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Forum » Please contact your representatives about the upcoming kratom ban
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Thread: Please contact your representatives about the upcoming kratom ban

post 1464943941 10-03-2016, 06:38 PM
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Notsure if repost


http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkro.../#5a3d8fe04f71
Originally Posted By Prose
Ban weed, relegalize weed, ban Kratom. USA is so weird.
Big Pharma would profit more with Kratom out of its way.
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post 1464944071 10-03-2016, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
OP can us Canadians sign?
Anyone in the world can sign the WH petition, AFAIK.
post 1464944241 10-03-2016, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted By Oatmeal12⏩
Notsure if repost


http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkro.../#5a3d8fe04f71
Nope, but I posted all those articles on my Twitter, and I follow that author and Jacob Sullum on Twitter who both publish those articles for Forbes. You can also see the latest news on Kratom here:http://www.americankratom.org/recent_news
post 1464945611 10-03-2016, 06:49 PM
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post 1464946481 10-03-2016, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted By pogue⏩
Anyone in the world can sign the WH petition, AFAIK.
yup, signed it no problem


took literally 5 seconds
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post 1464947641 10-03-2016, 07:00 PM
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I would need to see more trials done to research kramtom before I could fully support it, as it comes with some concerning side effects and the possibility of addiction/withdrawal. With legitimate research put forth it could possibly prove to be useful and safe option in the treatment opioid use disorder.
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post 1464948491 10-03-2016, 07:06 PM
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inb4 Joe Rogan
post 1464949761 10-03-2016, 07:13 PM
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Thanks for sharing. I've never even heard of it before now. Do you know if there is a certain bill they're talking about or is it just something which comes from the executive as a regulation?
post 1464951681 10-03-2016, 07:26 PM
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Thanks OP, I've been meaning to make a kratom post on the misc but only just now was able to get my account up.

Can confirm Kratom is the GOAT when hitting on women. Not a crazy high or anything, but it def gets the job done, and certain strains really can relieve anxiety.

All you FA miscers should try this stuff!!
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post 1464952241 10-03-2016, 07:29 PM
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so wheres a good source for it? i might get some for my gf.. does anyone know if it interacts with other medications much?
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post 1464952581 10-03-2016, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted By Fsharpasharp⏩
I would need to see more trials done to research kramtom before I could fully support it, as it comes with some concerning side effects and the possibility of addiction/withdrawal. With legitimate research put forth it could possibly prove to be useful and safe option in the treatment opioid use disorder.
I can fully understand that position, but if the DEA puts kratom in schedule I, it makes it a catch 22 for researchers to study it. Once a substance is schedule I, it in effect, cannot be studied because it is declared to have no medical use.

So, even if you don't agree with leaving this on the open market, there's no alternative at this point. You can write you representatives and make that argument, but for now, keeping it legal is the best option for everyone.
“In the end, this is a disservice to science,” said Christopher McCurdy, chairman of Biomolecular Sciences at the University of Mississippi, which has been on the forefront of research into kratom as a non-opium-based painkiller and an herbal alternative to methadone or suboxone. For decades, the University of Mississippi also had the only contract with the DEA to grow marijuana for medical research.

“I don’t think Schedule I is the right thing at this moment because we don’t have the science yet to speak to potential medical benefits — and we think there are medical benefits.”

McCurdy, who has been studying kratom for more than a decade, says a Schedule I designation means there will be “a lot more hoops to jump through” to have access to the plant, including more security, licenses that can be tough to obtain, new levels of bureaucracy, special safes and scheduled in-person visits from DEA agents. “I know people with Schedule I licenses,” McCurdy said, “and it’s much more lock-and-key.”

After his team heard about the DEA’s plans, he said, they’ve “been frantically trying to figure out how to get our latest research out the door and into the literature.”

McCurdy said his research on mice revealed “promising data” that kratom could be used to help people transition off opioids, though his research hasn’t been extended to humans.

“Our whole hope was to look at pharmacological regulation for kratom as a botanical alternative to methadone or suboxone,” McCurdy said. But he’s not sure the DEA or the Food and Drug Administration “even understand the science — and to be honest, even us basic scientists don’t fully understand the science yet.”

That, he added, is why the DEA’s move to put kratom on the Schedule I list, and further from the reach of researchers like him, is worrisome. “Once the DEA goes down these kinds of paths,” he said, “it’s hard to reverse their course.”
DEA moves to ban kratom, frustrating both scientists and usershttp://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...ticle_left_1.1

See also:Should Kratom Be Banned? Here's What the Experts SayandKratom Drug Ban May Cripple Promising Painkiller Research.
Originally Posted By MadNight⏩
Thanks for sharing. I've never even heard of it before now. Do you know if there is a certain bill they're talking about or is it just something which comes from the executive as a regulation?
Here:https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...tragynine-intoandhttps://www.dea.gov/divisions/hq/2016/hq083016.shtmlis where they post it. The DEA has unprecedented powers to completely ban any substance it wants without approval from anyone in any branch of government, so they don't need to enact any new laws or anything to ban kratom or anything else for that matter.
post 1464953771 10-03-2016, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted By andpinger⏩
Thanks OP, I've been meaning to make a kratom post on the misc but only just now was able to get my account up.

