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01-28-2023, 05:58 AM
#2311
Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
Breh no ****ing way. Acogs are worth every penny. Got a TA11 on me FAL and it’s secks.
Even if we had the slightest interest in producing optics, all 19 of our machines are already at capacity.
There are far more advanced optics on the market than ACOGS. If no one else in the optic game is making them, it's because they probably don't think Trijicon is selling enough outside of military contract to even bother with it. Anything patent related on ACOG's have been up a long ass time ago. If anyone thought the market was there for it, good ACOG clones would already be a thing. I highly doubt ACOG's are a great seller at all. If not for mil purchases, I'm sure they would have been discontinued a long time ago.
LPVO's beat the pants off of an ACOG in every way unless you need your LPVO to survive using it as a hammer, etc. In that case the ACOG would still be better.
There are far more advanced optics on the market than ACOGS. If no one else in the optic game is making them, it's because they probably don't think Trijicon is selling enough outside of military contract to even bother with it. Anything patent related on ACOG's have been up a long ass time ago. If anyone thought the market was there for it, good ACOG clones would already be a thing. I highly doubt ACOG's are a great seller at all. If not for mil purchases, I'm sure they would have been discontinued a long time ago.
LPVO's beat the pants off of an ACOG in every way unless you need your LPVO to survive using it as a hammer, etc. In that case the ACOG would still be better.
All your takes are bad man lol. RC2 Surefire suppressor is also goat. Yea let’s prioritize decibels on a round you need to wear hearing pro either way makes sense.
YHM 5.56 budget cans are known for terrible back pressure causing violent cycling making overgassing worse.
RC2 known for low back pressure, durability and superior flash suppression. Ya know the thing 5.56 cans are for.
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01-28-2023, 06:03 AM
#2312
Originally Posted By criminal_manne⏩
Whether or not they’re worth every penny is subjective. If they’re worth it to you, great.
Breh no ****ing way. Acogs are worth every penny.
A $1,000 LPVO still destroys a $1,000 ACOG though lol.
There’s a reason why military is moving on from ACOGS and transitioning to LPVO’s more and more.
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01-28-2023, 06:10 AM
#2313
Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
I own a ~$1,000 LPVO and don’t think it destroys my Acog at all. Both are Trijicon whatever that’s worth.
Whether or not they’re worth every penny is subjective. If they’re worth it to you, great.
A $1,000 LPVO still destroys a $1,000 ACOG though lol.
There’s a reason why military is moving on from ACOGS and transitioning to LPCO’s more and more.
A $1,000 LPVO still destroys a $1,000 ACOG though lol.
There’s a reason why military is moving on from ACOGS and transitioning to LPCO’s more and more.
I do like LPVO’s and think are they are great option for a 16”+ rifle but they aren’t the end all be all choice for an AR like you are claiming.
On a timer can I do a static range bill drill just as fast? Sure. But if you’re moving around shooting off cars and barricades and **** the LPVO adds a level of complexity you don’t have with a dot.
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01-28-2023, 06:38 AM
#2314
The perfect optic doesn't exi………………
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01-28-2023, 06:40 AM
#2315
The only reason to take 300 blk over 5.56 is silent hog murder.
The ballistics on those bullets are trash.
I would expect that Relent is probably correct about the cost of an ACOG for Trijicon.
Trij has already designed the optic, built the forms for the forgings, designed the prisms, designed the lenses, developed relationships with the companies that cut them, built a dealer network, built a rep team, repair department, an accounting team, etc that let them have 1 ACOG make them several hundred percent profit.
The cost for a startup would be much higher, and their unit costs would price them out of the market.
It's possible for Relent to be correct about their costs, without anyone else being able to execute them.
Keep in mind that any manufacturer with a dealer network has to build profit for their dealer in there too.
The ballistics on those bullets are trash.
I would expect that Relent is probably correct about the cost of an ACOG for Trijicon.
Trij has already designed the optic, built the forms for the forgings, designed the prisms, designed the lenses, developed relationships with the companies that cut them, built a dealer network, built a rep team, repair department, an accounting team, etc that let them have 1 ACOG make them several hundred percent profit.
The cost for a startup would be much higher, and their unit costs would price them out of the market.
It's possible for Relent to be correct about their costs, without anyone else being able to execute them.
Keep in mind that any manufacturer with a dealer network has to build profit for their dealer in there too.
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01-28-2023, 06:46 AM
#2316
Originally Posted By OrificeSpunk⏩
Takemymoney.jpg
The perfect optic doesn't exi………………
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01-28-2023, 06:49 AM
#2317
Originally Posted By criminal_manne⏩
Depends on the LPVO you're using. Getting one that's forgiving in those situations is going to be more expensive than a dot, but you add a lot of capability. I'm shooting in a match that goes out to 750 yds this weekend with a 1-8x24, you're not doing that with a dot.
