Yes, I wear a 27 in jeans and run at least 10 miles a week.

27 yo

There's a huge difference between a fat 5/10 and an in shape 5/10.
The fat one has potential

Do you wear sexy/ish clothes on dates? Like show some cleavage or your figure off? That can make a huge difference in getting a second date if the guy is on the fence about you.

If you don't think you have the prettiest face you gotta bring in your other assets to keep reminding the guy he's attracted to you

**** alright ill trust you guys on this

just remember this in a few weeks time when i start making cringeworthy posts about her

If a woman is interested in something exclusive with you, she will bring it up.

Guaranteed.

Yep lol, women think about this stuff more than men.

That said, I don't believe in "rules" here. If you want to know where you stand, ask.

going to second this. DG seems like she is in pretty good shape, if so, she still should not have a problem. most women who are in good shape can still attract men as long as they dress a little feminine and sexy. it still doesn't add up. maybe DG has a really bad face?

The fatness is built into the rating. Women can go from a 4 ->8 based purely on body fat.

I get what you're saying about potential though.

It's not that hard to believe she had a bad face, she did say she's not a good looking woman.

Would her saying "everyone in my life is in a relationship while im still single, even my 5yr old niece has a BF" while talking to me be her bringing it up?

I dress mostly on the preppy/outdoors side of things. Think Ralph Lauren, Patagonia, Vineyard Vines. If that makes sense? Fall is coming so I will be in the leggings and Frye boots like every other basic girl hahaha.

Unless she dresses like an absolute idiot, showing cleavage/dressing sexy wouldn't sway me much.

Depends on the context, but probably yes. It's on her mind.

She may of been feeling you out here. Its comin boyo, be patient. If you want it, make her feel good about herself by complementing her achievements and life skills. Trust in.

Well shes got like a week before school starts so if shes gonna bring it up, its gotta be soon. Im trusting the process that got me this far, its just whether or not she'll bring it upwhat would be a context in which she didnt mean it?

You are hanging out, getting milked, meh if she doesn't

She is dropping hints, its coming. SHOW (not tell) her you would want it too. Little things like cupping her face with your hands when you kiss, lots of cuddles/affection, deep gazes into her eyes, telling her to msg you when she arrives home (after driving), any way to show her you care, etc.

She mentions that she wants to stay single or is happy with it.

ight brah. just my first rodeo at this stuff in a long time and have no idea what im doing at this point. trying to avoid going full blown "beta" and blowing it

Pondus, pmed

It's been a while since I last posted so I'll give an update, although I see Pondus is banned again. This might be a long post but I'll put some cliffs down if it gets out of hand.

Cliffs:

OP has leaving party at work, flirts with new student, B, and said something stupid which put her off.
OP stays out with friends and hits club where he meets Y, a new international student at local uni.
Managed to kiss and get Y's Fb, have not contacted her since Friday.
OP leaves club and whilst waiting for friends is approached by R.
OP flirts with R, gets her Snapchat and kisses in front of her friend. OP has not contacted R since Friday either.

So last week has been pretty steady. Convo with Snapchat girl who I dated for a while 2 years ago fizzled out, (Lets call her J), and I have been pretty preoccupied with prepping for my return to university. Gym and diet has also suffered but now that I have only 2 days left of work, I'm looking to get back in the saddle and make sure I start strong once I arrive at my new place.

Anyways, Friday was my 'leaving' party at work which I shared with one of the senior managers. The plan was basically a bar crawl across town, hitting the mini golf and beer pong towards the end of the night. One of the new students on placement at the business showed up too, (B), who'd I had recieved some attention to earlier in the week at work. (She is friends with another student in my team so often calls up for a chat). So the night went on, I became more drunk and started flirting a bit more towards her and she asks me some questions about myself. I give a dumb AF answer to one of the questions and I notice her interest drops, she then goes on to talk/flirt with another person who's there. Ah well, I back off and write it off as a loss and a learning point.

