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I passed the welfare office around 9:00 this morning... (Pic)๐ป
07-18-2016, 10:50 PM
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#181
07-18-2016, 10:52 PM
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#182
- donblaximus
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Originally Posted By BearTactics⏩
For clarification, what did I say that's wrong? The govt subsidizing part or the paying of the welfare part?You seem like a cool dude but you just are wrong about what you are saying. That's fine if you are happy paying for other people to abuse our country's system, but most working people do not feel the same way.
I choose to control what I can. I've been accused by my friend on focusing too much on the things I feel like I can control. I made a pact with them to try to learn about politics this year, that's why I'm trying to educate myself. Frankly, before a few months ago, politics never crossed my mind. The election, the policies, the debates all that stuff was noise to me and I just focused on the projects I had in front of me, my family, friends or whatever I enjoyed doing.
I'm trying to better understand the issues.
07-18-2016, 10:54 PM
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#183
Originally Posted By CHARBACK⏩
Republicans HATE birth control. But once that child is born, you better pull your weight regardless. LolMake it illegal to have a child without having the means to support the child. Make birth control free.
That will fix the problem in a couple generations.
That will fix the problem in a couple generations.
07-18-2016, 10:57 PM
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#184
- BearTactics
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Originally Posted By BigPoppaPumpin⏩
No the market would sort that out without help from outside forces. Do you think setting a minimum wage achieves this goal? Without a minimum wage the person demanding the labor can offer whatever price he chooses and create a surplus of laborers willing to do the job that he can choose from based on their skills/credentials whatever. Instead of the red line saying "minimum wage" pretend that was "offered wage". Now you can see that he has created a surplus in labor options without any interferance by the government. He also got higher quality workers for the same price that he would've gotten low skilled workers if the minimum wage was present.Your argument assumes all workers are created equal. They're not. Five competent workers are more productive for society than ten incompetent ones.
If the market inefficiency consists of incompetent workers, then society is better off.
If the market inefficiency consists of incompetent workers, then society is better off.
This is not theory. These are proven principles
Bald head scallywag
07-18-2016, 11:01 PM
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#185
Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
OP feels that welfare recipients are leaches. He thinks his taxes are supporting them when in reality he's paying pennies toward welfare programs and paying hundreds towards corporate welfare and military spending.For clarification, what did I say that's wrong? The govt subsidizing part or the paying of the welfare part?
I choose to control what I can. I've been accused by my friend on focusing too much on the things I feel like I can control. I made a pact with them to try to learn about politics this year, that's why I'm trying to educate myself. Frankly, before a few months ago, politics never crossed my mind. The election, the policies, the debates all that stuff was noise to me and I just focused on the projects I had in front of me, my family, friends or whatever I enjoyed doing.
I'm trying to better understand the issues.
I choose to control what I can. I've been accused by my friend on focusing too much on the things I feel like I can control. I made a pact with them to try to learn about politics this year, that's why I'm trying to educate myself. Frankly, before a few months ago, politics never crossed my mind. The election, the policies, the debates all that stuff was noise to me and I just focused on the projects I had in front of me, my family, friends or whatever I enjoyed doing.
I'm trying to better understand the issues.
He needs to understand that the number of freeloaders and abusers is a very small percentage of the people receiving assistance.
07-18-2016, 11:03 PM
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#186
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Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
Bro you can look up all kinds of data on welfare abuse and what it costs the taxpayers annually (estimate). I'm not going to do all the work for everyone all night. I'm about to go to bed. All this stuff is easy to understand, and maybe more people are cool with it then i thought. But we are all going to pay for it eventually.For clarification, what did I say that's wrong? The govt subsidizing part or the paying of the welfare part?
I choose to control what I can. I've been accused by my friend on focusing too much on the things I feel like I can control. I made a pact with them to try to learn about politics this year, that's why I'm trying to educate myself. Frankly, before a few months ago, politics never crossed my mind. The election, the policies, the debates all that stuff was noise to me and I just focused on the projects I had in front of me, my family, friends or whatever I enjoyed doing.
I'm trying to better understand the issues.
