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5 Michigan teens charged with murder after rock thrown from overpass kills a father
10-24-2017, 03:29 PM
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#91
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Originally Posted By northernlights7⏩
I sure hope you're right. I was always think that when people get lenient sentences for ending lives, be it murder, drunk driving, or a stupid decision like this, they inevitably move on and carry out the rest of their lives with their crime being only a distant memory.The idea of lesser punishments for people under 18 is to be more forgiving and not royally fukk up their lives if they happen to shoplift a pack of gum from a Walmart once in their lives, and cut them some slack with other crimes that aren't super malicious. This makes sense given that kids think much differently from adults and their perceptions and actions in life could very well improve regarding small crimes if the books aren't thrown at them when they aren't adults at the time of their crimes.
It was NOT intended to give lenient sentences for clear cut psychopathic behavior. A high school 17 year old kid might not fully grasp the problems associated with shoplifting some bubble gum, but they obviously know that throwing heavy rocks over a highway overpass is dangerous as hell, just as a legal adult would. So the cutting them slack for lack of forward thinking abilities doesn't apply when it comes to crimes like what is essentially murder.
It was NOT intended to give lenient sentences for clear cut psychopathic behavior. A high school 17 year old kid might not fully grasp the problems associated with shoplifting some bubble gum, but they obviously know that throwing heavy rocks over a highway overpass is dangerous as hell, just as a legal adult would. So the cutting them slack for lack of forward thinking abilities doesn't apply when it comes to crimes like what is essentially murder.
10-24-2017, 03:31 PM
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#92
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Legal age should be lowered to 15.
10-24-2017, 03:33 PM
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#93
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Originally Posted By pullupsbrah⏩
This.Execute them.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
10-24-2017, 03:38 PM
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#94
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Like all u guys were perfect angels when u were 16 ? Yes they deserve time in prison but they just kids really. Life hard at that age when u have low self esteem and think when you’re emotions and all u wanna do is fit in they should be given s second chance at life
10-24-2017, 03:38 PM
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#95
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When I was 11 I threw a big dirt ball from on top of the excavation pile (while my parents house was being built) at my mom who was like 30 yards away... hit her smack in the head and exploded in a huge cloud of dust. Was the funniest thing I had ever seen at the time.
This sucks though. Hang them.
This sucks though. Hang them.
10-24-2017, 03:47 PM
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#96
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So there is a snowball fight at high school amongst 4 kids. A student is walking by, minding their own business and one kid pegs him in the temple, knocking him to the ground and killing him instantly.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
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10-24-2017, 03:47 PM
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#97
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Originally Posted By DoctorKazama⏩
Fuk I'd destroy that, I can feel the test taking control. Give me a name
10-24-2017, 04:05 PM
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#98
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Originally Posted By Frank
this is the dumbest thing I have ever read. They are old enough to know rocks that heavy could seriously injure or even kill someone. They aren't toddlers.They're dumb kids. What makes perfect sense to you doesn't to them.
They didn't set out to murder someone that day, I can assure you that.
They didn't set out to murder someone that day, I can assure you that.
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10-24-2017, 04:11 PM
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#99
10-24-2017, 04:12 PM
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#100
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Originally Posted By AndYUKnowThis⏩
Fuk I'd destroy that, I can feel the test taking control. Give me a name
Taken by a tall blonde frat boy:
10-24-2017, 04:14 PM
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#101
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Lmao@ the news outlets calling those big ass boulders rocks though. Of course they are technically rocks, but most people aren't going to picture 5-20 pound ones at first thought
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10-24-2017, 04:25 PM
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#102
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Originally Posted By Dontneggedme⏩
yes. At 16 you are mature enough to realize this is wrong. The worst we did was throw egg at houses. And we were 13.Like all u guys were perfect angels when u were 16 ? Yes they deserve time in prison but they just kids really. Life hard at that age when u have low self esteem and think when you’re emotions and all u wanna do is fit in they should be given s second chance at life
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10-24-2017, 04:26 PM
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#103
10-24-2017, 04:27 PM
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#104
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Originally Posted By ODBM⏩
Lol hard @ you being exactly what you profess to hate. Proves my point so called "alt-righters" are exactly like SJWs.They were probably inspired by the BLM rioters who threw rocks and bricks off an overpass, trying to hit interstate traffic.