I own a ~$1,000 LPVO and don’t think it destroys my Acog at all. Both are Trijicon whatever that’s worth.
I do like LPVO’s and think are they are great option for a 16”+ rifle but they aren’t the end all be all choice for an AR like you are claiming.
On a timer can I do a static range bill drill just as fast? Sure. But if you’re moving around shooting off cars and barricades and **** the LPVO adds a level of complexity you don’t have with a dot.
I do like LPVO’s and think are they are great option for a 16”+ rifle but they aren’t the end all be all choice for an AR like you are claiming.
On a timer can I do a static range bill drill just as fast? Sure. But if you’re moving around shooting off cars and barricades and **** the LPVO adds a level of complexity you don’t have with a dot.
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What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" are you having trouble with?
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01-28-2023, 07:05 AM
#2318
Originally Posted By Ikeman83⏩
Correct, LPVO is vastly superior to a dot at that distance.
Depends on the LPVO you're using. Getting one that's forgiving in those situations is going to be more expensive than a dot, but you add a lot of capability. I'm shooting in a match that goes out to 750 yds this weekend with a 1-8x24, you're not doing that with a dot.
For a rifle built for 5.56 long range shooting would an MPVO with on dot on top or offset be even better than an LPVO? Say a 2-10.
Other considerations : Match shooting vs I want one want rifle for home defense, boog, rage time etc. Will the average shooter actually take their rifle beyond the local outdoor range that maybe goes to 100, 200 or 300? Also practically speaking when irl we shooting anything with 5.56 at 700 yards.
Taking all this into consideration I’d recommend a simple dot for someone who wants an optic for their first build or wants one rifle for HD or SHTF.
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01-28-2023, 08:23 AM
#2319
Originally Posted By papaburgandy⏩
takemymoney.jpg
morning, mfc. What are we up to today?
morning, mfc. What are we up to today?
typing this from work
so working
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01-28-2023, 09:59 AM
#2320
Originally Posted By bluebeltATT⏩
Disgusting….taking the girls to the mall. I’d rather be at work, lol.
typing this from work
so working
so working
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01-28-2023, 10:08 AM
#2321
Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
The military absolutely is the final arbiter in determining what is best.
Whether or not they’re worth every penny is subjective. If they’re worth it to you, great.
A $1,000 LPVO still destroys a $1,000 ACOG though lol.
There’s a reason why military is moving on from ACOGS and transitioning to LPVO’s more and more.
A $1,000 LPVO still destroys a $1,000 ACOG though lol.
There’s a reason why military is moving on from ACOGS and transitioning to LPVO’s more and more.
That's why my AR's are exclusively 14.5" P&W (stupid AFT) with carbine length gas systems and carbine buffer systems, and carbine length quad rails with fixed front sights
That's also why I only carry a sig sour sidearm and am going to buy one of those expensive Sig rifles in that caliber I forget what it even is
What I do with my rifle is absolutely exactly the same as what the Army does and the Army's product decisions are the only ones we can accept
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01-28-2023, 10:27 AM
#2322
Originally Posted By OrificeSpunk⏩
Tactical AF
The perfect optic doesn't exi………………
Originally Posted By PapaBurgandy⏩
Staying in due to Wyoming getting up to 8" of snow, 30mph winds and dropping to single digit temps soon. I wanted to go to the range to do some shooting, but I feel lazy.
Takemymoney.jpg
Morning, MFC. What are we up to today?
Morning, MFC. What are we up to today?
What's kicking with you?
Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
I prefer 15.5" barrels myself. You still get the benefit of a 16" barrel, but you also get the opportunity to be a patriot and support the federal government with a $200 tax stamp.
The military absolutely is the final arbiter in determining what is best.
That's why my AR's are exclusively 14.5" P&W (stupid AFT) with carbine length gas systems and carbine buffer systems, and carbine length quad rails with fixed front sights
That's also why I only carry a sig sour sidearm and am going to buy one of those expensive Sig rifles in that caliber I forget what it even is
What I do with my rifle is absolutely exactly the same as what the Army does and the Army's product decisions are the only ones we can accept
That's why my AR's are exclusively 14.5" P&W (stupid AFT) with carbine length gas systems and carbine buffer systems, and carbine length quad rails with fixed front sights
That's also why I only carry a sig sour sidearm and am going to buy one of those expensive Sig rifles in that caliber I forget what it even is
What I do with my rifle is absolutely exactly the same as what the Army does and the Army's product decisions are the only ones we can accept
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01-28-2023, 11:01 AM
#2323
Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
Yes, I’m sure the literal dozens of mil forces around the globe that are moving away from dots and fixed power optics and moving to LPVO’s are all wrong about that decision.
The military absolutely is the final arbiter in determining what is best.
