom?
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02-07-2023, 03:01 AM
#1844
Originally Posted By rollerball
I had an AZ, neck too thick.
Bruh, Suhr Modern is .800 and .850; the AZ neck is .807 and .886. Doth protesteth too much over 36/1000" imo.

Originally Posted By rollerball
What guitar and amp do you prefer?
In that vein, my current is a USA San Dimas through a Boogie.
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02-07-2023, 07:20 AM
#1845
Originally Posted By rollerball
What is your style Dom?
Boomer bends x infinity. Not sure what my style is these days because I'm writing a lot of music on piano. Tone wise I ditched the Two Notes IR/cab sim + studio monitors a year ago and went back to a tube preamp + Walrus ACS1 (Fender) into a real Fender cabinet. How about you?
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02-07-2023, 07:39 AM
#1846
Originally Posted By z4v4
Bruh, Suhr Modern is .800 and .850; the AZ neck is .807 and .886. Doth protesteth too much over 36/1000" imo.



In that vein, my current is a USA San Dimas through a Boogie.
The Suhr neck kind of pushes the limits of how thick I want a neck to be, also I much prefer the carve of the Suhr to that of the AZ. I owned two different AZs and returned them and kept the Suhr, the difference between their necks is enormous to me.

I actually prefer the Charvel speed neck to both which is around 19mm at the 12th which I believe is ideal.
I tend to dislike boogies other than maybe the mark 5, which do you have?
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02-07-2023, 07:52 AM
#1847
Originally Posted By Dominik
Boomer bends x infinity. Not sure what my style is these days because I'm writing a lot of music on piano. Tone wise I ditched the Two Notes IR/cab sim + studio monitors a year ago and went back to a tube preamp + Walrus ACS1 (Fender) into a real Fender cabinet. How about you?
I’m not really a musician, more of a technician-addict and gear-obsessor. I like being able to play things that are known to be difficult from more of a physical standpoint but I don’t actually write much music at all.

Those speedbursts have helped my wrist picking quite a bit as I’ve gone from 180-190bpm 16th notes to 237bpm 16th notes. But tbh that has made my “style” almost insufferable because I’m playing fast but boring, easy to finger diatonic notes all the time lol.

I imagine you sound like jersey’s finest, shmoe satriani.

So I’m actually considering buying an expensive tube amp. The Engl Fireball 25, one of those small lunchbox heads but this one has 6L6 power tubes instead of pussy EL84 power tubes.
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02-07-2023, 07:54 AM
#1848
Originally Posted By rollerball
I imagine you sound like jersey’s finest, shmoe satriani.
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02-07-2023, 08:01 AM
#1849
Originally Posted By Dominik
That link doesn’t work but I assume it’s a picture of pre-bald, mullet-ed shmoe satriani
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02-07-2023, 08:08 AM
#1850
Actually I won’t insult Dom by saying he sounds like shmoe.

Shmoe satriani in a nutshell -

BRB playing the same-y, banal diatonic legato shapes over and over
BRB plays same-y, banal diatonic legato because can’t alternate pick those notes
BRB uses pick to gimmicky-tap on fretboard in nearly every solo
BRB sits in the ionian/aeolian mode all day every day
BRB wear annoying bugeye sunglasses with immaculately shiny dome head

= profit
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02-07-2023, 08:25 AM
#1851
Originally Posted By rollerball
That link doesn’t work but I assume it’s a picture of pre-bald, mullet-ed shmoe satriani
jou got it mang. take 2





Originally Posted By rollerball
Actually I won’t insult Dom by saying he sounds like shmoe.

Shmoe satriani in a nutshell -

BRB playing the same-y, banal diatonic legato shapes over and over
BRB plays same-y, banal diatonic legato because can’t alternate pick those notes
BRB uses pick to gimmicky-tap on fretboard in nearly every solo
BRB sits in the ionian/aeolian mode all day every day
BRB wear annoying bugeye sunglasses with immaculately shiny dome head

= profit
Went in dry on Joe "Situation" Satriani.

This does nothing for you? I'll always be a fan of his early work. I realise every man and his dog can shred it up today with album quality tones in their bedroom thanks to modeling and millions of instructional videos explaining everything but it was special for its time.

