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Forum » Health Care a Human Right?
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Thread: Health Care a Human Right?

post 1503621131 05-05-2017, 12:06 PM
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Health Care a Human Right?

I understand that medical care cost money and Health care covers those cost using peoples insurance payments. Why do people believe it is an innate right like breathing air?












































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post 1503621331 05-05-2017, 12:08 PM
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post 1503621621 05-05-2017, 12:10 PM
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"Rights" are only things you yourself are able to do freely (and that the government can't take away). Like having your own gun, your own opinion/voice, your own vote, etc.


Gettingsomeone else to perform serviceson you is not a "right".
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post 1503622001 05-05-2017, 12:14 PM
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I'm not sure if it's a right but I'm more like people deserve to live. Say a person has brain cancer. If he doesn't get the surgery that he needs then he'll die. The insurance company won't do the surgery because of financial/legal reasons. He nor his loved ones can't afford it. 6 months later his brain deteriorates and he dies.

I'm more for universal healthcare due to these type of scenarios.

Now should everyone pay for everybody's healthcare? Probably not.
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post 1503622361 05-05-2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
I'm not sure if it's a right but I'm more like people deserve to live. Say a person has brain cancer. If he doesn't get the surgery that he needs then he'll die. The insurance company won't do the surgery because of financial/legal reasons. He nor his loved ones can't afford it. 6 months later his brain deteriorates and he dies.

I'm more for universal healthcare due to these type of scenarios.

Now should everyone pay for everybody's healthcare? Probably not.
Are these not one in the same?
post 1503623001 05-05-2017, 12:21 PM
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Rights are a wishy washy concept and it's best not to get too caught up in them. The important point is, given our current level of technology and development, we can easily arrange our healthcare system in such a way to cover the healthcare needs of all individuals, and so it is in the interests of the population to do so
post 1503623041 05-05-2017, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
I'm not sure if it's a right but I'm more like people deserve to live. Say a person has brain cancer. If he doesn't get the surgery that he needs then he'll die. The insurance company won't do the surgery because of financial/legal reasons. He nor his loved ones can't afford it. 6 months later his brain deteriorates and he dies.

I'm more for universal healthcare due to these type of scenarios.

Now should everyone pay for everybody's healthcare? Probably not.
Someone still has to pay for that surgery. Universal healthcare is a just another tax on the young and healthy that benefits the old and sick. I'm sorry that rare cases will suffer because of it, but they are the exception, not the rule.
post 1503623221 05-05-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
I'm more for universal healthcare due to these type of scenarios.

Now should everyone pay for everybody's healthcare? Probably not.
Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
Are these not one in the same?
This is where my conflict comes into play. Should everyone have the opportunity to have healthcare? Yeah definitely, especially with the rising costs of medication and procedures.

But, why should person A, who is 25 and in good health and takes care of himself be paying the same premium as person B who is 35 who has high cholesterol and is obese and is a smoker...... it's definitely not fair looking at it like that, but in reality there would probably be too many determining factors to say someone is in "good health"

Ultimately I'd be fine paying for universal insurance as long as it actually covered the medical expenses I'd require. Right now I'm paying for garbage insurance that barely covers anything. I'm just paying so I don't get fined.

IMO Universal Healthcare, which is actually GOOD, would probably be accepted by a large majority of Americans. Also people who don't have jobs and are on welfare should not have access to cheaper rates. Go get a job. I should not be punished by paying 5x the amount because I have a good job.
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post 1503623241 05-05-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted By vsportsguy⏩
Someone still has to pay for that surgery. Universal healthcare is a just another tax on the young and healthy that benefits the old and sick. I'm sorry that rare cases will suffer because of it, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Hint: The young and healthy will become old and sick one day
post 1503623291 05-05-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
I'm not sure if it's a right but I'm more like people deserve to live.
Do they?
Why?

And what of the people whose health problems are their own doing?
They voluntarily choose to bring those health problems into their lives.
So why do they deserve the time, labor, and resources to fix what they knowingly and voluntarily let fester over time?
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post 1503623521 05-05-2017, 12:26 PM
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our healthcare system is chit. deal with it
post 1503623631 05-05-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted By vsportsguy⏩
Someone still has to pay for that surgery. Universal healthcare is a just another tax on the young and healthy that benefits the old and sick. I'm sorry that rare cases will suffer because of it, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Like I said in my post, that is something that irks me too, but in the end who determines " healthy"........... if they could come up with some kind of general requirements then maybe something like that would work, but it could be so subjective.