I choose to control what I can. I've been accused by my friend on focusing too much on the things I feel like I can control. I made a pact with them to try to learn about politics this year, that's why I'm trying to educate myself. Frankly, before a few months ago, politics never crossed my mind. The election, the policies, the debates all that stuff was noise to me and I just focused on the projects I had in front of me, my family, friends or whatever I enjoyed doing.
I'm trying to better understand the issues.
Bald head scallywag
07-18-2016, 11:14 PM
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#187
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Originally Posted By BearTactics⏩
Without minimum wage, the employer is motivated by profits, not by society's welfare. The employer will offer the lowest wage possible that can still produce an acceptable output. So we have a race to the bottom: employers getting more profits, workers getting paid less, and quality of service goes down.No the market would sort that out without help from outside forces. Do you think setting a minimum wage achieves this goal? Without a minimum wage the person demanding the labor can offer whatever price he chooses and create a surplus of laborers willing to do the job that he can choose from based on their skills/credentials whatever. Instead of the red line saying "minimum wage" pretend that was "offered wage". Now you can see that he has created a surplus in labor options without any interferance by the government. He also got higher quality workers for the same price that he would've gotten low skilled workers if the minimum wage was present.
This is not theory. These are proven principles
This is not theory. These are proven principles
The minimum wage rejiggers the values. Now the employer can't sacrifice quality for profits/low wages. Workers are happier because they get paid more. And the quality of services is higher because we have more qualified and happier workers.
The only party that suffers is the employer because it can no longer work employees to the bone for the bare minimum salary.
If you're on the side of the greater good for the greater number, this is a good move. If you're on the side of survival of the fittest / natural selection / may the best man win, this is not a good move.
Bish Don't Kill my Vibe
07-18-2016, 11:24 PM
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#188
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Originally Posted By BigPoppaPumpin⏩
I understand your line of reasoning and i appreciate the fact you are explaining it. However, the market will sort these things out. If quality/service is forfeited, consumers respond by doing business elsewhere. The consumer has the final say so, not the employer or employee. The business owner must deliver what the consumer demands. They must hire laborers that can do the job, and control other costs that go into bringing the product or service to market and still make money. More profits is not a bad thing. Id be happy to continue to talk about this stuff with you another time but the thread is mostly derailed now. I like your points though, ive seen you posting in other threads and you are obviously thinking critically which is rare around here.Without minimum wage, the employer is motivated by profits, not by society's welfare. The employer will offer the lowest wage possible that can still produce an acceptable output. So we have a race to the bottom: employers getting more profits, workers getting paid less, and quality of service goes down.
The minimum wage rejiggers the values. Now the employer can't sacrifice quality for profits/low wages. Workers are happier because they get paid more. And the quality of services is higher because we have more qualified and happier workers.
The only party that suffers is the employer because it can no longer work employees to the bone for the bare minimum salary.
If you're on the side of the greater good for the greater number, this is a good move. If you're on the side of survival of the fittest / natural selection / may the best man win, this is not a good move.
The minimum wage rejiggers the values. Now the employer can't sacrifice quality for profits/low wages. Workers are happier because they get paid more. And the quality of services is higher because we have more qualified and happier workers.
The only party that suffers is the employer because it can no longer work employees to the bone for the bare minimum salary.
If you're on the side of the greater good for the greater number, this is a good move. If you're on the side of survival of the fittest / natural selection / may the best man win, this is not a good move.
Bald head scallywag
07-18-2016, 11:42 PM
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#189
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Those people are driving better cars than me, and im driving around without ac in 100 degree weather to get to work.
Absolutely pissening.
These people probably have good looking junkie girlfriends too, and im over here wagecelling while they are living it up plowing their girlfriends and eating wic approved raisin bran crunch.
mad as fuk
Absolutely pissening.
These people probably have good looking junkie girlfriends too, and im over here wagecelling while they are living it up plowing their girlfriends and eating wic approved raisin bran crunch.
mad as fuk
No signature
07-19-2016, 05:48 AM
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#190
- donblaximus
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Originally Posted By BearTactics⏩
Understood and not looking for you to do the research for me. Isn't there abuse everywhere? You can also look up abuse in corporate power too? Abuse in power in political office?Bro you can look up all kinds of data on welfare abuse and what it costs the taxpayers annually (estimate). I'm not going to do all the work for everyone all night. I'm about to go to bed. All this stuff is easy to understand, and maybe more people are cool with it then i thought. But we are all going to pay for it eventually.