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02-07-2023, 08:37 AM
#1852
Originally Posted By Dominik
jou got it mang. take 2





Went in dry on Joe "Situation" Satriani.

This does nothing for you? I'll always be a fan of his early work. I realise every man and his dog can shred it up today with album quality tones in their bedroom thanks to modeling and millions of instructional videos explaining everything but it was special for its time.

[youtube]0U3GkXWJTSk[youtube]
It just doesn’t stand out to me. Sure, for 80s playing that song does have some tasty phrasing and good tone but still elevator-wank to me. Those long, slow, soaring, boomy 80s melodies.
And his legato is always the same chit, for all his vaunted theory knowledge he never seemed to play anything other than standard licks.

Vai, Malmsteen, Johnson, Petrucci.. all his contemporaries were just better guitarists to me.

Shmoe is pretty good at making cheesy, instrumental songs but his technique is like eating white bread on white bread with a single slice of ham and no condiments.
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02-07-2023, 08:43 AM
#1853
One more for you before the Reaper came knocking. 1985 when Jersey Joe's scalp was still furnished with follicles and he was working as a guitar teacher at a music store in Berkeley CA teaching the likes of Alex Skolnick and Kirk Wahmett.



I think EoR tried once to sell you on Joe so I'll humbly admit defeat on this one but he certainly deserves a lot of credit for paving the way for today's Axe FX noodlers. The two most commercially successful guitarists when it comes to instrumental rock guitar are Joe Satriani and Jeff Beck, in the 80s and 70s respectively.
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02-07-2023, 08:51 AM
#1854
Originally Posted By Dominik
One more for you before the Reaper came knocking. 1985 when Jersey Joe's scalp was still furnished with follicles and he was working as a guitar teacher at a music store in Berkeley CA teaching the likes of Alex Skolnick and Kirk Wahmett.

[youtube]XXx-DIa3s0g[youtube]

I think EoR tried once to sell you on Joe so I'll humbly admit defeat on this one but he certainly deserves a lot of credit for paving the way for today's Axe FX noodlers. The two most commercially successful guitarists when it comes to instrumental rock guitar are Joe Satriani and Jeff Beck, in the 80s and 70s respectively.
Like soaring through cosmos in a space-elevator.

At the very least he does have a surprisingly organic sounding string attack for the 80s. I do rather like his tone here and the licks are played with finesse - but then he has to throw in his perfunctory legato lines. Why can’t this motherfukker actually pick 16th notes every once in awhile.
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02-07-2023, 09:09 AM
#1855
Originally Posted By rollerball
but then he has to throw in his perfunctory legato lines. Why can’t this motherfukker actually pick 16th notes every once in awhile.
You don't like legato? I think he was trying to do the opposite of Di Meola. He was also channeling Holdsworth but carved out a niche with 3 notes per string. I understand why you don't like hearing those shapes moved around the fretboard that repeat in octaves — it's quite primitive compared to Holdsworth, Brett Garsed, etc. but it's still effective on those early albums.

I know we've talked about this before but he's probably a victim of his success. Where do you go after a hit album like that? The record company wants more of the same but once grunge hit it technique was out . After a while the well is dry and you're just rehashing the same chit to please fans and earn a living. His playing was a lot more interesting to me back then because he could experiment more and there were only a handful of people playing that music unlike today where there are millions on instagram shredding it up. I could also say the same for early 90s Petrucci vs. today's bearded lumberjack spruiking signature gear.

Let's face it, it doesn't take long for something to become passé.I remember the response to Plini's first album, and he's a big fan of Satriani. Today there are thousands of Plini clones. I don't see anyone talking about him in here these days. Then again he's got his own plugin with all his sounds for millions to copy.

Anyway I've never given two sh*ts for trends. I like what I like. But then I'm not doing it for a living.
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02-07-2023, 09:10 AM
#1856
I'm not the hugest Satch fan but that dude has more guitar knowledge in one fukked up hair follicle than this whole thread
I don't answer questions
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02-07-2023, 09:21 AM
#1857
Go back to 1989 putting this CD on. No way you'd know what the f he was doing even if you spent hours transcribing it. And if you saw him live he never played the same solos on his albums. So even if you'd smuggled a camera in to film him how clear would the footage even be to analyze it?

