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Forum ยป Feel The Johnson: Gary Johnson just 2 points from debates!
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Thread: Feel The Johnson: Gary Johnson just 2 points from debates!

post 1455327993 07-30-2016, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted By whitepaper⏩
I'm not one to be a one-issue voter, unless it's incredibly significant, but Johnson is a fuking moron.

His support, and plan, to increase private prisons is so inherently, morally, and logically wrong, that I cannot trust anything else that comes out of his mind.
Source? You realize privatization of prisons happened a long time ago right? I agree it's not an idea on paper I'd agree with either, but I need to see details, like the "but dem open borders mate!" from those who have not actually examined the full plan. For example, he feels the reason the prisons are bursting with people is due to the failed "war on drugs" which he'd end if we could, and he's right. So, look at the big picture and don't allow hyperbole to guide you.
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post 1455718473 08-02-2016, 07:25 AM
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You wanna see what your alternatives to the two party train wreck you have been offered sounds like? Here's your chance. If this bumps them up by just a few points in the polls, they will be in the debates. It would be nice to have a grown up in the room at the debates no? Make it happen.

CNN is set to host a primetime one-hour town hall with the Libertarian Party ticket, former Govs. Gary Johnson and William Weld, on Wednesday in New York City.The candidates will take questions from the audience and from CNN's Anderson Cooper, who will moderate the event, focusing on the current state of the 2016 race and the platform of the Libertarian Party.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politi...-william-weld/
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post 1455881343 08-03-2016, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted By PrivilegeCheker⏩
But who will pay for rhese free ponies?
Clearly the ponies will pay for themselves in the long run. But if not, I'm sure some generous corporation will pony up the cash. Monsanto and PETA joining forces, perhaps?
post 1455883473 08-03-2016, 06:57 AM
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This is some of the more high profile people who are in the "Can't vote for Trump or HC" camp, but the number of voters in both parties that feel that way is huge. We can postulate as you motivations here specific to politicians that will not back Trump, but I think some simply genuinely convinced he's not fit for POTUS. If a group of powerful GOP types took the step to openly support GJ, it would be quite the game changer. I wonder if any Dem types would do same? They seem more willing to hold nose and support HC even though her approval ratings in her own part very low. I do think if GJ gets in the debates, and people feel he's a viable candidate, he will take a large portion of Bernie voters who have no interest HC.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush who along with a few other 2016 GOP presidential candidates still refuses to support Donald Trump said he still cant vote for either Mr. Trump or likely Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

I cant vote for Hillary Clinton and I cant vote for Donald Trump, and it breaks my heart, Mr. Bush said in an interview that aired on MSNBC Monday evening. This is my the first time in my adult life Im confronted with this dilemma.

A lot of the governors, I would have been very comfortable with, Mr. Bush said. John Kasich I thought ran a great campaign, and [Marco] Rubio, [Ted] Cruz. There are a lot of people. The bars not that high for me. Im not suggesting that you have to be a perfect candidate.

Mr. Bush was one of the more aggressive critics of Mr. Trump during the 2016 GOP presidential primary race, but he dropped out of the race after a disappointing finish in South Carolina.

This is a decision thats painful for me, he said. I love my country like everybody else does, and I see us languishing at a time when we should just be leading the world.

Mr. Bush said if Mr. Trump loses in a landslide, hell feel sad, and if he wins, hell be worried.

Source:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...hillary-clint/
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post 1455885903 08-03-2016, 07:20 AM
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I don't know why so many people are mind blown at why Trump wants to remove illegal Mexicans from this country. My parents went through an almost 20 year legal process with thousands of dollars of lawyer fees in order to become US citizens and my father was/is a doctor all these years. Then some mexican crosses the border and boom he should be given all access to all of our civil liberties? I don't get it. Trump is right, look at Florida sometimes you can't even get a job in Miami if you don't speak Spanish. What kind of BS is that?
post 1455889173 08-03-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted By Cytomegalovirus⏩
I don't know why so many people are mind blown at why Trump wants to remove illegal Mexicans from this country. My parents went through an almost 20 year legal process with thousands of dollars of lawyer fees in order to become US citizens and my father was/is a doctor all these years. Then some mexican crosses the border and boom he should be given all access to all of our civil liberties? I don't get it. Trump is right, look at Florida sometimes you can't even get a job in Miami if you don't speak Spanish. What kind of BS is that?
You realize illegal immigration via Mexico has declined in the last decade to net zero and even negative some years?

http://time.com/4167626/donald-trump...s-immigration/

People are being played like sheep with scare stories of Mexican hords and all that because they know people (you?) are too lazy to actually take two minutes to fact check.

