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Property is NOT how you make money..srs
01-13-2018, 08:32 AM
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#151
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Originally Posted By milesgiles1⏩
You mad I can get infinite returns if I leverage debt properly?A moderately successful small business or side hustle is going to return a lot more than 10% if it's at all scaleable.
Will look up long term average property price rises when not on mobile. Think in the uk it's probably in the 6-7% range over 40 years, and probably less in the States. For an average guy on an average salary, that isn't going to make you rich. Comfortable yes, but not rich.
Will look up long term average property price rises when not on mobile. Think in the uk it's probably in the 6-7% range over 40 years, and probably less in the States. For an average guy on an average salary, that isn't going to make you rich. Comfortable yes, but not rich.
Yeh you mad
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01-13-2018, 08:36 AM
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#152
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Originally Posted By the700level⏩
The amount of debt anyone reputable would lend you is usually a multiple of your salary, which in your case I'm pretty sure isn't infinite.You mad I can get infinite returns if I leverage debt properly?
Yeh you mad
Yeh you mad
So that's drivel isn't it.
01-13-2018, 09:11 AM
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#153
01-13-2018, 09:41 AM
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#154
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I saved like a dog and bought my first house outright. Now each month I am saving £500 plus per month rental, that alone is making things easier. Once I have finished renovating the property I will start saving for a large mortgage payment on a property that needs work or buy outright again. I highly recommend you doing this if it's viable with your financial situation.
I have one friend who did a house up to live in while renting 3 rooms in the property. That has given him a lot of equity, so I wouldn't write off property because it's a money maker.
Also, I agree with OP, Corbyn wants a rental state where landlords are punished.
I have one friend who did a house up to live in while renting 3 rooms in the property. That has given him a lot of equity, so I wouldn't write off property because it's a money maker.
Also, I agree with OP, Corbyn wants a rental state where landlords are punished.
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01-13-2018, 10:04 AM
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To put things in perspective, here are some stats about the costs of running my 4 bedroom house in Ontario:
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
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01-13-2018, 11:24 AM
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#156
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Originally Posted By MidnightSun⏩
What do you mean by running? Are you renting out or simply living in that house?To put things in perspective, here are some stats about the costs ofrunning my 4 bedroom house in Ontario:
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
how can she neg... HOW CAN SHE NEG!!! HOW?!
01-13-2018, 11:26 AM
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#157
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It's easy to make money in real estate
01-13-2018, 11:54 AM
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#158
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Originally Posted By getbig_ttt⏩
I am living in that house.What do you mean by running? Are you renting out or simply living in that house?
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01-13-2018, 12:23 PM
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#159
Originally Posted By MidnightSun⏩
While I agree with you, the location of rental property drastically changes ones perspective/view. Those who have posted who actually do have rental properties seem to be managing them pretty well. pulling contingency money out of your rents every month is an absolute no brainer.To put things in perspective, here are some stats about the costs of running my 4 bedroom house in Ontario:
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
01-13-2018, 12:50 PM
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#160
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Originally Posted By milesgiles1⏩
So you’re talking about traditional mortgage lendingThe amount of debt anyone reputable would lend you is usually a multiple of your salary, which in your case I'm pretty sure isn't infinite.
So that's drivel isn't it.
So that's drivel isn't it.
No.
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01-13-2018, 12:59 PM
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#161
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I never once was happy paying rent, and getting nothing out of it myself. That enough is reason to buy a property. brb being told to move after lease or rent goes up.
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01-13-2018, 01:06 PM
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#162
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Originally Posted By FreedomPenguin⏩
You definitely don't live in California.I never once was happy paying rent, and getting nothing out of it myself. That enough is reason to buy a property. brb being told to move after lease or rent goes up.
There's no way to buy a home in about 75% of this state unless you make absurd money.
01-13-2018, 01:51 PM
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#163
01-13-2018, 02:02 PM
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#164
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Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
Agreed. Also, at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself whether you really want to go down that road all the way. I'm always a bit peeved when I hear Donald Trump real estate wannabes clamouring that real estate is the way to go. It has its share of risks and downsides just like any other business. I'm just a middle class professional here and I can't be asked to extend myself financially to buy a couple of other properties and rent them out. My wife and I both have full time jobs and we sure as chit don't want to deal with all that noise.While I agree with you, the location of rental property drastically changes ones perspective/view. Those who have posted who actually do have rental properties seem to be managing them pretty well. pulling contingency money out of your rents every month is an absolute no brainer.
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01-13-2018, 03:08 PM
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#165
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Originally Posted By MidnightSun⏩
Renting can be a serious PITA. It once took me 3-4 months to evict someone and another month to clean up. Had some STEM students I was renting to that would call me to change a fuking lightbulb or flip a breaker in a panel. Stupid af! Anymore I only rent to certain friends, slight discount but I still make a profit and I know they’re clean and can fix minor issues.Agreed. Also, at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself whether you really want to go down that road all the way. I'm always a bit peeved when I hear Donald Trump real estate wannabes clamouring that real estate is the way to go. It has its share of risks and downsides just like any other business. I'm just a middle class professional here and I can't be asked to extend myself financially to buy a couple of other properties and rent them out. My wife and I both have full time jobs and we sure as chit don't want to deal with all that noise.
I do have a property in a tourist area, during a week long rally I can charge 6-10K for the week, and I use it as a Air BnB the rest of the year. I pay my cousin a bit to look after it and clean up.
I used to live at every property I own, I just didn’t sell it. I also lucked out buying the other two in Denver before everyone started moving here.
Definitely a good side gig if you have the down payment and the right market in your area. All in all I agree with OP though.