That's why my AR's are exclusively 14.5" P&W (stupid AFT) with carbine length gas systems and carbine buffer systems, and carbine length quad rails with fixed front sights
That's also why I only carry a sig sour sidearm and am going to buy one of those expensive Sig rifles in that caliber I forget what it even is
What I do with my rifle is absolutely exactly the same as what the Army does and the Army's product decisions are the only ones we can accept
That's why my AR's are exclusively 14.5" P&W (stupid AFT) with carbine length gas systems and carbine buffer systems, and carbine length quad rails with fixed front sights
That's also why I only carry a sig sour sidearm and am going to buy one of those expensive Sig rifles in that caliber I forget what it even is
What I do with my rifle is absolutely exactly the same as what the Army does and the Army's product decisions are the only ones we can accept
Surely Farley knows better than all their testing and real world use has shown them.
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01-28-2023, 02:28 PM
#2324
Originally Posted By criminal_manne⏩
I use mine for shooting from 3 yds-200 yds at my local monthly 2-gun match, and also run it out to 750/800 yds at gasser matches. I also have a $2500 scope, so yeah, it does both really well.
Correct, LPVO is vastly superior to a dot at that distance.
For a rifle built for 5.56 long range shooting would an MPVO with on dot on top or offset be even better than an LPVO? Say a 2-10.
Other considerations : Match shooting vs I want one want rifle for home defense, boog, rage time etc. Will the average shooter actually take their rifle beyond the local outdoor range that maybe goes to 100, 200 or 300? Also practically speaking when irl we shooting anything with 5.56 at 700 yards.
Taking all this into consideration I’d recommend a simple dot for someone who wants an optic for their first build or wants one rifle for HD or SHTF.
For a rifle built for 5.56 long range shooting would an MPVO with on dot on top or offset be even better than an LPVO? Say a 2-10.
Other considerations : Match shooting vs I want one want rifle for home defense, boog, rage time etc. Will the average shooter actually take their rifle beyond the local outdoor range that maybe goes to 100, 200 or 300? Also practically speaking when irl we shooting anything with 5.56 at 700 yards.
Taking all this into consideration I’d recommend a simple dot for someone who wants an optic for their first build or wants one rifle for HD or SHTF.
Actually shooting helps a lot. The most important factor is that you actually shoot your rifle, but the idea that an LPVO doesn't do well close up is silly.
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What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" are you having trouble with?
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01-28-2023, 03:04 PM
#2325
Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
You are right of course, militaries are only using LPVO's on 5.56 rifles and the military's uses for rifles are the same as ours that's why we should run exactly the same thing
Yes, I’m sure the literal dozens of mil forces around the globe that are moving away from dots and fixed power optics and moving to LPVO’s are all wrong about that decision.
Surely Farley knows better than all their testing and real world use has shown them.
Surely Farley knows better than all their testing and real world use has shown them.
You have a carbine gassed Colt and a Sig Saur pistol right? If not it's your funeral lol
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01-28-2023, 03:22 PM
#2326
All of the MilSpec gear I used for 10 years was (somewhat) shytty compared to my civilian gear.
01-28-2023, 03:29 PM
#2327
Originally Posted By Bo_Flecks⏩
All of the MilSpec gear I used for 10 years was (somewhat) shytty compared to my civilian gear.
That's only because you were in before the time of the sig sauer. Now that the military is issuing sig sauer we should all buy what the .mil is going to because otherwise you dead bro
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01-28-2023, 03:36 PM
#2328
Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
You'd argue with a brick wall.
You are right of course, militaries are only using LPVO's on 5.56 rifles and the military's uses for rifles are the same as ours that's why we should run exactly the same thing
You have a carbine gassed Colt and a Sig Saur pistol right? If not it's your funeral lol
You have a carbine gassed Colt and a Sig Saur pistol right? If not it's your funeral lol
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01-28-2023, 03:38 PM
#2329
Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
You mean to tell me you didn't copy the military and carry a sig sauer pistol but you carry TWO sig sauers?
You'd argue with a brick wall.
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01-28-2023, 03:40 PM
#2330
I’ve mentioned it before on here…The first 1911 I had assigned to me was manufactured by the Singer company. At least the stamped frame was.
01-28-2023, 03:47 PM
#2331
Originally Posted By Ikeman83⏩
Disagree. 300blk is extremely versatile. And extremely portable. Plus it’s all about the pill used and the fill/velocity. I saw ballistic gel/chron of a 110 v-max at 2200-2400 absolutely raging havoc for the 100-200 range mark. Use another recipe for 300+. Throw a silencer and some subs and you have what amounts to a .45 for home defense/close quarters with much better aero and in an AR performance out to 100+. Switch it up again and get some Barnes tac-tx and go hunt white tails, mule deer etx. Throw a silencer on and go shoot up some bacon that never saw it coming.
The only reason to take 300 blk over 5.56 is silent hog murder.