People are inherently greedy. Put in a position to take what they can, they will.
I don't let that bother me, i spend that time growing my businesses or interacting with my family.
I think we all agree that welfare is needed.
07-19-2016, 05:59 AM
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#191
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Some are ****gy time dole bludgers, some are victims of circumstance.
How about we end corporate welfare, large corporate tax breaks and close the loopholes and use the money to put these people to work?
How about we end corporate welfare, large corporate tax breaks and close the loopholes and use the money to put these people to work?
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07-19-2016, 09:06 AM
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#192
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
i know lots of atheists who are well off financially, this is just more retarded religious thinking 'derp youre gonna fail unless you bow down to our god!'This is what you get when the country turns away from it's roots... Christianity and White European culture.
We've imported third world immigrants who don't share EU culture, and the country has seen an increase in atheism.
Once upon a time in America, it used to be highly shameful and embarrassing for a Man to ask the gov for monetary assistance. Nowadays... even the rich businessmen are applying for tax breaks. Nobody wants to help the USA, everyone out to be greedy.
We've imported third world immigrants who don't share EU culture, and the country has seen an increase in atheism.
Once upon a time in America, it used to be highly shameful and embarrassing for a Man to ask the gov for monetary assistance. Nowadays... even the rich businessmen are applying for tax breaks. Nobody wants to help the USA, everyone out to be greedy.
A million miles away - I don't.. feel.... anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXGZu4yxjW0
07-19-2016, 09:50 AM
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#193
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Originally Posted By BaconBackBrah⏩
Age: 20Mirin' welfare crew brahs
I love socialism. All good things should be equally distributed. Not like anyone who's ever gotten rich deserves it or has done it by virtue of character. There needs to be a socialist system wherein each person works a 2-6 hour day and are awarded the exact same wages. Those who choose not to work are award with less of the overall funds but are still promised enough to live a decent life. There will also be less incentive to procreate because this system would discourage having more than 2 children a la china.
The only reason socialist societies have failed in the pass is because of US embargos. This ideal economy that I propose will never come to fruition because for the USA to maintain it's grip on resources it needs a strong military force and undiplomatic relationships with other countries to secure their resources. This country wouldn't be half as prosperous were it not for foreign labor and resources, this is what a lot of Trump supporters don't understand. Either this country stays partially socialist like it is, or go complete and totally socialist.
Either way wish I wasn't in university so I could go full rotter welfare mode.
I love socialism. All good things should be equally distributed. Not like anyone who's ever gotten rich deserves it or has done it by virtue of character. There needs to be a socialist system wherein each person works a 2-6 hour day and are awarded the exact same wages. Those who choose not to work are award with less of the overall funds but are still promised enough to live a decent life. There will also be less incentive to procreate because this system would discourage having more than 2 children a la china.
The only reason socialist societies have failed in the pass is because of US embargos. This ideal economy that I propose will never come to fruition because for the USA to maintain it's grip on resources it needs a strong military force and undiplomatic relationships with other countries to secure their resources. This country wouldn't be half as prosperous were it not for foreign labor and resources, this is what a lot of Trump supporters don't understand. Either this country stays partially socialist like it is, or go complete and totally socialist.
Either way wish I wasn't in university so I could go full rotter welfare mode.
Misc is always right
This whole thread is potato
07-19-2016, 09:53 AM
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#194
- Jammer02xd
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The system is definitely broken but there are some people who legitimately need the help and the amount of judging that people do is sad and ridiculous. I always link the below article when people start judging others for the **** situations that life has put them in. Something needs to be done to reform the system but taking it away from those that are TRYING to change their lives and crawl out of the ****hole that they are in is not the solution.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...p-food-stamps/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...p-food-stamps/
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07-19-2016, 10:00 AM
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#195
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fukken LMAO at miscers thinking they've invented the concept of laissez-faire capitalism.