Excuse making, whining, deflection and avoidance.
But but but someone else did _______
No **** retard that's bad too now try and stay on topic.
10-24-2017, 04:28 PM
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#105
10-24-2017, 04:29 PM
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#106
isn't it weird how a lot of people have thrown bricks off bridges, but they get phuck all sentence?
there should be a middle ground sentence for doing completely autistic chit that is likely to kill someone, rather than just punishing people when someone is actually harmed.
there should be a middle ground sentence for doing completely autistic chit that is likely to kill someone, rather than just punishing people when someone is actually harmed.
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10-24-2017, 04:32 PM
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#107
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Originally Posted By CLEAN_SET_OF_10⏩
You're comparing a snowball to a ****ing 20 lb boulder. Let me put it this way: if someone gave you the choice of being hit in the head by your average snowball or having a 20 lb boulder fall on you, which one would you choose?So there is a snowball fight at high school amongst 4 kids. A student is walking by, minding their own business and one kid pegs him in the temple, knocking him to the ground and killing him instantly.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
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10-24-2017, 04:34 PM
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#108
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Originally Posted By Mercworx⏩
BLM comment was unnecessary, but at least in this case justice looks like it's being served.Lol hard @ you being exactly what you profess to hate. Proves my point so called "alt-righters" are exactly like SJWs.
Excuse making, whining, deflection and avoidance.
But but but someone else did _______
No **** retard that's bad too now try and stay on topic.
Excuse making, whining, deflection and avoidance.
But but but someone else did _______
No **** retard that's bad too now try and stay on topic.
BLM rioters (and anyone else doing this kind of chit) should be tried for attempted murder.
10-24-2017, 04:36 PM
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#109
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Originally Posted By CLEAN_SET_OF_10⏩
The difference being the laws of physics. You could throw a hard-AF snow ball at someone's head 500 times and not kill them. Thus there is no reasonable expectation that a snowball could kill them, even if it actually did the one time it was thrown (that's manslaughter). You could throw 6lb rocks at moving cars and kill someone 50% of the time that the rocks actually hit the car. So there is a strong expectation that it would kill. Even a 5 year old understands this. That's murder.So there is a snowball fight at high school amongst 4 kids. A student is walking by, minding their own business and one kid pegs him in the temple, knocking him to the ground and killing him instantly.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
10-24-2017, 04:40 PM
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#110
10-24-2017, 04:46 PM
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#111
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Originally Posted By CLEAN_SET_OF_10⏩
People willingly throw snowballs at each other for FUN. Reckless, maybe, but that is an old past time many have engaged in and it is hardly maliciously. Who the hell drops 20 pound boulders on each other with no expectation to be seriously injured or killed?So there is a snowball fight at high school amongst 4 kids. A student is walking by, minding their own business and one kid pegs him in the temple, knocking him to the ground and killing him instantly.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
Do all the kids throwing snowballs get charged with murder?
There are strict, known rules against throwing snowballs. Snowballs are known to be dangerous and can and have killed people. People walking to and from classes at school can have a reasonable expectation to be safe from getting hit in the head from a snowball.
Just because one kid took it to the next level and aimed for the head of an innocent bystander, perhaps packing the snow harder so it's like ice and making it denser and weigh more, winding up and using more power with their arm doesn't mean the other kids should be charged with murder.
Maybe the other kids threw snowballs at the bystander. Maybe they purposefully missed and maybe they aimed at less lethal spots on the body.
He who chucked it and caused the damage should be responsible.
Just playing devils advocate, but I'm sure there are stricter rules involved with throwing stuff off overpasses, perhaps even a felony, and if you are part of a group where one person commits a felony resulting in someones death, the entire group is culpable ie. getaway driver in a fatal robbery still gets murder even though they didn't kill anyone.