We absolutely do need a more logical immigration policy and GJ has more real world experience dealing with it as a two time GOP gov of border state than Dump or HC combined. Illegal immigrants are an issue, but far from the most pressing or even top 10 for the US but Trump and the ilk know getting lemmings fired up on simple messages - always fear based - is taken from an old play book and works well. South Park ahead of it's time. Don't be these people:


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post 1455896853 08-03-2016, 08:45 AM
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GJ with over 1 mil in FB likes. He is gaining some action!
post 1455897193 08-03-2016, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
You realize illegal immigration via Mexico has declined in the last decade to net zero and even negative some years?

http://time.com/4167626/donald-trump...s-immigration/

People are being played like sheep with scare stories of Mexican hords and all that because they know people (you?) are too lazy to actually take two minutes to fact check.
If you put a cool million in our bank account, wifey and I would be reverse immigrating to Mexico.
post 1455898663 08-03-2016, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted By JimFromRaleigh1⏩
GJ with over 1 mil in FB likes. He is gaining some action!
Here's new polling data that included third party and some of the findings are, per the election cycle in general, not what one might expect. In particular this one:

"Hillary Clinton is thumping Gary Johnson among conservatives. The CNN/ORC poll is brutal on this score, with Clinton nabbing 21 percent of cons versus just 8 percent for Johnson. She also ekes out narrower victories among Republicans in both CNN/ORC and CBS News.So even though the Libertarian ticket is made up of two former Republican governors, even though Republicans (or former Republicans) have formed the bulk of Johnson's endorsements to date, and even though yesterday saw the announcement of a new group called Republicans for Johnson-Weld, the Libertarians are having a hard time sealing the deal with disaffected members of the Party of Trump. Meanwhile, Johnson remains competitive for the affections of Bernie Sanders voters."

How could anyone vote for HC, no matter how much they dislike Trump and consider themselves conservatives? That they would vote for HC over Trump or GJ is bizarre to me. If I understand this article correctly, it appears GJ pulling mostly from would be HC voters.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/03/ga...ary-bounce-sti
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post 1455898763 08-03-2016, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted By Retoaded⏩
If you put a cool million in our bank account, wifey and I would be reverse immigrating to Mexico.
Check is in the mail brah.
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post 1455898843 08-03-2016, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
Check is in the mail brah.
house shopping in Isla Mujeres as we speak.
post 1456049613 08-04-2016, 06:59 AM
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Anyone watch the town hall on CNN? I didn't think he did a great job of it. He does not seem to come well prepared. He didn't adequately answer Qs asked, some of which were easy soft picthes, some he could have used to make it clear the difference between he and the others. Weld did well and is a solid speaker and debater. GJ will have to bring something far better if he made the debates as Trump and HC will eat him alive and share his corpse on stage. His response to the assault weapon Q was a non answer. Not a great showing that, but being a gold throated speaker is never been his strong point and he does not respond in one liners as typical politicians do that are often wildly inaccurate or just BS.
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post 1456051363 08-04-2016, 07:15 AM
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I was legit, kind of excited about this guy getting a solid spot. Then I read his military reform plan. Dude wants to decrease military spending by 43%.

We've been chopped to pieces with all the budget cuts, and dropping by that much would utterly destroy this country's defenses.
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post 1456051843 08-04-2016, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
You realize illegal immigration via Mexico has declined in the last decade to net zero and even negative some years?

http://time.com/4167626/donald-trump...s-immigration/

People are being played like sheep with scare stories of Mexican hords and all that because they know people (you?) are too lazy to actually take two minutes to fact check.