Can confirm Kratom is the GOAT when hitting on women. Not a crazy high or anything, but it def gets the job done, and certain strains really can relieve anxiety.

All you FA miscers should try this stuff!!
That has not been my experience with it. I take it for my crippling irritable bowel syndrome and GERD (Gastroeso****eal Reflux Disease) pain I experience almost daily. It's the only thing that has helped me, and I live in Texas and cannot get health insurance because the state refuses to accept the billions of dollars in Obamacare funds for political reasons.
Originally Posted By seanb1979⏩
so wheres a good source for it? i might get some for my gf.. does anyone know if it interacts with other medications much?
There might be a few sources out there for it, but most everyone was getting rid of it because they were anticipating it being banned on Sept the 30th. You might check /r/kratom. Otherwise, I'm looking into tianeptine, kanna extract, and AKUAMMA (Picralima Nitida) seeds. Real kava kava made in the tradition way is also a very good option. If anybody wants sources for these things, HMU on Twitter or email (signature).

Keep in mind, once kratom gets scheduled, it will be a felony to be in possession of it.
post 1464954511 10-03-2016, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted By pogue⏩
I never finished writing it. I got into some beef with a supplement company and another forum that unjustly banned me for talking sh!t about their piss poor products that are totally deceitful and bogus. I could have banned the reps here and censored their name from the site since they don't even sell here, but I decided to take the high road and just drop it. The article was done and finished though.
Well that's a bummer. It was looking to be an interesting piece.
post 1464954981 10-03-2016, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted By pogue⏩
Here: (LINK) is where they post it. The DEA has unprecedented powers to completely ban any substance it wants without approval from anyone from any branch of government, so they don't need to enact any new laws or anything to ban kratom or anything else for that matter.
Can Congress actually stop them? That aspect of the federal government really bothers me. That is, who is to say what an agency like FDA is going to do on a day-to-day basis? I know it's also a hot-button issue regarding firearms and the ATF when they make certain regulations on this or that. The problem is...suppose you get a hold of your congressman. What can they do about it?

I'm not suggesting defeatism but rather perhaps there are certain congressmen or women who are in charge of the FDA oversight. Maybe they are the people to appeal to...

I'll read up on it and see what I can find out. It's an interesting issue.
post 1464955001 10-03-2016, 07:47 PM
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Used Kratom once to help me get off opiates. Granted, it didn't stick that time around but it did seem to help when I used it with the WDs.

EDIT: The physical dependence argument is pretty weak to me when Suboxone and Methadone withdraws have been said to be worse than heroin withdraws in many cases not too mention the cost is substantial especially without insurance. I never used Suboxone long enough to become dependent on it, and only took Methadone once.
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post 1464956051 10-03-2016, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted By MadNight⏩
Can Congress actually stop them? That aspect of the federal government really bothers me. That is, who is to say what an agency like FDA is going to do on a day-to-day basis? I know it's also a hot-button issue regarding firearms and the ATF when they make certain regulations on this or that. The problem is...suppose you get a hold of your congressman. What can they do about it?

I'm not suggesting defeatism but rather perhaps there are certain congressmen or women who are in charge of the FDA oversight. Maybe they are the people to appeal to...

I'll read up on it and see what I can find out. It's an interesting issue.
congress is the law of the land though - they could easily pass a law saying they have complete foresight over DEA decisions if they choose to. I'm honestly amazed they don't currently. Pretty ****ing scary. The DEA could ban tylenol if they wanted and just start raiding walmarts with automatic weapons.
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post 1464958591 10-03-2016, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted By seanb1979⏩
congress is the law of the land though - they could easily pass a law saying they have complete foresight over DEA decisions if they choose to. I'm honestly amazed they don't currently. Pretty ****ing scary. The DEA could ban tylenol if they wanted and just start raiding walmarts with automatic weapons.
Unfortunately, I don't think that laws move easily through Congress anymore. We can barely get them to keep the government running. That's bad. They're not set up to move quickly on things such as this.

It still makes sense to reach out, in my opinion. I'm not sure what other points of leverage you have as a regular person but to say you are a voter and you have an interest in a certain issue. If they receive those letters in numbers you can hope they will keep it in mind.
post 1464959401 10-03-2016, 08:19 PM
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The government doesn't want a country filled with critically thinking citizens who are able to boost their mood and reduce anxiety. They want a country filled with mindless automaton drones who don't question a thing, are perpetually stressed, and keep showing up to their schitty jobs living each day in a whirlwind of consumption and fear.