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10-24-2017, 04:50 PM
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#112
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Originally Posted By Layne205⏩
Ok, are all the other kids who were throwing snowballs charged with manslaughter?The difference being the laws of physics. You could throw a hard-AF snow ball at someone's head 500 times and not kill them. Thus there is no reasonable expectation that a snowball could kill them, even if it actually did the one time it was thrown (that's manslaughter). You could throw 6lb rocks at moving cars and kill someone 50% of the time that the rocks actually hit the car. So there is a strong expectation that it would kill. Even a 5 year old understands this. That's murder.
No, not even a 5 year old understands why a whole group is punished for the actions of one person.
I am not arguing with the fact that a murder charge is just in the rock throwing incident, I am arguing that the group should not be punished because one person decided to elevate the risks to the next level by upping the ante with a heavier rock, a harder snowball, aiming for the head, timing for the windshield, etc.
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10-24-2017, 04:57 PM
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#113
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Originally Posted By SweetPetals⏩
The bystander in my example was not a willing particpant.People willingly throw snowballs at each other for FUN. Reckless, maybe, but that is an old past time many have engaged in and it is hardly maliciously. Who the hell drops 20 pound boulders on each other with no expectation to be seriously injured or killed?
Granted you and the other poster above are correct, a snowball hitting you in the head is less likely to cause death than a rock being dropped over an overpass.
But if manslaughter is the charge in my snowball example, and multiple kids threw snowballs at the bystander, but maybe some missed, some were soft, and some didn't aim for the head, should the fact one kid threw harder, packed the snow denser, and aimed for the head mean the entire group should get manslaughter?
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10-24-2017, 05:10 PM
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#114
I bet those boys know which one of them threw the rock that killed the man in the car. Yes, he should face a murder charge, not as an adult though. The rest of them should go up as accessories to the crime.
Young people aren't tried as minors because they somehow don't know that what they are doing is wrong. It is supposed to be because their brain isn't fully developed and doesn't function at a mature level. Now it looks like the brain doesn't fully mature until 25, but socially that is a big problem since ages 16 - 21 are used for legal rights related to adulthood.
Young people aren't tried as minors because they somehow don't know that what they are doing is wrong. It is supposed to be because their brain isn't fully developed and doesn't function at a mature level. Now it looks like the brain doesn't fully mature until 25, but socially that is a big problem since ages 16 - 21 are used for legal rights related to adulthood.
During your teens and early twenties you are more or less in the last phase of development. The last areas to mature are the frontal areas. The ones we use for executive functions like planning, inhibition, reasoning, and problem solving. It’s like everything is ready, except the part that is supposed to keep it all in check, which is why we see such interesting behavior in teenagers.
A good example is that teenagers/adolescents rely more on their emotional areas when making decisions or interpretations. They are swayed more by their peers, wanting approval, seeking sensation. Combine that with less developed planning and reasoning, and we get some typical teen behavior.
A good example is that teenagers/adolescents rely more on their emotional areas when making decisions or interpretations. They are swayed more by their peers, wanting approval, seeking sensation. Combine that with less developed planning and reasoning, and we get some typical teen behavior.
Although brain development is subject to significant individual variation, most experts suggest that the brain is fully developed by age 25. For some people, brain development may be complete prior to age 25, while for others it may end after age 25. The mid-20s or “25” is just an average age given as checkpoint for when the brain has likely become mature.
Decision making: We often struggle to make good decisions when we are teenagers, but as we enter our 20s, our decision making improves. This is due to the fact that our prefrontal cortex helps us think logically and make more calculated assessments of situations. Our brain weighs the risks and tells us whether a certain behavior or choice is a good idea vs. a bad one.
Impulse control: Struggling with impulsivity is often related to deficits in the prefrontal cortex. The ability to maintain self-discipline and avoid impulsive behaviors hasn’t reached its peak until the 20s. This means that if you struggle with impulsivity when you’re 18, it may get better as you continue to age.
