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Forum » Guitar Megathread II: Unleash the picking fury!!!
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Thread: Guitar Megathread II: Unleash the picking fury!!!

post 1689935673 09-12-2023, 11:04 AM
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post 1689937023 09-12-2023, 11:21 AM
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Jump to 8 minutes in. He unlocked the secrets to Eric's lead tone and took it up a notch. I don't think it gets any better than that.



Glad he's now comfortable talking about how much he ripped him.

post 1689938513 09-12-2023, 11:39 AM
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post 1689955483 09-12-2023, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
Man you have fukking great tone. What is your full setup?
Well .. since I'm too lazy to re-install my Waza TAE and plug it back to my tube amps, one month ago I said fuk it, picked up my Katana Head from the shelf, placed it on my desk and just used that since then.
Through its own built in speakers I may add. LOL
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post 1689955563 09-12-2023, 04:34 PM
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post 1689964183 09-12-2023, 07:38 PM
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post 1689971763 09-12-2023, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
Okay z4v4 I tried the 3 note Dorian scale thing for awhile over Cmi - the C, D, and Eb thing. It was mind-numbing but I also saw the value that it started making me see C, D, and Eb and different parts of the neck and it also seems to be priming my ear a bit for it.

I gotta admit it was too painful I had to switch to at least the 4 note Dorian thing with the F added. I like this exercise over the Cmi way more lol.
Do you know the sound of Dorian when you hear it? That to me is 100 times more important than playing it.
post 1689972883 09-13-2023, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted By Dominik⏩
Do you know the sound of Dorian when you hear it? That to me is 100 times more important than playing it.
Two things come to mind when I hear Dorian:

1. The medieval bard/ballad style sound.


2. Kriss Olivia from Savatage. Dude got some awesome sounds out of that scale. RIP.
Back off, Warchild.

Seriously.
post 1689989373 09-13-2023, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
Okay z4v4 I tried the 3 note Dorian scale thing for awhile over Cmi - the C, D, and Eb thing. It was mind-numbing but I also saw the value that it started making me see C, D, and Eb and different parts of the neck and it also seems to be priming my ear a bit for it.

I gotta admit it was too painful I had to switch to at least the 4 note Dorian thing with the F added. I like this exercise over the Cmi way more lol.
It's hard to stay disciplined when you have technique to draw from. The difference between practicing and playing guitar is that when you're practicing, you usually don't sound very good because you're working on something that you can't do.

If you're playing 3 notes, are you using every articulation (bend, slide, slur, staccato, tenuto, marcato, etc) that you can on and between those 3 notes?

You can start off with 4 notes, but if you cant hear those 4 pitches in your head when you're using them for improv, then you need to back it down to 3. If you can't hear 3, back it down to two...

You want to know what those pitches are going to sound like before they are played so that you can use your ears to tell you which of those notes to play. Play with your ears, not your fingers.

That said, if you can hear those 3 notes pretty well, then you can climb it up by dropping the bottom note (or the upper depending where you are) and adding a higher (or lower) note (e.g., 10m with C, D, Eb, then 10m with Bb, C, D, then 10m with all four Bb, C, D, Eb).

You should post it so we can hear what you're doing with it.
Deepfat: "I guarantee I beat you by at least 6 strokes. Afterwards, I'll slide my thick conservative cawk in your old lady just to finish the job."

z4: "So when are you available in September to play?"

Deep: "On second thought, I don't play golf with broads. You're such a scumbag that I'd be much more inclined to just slap the chit out of you."

z4: "MMA match works, too. So when are you available this month?

Deep: "I won't subject myself to being in the presence of a scumbag."
post 1689991843 09-13-2023, 10:45 AM
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Steve's new tech is a real nerd which is good because so am I. Some great information here.

post 1689993273 09-13-2023, 11:10 AM
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post 1689994503 09-13-2023, 11:33 AM
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my replacement looper pedal just got delivered, can't wait to get that going again. So much funner being able to make a back tracking to jam over.



Empty house at lunch break so I plugged in my 79 and turned the 100W head up to around 6-7 volume. couldn't even stand in front of the tower hah
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post 1689999563 09-13-2023, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
I do right now to some degree because I'm futzing with it specifically but if you were to ask me before trying z4v4's 3 note practice I would not be able to identify it.
Keep in mind that Dorian doesn't reveal itself as different than minor (Aeolian) until the A note is introduced.

C Minor: C D Eb F G Ab Bb
C Dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb
Deepfat: "I guarantee I beat you by at least 6 strokes. Afterwards, I'll slide my thick conservative cawk in your old lady just to finish the job."

z4: "So when are you available in September to play?"

Deep: "On second thought, I don't play golf with broads. You're such a scumbag that I'd be much more inclined to just slap the chit out of you."

z4: "MMA match works, too. So when are you available this month?

Deep: "I won't subject myself to being in the presence of a scumbag."
post 1690001223 09-13-2023, 01:21 PM
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post 1690003533 09-13-2023, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
I do right now to some degree because I'm futzing with it specifically but if you were to ask me before trying z4v4's 3 note practice I would not be able to identify it.
One thing I'm working on currently is playing all 7 modes over a drone track.