Can't say I'm surprised they're banning kratom now. What's next?
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post 1464961181 10-03-2016, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted By seanb1979⏩
congress is the law of the land though - they could easily pass a law saying they have complete foresight over DEA decisions if they choose to. I'm honestly amazed they don't currently. Pretty ****ing scary. The DEA could ban tylenol if they wanted and just start raiding walmarts with automatic weapons.
They are supposed to be, but Congress enabled the DEA to act in this manner. This is from the Dear Colleague letter:
The standard required for triggering the emergency scheduling authority under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA)1 requires an immediate threat to the public safety based on a public record of injuries or deaths caused by the substance being recommended for scheduling. The Congress granted emergency scheduling authority to the DEA based on the need for law enforcement interdiction of new and previously unknown illegal synthetic street drugs that result in injuries and death. The use of this emergency authority is unprecedented for a natural substance, so it is important to determine whether such precedential decisions necessitate a jump to Schedule I.

The Congress has established a specific set of review protocols for such proposed regulatory actions that allows for the full engagement of consumers, researchers, health professionals, law enforcement officials, and other stakeholders when the proposed policy change will create significant disruption in the marketplace. Given the reported long history of Kratom use itself, coupled with the public’s sentiment that this is a safe alternative to opioids, we believe utilizing the regular review process would provide for a needed discussion among all stakeholders. We understand the DEA intent to uphold public health and safety, and we share the desire to see unsafe products removed from the market. However, hearing multiple perspectives allows for more fulsome decision-making.

Given the extremely short timeframe for the implementation of the proposed DEA scheduling order, we urge you to take appropriate steps to delay this proposed temporary scheduling order to allow both for a public comment period and sufficient time for the DEA to outline its evidentiary standards to the Congress on the justification for this proposed action.
https://www.scribd.com/document/3263...garding-Kratom


That's a letter from concerned senators concerned that the DEA is overstepping its bounds banning a natural botanical herbal supplement without any period for public comment (which even MDMA got). The only way to remove that ability from the DEA is for Congress to pass a bill to remove it, and I seriously don't see that happening anytime soon. The public is terrified of "drugs" and I think until the last generation dies, only then will we maybe see some change. I never thought I would see states legalizing marijuana in my lifetime, but it happened, so there is hope. But, the next president could come along and undo all that with the swipe of a pen. Sometimes I really do hate this country.

So, here's a funny edited video of Ronald and Nancy Reagan to cheer us up:

post 1464962971 10-03-2016, 08:46 PM
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People use it to get high, just like the vast majority of people who use painkillers. Both parties will argue that they are doing it for pain, while it is obvious to most they use it as a narcotic.

It's addictive, and has some pretty hefty side effects.

Sounds like a pretty legitimate reason to make it a controlled substance, that should only be given under a doctors order.


However, it shouldn't be a Schedule I Drug. It just isn't that powerful, and does have some legitimate uses. It should be a schedule 2 Drug


I don't believe people should be using kratom without the guidance of a doctor, because self-diagnosing for use of it can lead to unwanted addiction. People who are in extreme pain are not in the best position to determine what they should be using, and how much of it, as their goal is to relieve the pain, and the desire to relieve pain will trump sound thinking.

EDIT:
I'm not trying to be negative to the use of kratom, but rather approach it in the most realistic way possible. It is a useful substance, but the typical parties that flock to these type of substances have a high abuse rate. I would love to see it be used more in the medical field under the watchful eye of a doctor.
post 1464963551 10-03-2016, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By Sportacus88⏩
People use it to get high, just like the vast majority of people who use painkillers. Both parties will argue that they are doing it for pain, while it is obvious to most they use it as a narcotic.

It's addictive, and has some pretty hefty side effects.

Sounds like a pretty legitimate reason to make it a controlled substance, that should only be given under a doctors order.


However, it shouldn't be a Schedule I Drug. It just isn't that powerful, and does have some legitimate uses. It should be a schedule 2 Drug


I don't believe people should be using kratom without the guidance of a doctor, because self-diagnosing for use of it can lead to unwanted addiction. People who are in extreme pain are not in the best position to determine what they should be using, and how much of it, as their goal is to relieve the pain, and the desire to relieve pain will trump sound thinking.

EDIT:
I'm not trying to be negative to the use of kratom, but rather approach it in the most realistic way possible. It is a useful substance, but the typical parties that flock to these type of substances have a high abuse rate. I would love to see it be used more in the medical field under the watchful eye of a doctor.
The war on drugs has got to end man. There can be no way to stop the supply side of drugs and make people into criminals for using them. It's an endless battle that can never be won. You can't regulate morality. Just watch this short video and see what you think:

post 1464979751 10-03-2016, 11:26 PM
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Props for good info OP. Forgot my old acct, but came in to post about this topic (yes mad!)

