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Forum » Universal Basic Income Explained Clearly
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Thread: Universal Basic Income Explained Clearly

post 1537013251 12-09-2017, 01:01 PM
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Universal Basic Income Explained Clearly



And of course, the GOAT of economics preaching an logical way of applying a variation of universal basic income via a negative tax system.


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post 1537013381 12-09-2017, 01:03 PM
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we will eventually need a basic income. the top 1% can easily pay for it too.
post 1537013421 12-09-2017, 01:03 PM
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Literally just watched this last night. Kurzesagt is a great and informative channel. Good post.
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post 1537013521 12-09-2017, 01:04 PM
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I think we'll ultimately need a universal basic income, but the potential for abuse with it ****ing scares me.

"Implant this RFID chip so we can track you 24/7."

"No."

"We're taking your basic income."
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post 1537013601 12-09-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted By FA*******⏩
I think we'll ultimately need a universal basic income, but the potential for abuse with it ****ing scares me.

"Implant this RFID chip so we can track you 24/7."

"No."

"We're taking your basic income."
Not a big fan of the 'slippery slope' argument. Do you think RFID chips will take off?
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post 1537013751 12-09-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
Not a big fan of the 'slippery slope' argument. Do you think RFID chips will take off?
Within the 2-3 generations it will take to get universal basic income off the ground? Absolutely.

But looking at the bigger picture, is that giving the govt the sole means of income over say 90% of the population gives them a scary amount of leverage.
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post 1537014321 12-09-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted By FA*******⏩
Within the 2-3 generations it will take to get universal basic income off the ground? Absolutely.

But looking at the bigger picture, is that giving the govt the sole means of income over say 90% of the population gives them a scary amount of leverage.
I think I am just being naive about this whole thing. I doubt RFID chips will become a thing. I have not read anything or seen anything that has convinced me they will. But I remain open minded about it.

You are right about that much government control. I heard the term politics once defined as: "deciding who gets what resources, when and how." Which makes sense.

Not to be cliche, but in order to prevent government over reach and corruption, regardless of how reliant as a society we are on the government, we need to make sure that we remain informed, and actively engaged.

The people in political power are no different than you or I, other than they exploited those two concepts. Things that we are all capable of.
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post 1537014651 12-09-2017, 01:21 PM
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This is literally communism.

Communism doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work.

Give a monkey free bananas and it will get fat, lazy, depressed, and dependant unable to take care of itself.

Fuk you commie bastards.
post 1537014661 12-09-2017, 01:21 PM
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RFID chips? You mean SIM cards in cell phones? The plan changed, they don't need to surgically install them into your wrist. They have GPS tracking on your phone. And of course the good ol' rumors of chips in state drivers licenses.
Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
This is literally communism.

Communism doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work.

Give a monkey free bananas and it will get fat, lazy, depressed, and dependant unable to take care of itself.

Fuk you commie bastards.
Yea but the 40 - 72 hour work week is over the top as hell. There's no way society still necessitates the majority of the population living to work anymore. Technology renders debt servitude irrelevant. If wages had risen with the cost of living and productivity, things would be a fuk of a lot better than they are now.
post 1537015101 12-09-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
This is literally communism.

Communism doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work.

Give a monkey free bananas and it will get fat, lazy, depressed, and dependant unable to take care of itself.

Fuk you commie bastards.
First of all, take your meds bro.

Really poor analogy.
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post 1537015221 12-09-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted By FA*******⏩
Within the 2-3 generations it will take to get universal basic income off the ground? Absolutely.

But looking at the bigger picture, is that giving the govt the sole means of income over say 90% of the population gives them a scary amount of leverage.
As complacent and ill-informed the current population is today regarding their privacy, and freedoms, I think we are an incredible ways away from RFID chips being common place, and accepted by the masses. There are some things that will simply get too much blow back from the general populace, and the American population is not yet that fearful and irrational when it comes to whatever the fuk they deem reasonable threats. Of course, that's subject to change the way fear mongering continues.