To contrast my example in my post before... lets compare person A, who is 25 and been smoking since he was 16 and is obese.................versus Person B, who is average weight, good shape but has diabetes...... you could argue both people are unhealthy, even though person A doesn't have any official "condition"
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post 1503623661 05-05-2017, 12:27 PM
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Rights are a joke and no one gives a fuk about them anymore.
post 1503623821 05-05-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted By midcoastking33⏩
our healthcare system is chit. deal with it
Pretty much...American healthcare is "keep you alive enough to keep getting treatments and buying prescriptions" healthcare.
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post 1503624011 05-05-2017, 12:30 PM
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post 1503624331 05-05-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
I'm not sure if it's a right but I'm more like people deserve to live. Say a person has brain cancer. If he doesn't get the surgery that he needs then he'll die. The insurance company won't do the surgery because of financial/legal reasons. He nor his loved ones can't afford it. 6 months later his brain deteriorates and he dies.

I'm more for universal healthcare due to these type of scenarios.

Now should everyone pay for everybody's healthcare? Probably not.
Let's say a person has a 10% chance to live with that brain cancer, even with surgery. Do you think the public should be forced to fork over millions of dollars for a low percentage?

I feel like the vast majority of such cases are people who live unhealthy lifestyles and have flirted with bad outcomes for a long time. I personally don't feel the public should fund anyone who is personally responsible for their bad health, because they had the power to prevent and adjust before it was too late.

We seem to forget that we don't live in a perfect universe..chit happens and we can die from pretty much anything. No reason to have to pay huge tax rates over the fear of death, imo. And yes, the public burden on attempting to keep everyone healthy regardless of chances and their general health will cost the average taxpayer a fortune.
post 1503624451 05-05-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted By BrocepCurls⏩
Hint: The young and healthy will become old and sick one day
1. That's not necessarily true. The extent of that sickness is largely due to my choices. Health is hugely influenced by lifestyle factors.

2. There's no guarantee I will be taken care of if I do become sick. Take social security for example: my generation may pay social security our entire lives and the entire system could collapse before we retire. When it comes my turn to receive it, I might not even see a penny.

Millennials have to stand up for our generation. We're far too liberal and we're getting royally fuked by the baby boomers.
post 1503624541 05-05-2017, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted By BrocepCurls⏩
Hint: The young and healthy will become old and sick one day
Another good question - if somebody is 85 years old and needs surgery to treat cancer or some heart condition, should the public fund it? Or has that person's clock struck 0? We all die of something..

Government paid healthcare simply begs these questions, and will undoubtedly lead to less privacy into our own personal lives.

If everyone is responsible for their own health costs, then people are free to live their life however they want, and government has no reason to reduce privacy in order to reduce the overall cost of healthcare to public. I personally don't want to live in an expensive cage for the fear of what is statistically unlikely.
post 1503625071 05-05-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By ecs33⏩
Another good question - if somebody is 85 years old and needs surgery to treat cancer or some heart condition, should the public fund it? Or has that person's clock struck 0? We all die of something..

Government paid healthcare simply begs these questions, and will undoubtedly lead to less privacy into our own personal lives.

If everyone is responsible for their own health costs, then people are free to live their life however they want, and government has no reason to reduce privacy in order to reduce the overall cost of healthcare to public.
On that same train of thought.. WHO decides whether you get treatment or not? Doctors? Government? What diseases will we treat or not? What age is the cutoff limit for help? So many variables here it's unreal.
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post 1503625421 05-05-2017, 12:43 PM
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I think theres a distinction between saying "healthcare is a human right" and "we have the means to provide healthcare for every American, so we should". I'm not sure if we do, or if we can even find something that everyone would agree on as far as what would be covered, but I think the country would probably be better off if, all things being the same, every citizen were entitled to healthcare.
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post 1503625671 05-05-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted By vsportsguy⏩
1. That's not necessarily true. The extent of that sickness is largely due to my choices. Health is hugely influenced by lifestyle factors.
genetics and environment >>>>>>>>>> lifestyle choices
post 1503626561 05-05-2017, 12:53 PM
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I have mixed feelings on health care

I believe everyone should have access to health care but here in canada where there is no charge to go into the emergency room, you see so many people abuse the right. People literally go there daily if they have a slight cough or runny nose. It leads to insanely long wait times and wasting the dr's time
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post 1503626591 05-05-2017, 12:53 PM
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Some of the posts here are either blissful ignorance or borderline insanity. Do Americans not know how health care in other developed countries work, or even how much money they themselves spend on healthcare? ****ing hell we have threads in the Misc about people literally not going to the doctor with infections or broken bones because they don't have the money to pay up... nevermind that every other American seems to have a gofundme for an elderly relative who can't afford their medical treatment. That shouldn't be normal.