The ballistics on those bullets are trash.
The ballistics on those bullets are trash.
556 ya it can stretch out further. Who cares. If I want 300yrds plus I’m using another caliber. put a silencer on it and some subs and you can kill some squirrels….maybe.
At the end of the day it’s all about what you want to use your firearm for and what fits that bill best for your needs. Everyone have their personal preference…doesn’t mean any of the calibers are wrong.
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01-28-2023, 03:58 PM
#2332
Originally Posted By EDcellent⏩
Nice. Ya I’m really enjoying mine. Have you tried the strobe plus laser? It’s a nice little feature. As soon as my slide gets back from Battle werx I’ll be zeroing the laser and the optic.
I like it. It fits on the gun perfectly, the lazer is super bright and the light has a great "flood" effect for the size. However as I suspected the suppressor blocks some of the light, but that was to be expected. Obviously not the lights fault.
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01-28-2023, 05:03 PM
#2333
Originally Posted By Bo_Flecks⏩
Singer….same company that. makes sewing machines, FFS.
I’ve mentioned it before on here…The first 1911 I had assigned to me was manufactured by the Singer company. At least the stamped frame was.
https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...%20pistol.html
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01-28-2023, 06:11 PM
#2334
Fffffffffffffffuuuuu $95,000 grand
That should be enough for like 380 ACOGs
That should be enough for like 380 ACOGs
01-28-2023, 06:20 PM
#2335
Originally Posted By 28maynard⏩
That's a lot of buk for a sewing machine.
Fffffffffffffffuuuuu $95,000 grand
That should be enough for like 380 ACOGs
That should be enough for like 380 ACOGs
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01-28-2023, 07:11 PM
#2336
Originally Posted By PapaBurgandy⏩
A lot of the 1911s the 82nd ABN had in the 80s had pitted barrels. No telling how old those pistols were.
Singer….same company that. makes sewing machines, FFS.
https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...%20pistol.html
https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...%20pistol.html
01-29-2023, 06:32 AM
#2337
Originally Posted By Bo_Flecks⏩
Rattle like hell, parts from a dozen different pistols, probably.
A lot of the 1911s the 82nd ABN had in the 80s had pitted barrels. No telling how old those pistols were.
Morning, MFC.
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01-29-2023, 07:50 AM
#2338
Originally Posted By Horse86⏩
Disagree. 300blk is extremely versatile. And extremely portable. Plus it’s all about the pill used and the fill/velocity. I saw ballistic gel/chron of a 110 v-max at 2200-2400 absolutely raging havoc for the 100-200 range mark. Use another recipe for 300+. Throw a silencer and some subs and you have what amounts to a .45 for home defense/close quarters with much better aero and in an AR performance out to 100+. Switch it up again and get some Barnes tac-tx and go hunt white tails, mule deer etx. Throw a silencer on and go shoot up some bacon that never saw it coming.
556 ya it can stretch out further. Who cares. If I want 300yrds plus I’m using another caliber. put a silencer on it and some subs and you can kill some squirrels….maybe.
At the end of the day it’s all about what you want to use your firearm for and what fits that bill best for your needs. Everyone have their personal preference…doesn’t mean any of the calibers are wrong.
556 ya it can stretch out further. Who cares. If I want 300yrds plus I’m using another caliber. put a silencer on it and some subs and you can kill some squirrels….maybe.
At the end of the day it’s all about what you want to use your firearm for and what fits that bill best for your needs. Everyone have their personal preference…doesn’t mean any of the calibers are wrong.
Everything 300 blk does well, something else does better. To get that 2400 fps, you're running a 16" bbl, which defeats the point of the gun. You're not fighting your way in to/out of an area requiring supers and using subs in the area to perform a quiet hit with a full auto rifle, which is what 300 was designed for.
300 has worse overpen concerns compared to 5.56, particularly if you miss, so watch your shooting lanes if that's your hd choice.
Meanwhile you're paying 60 cpr for trash ammo so you're shooting less. 300 blk is a trap.
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What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" are you having trouble with?
Misc Firearms Crew
01-29-2023, 08:09 AM
#2339
Found a good price on an 8" 300 blk Wilson Combat match barrel.
Should be great.
My other Wilson barrel is very accurate.
Should be great.
My other Wilson barrel is very accurate.
01-29-2023, 08:58 AM
#2340
Originally Posted By PapaBurgandy⏩
Yeah, the picture of the one that I posted last night (didn’t intend to leave that pic up for more than an hour) rattled when you shook it. It was the second 1911A1 that was assigned to me, and had a Colt (no horse emblem) slide on it. The pistol’s finish was sort of a weird grey/greenish color. I figured it was Parkerized or something like that.
Rattle like hell, parts from a dozen different pistols, probably.
Morning, MFC.
Morning, MFC.
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