Regarding too much government leverage...yes, it may be a problem. I suppose I am naive in this, but why vote for a government you're fearful about, and mistrust. I suppose I'm of the mindset that if you vote for your particular elected representatives, deal with the consequences of your actions. And if you didn't vote for said persons, well, get to work instituting the changes that need to happen through the appropriate means; i.e. vote accordingly.

Either way, a negative income tax is a means to transition lower income families/people, and eliminate the poverty line, and do away with resource depleting, and socially destructive systems like welfare. The goal would be that fewer and fewer people will eventually need to rely on such systems, and leverage and power will become less and less of an issue. Of course, this is in an ideal world.
Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
This is literally communism.

Communism doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work.

Give a monkey free bananas and it will get fat, lazy, depressed, and dependant unable to take care of itself.

Fuk you commie bastards.
I guess you didn't watch the videos.

Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
RFID chips? You mean SIM cards in cell phones? The plan changed, they don't need to surgically install them into your wrist. They have GPS tracking on your phone. And of course the good ol' rumors of chips in state drivers licenses.



Yea but the 40 - 72 hour work week is over the top as hell. There's no way society still necessitates the majority of the population living to work anymore. Technology renders debt servitude irrelevant. If wages had risen with the cost of living and productivity, things would be a fuk of a lot better than they are now.
Completely agree with the later points. I imagine as automation continues to take its hold, this fact will become much more apparent
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post 1537015461 12-09-2017, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
Yea but the 40 - 72 hour work week is over the top as hell. There's no way society still necessitates the majority of the population living to work anymore. Technology renders debt servitude irrelevant. If wages had risen with the cost of living and productivity, things would be a fuk of a lot better than they are now.
That's the kinda entitled attitude I would expect from a supporter of this idea. Your income is directly based off the value you bring. If you work 72 hours in a week and only make $1000 then increase the value you give to others. I work ~5 hours a week and make 10k+ a month. Nobody forces you to work 40-72 hours a week in a free country. You chose that, work smarter not harder.
post 1537015971 12-09-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
That's the kinda entitled attitude I would expect from a supporter of this idea. Your income is directly based off the value you bring. If you work 72 hours in a week and only make $1000 then increase the value you give to others. I work ~5 hours a week and make 10k+ a month. Nobody forces you to work 40-72 hours a week in a free country. You chose that, work smarter not harder.
literal misc stats.
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post 1537016251 12-09-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted By JackTheMiscer⏩
we will eventually need a basic income. the top 1% can easily pay for it too.
The top 1% already pay more in taxes than any other group by a wide margin. Stop demonizing the wealthy and trying to steal from them.
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post 1537016331 12-09-2017, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted By whitepaper⏩
That's a pretty convincing video.

However, it's naive to think people just need a 'chance' to drag themselves out of poverty. You can't fix laziness and self-destructive behavior by throwing money at it. The issue is stopping them from spending the money on illegal chit like drugs/gambling. It has to go back into the economy.

Welfare systems in most counties are full of absolute bullchit, I do like the idea of cleaning it up by giving everyone just enough money to not die and let them get on with it. I think it would benefit a lot of people.
Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
That's the kinda entitled attitude I would expect from a supporter of this idea. Your income is directly based off the value you bring. If you work 72 hours in a week and only make $1000 then increase the value you give to others. I work ~5 hours a week and make 10k+ a month. Nobody forces you to work 40-72 hours a week in a free country. You chose that, work smarter not harder.
m8, we're living in new times. We have a generation of people brainwashed by leftist institutions. They believe everyone is oppressed by the rich and are hell-bent on bringing the whole system down. Keeping the peace is a legitimate worry. As the wealth gap widens, this will only get worse. I hate the idea of taking someone's chit and giving it to someone else as much as you, but this is the reality we're living in.

Plus, welfare already exists..
post 1537016661 12-09-2017, 01:50 PM
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Why would 90% of the population willingly become poverty proletariats for a ruling 10% class?

Can't believe how many people are wanting this.

Yeah in comes a cashless society, then comes UBI, then comes the negative interest rates so people spend their money so they don't lose it, then your UBI fortnightly funds get an expiry date, then comes the government switching off your UBI if you do something they don't like.