We absolutely do need a more logical immigration policy and GJ has more real world experience dealing with it as a two time GOP gov of border state than Dump or HC combined. Illegal immigrants are an issue, but far from the most pressing or even top 10 for the US but Trump and the ilk know getting lemmings fired up on simple messages - always fear based - is taken from an old play book and works well. South Park ahead of it's time. Don't be these people:


Wat. Fact check your own source:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...on-in-the-u-s/

Illegal immigration via Mexico hasn't declined in the last decade. You can clearly see 2004 had a figure of ~10.1 million and 2014 had ~11.3 million. Illegal immigration peaked in 2007 and has declined from the peak, but has pretty much stabilized after ~2009 and returned to the level before 2007.

"Illegal immigration via Mexico has declined in the last decade to net zero and even negative some years?"

How is negative illegal immigration a possibility? Are you suggesting more Americans immigrated illegally to Mexico, than Mexicans to America? Or are you trying to compare illegal immigrants to legal immigrants? No matter the comparison, there are still millions of illegal immigrants. They are all criminals, and in the USA if you commit a crime you are arrested and punished accordingly. That is how justice works; it doesn't matter the crime or the magnitude of it. If there were 11 million petty thieves running around, we'd still want them all arrested.

Illegal immigrants from Meixco sent back $25 billion in remittances in 2014. For scale, that's Mexico's 4th largest export, beating out oil which was at $22.8 billion in 2015.That's an enormous amount of money removed from the USA, no less from a group of people who don't even pay taxes. What would be the top 10 issues being addressed that overtake illegal immigration?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ost-u-s-money/
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post 1456054013 08-04-2016, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted By Cytomegalovirus⏩
I don't know why so many people are mind blown at why Trump wants to remove illegal Mexicans from this country. My parents went through an almost 20 year legal process with thousands of dollars of lawyer fees in order to become US citizens and my father was/is a doctor all these years. Then some mexican crosses the border and boom he should be given all access to all of our civil liberties? I don't get it. Trump is right, look at Florida sometimes you can't even get a job in Miami if you don't speak Spanish. What kind of BS is that?
The GoP's God King Reagan did it too. So this isn't new to politics.
post 1456054573 08-04-2016, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
Here's new polling data that included third party and some of the findings are, per the election cycle in general, not what one might expect. In particular this one:

"Hillary Clinton is thumping Gary Johnson among conservatives. The CNN/ORC poll is brutal on this score, with Clinton nabbing 21 percent of cons versus just 8 percent for Johnson. She also ekes out narrower victories among Republicans in both CNN/ORC and CBS News.So even though the Libertarian ticket is made up of two former Republican governors, even though Republicans (or former Republicans) have formed the bulk of Johnson's endorsements to date, and even though yesterday saw the announcement of a new group called Republicans for Johnson-Weld, the Libertarians are having a hard time sealing the deal with disaffected members of the Party of Trump. Meanwhile, Johnson remains competitive for the affections of Bernie Sanders voters."

How could anyone vote for HC, no matter how much they dislike Trump and consider themselves conservatives? That they would vote for HC over Trump or GJ is bizarre to me. If I understand this article correctly, it appears GJ pulling mostly from would be HC voters.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/03/ga...ary-bounce-sti
He needs to get the allotted support so that he can participate in the debates. Once he does that his appeal will grow....and it wouldn't be because of his policies it would simply be because he's not Trump or Hillary.
post 1456057693 08-04-2016, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted By Jayl12345⏩
I was legit, kind of excited about this guy getting a solid spot. Then I read his military reform plan. Dude wants to decrease military spending by 43%.

We've been chopped to pieces with all the budget cuts, and dropping by that much would utterly destroy this country's defenses.
On the surface I understand why you would say that. However, let's dig deep into what his plan would actually do.,

GJ is a nationalist and wants out out of all the butt**** places around the world. That means out of Iraq/Afghanistan/Kuwait and all the other unnecessary military posts posts around the globe, including Germany.
post 1456060373 08-04-2016, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted By SomedayIllBeMe⏩
Wat. Fact check your own source:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...on-in-the-u-s/
Did you check yours? Very first sentence: "The number of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. has stabilized in recent years after decades of rapid growth."

Net zero = stabilized.
Originally Posted By SomedayIllBeMe⏩
Illegal immigration via Mexico hasn't declined in the last decade. You can clearly see 2004 had a figure of ~10.1 million and 2014 had ~11.3 million. Illegal immigration peaked in 2007 and has declined from the peak, but has pretty much stabilized after ~2009 and returned to the level before 2007.