For those interested, consider donating to the American Kratom Association or Botanical Education Alliance.

Even for those not particularly interested in Kratom, this issue encompasses many important issues:
-a complete disregard for the personal lives of veterans, pain patients, and just regular people who enjoy kratom. Lives will be thrown into chaos because of this.
-Overreach into our personal lives by an un-elected federal agency
-a police agency (DEA) making laws that they then get to enforce (no checks an balances)
-These laws making criminals out of regular citizens

The Drug War has gone too far.

Thanks for putting all this info in one place OP.
post 1464980531 10-03-2016, 11:35 PM
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They delayed the ban after the petition. I posted about it in the thread that's been going on for about a month earlier today:

http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showth...hp?t=172324323
Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
UPDATE: DEA DELAYS BAN ON KRATOM

140k signed the petition
50 senators signed onto a letter sent to the DEA

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkro.../#6fb04a534f71

The Senators closed their letter with a more encompassing view of the societal impact of drug policy:

"Since 1980, our federal prison population has exploded by nearly 800 percent. This increase is a result of draconian drug policies that continue to place nonviolent drug offenders behind bars. We should not, in haste and without adequate opportunity for comment and analysis, place substances in categories that may be inconsistent with their medical value and potential for abuse."

DAS FKIN IT MANE. It's almost shocking to see government overreach delayed for once.
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does kratom work for social anxiety and depression?
post 1465026881 10-04-2016, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted By Meninist⏩
does kratom work for social anxiety and depression?
I can't speak for the depression, but 100% yes on the social anxiety. I often have mini panic attacks in a lot of social situations, and kratom takes that away almost completely. It helps more than just ordinary social interactions, it reduces all anxiety, and I feel like I can handle anything thrown at me. The biggest benefit for me as just been a boost to confidence in general.
post 1465027141 10-04-2016, 10:29 AM
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Maybe I am allergic or something but even the smallest amount of that stuff makes me violently puke for about 24 hours.
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post 1465039511 10-04-2016, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted By devin45k⏩
Maybe I am allergic or something but even the smallest amount of that stuff makes me violently puke for about 24 hours.
Yeah, possible allergy. Sometimes if you get bad shizz from a questionable source, that can happen too...any chance of that? A full 24 hr of puking is extreme in any case!
post 1465047901 10-04-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Arsenal01⏩
so wtf? should they ban/regulate caffiene?


not everyone has the self controll of a puppy and can actually enjoy/use stuff in the correct way


Look around any street...should they BAN all fast food because of the physical dependancy? that makes more sense than banning kratom


OP can us Canadians sign?
I guess it depends on how you view governments involvement. Do I think drugs should be decriminalized? Yes. Do I think they need to be regulated? Absolutely. People are stupid brother. That's why I think the govt needs to step in. If left to their own people like myself who cannot self regulate would die. Do some people want to rid the world of addicts? Sure seems like some countries do.

Your argument of banning caffeine or food because of physical dependence isnt worth my time. Get yourself hooked on drugs go to detox a few times and then tell me what you think.
6'5
245 on 2/28/17
238 on 4/11/17
229 on 5/18/17
231(came back from my Honeymoon so I gained a little) on 6/9/17
My goal weight is 220 I think we will see

(Cut started 12/12/2016)

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post 1465048811 10-04-2016, 12:59 PM
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#89
  1. zknarc
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  1. zknarc
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Originally Posted By Meninist⏩
does kratom work for social anxiety and depression?
It does just like any other opioid would. You'll then get dependant on it to alleviate depression, your dose will escalate due to tolerance and you'll suffer withdrawal without it where your depression will be many times as bad. Ask me how I know...

Just read all the stories here:www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom

There is a reason opiates, which have been around since the year dot, are not used to treat these. If you want to feel +10 at some point you will end up feeling -10.
If you can't handle me when I'm incel, you don't deserve me when I'm chad
post 1465052051 10-04-2016, 01:23 PM
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#90
  1. pogue
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Originally Posted By zknarc⏩
It does just like any other opioid would. You'll then get dependant on it to alleviate depression, your dose will escalate due to tolerance and you'll suffer withdrawal without it where your depression will be many times as bad. Ask me how I know...

Just read all the stories here:www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom

There is a reason opiates, which have been around since the year dot, are not used to treat these. If you want to feel +10 at some point you will end up feeling -10.
You must have seriously abused kratom to get to that point. I've been using kratom for 6-7 years and gone on and off it multiple times without any withdrawal whatsoever. But, I keep my dosages at a reasonable range. I wasn't trying to get high off it, just relieve my extreme GI pain.
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