Where does the food to sustain these cattle and other animals come from?

What do you think is more consuming of land, energy, and natural resources to sustain, a 180 lbs human or a 1500 lbs cow?

First off you do realize that you can't just remove the cows and directly feed these monocrops to human beings right? And you also aren't growing the multiude of plants needed for your substandard diet in that area year round. They're monocrops for a reason, they're easy to plant. Easy to repeatedly grow and cattle digest this better than we ever could.

Also nice job of completely ignoring my whole bit about the ocean being our biggest food source. You sure as **** arent fishing out sea weed to feed 60% of our population that will magically lose their food source because of your stupidity.

Yes, that's because monocropping depletes the soil of nutrients and leaves it weak and unable to support healthy plant growth. Farmers counteract this by using fertilizer to encourage plant growth, which further damages the natural makeup of the soil and leads to further nutrient depletion.

Yep, so instead of encouraging people to transition to a vegan diet and allow the world's oceans to recover from the last 50 years of overfishing, we should just keep exploiting the ocean until its ecosystem is completely destroyed and there's not enough fish left to feed the earth's burgeoning human population.

Drinking milk and eating eggs is still harmful to animals...

The conditions they are in is appalling is most dairy/poultry farms. I haven't sourced a farm for milk yet that has the cows in good conditions, but I get my eggs locally from a farm in which I have personally seen the conditions in which the chickens live and lay.

people saying getting protein as a vegan/vegetarian is hard dont know what they are talking about. its not at all.

people talking about micro defeciencies, with the exception of b12, the others really arent problems.

as someone who is vegan majority of the time but I make exceptions for dairy on occasion and fish (if i do some social event i dont want to just eat a leaf of lettuce so ill get a pizza or a salmon or something otherwise everything is no animal product with exception of whey and eggs)

1) if you decide to eliminate meat, tons of great meat replacements, protein powders, etc. however, avoid seitan and products that use "wheat protein isolate" as the protein source its just gluten. gluten is an awful source of protein, simlair to collagen and gelatin. and say what you want about gluten, but if you were to eat a lot of the gluten products in those quantaties, it will likely not be good for your stomach health. a good amt of meat replacementsw use gluten, its a good binder giving it texture and its dirt cheap. again avoid it.

2) majority of the dairy replacement products such as almond milk and what not are complete crap. fortified with d2 not even d3, and just awful forms of the synthetic cheap vits and minerals but they advertise the product like its whats naturally occuring. Second to this, you are essentially buying flavored water. For instance with almond milk, avg almond milk product has like 3g of fat. A serving of almonds is like 12g of fat give or take. When you buy the typical almond milk you are getting 1 almond per serving practically and buying water. Find almond milk with a high fat content (mine called "malk" for instance has like 11g of fat per serving) and same with other "milk" products.

3) if someone insists on eating meat of some sort, eat fish. although fish is environmentally destrcutive, you can use the app seafood watch to find properly sourced fish and you can find places that sell them. whole foods recently partnered with them as well. also fish "feel" pain (nociception) but do not have an emotional response like we do or other animals do its not the same. I dont eat fish but once in a blue moon as I said but im not against eating it at all with the exception of the environmental side of it.

also as someone said last page, you can be against factory farming and cruelty to animals but still be fine with the act of eating meat. if someone goes and hunts a deer and its eat fine i dont care. the problem is not the act of eating meat it self (vegans disagree with me here but whatever) its how we go about getting it that is not right.

it is complete hypocrisy to feel outraged when you see a dog with a cut on its face wanting the dog to receive some sort of justice for its abuse but to turn the blind eye to a cow. its also hypocritical for people to be upset at asian cultures for using dogs and cats for its fur or eating them or whatever but to again still turn the blind eye to the cow the chicken the pig etc. logically there is no argument to defend factory farming what so ever.

anyone who wants tips on how to ease your way into it or what products are good etc feel free to ask me


also do not claim to be an animal lover if you have no problem with factory farming and what not. you are a dog/cat/hamster whatever lover not an animal lover. this is something i realized was hypocritical about myself. i volunteer at SPCA frequently and id feel awful for a cow there or a horse or whatever but would go eat a burger right after ignoring the fact of the abuse id just see of the same animal and claiming to be an animal lover.

I am sorry if i came up as a self righteous person (i really am not)

But please if you really love animals why cant you search eco and animal friendly farms where animale arent treated like garbage? Why cant you try to eat less animal products in favor of their vegan substitute?

I was once like you guys and thought vegans were ultra sensitive people that only liked to complain but as i researched all the horrific stuff that happens all the time in these "farms" i realized they were not actually wrong in believing what they believe


Sorry on mobile, this is a response to lightsarefallin

You mean kill billions of starvation trying to force your unrealistic first world eating disorder on them. You've been fed so much vegan propaganda that you are completely clueless as to how impossible and unrealistic it is.

Or not go vegan and just change how we fish and fish sustainably:
https://youtu.be/_jaWs87t5UM

You cannot feed the world on the vegan diet. Impossible.