"Illegal immigration via Mexico has declined in the last decade to net zero and even negative some years?"

How is negative illegal immigration a possibility?
More going back than coming in. When the US economy was at it's worst, there was actually more going back than coming in for a short time, and stabilized for approx a decade.
Originally Posted By SomedayIllBeMe⏩
Are you suggesting more Americans immigrated illegally to Mexico, than Mexicans to America? Or are you trying to compare illegal immigrants to legal immigrants? No matter the comparison, there are still millions of illegal immigrants. They are all criminals, and in the USA if you commit a crime you are arrested and punished accordingly. That is how justice works; it doesn't matter the crime or the magnitude of it. If there were 11 million petty thieves running around, we'd still want them all arrested.

Illegal immigrants from Meixco sent back $25 billion in remittances in 2014. For scale, that's Mexico's 4th largest export, beating out oil which was at $22.8 billion in 2015.That's an enormous amount of money removed from the USA, no less from a group of people who don't even pay taxes. What would be the top 10 issues being addressed that overtake illegal immigration?
And how many billions stay in the US if you give work visas? How many billions saved not trying to stop everyone, but focusing on the real criminal elements? I like GJ approaches and opinions on that issue than "lets build a giant wall derpa derp" nonsense and GJ has more real world experience dealing with border than Trump or HC combined. I'm not for open borders by any means, but it's like the war on drugs, realistic approaches vs BS is what's needed. Johnson on border topic:

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post 1456060853 08-04-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By Maestro⏩
He needs to get the allotted support so that he can participate in the debates. Once he does that his appeal will grow....and it wouldn't be because of his policies it would simply be because he's not Trump or Hillary.
He needs to hit 15% in the polls, and he already has in some states. We will see it last nights CNN thing helps add a few % to make it a lock.
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post 1456062603 08-04-2016, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted By Maestro⏩
He needs to get the allotted support so that he can participate in the debates. Once he does that his appeal will grow....and it wouldn't be because of his policies it would simply be because he's not Trump or Hillary.
Gotta polish up those debate skills beforehand, though. He's definitely got the substance advantage but he needs to give more simple explanations with less nuance to get across on the national stage unfortunately. Those with a Libertarian background will get what he's saying but sometimes Libertarian ideals are more roundabout in their solution. For example, Open Border policy (even if it's not GJs strongest ideal) is hard to explain given the recent terror attacks. It's much easier for people to just say "BUILD THAT WALL". So GJ will be going against the grain trying to explain why that is a waste of time and money.
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post 1456063463 08-04-2016, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted By MultipleSources⏩
Gotta polish up those debate skills beforehand, though. He's definitely got the substance advantage but he needs to give more simple explanations with less nuance to get across on the national stage unfortunately. Those with a Libertarian background will get what he's saying but sometimes Libertarian ideals are more roundabout in their solution. For example, Open Border policy (even if it's not GJs strongest ideal) is hard to explain given the recent terror attacks. It's much easier for people to just say "BUILD THAT WALL". So GJ will be going against the grain trying to explain why that is a waste of time and money.
1.) Let's not forget that Obama was destroyed by Romney in the first debate in 2012. Obama was able to bounce back, so let's hope that Johnson, who just had his first big time television event, was just shaking off some rust.

2.) Since he is not open borders and has a sensible plan that includes a path to citizenship, I think he can convert many hispanic voters.
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Ron Paul and Rand Paul are defenders of liberty. Guys like Justin Amash and Mike Lee are also good.

Gary Johnson is not a libertarian. He supports the TPP, then there's the cake thing, Weld the former CFR scum, the list goes on.

Voted for him last time. PASSING this time.
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Originally Posted By adam220891⏩
Ron Paul and Rand Paul are defenders of liberty. Guys like Justin Amash and Mike Lee are also good.

Gary Johnson is not a libertarian. He supports the TPP, then there's the cake thing, Weld the former CFR scum, the list goes on.

Voted for him last time. PASSING this time.
No one here claiming he's a true Libertarian per OP, etc. He's a left of center GOP who shares some Libertarian values and positions running on the Libertarian ticket, and he's still 100X better than your alternatives. If you wanna pass because he does not live up to perfection of Libertarian ideals (and obviously Rand should have been the GOP nominee if people were not so f-ing stupid...) and vote for Dump or HC, that's up to you.