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post 1537016841 12-09-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Bar182⏩
Can't believe how many people are wanting this."
You can't believe how many lazy liberal ****s want free ****?
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post 1537017041 12-09-2017, 01:55 PM
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No mention of the alternative? What do you scholars think will happen once automation takes every lower and middle class (aka 100% of miscers) job? Go visit Brazil or any other craphole country with a huge wealth gap.


There will be a tiny class of ultra wealthy (not you) and everyone else will live like this:
post 1537017071 12-09-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Bar182⏩
Why would 90% of the population willingly become poverty proletariats for a ruling 10% class?

Can't believe how many people are wanting this.

Yeah in comes a cashless society, then comes UBI, then comes the negative interest rates so people spend their money so they don't lose it, then your UBI fortnightly funds get an expiry date, then comes the government switching off your UBI if you do something they don't like.

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever."
Because the majority of people are lazy, followers, and low IQ. They can not compete in a free market and so they want to take from the producers. They do not even realize that this will just cause depression rates, suicide, drug addiction, ect problems through the roof as it will rob the masses of their incentive, and they will lose purpose and motivation in life.
post 1537017131 12-09-2017, 01:56 PM
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Universal income is literally the anti-thesis of American values and a capitalistic republic. America didn't become the most prosperous country in the history of civilization by giving handouts.

Since the dawn of man, the concept of you work or you don't eat has been the driving force for innovation and community participation to cause a group to live life as best as possible.

Removing any incentive to work will never result in a better society. Survival of the fittest and survival of those who put in effort is the law of the universe.

I live in the handout capital of the US, east Los Angeles. Everywhere I see illegal immigrants who just sit around all day smoking weed with their 3 anchor babies collecting checks without even the slightest desire to improve themselves or ever work. Why would they? The moment you start giving away things for free is the moment every poor human being from around the world comes to leach the system.

There are almost 7 billion people in the world. Not everyone is meant to be equal.
post 1537017191 12-09-2017, 01:56 PM
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Take away social welfare programs and put money in my pockets sounds good to me. $1k basic income or less only if you work and apply work credits for a massive payout if you choose to accumlate over x amount of years. brb payout tax free in 30yrs. brb payout for house downpayment.

Def not quitting my job for basic income.
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post 1537017281 12-09-2017, 01:58 PM
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Where does the money come from? If it comes through higher taxes on companies then they would absolutely seek to make up the lost revenue through higher prices for consumers, especially if they knew billions of dollars of disposable income were being pumped into the economy each month.

We’ve spent over twenty Trillion dollars fighting a “war on poverty” and only made things worse. Are these the people we trust to implement a UBI? The world is ran by governments and corporations, which ultimately seek to strengthen themselves. If you think anything would get passed that doesn’t serve that goal first and foremost you’re being extremely naive.
post 1537017371 12-09-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted By thugonomics⏩
Universal income is literally the anti-thesis of American values and a capitalistic republic. America didn't become the most prosperous country in the history of civilization by giving handouts.

Since the dawn of man, the concept of you work or you don't eat has been the driving force for innovation and community participation to cause a group to live life as best as possible.

Removing any incentive to work will never result in a better society. Survival of the fittest and survival of those who put in effort is the law of the universe.

I live in the handout capital of the US, east Los Angeles. Everywhere I see illegal immigrants who just sit around all day smoking weed with their 3 anchor babies collecting checks without even the slightest desire to improve themselves or ever work. Why would they? The moment you start giving away things for free is the moment every poor human being from around the world comes to leach the system.

There are almost 7 billion people in the world. Not everyone is meant to be equal.
Exactly. These millennials are spoiled rotten. Want everything free, everything to be "equal". Trying to make unequal things equal causes the greatest inequality. Want to steal from the producers at gunpoint, while having to contribute no value to others, literal parasites. In a free market, the natural order of things, these commies would have died out, leaving their poverty genetics with them. The welfare state allows them to keep multiplying.