07-19-2016, 10:36 AM
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#196
Originally Posted By Luc1fer⏩
I'll give you all one guess who this was, lmaoAh the welfare / single mother state
๐ฎ๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ถ, ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐
โโโโโโ๐งตMake trolls invisible: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=180234573 โโโโโโ
07-19-2016, 10:53 AM
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#197
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Originally Posted By Jammer02xd⏩
I think this is as well put as it can be in the most succinct manner possible. What I am finding when I venture into learning about politics is that people tend to get sucked way into the black or white side of things.The system is definitely broken but there are some people who legitimately need the help and the amount of judging that people do is sad and ridiculous. I always link the below article when people start judging others for the **** situations that life has put them in. Something needs to be done to reform the system but taking it away from those that are TRYING to change their lives and crawl out of the ****hole that they are in is not the solution.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...p-food-stamps/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...p-food-stamps/
07-19-2016, 10:56 AM
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#198
- ChalkyWhiteX
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There's a really nice joint next to that welfare office opie is talking about.
You guy's myron?
yeah you myron
You guy's myron?
yeah you myron
07-19-2016, 11:00 AM
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#199
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Originally Posted By BearTactics⏩
Shut the absolute fuk up. Pennies of your measly taxes go into welfare, most goes into military spending. I pay more in taxes than you likely make a year, it floors me when I see this level of unaware. There are good people in those lines, who are actively trying and who that program helps. Yes there are people taking advantage of it, but no perfect solution exist, or will ever exist.There was probably 100+ out there before the doors opened waiting to get in. I'm sure a couple thousand people rolled through there today. Everytime I look at my check and I see how much these people have stolen from me it infuriates me. We get no choice, the government robs it from us to give to them. They willingly go and support stealing from their fellow citizens. I look at these people in the same light as I look at thieves.
I give major props to that miscer who lost his job, and found something to get him by until he gets back on his feet rather than stoop to this level.
This chit is just out of hand. Almost 50% of Americans are recieving entitlements, all while having no less than 2 flat screens in their house and full cable channels. This country was not built by leeches, it was built by men with pride that did not fear work. What a bunch of fukin lowlifes
I give major props to that miscer who lost his job, and found something to get him by until he gets back on his feet rather than stoop to this level.
This chit is just out of hand. Almost 50% of Americans are recieving entitlements, all while having no less than 2 flat screens in their house and full cable channels. This country was not built by leeches, it was built by men with pride that did not fear work. What a bunch of fukin lowlifes
"all while having no less than 2 flat screens". I have no doubt there is a statistical survey you can cite correct? And that you didn't just fabricate that comment making an ignorant generalization?
Originally Posted By dbluevette⏩
No it doesn't. It means 20 of those hours are in taxes for the government to use for funding any number of programs most of which is the military.I'm just glad I could help them out. I'm working 70 hours this week. That means 20 hours out of those 70 hours are for them. And I don't even get a thank you card.
Belief without evidence is a fools game.
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07-19-2016, 11:01 AM
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#200
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It always blows my mind how people on welfare always so fuking fat.
They literally have nothing to do all day, and they can't find 30 minutes to exercise.....
Literal human garbage.
They literally have nothing to do all day, and they can't find 30 minutes to exercise.....
Literal human garbage.
07-19-2016, 11:04 AM
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#201
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Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
Thank you. repped for understanding!I think this is as well put as it can be in the most succinct manner possible. What I am finding when I venture into learning about politics is that people tend to get sucked way into the black or white side of things.
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07-19-2016, 11:08 AM
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#202
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das da lyfe brah
07-19-2016, 11:10 AM
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#203
- Uncle-Phil
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Originally Posted By BoneSkinny⏩
Noticed this too.It always blows my mind how people on welfare always so fuking fat.
They literally have nothing to do all day, and they can't find 30 minutes to exercise.....
Literal human garbage.
They literally have nothing to do all day, and they can't find 30 minutes to exercise.....
Literal human garbage.
They have tons of kids, nicer phones than me and the latest jordan sneakers whi are expensive as fuk.
