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Forum ยป GOP unveils final $1.5T tax plan
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Thread: GOP unveils final $1.5T tax plan

post 1537732881 12-16-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By moksha16⏩
wrong

individuals don't have tax rates... nowhere in the tax code will you see any peoples names

dollars have a tax rate people don't.

every single person in the country is under the same law and pays the exact same rate on the same dollars earned.

You want the guy that wants to have a Ferrari to pay less just because the guy that has a pinto paid less.

The guy that has the dollars to have a Ferrari has a better car, goes faster and gets more pussy.. so he pays more for it.

If he only wanted the dollars to buy a pinto he'd pay less.

If you benefit from society more then you pay more. ... unless you are a ball slurping conservative then you do it on the backs of the middle class and future generations.
Another moronic post by our resident dumbest lib

Newsflash the middle class is conservative
post 1537756621 12-17-2017, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted By moksha16⏩
Its cute how conservatives pretend to be fiscally responsible while blowing up the debt everytime they get in power just to make rich guys richer.
Trying to rewrite history doesn't work when everyone has access to the history... The last time Republicans were in control of Congress and the White House, deficits steadilydecreasedto a low of $160 Billion. Two years later, under a Democrat Congress, the deficit had exploded to $1,400 Billion... and remained above $1,000 Billion/year for four years of a Democrat Congress which included two years of a Democrat President.

Funny that you need to blame "conservatives" for the results of Pelosi-Reid-Obama

$1,000+ Billionactualannual deficits under Democrats... blame "conservatives".
Projected$150 Billion average annual deficit increase under a tax cut plan...claim the debt will blow up!

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/
post 1537756761 12-17-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted By moksha16⏩
People doing the best literally by definition do not make out worse.. by letting them do even better and putting abigger burden on the middle class
Originally Posted By markUK1⏩
Making the rich richerAnd the poor poorer
Originally Posted By VinnyPazRules⏩
Absolutely, Big business's can only make thier fortunesoff the backs of the lower classes.
Please explain why you believeLOWER TAXESare a "burden", or how payingLOWER TAXESmakes someone "poorer", or how a business makes a fortune off the back of someone else who's payingLOWER TAXES...

Maybe even do it without crying about what someone else makes or pays in taxes
post 1537756921 12-17-2017, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted By stillbored⏩
Guess I am a bit confused, can I write my State tax off or not?
Up to $10,000 deduction for state income+property taxes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...eek/956580001/
post 1537757331 12-17-2017, 06:39 AM
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Keep in mind that to deduct/itemize anything you need to have deductions in excess of the standard deduction.
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post 1537757491 12-17-2017, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted By GhenghisPWN⏩
Always thought it was odd that Republicans try to own the insult of "elite" and play themselves as the treaded on common man, yet they commonly dive on grenades for billionaire donors and call us stupid or say we're useless because we don't grow crops or drive a tractor trailer.

All the while blue states carry a majority of the US economy.

I've said this before, but Republicans are masters at word play and propaganda. Their marketing guys deserve blow jobs for life. They use the donor base who only care about fiscal issues to raise money, and a working class base who care mostly about social issues to raise votes. Pretty amazing balancing act to use two opposing sides to gain and keep power.
There are billionaire donors puppeteering our politicians on both sides. I don't think our interest are their concern whatsoever.
post 1537757721 12-17-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
There are billionaire donors puppeteering our politicians on both sides. I don't think our interest are their concern whatsoever.
This is exactly right. The corporate elite who run our country only throw us enough scraps to keep us from getting too far out of line. Sowing political discourse between right and left is a great way to keep us distracted. And of course we willingly oblige them.
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post 1537758121 12-17-2017, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted By nutsy54⏩
Up to $10,000 deduction for state income+property taxes.
As a Canadian, I assume that is more than enough for most middle-class New Yorkers and Californians, no? Who will the $10,000 cap hurt? At what income level will you start to feel that?

This cap is one of the best aspects of the entire bill... although I think it would have needed to be lower to have a significant effect on curbing high state taxes.
post 1537758301 12-17-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted By QuitYourCrying⏩
As a Canadian, I assume that is more than enough for most middle-class New Yorkers and Californians, no? Who will the $10,000 cap hurt? At what income level will you start to feel that?

This cap is one of the best aspects of the entire bill... although I think it would have needed to be lower to have a significant effect on curbing high state taxes.
It's the fed's job to curb high tax states? What if the residents of those states prefer a higher level of education and services that come from the higher taxes?
Early AM workout crew.
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post 1537758331 12-17-2017, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted By QuitYourCrying⏩
As a Canadian, I assume that is more than enough for most middle-class New Yorkers and Californians, no? Who will the $10,000 cap hurt? At what income level will you start to feel that?