Instead of UBI, how about instead completely eliminate all welfare programs, food stamps, the IRS, ect. If you're lazy, or incompetent then we don't want you around. Give value or go away. No parasites.
post 1537017601 12-09-2017, 02:03 PM
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Darwinism needs to be allowed. People need to be free to fail. It's nobody else's fault if you're a dumb, lazy fukc.
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post 1537017771 12-09-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
Exactly. These millennials are spoiled rotten. Want everything free, everything to be "equal". Trying to make unequal things equal causes the greatest inequality. Want to steal from the producers at gunpoint, while having to contribute no value to others, literal parasites. In a free market, the natural order of things, these parasites would have died out, leaving their poverty genetics with them. The welfare state allows them to keep multiplying.

Instead of UBI, how about instead completely eliminate all welfare programs, food stamps, the IRS, ect. If you're lazy, or incompetent then we don't want you around. Give value or go away. No parasites.
We are at an inflection point since the economy is now global. If we don't want to compete with China and India in a race to the bottom, we have to figure out a new approach. It's not political, it's simple economics. Again, YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE RULING CLASS. The dumb chit you are spouting is the exact same things that the 1% will say about you. Ironic.
post 1537018121 12-09-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
We are at an inflection point since the economy is now global. If we don't want to compete with China and India in a race to the bottom, we have to figure out a new approach. It's not political, it's simple economics. Again, YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE RULING CLASS. The dumb chit you are spouting is the exact same things that the 1% will say about you. Ironic.
The ruling class ARE THE ONES PUSHING FOR UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME!! People like Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros, Angela Merkel are the ones going on and on about UBI. Think about the big picture. These elite politicians and billionaires want nothing more than to consolidate their power even more and have a population completely dependant on their poverty 12k a year that they completely control.

And it is literally communism with a different name. They know communism has a 100+ year history of death, destruction, and failure; so they just gave it a new fancy name and now the same parasites support it...
post 1537018451 12-09-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted By Gainzzz⏩
That's a pretty convincing video.

However, it's naive to think people just need a 'chance' to drag themselves out of poverty. You can't fix laziness and self-destructive behavior by throwing money at it. The issue is stopping them from spending the money on illegal chit like drugs/gambling. It has to go back into the economy.

Welfare systems in most counties are full of absolute bullchit, I do like the idea of cleaning it up by giving everyone just enough money to not die and let them get on with it. I think it would benefit a lot of people.
Hence the second video.

Welfare doesn't work given that it incentivises people to not work, and punishes them for making progress.

The negative income tax deals with that appropriately.
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post 1537018481 12-09-2017, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
The ruling class ARE THE ONES PUSHING FOR UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME!! People like Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros, Angela Merkel are the ones going on and on about UBI. Think about the big picture. These elite politicians and billionaires want nothing more than to consolidate their power even more and have a population completely dependant on their poverty 12k a year that they completely control.

And it is literally communism with a different name. They know communism has a 100+ year history of death, destruction, and failure; so they just gave it a new fancy name and now the same parasites support it...
you have not taken your meds yet.
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post 1537018681 12-09-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
you have not taken your meds yet.
Wasn't clever the first time, you thought this ad hominem was so brilliant you had to repeat it?

If you want to be respected direct your criticism at my position, make a logical rebuttal...
post 1537018841 12-09-2017, 02:21 PM
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#30
  1. tsunami2012
  2. Registered Wisconsin Brah
  1. tsunami2012
  2. Registered Wisconsin Brah
  3. Join Date: Jan 2010
  4. Location: Wisconsin, United States
  5. Posts: 1,091
  6. Rep Power: 2778
Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
The ruling class ARE THE ONES PUSHING FOR UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME!! People like Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros, Angela Merkel are the ones going on and on about UBI. Think about the big picture. These elite politicians and billionaires want nothing more than to consolidate their power even more and have a population completely dependant on their poverty 12k a year that they completely control.

And it is literally communism with a different name. They know communism has a 100+ year history of death, destruction, and failure; so they just gave it a new fancy name and now the same parasites support it...
^^ This exactly.
These same elites continuously try to sell communism under new names. The endgame is always the same. The more dependent we are on the government, the more power they have over us. And history tells us that trusting the government with that type of power is a recipe for disaster.
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