Huh...so this thread is still going.Repped for making educated choices.

Book by a former vegan with a change of heart:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003PJ7JXY...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

From review of book:

Here's what was interesting:

1 - The need to admit that agriculture itself is screwed up and unsustainable (whether veg based or meat based)

2 - The reality that grains are a pretty bogus basis for a diet.

3 - The bitter truth that our planet can't support us, period (veg or non-veg)

4 - The potential problems with fat soluble vitamins

boggles my mind why some people can have so much hate for people trying to lessen their impact on animals

You mean that eating disorder that causes people to live longer, healthier lives due to lowering the risk of chronic disease? Not to mention reducing environmental damage and greenhouses gas emissions?

Also

Because the majority of vegans, especially as seen itt are a bunch of self righteous, annoying individuals who think anyone is going to listen to them with their approach. Do you really think addressing someone to change their lifestyle in that manner is going to be well received? Absolutely not. If anything, it has the opposite affect.

And when this thread fizzles out, people are still going to eat their steak and their non meat products. *shrug*

the thread was started by a meat eater. meat people love to talk about vegans forcing their views on people, but so many times it's meat people attacking vegans unprovoked.

I'm not addressing anyone in the hope of getting them to change their diet, I am merely challenging their ignorance and stupidity. It wouldn't bother me if they continued eating meat and died of colorectal cancer (which is strongly associated with red meat consumption).

And just remember that if you get diagnosed with breast cancer one day, you could have prevented it by eliminating steak from your diet.

And you said "YOU don't see why" and I answered.

There was also another thread started by a vegan who was "bored" of his vegan choices and it went the same. Way. With the SAME vegans talking about "flesh" (like dude, calling it "flesh" instead of meat doesn't change anything) and throwing out vitriol. It's typical. Its BEYOND typical because like PETA, the approach is a turn off.

Those who drop knowledge, that's appreciated and noted. But those who come with cannons blazing, foaming at the mouth, nope. Not hearing you.

I know some of you don't eat honey but the parable about more flies with honey than vinegar still applies.

O.p had questions. Some answere

it doesnt matter to me honestly, the world isnt going to stop eating meat. its a personal choice, i would never hurt an animal so i stopped eating them. im just as healthy as i've always been.

I'm going to address you with your original, preedited post...not sure what's with the constant edits but ok.

The above is exactly why we won't listen to people like you.

Also, there is also hereditary component with breast cancer and studies are showing that even MEN can pass on those genes to their offspring. Even men can get breast cancer .

But yeah, you've crumbled any part of me listening to your vegan rhetoric with the hateful things you've spewed. Great work!

Yes, it is dumb AF to dress up your pet. I also consider it cruel and useless. What's your point? Let's continue to slay and eat sick animals? Listen, I would be the first to kill a turkey if my life depended on it. I do not consider myself vegan, WFPB. But there comes a point where enough is enough on factory farming, it is pathetic and useless considering we don't even need it to survive.

Pretty much. I'd sooner listen to someone who has this view and also shows WHY than someone attacking someone, sayinh they'd "prefer" if someone got cancer from eating meat and the like. Those people are scum and expect to be listened to. Sad

Of course there's a hereditary component to cancer. I'm not questioning that. But there's a strong correlation between red meat consumption and various forms of cancer, including breast cancer. So when you nonchalantly say you're going to eat your steak, you just make yourself look like an imbecile. Why do you want to dramatically increase your chances of getting breast cancer? Why are you so unwilling to accept reality? Do you also think that smoking tobacco cigarettes doesn't contribute to lung cancer?

batspoof reminds me of that psycho Vegan Gains.. I wonder if the b12 deficiency of a vegan's diet and sociopathy is correlation or causation.

I was thinking of messaging vegan gains on ******** and asking him to start a thread on here. That would be the most epic misc thread ever.

Brah, I agree, but I'd rather not accelerate the process.

You've showed how hateful you are and I have nothing to say to you. I'll gladly accept other information from the other vegans itt though. Bye

This wasting water fact always bugs me.

Correct me if I'm wrong - Earth is a closed system meaning everything that has been on earth since the beginning is still here and always will be. So when we are using all this water to feed the animals it will eventually return back into the earth through whatever means.

how is population increase a closed system. earth is expanding in regards to populations animals/humans, creating more demand for a static resource aka water.

sorry boyo, neither are sustainable. yes meat requires more resources and i'm not arguing that at all.... butboth are resource heavy to feed the world. link:http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/660S.fullit's okay to accept that everyone's tour is over eventually

Every study that claims vegans live longer either uses vegetarians as the example or deducts points for the consumption of cholesterol and saturated fat, both now known to be harmless or has flawed as methodology of collecting data. You will not live longer as a vegan, period.

As for a 1lb of water usage and wheat, you eat a pound of wheat every day and tell me how healthy you are.

Btw, Truth or Drought is a website that promotes veganism. If you want, i can pull up much lesser water usage numbers.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/actually...net-1419030738

441 gallons of water per pound of beef. That barely puts it above rice.