This cap is one of the best aspects of the entire bill... although I think it would have needed to be lower to have a significant effect on curbing high state taxes.
New York & California (just for a few) have insane state taxes - maybe now the voters will actually pay attention to their out of control state governments
https://www.kiplinger.com/tool/taxes...-map/index.php

Meanwhile, the liberals and Democrats ranting about how much this bill benefits "rich rich" will completely ignore provisions such as this one, which is the exact opposite of benefiting "the rich".
post 1537758411 12-17-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted By nutsy54⏩
New York & California (just for a few) have insane state taxes - maybe now the voters will actually pay attention to their out of control state governments
https://www.kiplinger.com/tool/taxes...-map/index.php

Meanwhile, the liberals and Democrats ranting about how much this bill benefits "rich rich" will completely ignore provisions such as this one, which is the exact opposite of benefiting "the rich".
Nutso, who benefits the most from this bill from a % and total dollars saved basis, the middle class or the 1%?
Early AM workout crew.
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post 1537758511 12-17-2017, 07:11 AM
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#102
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
It's the fed's job to curb high tax states?
Nope. Nor is it the fed's job to subsidize & partially offset those state taxes
What if the residents of those states prefer a higher level of education and services that come from the higher taxes?
Pay up without expecting a federal tax cut.
post 1537758601 12-17-2017, 07:12 AM
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#103
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
Nutso, who benefits the most from this bill from a % and total dollars saved basis, the middle class or the 1%?
Why does that matter? It has nothing to do with any of my posts, or the question I was answering.

Why do some people need to play the game of Greed, Envy, and Class Warfare?Derp - My taxes are going down, but I'm gonna cry about what someone else might pay instead!
post 1537758651 12-17-2017, 07:14 AM
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Anyone know if they changed the estate tax stuff in this final version?
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post 1537758721 12-17-2017, 07:16 AM
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#105
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Originally Posted By iifymbro⏩
Anyone know if they changed the estate tax stuff in this final version?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...eek/956580001/

Estate tax
Exemption is doubled so no estate worth less than nearly $11 million would be taxed.
post 1537758771 12-17-2017, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
It's the fed's job to curb high tax states? What if the residents of those states prefer a higher level of education and services that come from the higher taxes?
Then they are free to live there and pay the state taxes, the REAL ones. Not ones roundabout subsidized by the federal government.
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post 1537759071 12-17-2017, 07:22 AM
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#107
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Originally Posted By nutsy54⏩
Why does that matter? It has nothing to do with any of my posts, or the question I was answering.

Why do some people need to play the game of Greed, Envy, and Class Warfare?Derp - My taxes are going down, but I'm gonna cry about what someone else might pay instead!
This bill has been classified as a middle class tax cut. When in fact the bill disproportionately reduces the taxes of the 1%. So while the middle class will get a modest tax cut, referring to the bill by this moniker is intellectually dishonest. It should be called a tax cut largely for the rich which will also benefit the middle class but to a much lower extent. That'd be much more accurate.
Early AM workout crew.
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post 1537759181 12-17-2017, 07:24 AM
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#108
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Originally Posted By iifymbro⏩
Then they are free to live there and pay the state taxes, the REAL ones. Not ones roundabout subsidized by the federal government.
So why not get rid of all activities subsidized by the federal government then? Why give child credits, charity deductions, or anything else? People choose to do these things and there's no hard cap on them like there is now on state and local taxes.
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post 1537759321 12-17-2017, 07:26 AM
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This tax policy is hilarious. It's about time that the country is not forced to subsidize the state taxes of the urban affluent. Unfortunately, I don't think this goes far enough. On the flip size, the cutting of corporate taxes is silly if we're not going to make sure large companies aren't double dipping by selling to americans but claiming their losses here, but keeping their profits in other countries.

If we're going to get production to come back here, we have to level the playing field.
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post 1537759771 12-17-2017, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
So why not get rid of allactivities subsidized by the federal government then? Why give child credits, charity deductions, or anything else? People choose to do these things and there's no hard cap on them like there is now on state and local taxes.
So because we altered one thing we should just get rid of everything? Strong logic and reasoning. States like Cali and NY have to get their budgets and expenses under control, they won't do it so long as the fed keeps enabling them so it's tough love now.
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post 1537760041 12-17-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted By iifymbro⏩
So because we altered one thing we should just get rid of everything? Strong logic and reasoning. States like Cali and NY have to get their budgets and expenses under control, they won't do it so long as the fed keeps enabling them so it's tough love now.
You do realize that because of services that state's provide, the feds don't need to spend as much money on those services, yes? So in effect state taxes actually OFFSET spending the feds would incur where it not for the states.