HC is far from the Democratic ideal and Dump not even close to a true Repub, so there you have it. It's no longer an intellectual discussion but one of who leads the most powerful nation on the planet.

End of the day, do you think HC or Dump will be defenders of Liberty over GJ? Me either...
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post 1456067263 08-04-2016, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
https://www.isidewith.com/

I aligned with Jill Stein more than anyone else. Hilary was my second alignment. (But I'd never vote for her, she just seems evil.) Gary J was my third choice. And Trump was my 4th.

Seems like Gary Johnson and Jill Stein will both cancel each other out and we'll be stuck with Trump or Hilary. I can't really conjure much other than apathy towards the entire process, and don't care much for politics in the first place.
Jill Stein: 90%
Hillary Clinton: 76%
Gary Johnson: 54%
Trump: 34%


meh~ the questions were good though.
post 1456067843 08-04-2016, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
No one here claiming he's a true Libertarian per OP, etc. He's a left of center GOP who shares some Libertarian values and positions running on the Libertarian ticket, and he's still 100X better than your alternatives. If you wanna pass because he does not live up to perfection of Libertarian ideals (and obviously Rand should have been the GOP nominee if people were not so f-ing stupid...) and vote for Dump or HC, that's up to you.

HC is far from the Democratic ideal and Dump not even close to a true Repub, so there you have it. It's no longer an intellectual discussion but one of who leads the most powerful nation on the planet.

End of the day, do you think HC or Dump will be defenders of Liberty over GJ? Me either...
I would've preferred McAfee or Petersen. My concern is neocons taking over the L party. If the L's get historic turnout, will they trend further from core libertarian values and continue watering down their platform?
post 1456068503 08-04-2016, 09:34 AM
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#236
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Originally Posted By adam220891⏩
I would've preferred McAfee or Petersen. My concern is neocons taking over the L party. If the L's get historic turnout, will they trend further from core libertarian values and continue watering down their platform?
McAfee is the man and I communicated with him a few times about his interest in supplements and such. He, Rand, and GJ are the only people I have ever donated $ to. He's also way to ahead of his time and not any chance he'd get elected to POTUS. What he should so is run for a lower office, show he can do the job, etc, and come back next time around depending on how things shake out. Who ever wins should make him the cyber security czar, but other than GJ, I don't see anyone have the nards to do it.

I think a win by a kinda sorta Libertarian such as GJ would only hugely increase the parties creds and you'd see more elected to office. You'll never get a pure/true Libertarian into high office starting with one, never.

Get Libertarian light into high office, and work from there espousing the general values of the party vs any one person.
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post 1456068743 08-04-2016, 09:35 AM
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That site showed I side with Johnson because I tend to lean libertarian which isn't a surprise.
post 1456070063 08-04-2016, 09:44 AM
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#238
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Originally Posted By Jayl12345⏩
I was legit, kind of excited about this guy getting a solid spot. Then I read his military reform plan. Dude wants to decrease military spending by 43%.

We've been chopped to pieces with all the budget cuts, and dropping by that much would utterly destroy this country's defenses.
I'm very pro mil up and down my 'Mericun spine, but you and I both know there's a huge amount of wasted $$ and intelligent, vs just across the board, reductions could in fact enhance our security. We spend untold billions on things and places we don't need, and a focus on vet med care, ground troop support, SOF, HUMENT, and not destabilizing secular governments in favor of "moderate" rebels and other stupid chit that has greatly reduced our security.

This has to do with allocation and intent. HC hates the mil and will destroy it if she can. Trump is well, Trump. Libertarians are non interventionist as a rule, and see that any large scale military action requires a vote by Congress and a DOW.
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post 1456206693 08-05-2016, 06:49 AM
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#239
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Gary Johnson polling just higher than Trump in D.C.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...-columbia/#now
post 1456208363 08-05-2016, 07:07 AM
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#240
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Originally Posted By JimFromRaleigh1⏩
Gary Johnson polling just higher than Trump in D.C.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...-columbia/#now
But they by a wide margin want HC, because they prefer biz as usual and know they can work with a insider power broker like HC vs Dump or GJ.
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