I'll loop a drone track in C for example then noodle with C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian, etc.

It helps me hear the flavours.
post 1690005913 09-13-2023, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
Ah okay, so nevermind Dom, my pathetic noob ears cannot distinguish the Dorian sound yet lol.
The perfect song to hear the difference between Dorian and minor is Eleanor Rigby. The verses are Dorian and the chorus is natural minor.

What defines the sound of each mode is the location of the tritone interval. With Dorian it's the b3 and 6 (F-B notes in D). Sit at a piano and sing the notes before you play them. Get the sound into your head so playing it on a guitar will feel a lot more natural. Also a key difference between Dorian and minor is the IV chord is major with Dorian. Get used to hearing it.

Let this marinate with some Maker's Mark.

post 1690007223 09-13-2023, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
One thing I'm working on currently is playing all 7 modes over a drone track.

I'll loop a drone track in C for example then noodle with C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian, etc.

It helps me hear the flavours.
That's how Satriani teaches them. Some will insist on teaching C major, D Dorian, etc. and it will all sound like major starting on a different note.

My introduction was a Frank Gambale lesson in a guitar magazine which came with a "flexidisc." To get the sound of them into your head Frank used a I-IV-V progression and just changed the I to the tonic of the mode. So for D Dorian he'd pull the IV and V from C major — Dm F G. For E Phrygian Em F G, and so on.

post 1690007593 09-13-2023, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Dominik⏩
That's how Satriani teaches them. Some will insist on teaching C major, D Dorian, etc. and it will all sound like major starting on a different note.

My introduction was a Frank Gambale lesson in a guitar magazine which came with a "flexidisc." To get the sound of them into your head Frank used a I-IV-V progression and just changed the I to the tonic of the mode. So for D Dorian he'd pull the IV and V from C major — Dm F G. For E Phrygian Em F G, and so on.
Awesome! Thanks!

A (long) while back I used his Modes No More Mystery to try to get more comfortable with modal playing.

I think a big challenge comes from overcomplicating something that isn't all that complicated - at least in my case!
post 1690008403 09-13-2023, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Awesome! Thanks!

A (long) while back I used his Modes No More Mystery to try to get more comfortable with modal playing.

I think a big challenge comes from overcomplicating something that isn't all that complicated - at least in my case!
It shouldn't be complicated at all. As you know just like inversions of a chord you're simply inverting a scale and starting from a different note. People unnecessarily make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Some will sh*t the bed at the thought of having to learn "7 modes!!!" in 12 keys. Firstly no one uses Locrian — you can reduce that to a m7b5 arpeggio and simply use a major triad a half step up for its extensions. Now we're down to 6. Everyone knows major and minor. That leaves 4 to learn. For most people Dorian and Mixolydian would be the first of those 4 to learn and if you know pentatonic scales you're just filling in a couple of notes anyway. Then Lydian and lastly Phrygian.

I came up with my own way of doing it which is based on Lydian. In fact I see everything as Lydian or an alteration of it. Your C Major is my F Lydian. The same goes for melodic and harmonic minor scale modes. I later learned a well known jazz guy figured all this out in the 50s and influenced Coltrane and co. but I never read his book — I figured it out on my own. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you learn and apply this stuff just so long as you can hear it first and foremost.
post 1690009313 09-13-2023, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted By Dominik⏩
It shouldn't be complicated at all. As you know just like inversions of a chord you're simply inverting a scale and starting from a different note. People unnecessarily make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Some will sh*t the bed at the thought of having to learn "7 modes!!!" in 12 keys. Firstly no one uses Locrian — you can reduce that to a m7b5 arpeggio and simply use a major triad a half step up for its extensions. Now we're down to 6. Everyone knows major and minor. That leaves 4 to learn. For most people Dorian and Mixolydian would be the first of those 4 to learn and if you know pentatonic scales you're just filling in a couple of notes anyway. Then Lydian and lastly Phyrgian.

I came up with my own way of doing it which is based on Lydian. In fact I see everything as Lydian or an alteration of it. Your C Major is my F Lydian. The same goes for melodic and harmonic minor scale modes. I later learned a well known jazz guy figured all this out in the 50s and influenced Coltrane and co. but I never read his book — I figured it out on my own. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you learn and apply this stuff just so long as you can hear it first and foremost.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I realize now the time I spent in my early years on technical and mathematical proficiency would have been much better spent on training my ear and "musicality".

I literally did what Z4 cautioned against - tried to make scales sound like music.

I've seen some others maybe describing an approach similar to what you gleaned in your own:

https://www.guitarworld.com/lessons/...s-the-easy-way

Start with Lydian and change one note at a time.
post 1690009843 09-13-2023, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Hindsight is 20/20, but I realize now the time I spent in my early years on technical and mathematical proficiency would have been much better spent on training my ear and "musicality".

I literally did what Z4 cautioned against - tried to make scales sound like music.
It's never too late. The best part of training your ear is you can compose away from an instrument and quickly identify what is going on in music you're listening to.