Having kids, giving to charity not so much.
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post 1537760071 12-17-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
This bill has been classified as a middle class tax cut. When in fact the bill disproportionately reduces the taxes of the 1%. So while the middle class will get a modest tax cut, referring to the bill by this moniker is intellectually dishonest. It should be called a tax cut largely for the rich which will also benefit the middle class but to a much lower extent. That'd be much more accurate.
That's because the 1% pay a chitload of taxes, any tiny adjustment you make to their rates will naturally result in a big dollar value vs the people making under 70k a year who barely pay anything in the first place. I don't know why people outside the 1% give a fuk if those people get a little cut if they're getting a bigger one, just mind your own business and look after yourself.
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post 1537760321 12-17-2017, 07:42 AM
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#113
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Originally Posted By iifymbro⏩
That's because the 1% pay a chitload of taxes, any tiny adjustment you make to their rates will naturally result in a big dollar value vs the people making under 70k a year who barely pay anything in the first place. I don't know why people outside the 1% give a fuk if those people get a little cut if they're getting a bigger one, just mind your own business and look after yourself.
That's all true. That's why this bill should not have the moniker of a middle class tax cut when in fact the middle class sees the least amount of tax cuts. That's all I'm saying. And full disclosure, because my house is getting near paid, I'll actually benefit from the increased standard deduction even with relatively high state and local taxes. I'll just have to adjust my charity giving to stay below the standard deduction since there's no incentive for me to give more now.
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post 1537760411 12-17-2017, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
You do realize that because of services that state's provide, the feds don't need to spend as much money on those services, yes? So in effect state taxes actually OFFSET spending the feds would incur where it not for the states.

Having kids, giving to charity not so much.
What services are Cali and NY providing that warrant their taxes being so high compared to other states?
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post 1537760481 12-17-2017, 07:44 AM
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#115
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
That's all true. That's why this bill should not have the moniker of a middle class tax cut when in fact the middle class seesthe least amount of tax cuts. That's all I'm saying. And full disclosure, because my house is getting near paid, I'll actually benefit from the increased standard deduction even with relatively high state and local taxes. I'll just have to adjust my charity giving to stay below the standard deduction since there's no incentive for me to give more now.
You keep using vague terminology like "amount". Are you talking about the rate or the total dollar value? Because I'm pretty sure the middle class are getting a bigger rate cut then the 1% in this bill, plus the standard deduction is doubling.
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post 1537760811 12-17-2017, 07:49 AM
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#116
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Originally Posted By iifymbro⏩
You keep using vague terminology like "amount". Are you talking about the rate or the total dollar value? Because I'm pretty sure the middle class are getting a bigger rate cut then the 1% in this bill, plus the standard deduction is doubling.
I'm referring to total dollars saved. The group saving the most total dollars is the group that benefits the most.
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post 1537764061 12-17-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
This bill has been classified as a middle class tax cut. When in fact the bill disproportionately reduces the taxes of the 1%.
Cliff: The segment which pays far more than anyone else, supposedly sees bigger decreases than anyone else... That's some basic math.
PS: What are theactualcomparisons in terms of percentage tax cuts? Especially since "the rich" will get thrashed by limited property/state tax deductions... Who's made a complete analysis of the final bill against multiple incomes?
Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
I'm referring to total dollars saved. The group saving the most total dollars is the group that benefits the most.
The top 1% pay 50% of all federal income tax dollars - of course they'll see a significant dollar change for any tax rate change.
https://taxfoundation.org/summary-la...a-2016-update/
So while the middle class will get a modest tax cut, referring to the bill by this moniker is intellectually dishonest.
Since I've never called it that, not sure why you expect me to defend or justify that term
post 1537764141 12-17-2017, 08:42 AM
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#118
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
So why not get rid of all activities subsidized by the federal government then? Why give child credits, charity deductions, or anything else? People choose to do these things and there's no hard cap on them like there is now on state and local taxes.
Exactly. Now you're catching on. Federal income tax should exist to generate revenue for required federal government operations,notto manipulate how people live their lives, buy cars, have kids, go into debt, or anything else.
post 1537764211 12-17-2017, 08:43 AM
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#119
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
You do realize that because of services that state's provide, the feds don't need to spend as much money on those services, yes?
You (and Congress) need to review the 10th Amendment...
post 1537764271 12-17-2017, 08:44 AM
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The "middle class" cut portion comes from the child credit increase which is a much more significant cut by percentage of income for the middle class than it is for the high income earners. I'm not defending either, but that's where it comes from.
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