It's not poverty, its a mentality/culture issue. And the typical people will defend it because it's all they know. Poor souls dont know any better since the democrats love to make slaves out of them which keeps them in power.
Navy vet brah 02-11
07-19-2016, 11:15 AM
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#204
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Originally Posted By BearTactics⏩
The thing is, your example happens in a vacuum.It has nothing to do with inflation. I didn't want to do this, but i will
this is a supply demand curve. You can see that the supply curve goes from bottom left to top right and the demand curve goes from top left to bottom right. You should be able to look at these two lines and see that the supply curve increases as price goes up, and the demand curve decreases as the price goes up. More people are willing to supply the market (in this case with labor) as prices go up, but the demand for it (in this case labor) goes down as prices rise. Where the supply meet the demand is called the equilibrium price. In the free market, with no interferance, an the supply and demand of a product/service (in this case labor) will happen. Now you can see when you introduce a "min wage" it sets an artificial "price floor". You can see that on the graph as well. Even though someone is willing to supply labor at a cheaper cost, it is not legal to do so. For this reason, there is a higher supply than the market needs (bc they are getting paid more than the job is inherently worth) and there is a shortage of demand for the job (bc no one wants to over pay) The triangle above where the suppply curve and demand curve meet (equilibrium) is market inefficencty. It shows that all parties lose because less people are working and more people want to. The graph shows that without minimum wage 10 people would be working. With minimum wage 8 people are working and 12 want to be working. At equilibrium 10 people are working and 10 people want to work (at that rate); the market is effecient at that point
Now I don't understand why we can't do away with minimum wage and just subsidize what people can not earn at their jobs. Id rather pay 25% of what people cant earn out of government funds, then support them completely and not have them work at all.
this is a supply demand curve. You can see that the supply curve goes from bottom left to top right and the demand curve goes from top left to bottom right. You should be able to look at these two lines and see that the supply curve increases as price goes up, and the demand curve decreases as the price goes up. More people are willing to supply the market (in this case with labor) as prices go up, but the demand for it (in this case labor) goes down as prices rise. Where the supply meet the demand is called the equilibrium price. In the free market, with no interferance, an the supply and demand of a product/service (in this case labor) will happen. Now you can see when you introduce a "min wage" it sets an artificial "price floor". You can see that on the graph as well. Even though someone is willing to supply labor at a cheaper cost, it is not legal to do so. For this reason, there is a higher supply than the market needs (bc they are getting paid more than the job is inherently worth) and there is a shortage of demand for the job (bc no one wants to over pay) The triangle above where the suppply curve and demand curve meet (equilibrium) is market inefficencty. It shows that all parties lose because less people are working and more people want to. The graph shows that without minimum wage 10 people would be working. With minimum wage 8 people are working and 12 want to be working. At equilibrium 10 people are working and 10 people want to work (at that rate); the market is effecient at that point
Now I don't understand why we can't do away with minimum wage and just subsidize what people can not earn at their jobs. Id rather pay 25% of what people cant earn out of government funds, then support them completely and not have them work at all.
Let's say that we remove a minimum wage, and that companies begin firing people they believe "cost too much." Then let's say that they begin hiring people at a lesser rate. What about the people who were fired? Won't they now have to compete for the same job at a lesser rate? And wouldn't that be wholly inefficient considering that we would then have to subsidize them? I feel as though that sounds almost just as inefficient as welfare programs that are not actively helping people achieve jobs that allow them to support themselves.
If we're looking to solve the problem shouldn't we be subsidizing opportunities that allow them to create more value for themselves as opposed to creating a system that at the worst creates a perpetual cycle, and at the best, allows them to bide time and tread water?
IMO, I think that we could subsidize basic needs and allow for luxuries to come at a cost. I'm already paying for welfare which allows people to have those basic needs. I wouldn't mind, if instead, we were all provided a subsidy to cover food or something similar. And the motivating factor to work in a scenario like that would then be to provide luxuries like having a car--having better food, or even having a nice home. I think that'd be fair.
But then again, I'm not an economist, and I haven't studied the economy, so I dunno.
07-19-2016, 11:26 AM
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#205
- triglyceride
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- Join Date: Sep 2007
- Location: United States Virgin Islands
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how dooes I get welfare?