Learning the fingerboard isn't that complicated either. One of the best things you can do is learn the notes up and down a string like you would playing a piano and then just see them all like six 1-2 octave keyboards offset. Pick a small group of notes, ideally singing them first, and move them diagonally practicing every 2-3 string combination. After a while it becomes automatic.
post 1690010563 09-13-2023, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted By Dominik⏩
It's never too late. The best part of training your ear is you can compose away from an instrument and quickly identify what is going on in music you're listening to.

Learning the fingerboard isn't that complicated either. One of the best things you can do is learn the notes up and down a string like you would playing a piano and then just see them all like six 1-2 octave keyboards offset. Pick a small group of notes, ideally singing them first, and move them diagonally practicing every 2-3 string combination. After a while it becomes automatic.
Thanks again! Great advice.

Now that I have time and tech has come so far, I just wanna record what's in my head.
post 1690011783 09-13-2023, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Thanks again! Great advice.

Now that I have time and tech has come so far, I just wanna record what's in my head.
Me too. I've lapsed into the habit of simply recording ideas on my phone and leaving them there.

The next step is to build a decent home studio. I've been toying with the idea of an old school SD card Zoom/Tascam multitrack but I think a better idea would be to buy one of those new Macbook Pros and use a Pro Tools or SSL controller so I can track everything that way, use soft synths and sound libraries, and produce some proper music first and foremost for myself and if anyone else likes it that's a bonus.
post 1690021603 09-13-2023, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted By Dominik⏩
Me too. I've lapsed into the habit of simply recording ideas on my phone and leaving them there.

The next step is to build a decent home studio. I've been toying with the idea of an old school SD card Zoom/Tascam multitrack but I think a better idea would be to buy one of those new Macbook Pros and use a Pro Tools or SSL controller so I can track everything that way, use soft synths and sound libraries, and produce some proper music first and foremost for myself and if anyone else likes it that's a bonus.
Hardware has become so much more affordable.

I have everything set up in a Linux environment using free, open source stuff (Ardour, Hydrogen, AVL drumkits).

I use a Focusrite Scarlett and a Captor X reactive load/IR loader.

Totally possibly to get (at least demo) quality recordings.

Guitars, amps, pedals, and mics don't count towards budget
post 1690046113 09-14-2023, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I've seen some others maybe describing an approach similar to what you gleaned in your own:
https://www.guitarworld.com/lessons/...s-the-easy-way

Start with Lydian and change one note at a time.
That's the start of it but it got pretty deep from there. When you consider the way theory is taught, it's all based on major, the key signatures, scale and chord formulas, etc. so going in that direction was easier for me back then because I was still pretty green, early teens, and I could go all in with it. Not so easy for someone more experienced and set in their ways.

The catalyst was trying to lay out a major scale in 5ths and hitting that ugly avoid note at the end, the 4th/11th which clashes with the 7th (tritone). Lydian formed a beautiful maj13#11 so away I went. So for me major is a mode of Lydian and not the other way around. I don't have to think about playing in Lydian. It's so internalized after all these years, it's more comfortable and natural than major to me.
post 1690063103 09-14-2023, 02:23 PM
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post 1690071413 09-14-2023, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
Wait so is the part with "....all of the lonely people" with that following violin descending line all dorian mode?
The verses have a Dorian melody and clearly outline the 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7 sound. You'll then hear 4-5-b6 creep in from natural minor.

10:30

post 1690097393 09-15-2023, 06:28 AM
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There's a local place that does open Mic nights 2x a month. I've always wanted to try one, however I'm not a singer, no thanks jeff.

Need some suggestions for a nice acoustic instrumental.

I used to do a nice cover of the Rain Song (Zep) that sounds fine without vocals. Need to relearn / freshen up that maybe.


Any other thoughts are appreciated.

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Woody's Quest for the Seven (journal):
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post 1690098203 09-15-2023, 06:54 AM
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#2729
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Originally Posted By Woody-5⏩
I've always wanted to try one, however I'm not a singer, no thanks jeff.
Mornin' Woody....

I hear you.
Confidence in singing has always been a hurdle for me.
Plus, I've never been a solo performer type anyway.
All my originals cater best to a full band. (to mask my lack of crooning skills)

Sorry I couldn't assist with some acoustic instrumental suggestions.

Do you have a website link with your efforts?
USMC: 1965-1969
Original music:
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https://soundcloud.com/chulaivet1966
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/chulaivet/videos

Just an old guy trying to keep up his rhythm chops.
"One persons perception of good music can be another persons definition of noise"
post 1690098443 09-15-2023, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted By Wayne
Mornin' Woody....

I hear you.
Confidence in singing has always been a hurdle for me.
Plus, I've never been a solo performer type anyway.
All my originals cater best to a full band. (to mask my lack of crooning skills)

Sorry I couldn't assist with some acoustic instrumental suggestions.

Do you have a website link with your efforts?
Oh i haven't made an attempt yet, just looking for some stuff that would be a decent instrumental to learn
PRs: Back Squat- 410x1 / Front Squat- 320x1/ Bench- 325x1 / Deadlift- 505x1

Woody's Quest for the Seven (journal):
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