Today you can sit there and watch someone who has spent 40 years dissecting Allan's technique to a point where he sounds exactly the same. Of course it's a lot easier to follow than to lead. AH created a style and approach to the instrument which is instantly recognisable and entirely his own. And he did it without a music education, youtube, or any other forms of spoonfeeding that we take for granted today. Now if some kid today thinks "Holdsworth solos are easy" then I'd say you would have had no clue like everyone else back then. So how do you evaluate his contribution? Today where everything has been made easy or 30+ years ago?

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02-07-2023, 09:49 AM
#1858
Originally Posted By Dominik
Go back to 1989 putting this CD on. No way you'd know what the f he was doing even if you spent hours transcribing it. And if you saw him live he never played the same solos on his albums. So even if you'd smuggled a camera in to film him how clear would the footage even be to analyze it?

Today you can sit there and watch someone who has spent 40 years dissecting Allan's technique to a point where he sounds exactly the same. Of course it's a lot easier to follow than to lead. AH created a style and approach to the instrument which is instantly recognisable and entirely his own. And he did it without a music education, youtube, or any other forms of spoonfeeding that we take for granted today. Now if some kid today thinks "Holdsworth solos are easy" then I'd say you would have had no clue like everyone else back then. So how do you evaluate his contribution? Today where everything has been made easy or 30+ years ago?

[youtube]PnkQQjuFFbE[youtube]
I’m quite confident that there will never be a time where kids go “Holdsworth solos are easy”.
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02-07-2023, 09:31 PM
#1859
Originally Posted By rollerball
The Suhr neck kind of pushes the limits of how thick I want a neck to be, also I much prefer the carve of the Suhr to that of the AZ. I owned two different AZs and returned them and kept the Suhr, the difference between their necks is enormous to me.

I actually prefer the Charvel speed neck to both which is around 19mm at the 12th which I believe is ideal.
Dunno, man. Those are the specs on both websites, but if it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel good.

Originally Posted By rollerball
I tend to dislike boogies other than maybe the mark 5, which do you have?
I don't like the Mesa compression for rhythm. This is routed through a rack with a Triaxis for mostly leads and a purple SP-77 for mostly rhythms, Fryette power. That hasn't been my thing for a while. My usual is a variety of guitars into stomp boards through Imperial or Bella combos.

Regarding speed bursts making you sterile, take challenging non-linear or non-diatonic lines and convert them into speed bursts by breaking them into multiple 3-9 note bursts (depending on the sequence) and string them together.
Deepfat: "I guarantee I beat you by at least 6 strokes. Afterwards, I'll slide my thick conservative cawk in your old lady just to finish the job."

z4: "So when are you available in September to play?"

Deep: "On second thought, I don't play golf with broads. You're such a scumbag that I'd be much more inclined to just slap the chit out of you."

z4: "MMA match works, too. So when are you available this month?

Deep: "I won't subject myself to being in the presence of a scumbag."
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02-07-2023, 10:15 PM
#1860
Originally Posted By z4v4
Dunno, man. Those are the specs on both websites, but if it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel good.



I don't like the Mesa compression for rhythm. This is routed through a rack with a Triaxis for mostly leads and a purple SP-77 for mostly rhythms, Fryette power. That hasn't been my thing for a while. My usual is a variety of guitars into stomp boards through Imperial or Bella combos.

Regarding speed bursts making you sterile, take challenging non-linear or non-diatonic lines and convert them into speed bursts by breaking them into multiple 3-9 note bursts (depending on the sequence) and string them together.
I think you were responding to my previous unedited post, I was in error. I was using the Charvel speed neck thickness instead of the Suhr modern neck. The AZ doesn't feel bad per se, but the neck just doesn't excite me the way a sleeker neck does.
Is the Bella combo the Suhr amp?

In terms of the sterile, creative-famine playing I don't really mind at the moment. I decided to really hunker down on my mechanics and tone production and it's been yielding results. What I think I really need in terms of the musical side of things is to find a teacher. Left to my own devices I tend to just gravitate to the stuff I'm comfortable with and I'm starting to feel that I need the pressure of a teacher's expectations to force me to be more productive with my practicing.
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