Later in the night I invited some friends out to make a proper night of it and we hit the clubs when everyone else has left. Towards end of the night I lose my friends and wandered around by myself for a bit and ended up speaking to a International student who was sat by herself (Y). Turns out Y is a new student at the local university and has been travelling for the last few months around Europe before arriving here. Ended up speaking for a bit, getting her ******** and kissing before she went to go find her friends.

Whilst I was trying to find my friends I remember receiving a Snapchat from J, however I was pretty wasted at this point so cant remember what it said. As far as I am aware from the message logs, I did not reply to her, however it seems that interest is still there from her. I had originally invited her to come to my new apartment but I probably should remind and ask if this is still happening.

Club then closes so I decided to wait around outside for my friends to see if they are still inside. A girl approaches me outside and starts up a conversation with me, then proceed to flirt. I flirt back then one of the guys from her group joins the conversation. Was half expecting this to be her bf coming to tell me to phuck off but he just hangs around for the most part (cuck? lol). She asks for my Snapchat and after teasing for a while she kisses me.I know I should have gotten their numbers ideally but it was an interesting night for me, especially with the lack of success elsewhere. I do get the feeling I need to relax more like what I do when I drink, however I was pretty gone towards the end of the night so I have no idea how this happened. Maybe I'm not as bad looking as I thought!

Apologies for the long post, but writing stuff like this helps me and hopefully you can identify areas where I can improve. I guess that I try get their numbers from here, but with me moving away so soon it gives me a chance to practice.

DG: He's not interested. You can't expect every guy you are interested in to reciprocate. It's extremely hard to find someone to get past the initial getting to know you phase. Either you will end up being uninterested or they will. Which is why if you are not playing the numbers game, even a little, you are most likely settling.

HB: Let her bring it up. Hinting at it is not bringing it up. Just keep doing your thing and showing her you are serious. Action speaks louder than words anyway.

MH: Good work. We are rarely as physically ugly to others as we think we are or feel. Just assume you are attractive to whoever you are talking to until they show you are disinterested.

Update:

I've been chatting to quite a few women. I re-enabled my match and it started to blow up. I met two women off there while banned. After our first date, one woman told me she decided she is too busy to date right now, but swears she is not blowing me off, just just needs to get her schedule dialed in. (yeahokay.gif) The other we totally butt heads, but for some reason I am really attracted to her, even though she's not my type at all. I don't think it's going to go anywhere, but I could see us being friends because we are both very outspoken and actually get along even though we have a completely different belief system.

Observation:

One thing that I have notice is that time apart no longer makes the heart fonder, unless you already have them hooked and feeling like they don't want to talk to someone else. I'm still trying to figure this one out and when I do, I will let you know any tips or tricks to keep her interested in the initial get to know you phase.

I haven't really focused on this because I've just been shrugging it off as I get a lot of hits, but it's starting to frustrate me that I'm not really getting anywhere with any of my options the past few months.

In my attraction thread I said time is on your side. Well, time is no longer on your side, so I think you do have to stay proactive, but in a way that that does't seem needy or clingy.

I completely agree. I think a lot has to do with society these days. In general, the attention span of everyone has gotten shorter and there needs to be more done in order to keep attention these days, which obviously includes females. The old "rules" of waiting 2 days after a date to text, getting their number, etc. is complete bull**** as that girl has likely had double digit suitors giving them attention that takes her mind off of you in that time. Therefore, if you didn't completely blow them out of the water, which is highly unlikely, you need that "constant" contact. Unless of course, like you mentioned, you already have them hooked and they caught dem feels.

Yeah, this is what initiated my original discussion. I think I've been misinterpreting distraction as disinterest and blowing my chance. I'm sure there is a way to keep her chasing and increasing attraction. I'll figure it out.

The "game" is changing! That's some solid insight and at least when I look at myself, there have been times that I'm interested in a girl but there are enough distractions that I don't really think about it. However, it's not that I'm disinterested.