07-19-2016, 11:32 AM
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#206
- midcoastking33
- Registered User
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- midcoastking33
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lol at op's stockholm syndrome
07-19-2016, 11:33 AM
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#207
- velvetmudhole
- Join Date: 1969
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- velvetmudhole
- Join Date: 1969
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damn, op. Looks like no one left you a good parking spot
I fap to your avi
I cry during sad movies crew
I love my family crew
STL crew
Sniffs screwdriver handles crew
07-19-2016, 11:38 AM
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#208
- donblaximus
- Registered User
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- donblaximus
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- Age: 50
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When I was in my 20's I travelled the world and built networks and enterprise systems for the DOD. All branches from all parts of the globe. The one thing I saw in common was that there was a ton of waste. People sitting around all day for week on end doing very little. Budget cycles coming to an end so the rush to "spend the budget" on frivolous items else they would get cut next quarter. E5 soldiers doing basic email and web browsing with 2 40" flat screens on their desk as a result of said budget spends. Xboxs connected to these screens....you get the idea. This was 15 years ago so you can imagine how much 2x40" panels were back then.
Then there was the enterprise systems they purchased to run their applications. Lets just say they bought a Rolls Royce to get to the super market. I told them it was waaay over provisioned (because thats how I run my business) but they told me they didnt care, they wanted the best. So we installed some crazy high powered systems to basically run email.
My point is, there is waste in all aspects of government spending. Lets look to clean it up as much as we can. Technology is to a point where it can help out tremendously, the pivotal fact really is the people and the process.
People get so concerned feeling like "those people" are stealing from my paycheck because they are lazy. Well guess what, a lot of different people are "stealing from you", and they are not just the "fat people wearing jordans that have nice cell phones" that are.
Knowing that, I choose to control what I can control, which is my financial health and my family's security on a micro level.
Then there was the enterprise systems they purchased to run their applications. Lets just say they bought a Rolls Royce to get to the super market. I told them it was waaay over provisioned (because thats how I run my business) but they told me they didnt care, they wanted the best. So we installed some crazy high powered systems to basically run email.
My point is, there is waste in all aspects of government spending. Lets look to clean it up as much as we can. Technology is to a point where it can help out tremendously, the pivotal fact really is the people and the process.
People get so concerned feeling like "those people" are stealing from my paycheck because they are lazy. Well guess what, a lot of different people are "stealing from you", and they are not just the "fat people wearing jordans that have nice cell phones" that are.
Knowing that, I choose to control what I can control, which is my financial health and my family's security on a micro level.
07-19-2016, 11:47 AM
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#209
- knightofday
- Registered User
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- knightofday
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- Location: California, United States
- Age: 39
- Posts: 14,588
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Originally Posted By gharamlifter⏩
THIS THIS THIS!! I hate welfare leeches as much as the next guy, but the big shots are ROBBING US BLIND on a level that puts the individual welfare recipients to shame. Makes me rage thinking about how much is syphoned out of us.used to get pissed off at losers who get welfare but don't need it...
...but they're taking peanuts compared to what the financial elite are stealing from the common people through their buddies in office.
how much of your hard-earned money has gone to the military industry for example?
and what about the all the government officials with unnecessarily lavish salaries and benefits? you mad about michelle obama's ski trips too?
ranting about people on welfare is as dumb as ranting about mice in your home when you have a fukking mobster ransacking your place before your eyes...
...but they're taking peanuts compared to what the financial elite are stealing from the common people through their buddies in office.
how much of your hard-earned money has gone to the military industry for example?
and what about the all the government officials with unnecessarily lavish salaries and benefits? you mad about michelle obama's ski trips too?
ranting about people on welfare is as dumb as ranting about mice in your home when you have a fukking mobster ransacking your place before your eyes...
07-19-2016, 12:09 PM
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#210
- dp51134
- Registered User
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- dp51134
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- Join Date: Jul 2013
- Location: United States
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Damn immigrants take all these American jobs, welfare is on a rise. Take back your america op. Make murica great again
**Would trade a couple inches off my dink to have bigger calves crew**
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