Logical thinking: Justifying behaviors based off of emotions rather than logic is common among teens. When the prefrontal cortex fully develops, logical thinking simultaneously improves. This means you will be better at rationalizing and making smarter choices. It also means that your ability to write and solve math problems will improve.
Impulse control: Struggling with impulsivity is often related to deficits in the prefrontal cortex. The ability to maintain self-discipline and avoid impulsive behaviors hasn’t reached its peak until the 20s. This means that if you struggle with impulsivity when you’re 18, it may get better as you continue to age.
Logical thinking: Justifying behaviors based off of emotions rather than logic is common among teens. When the prefrontal cortex fully develops, logical thinking simultaneously improves. This means you will be better at rationalizing and making smarter choices. It also means that your ability to write and solve math problems will improve.
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10-24-2017, 05:10 PM
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#115
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Originally Posted By CLEAN_SET_OF_10⏩
That isn't what happened. They had already thrown rocks up to 20lbs, they just missed. All participants were apparently engaging in the same activity at a place they went together, to do the activity together. If one claims he threw no rocks at all, and the others back him up, his charges would probably be dropped. But participating at all shares the responsibility for the consequences, just like the hypothetical robbery getaway driver mentioned earlier.I am arguing that the group should not be punished because one person decided to elevate the risks to the next level by upping the ante with a heavier rock, a harder snowball, aiming for the head, timing for the windshield, etc.
Edit: State laws probably vary, but I think the tipping point is that they were engaged in an ILLEGAL activity together. If you go to the shooting range with some buddies and accidentally kill someone, you may face manslaughter charges, but your buddies will not. If you all rob someone together and you accidentally kill someone, you will ALL be charged.
10-24-2017, 05:11 PM
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#116
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Apparantly this has already happened in Pennsylvania pretty much the exact same sitation except the kids were much older and they just got a slap on the wrist
The victim ended up being paralyzed and took his own life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters..._rock_throwing
There's no fixing "kids" like this. send them to the chair
The victim ended up being paralyzed and took his own life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters..._rock_throwing
There's no fixing "kids" like this. send them to the chair
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10-24-2017, 05:14 PM
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#117
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someone should sue the car company for not installing avalanche proof windshields
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10-24-2017, 05:17 PM
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#118
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Originally Posted By Layne205⏩
Ok that sounds reasonable.That isn't what happened. They had already thrown rocks up to 20lbs, they just missed. All participants were apparently engaging in the same activity at a place they went together, to do the activity together. If one claims he threw no rocks at all, and the others back him up, his charges would probably be dropped. But participating at all shares the responsibility for the consequences, just like the hypothetical robbery getaway driver mentioned earlier.
Edit: State laws probably vary, but I think the tipping point is that they were engaged in an ILLEGAL activity together.
Edit: State laws probably vary, but I think the tipping point is that they were engaged in an ILLEGAL activity together.
Do you think it's reasonable that other kids throwing snowballs at bystanders all be given manslaughter charges because one kid killed a bystander with a snowball?
I don't.. and throwing snowballs at bystanders unprovoked is an illegal activity (assault).
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10-24-2017, 05:20 PM
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#119
10-24-2017, 05:27 PM
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#120
- Layne205
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- Layne205
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- Join Date: Sep 2015
- Age: 42
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Originally Posted By CLEAN_SET_OF_10⏩
Maybe it has to be a felony illegal activity for the group punishment to apply. Again though, the snowball death is a freak accident, so it's a useless parallel. I'll turn it around on you this way though, if a group of friends rape your mom, but one of them only watches, should he also be punished?Ok that sounds reasonable.
Do you think it's reasonable that other kids throwing snowballs at bystanders all be given manslaughter charges because one kid killed a bystander with a snowball?
I don't.. and throwing snowballs at bystanders unprovoked is an illegal activity (assault).
Do you think it's reasonable that other kids throwing snowballs at bystanders all be given manslaughter charges because one kid killed a bystander with a snowball?
I don't.. and throwing snowballs at bystanders unprovoked is an illegal activity (assault).
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