I've been distracted, too, which you are right, they probably also view it as disinterest, but I have been doing it on purpose per the "old" way, to keep from looking needy/clingy to the women I am actually interested in. Now I realize it is working against me for more than not.

The only thing that this observation does not apply to are women getting out of relationships and just getting back into the game. Which was fine when I was just dating to date, but now that I am open to a relationship, I don't want to date women that are recently getting out of a LTR. I want someone that is also ready, and if they are ready, that means they have been in the game for a while, too, and their perspective on dating has been reconditioned.

Well the "old" way is good when referring to not becoming needy too soon, however, I think it's important that we understand our role as "the man". In general, AT LEAST in the beginning, I still firmly believe that it is the man's job to initiate, lead, etc. Therefore, if our distractions are too much and showing disinterest, then there is some flaw in our "plan" so to speak.

Kinda hard pill to swallow but it's the truth. All of my friends in marriages chased the girl (in a non-desperate way).

Now I'm not suggesting to chase without reciprocation, but you seem a little bit prideful sometimes Pondus and want the girl to chase you. My opinion on this: if you want to see a girl again, just go for it and forget about mindgames.

You are clearly not a needy or clingy guy by your personality, so you won't come off as one.

I didn't know that it was ever "too much" interest = undesirable. For me at least, I don't really play games, if I'm interested, I let the guy know. Most of the time not verbally, but it's not exactly subtle either. In this case, if the guy seems "distracted" or disengaged from the conversation, I pull back. I don't want to get my feelings hurt, so I'm not going to chase a guy that is preoccupied with other things/women. Don't smother a woman with attention, just match what she does, if she texts you, text back. If her level of interest in the conversation is evident, and she has actual value added things to say, don't intentionally pull back to feign smugness. I cannot speak for all women, but for ones like me, that wouldn't work out in your favor. And how incredibly unfortunate would that be if you both missed out because you're "playing" a game, the wrong way.

I give every woman a chance to step up. I'm not, too prideful. I'm actually pretty keen at detecting disinterest. What I'm getting at is I need to tweak my approach (notice I didn't say game, because I don't play games) to continue to maintain and increase attraction over time.

For example, the woman I went out with last week that told me she is too busy. I was 99% certain she was going to tell me something like that, but I asked her out again anyway. Guess who advised me to do that? A woman. It seriously amazes me how accurate I am at this. I always hope I am wrong, but I never am.

But again, I think it is something that I am not doing correctly now that is making them lose interest and attraction.The only time too much interest is not desirable, is when the woman is even more interested. No, what I am getting at is this. In the past I might send the last text or make the last call. I would expect HER to step up and initiate, so I would back off a few days to let her do that, and she would because she would realize she hasn't talked to me for a while and want to. I do my share of initiating and chasing, but I refuse to put in more effort than her. With all the social media and dating apps, this doesn't happen as much anymore. She may still want to talk to me, but she is so pre-occupied with the other attention she is getting, she never makes the time, and actually doesn't really care because her dopamine needs are being met by all the other rando's hitting her up. Even if they mean nothing to her, they still capture her curiosity and her attention. The retreat phase used to be my key to success. That's what got her locked in. That no longer works.

And actually, I don't think I'm losing the game only when it comes to texting. I have no problem using my text game to get dates. I am losing them in person, too, after the first or second date, whcih used to be my strong point. I always knew that if I could just get them out with me, it was a lock in. Now it's like they get off more on the online attention than the in person attention, so I think it's a combination of both.

You have the same mentality as the FA's. The mentality of, "I should just have to be straight forward and be myself." I'm sorry, but that doesn't work for men. That only works for women. It's always been that way, but men really have to step their game up even more now. Now, if a woman "feels" like a man is doing that, he is playing the game EXTREMELY well, LOL!

I'm certain whatever it is I'm missing is very small, but enough to have huge consequences.