Obamacare is junk, so will be GOPcare. "Socialist" countries spend a lot less and cover everyone while "free" Americans enjoy the same life expectancy as Cuba. Figure it out.

and yeah Canadian healthcare is far from perfect but countries like Australia and Switzerland incorporate more market mechanisms while keeping coverage universal and delivering excellent services. Plenty of examples that the US can follow.
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post 1503626751 05-05-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted By midcoastking33⏩
genetics and environment >>>>>>>>>> lifestyle choices
I strongly disagree. Most of the leading causes of death can be prevented (and even reversed in some cases) through diet.
post 1503627411 05-05-2017, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted By VTheKing⏩
Some of the posts here are either blissful ignorance or borderline insanity. Do Americans not know how health care in other developed countries work, or even how much money they themselves spend on healthcare? ****ing hell we have threads in the Misc about people literally not going to the doctor with infections or broken bones because they don't have the money to pay up... nevermind that every other American seems to have a gofundme for an elderly relative who can't afford their medical treatment. That shouldn't be normal.



Obamacare is junk, so will be GOPcare. "Socialist" countries spend a lot less and cover everyone while "free" Americans enjoy the same life expectancy as Cuba. Figure it out.

and yeah Canadian healthcare is far from perfect but countries like Australia and Switzerland incorporate more market mechanisms while keeping coverage universal and delivering excellent services. Plenty of examples that the US can follow.
Life expectancy between the US and Canada is about 1 year. FYI.
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post 1503627571 05-05-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted By VTheKing⏩
Some of the posts here are either blissful ignorance or borderline insanity. Do Americans not know how health care in other developed countries work, or even how much money they themselves spend on healthcare? ****ing hell we have threads in the Misc about people literally not going to the doctor with infections or broken bones because they don't have the money to pay up... nevermind that every other American seems to have a gofundme for an elderly relative who can't afford their medical treatment. That shouldn't be normal.



Obamacare is junk, so will be GOPcare. "Socialist" countries spend a lot less and cover everyone while "free" Americans enjoy the same life expectancy as Cuba. Figure it out.

and yeah Canadian healthcare is far from perfect but countries like Australia and Switzerland incorporate more market mechanisms while keeping coverage universal and delivering excellent services. Plenty of examples that the US can follow.
Those other countries are smaller, more homogenous, and typically have much stricter immigration control. I know in most scandinavian countries you to make a certain minimum income to be allowed to stay there.

Also, there is a direct correlation between government involvement in our health system and cost of healthcare. It has been a growing problem for just over 100 years now.
post 1503628001 05-05-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted By justdragit⏩
Life expectancy between the US and Canada is about 1 year. FYI.
looking at the numbers on wikipedia (sourced from WHO), it's more like 4 years. it's within 2 years of Denmark and Germany though so it's not like it's massively worse than everyone else.

either way the point is that Americans pay a lot more for healthcare, the health outcomes are worse and coverage isn't even guaranteed.
Originally Posted By ecs33⏩
Those other countries are smaller, more homogenous, and typically have much stricter immigration control. I know in most scandinavian countries you to make a certain minimum income to be allowed to stay there.

Also, there is a direct correlation between government involvement in our health system and cost of healthcare. It has been a growing problem for just over 100 years now.
Hispanics actually have a higher life expectancy than non-Hispanic whites in the US so nah, it isn't Juan leeching off hospitals and dragging the average down.

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post 1503628171 05-05-2017, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted By VTheKing⏩
Some of the posts here are either blissful ignorance or borderline insanity. Do Americans not know how health care in other developed countries work, or even how much money they themselves spend on healthcare? ****ing hell we have threads in the Misc about people literally not going to the doctor with infections or broken bones because they don't have the money to pay up... nevermind that every other American seems to have a gofundme for an elderly relative who can't afford their medical treatment. That shouldn't be normal.



Obamacare is junk, so will be GOPcare. "Socialist" countries spend a lot less and cover everyone while "free" Americans enjoy the same life expectancy as Cuba. Figure it out.

and yeah Canadian healthcare is far from perfect but countries like Australia and Switzerland incorporate more market mechanisms while keeping coverage universal and delivering excellent services. Plenty of examples that the US can follow.
BRB going to Turkey where its free and super efficient. Why else would they be paying so little?
post 1503628191 05-05-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted By vsportsguy⏩
I strongly disagree. Most of the leading causes of death can be prevented (and even reversed in some cases) through diet.
The relationship between our genes and the environment, including diet, is unbelievably complex. We simply do not know.
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post 1503628301 05-05-2017, 01:08 PM
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Why waste so much time and money on the inevitable anyway?
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