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01-13-2018, 03:19 PM
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#166
01-13-2018, 06:48 PM
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#167
Originally Posted By MidnightSun⏩
how much you paid for the house?To put things in perspective, here are some stats about the costs of running my 4 bedroom house in Ontario:
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
City taxes: $4,600 per year
Natural gas for forced air heating and hot water tank: approx $1,300 per year
Water and sewage fees: approx $600 per year
Electricity: approx $700 per year
Total: about $7,200 - give or take.
This is obviously not counting small random expenses like furnace filter, general maintenance, outdoor stuff supplies like caulking, paint, light bulbs, etc, NOR big ticket maintenance stuff like roofing, driveway sealing, and what not. Don't forget to that when you own a house you will now have to buy a ****load of stuff that you would not normally buy if you rented an apartment or a condo.
Believe me, when you calculate the TRUE cost of owning a house, it is far less attractive than morons on this forum think.
People create a narrative that fits into what they believe and/or to justify their decision. Nothing new here.
01-14-2018, 07:49 AM
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#168
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Originally Posted By the700level⏩
So who is fronting you the $? I'm sure we'd all like to knowSo you’re talking about traditional mortgage lending
No.
No.
01-14-2018, 08:03 AM
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#169
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best ROI is usually just flipping any items you can find at a reasonable price and finding specific buyers
IE: Vintage 80s skateboard at goodwill for $5.99. Flip on Ebay for $400
This does require a lot of hustle and time but it beats any stock market pick without the anxiety of market trends
IE: Vintage 80s skateboard at goodwill for $5.99. Flip on Ebay for $400
This does require a lot of hustle and time but it beats any stock market pick without the anxiety of market trends
01-14-2018, 08:12 AM
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#170
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Originally Posted By milesgiles1⏩
Not sure how mortgages work where you are (probably very different to here), but in Aus. you can increase the mortgage if your property increases in value. So you effectively 'cash out' profits without paying capital gains tax or other transaction costs.Here's the thing though.. how are you going to crystallise that 184k 'profit'..?
I'm not saying it isn't real money, it is, but unless you downsize or move somewhere cheaper you aren't going to see that money. You have just ensured you can afford to buy something similar if prices were to rise quickly
I'm not saying it isn't real money, it is, but unless you downsize or move somewhere cheaper you aren't going to see that money. You have just ensured you can afford to buy something similar if prices were to rise quickly
I.e 500k property
(400k) loan equals
100k equity
[property value increases to 700k]
700k property
(560k) loan equals
140k equity
And you now have a 160k line of credit AKA access to your capital.
Good way to make tax free gains IMO, although it depends on the property increasing in value. The ability to safely leverage money is the big drawcard for property, you can magnify your gains massively by borrowing large amounts of money.
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01-14-2018, 09:34 AM
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#171
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Originally Posted By keels141⏩
You can effectively do the same here with equity release, but the last time I looked it was considerably more expensive than the original mortgage. Pensioners groups have warned against these schemes as being a rip off, and always advise people to move house instead. Don't know if that's the same in aus.Not sure how mortgages work where you are (probably very different to here), but in Aus. you can increase the mortgage if your property increases in value. So you effectively 'cash out' profits without paying capital gains tax or other transaction costs.
I.e 500k property
(400k) loan equals
100k equity
[property value increases to 700k]
700k property
(560k) loan equals
140k equity
And you now have a 160k line of credit AKA access to your capital.
Good way to make tax free gains IMO, although it depends on the property increasing in value. The ability to safely leverage money is the big drawcard for property, you can magnify your gains massively by borrowing large amounts of money.
I.e 500k property
(400k) loan equals
100k equity
[property value increases to 700k]
700k property
(560k) loan equals
140k equity
And you now have a 160k line of credit AKA access to your capital.
Good way to make tax free gains IMO, although it depends on the property increasing in value. The ability to safely leverage money is the big drawcard for property, you can magnify your gains massively by borrowing large amounts of money.
01-14-2018, 09:37 AM
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#172
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Originally Posted By vulgoo⏩
$462,500. Not willing to reveal which city I live in. I live in a major city in Ontario, Canada.how much you paid for the house?
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01-14-2018, 09:41 AM
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#173
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Originally Posted By milesgiles1⏩
Investing is always contextual. You're post is invalid. It honestly sounds like you just figured this out for yourself and are so arrogant that you think no one else has came to this conclusion lol. How much money did you lose, op?Property is to store wealth already accumulated. It is not the way to get rich in the first place.
So many miscers come on here, particularly in a rising market, say 'huh duh' I'm getting into real estate, going to pay off this one in 6.13 years (back of an envelope calculation based on fantasy figures) 'then I'm getting a multi occupancy huh duh and I'll be on that passive income retirement when I'm 35' etc etc..
Absolute piffle. Governments, and markets, can't just let property go up higher than earnings indefinitely. You end up with a nation of renters who feel they are being extorted and will vote for someone who taxes property wealth (viz, Corbyn in the UK).
Any idiot can look at the last few years of the housing market and think ' this is where I need to be'. It doesn't work like that. You may well have made money the last few years, in fact if you bought after 2009 you almost certainly did. Doesn't make you Warren Buffet.
Cliffs/life advice. Get a skill. Educate yourself. Get a side hustle. Stop looking for shortcuts. Forget the words passive income. Live within your means, acquire capital, invest said capital wisely. Eventually you may feel some of your wealth should go into real estate. There ain't no easy road.
So many miscers come on here, particularly in a rising market, say 'huh duh' I'm getting into real estate, going to pay off this one in 6.13 years (back of an envelope calculation based on fantasy figures) 'then I'm getting a multi occupancy huh duh and I'll be on that passive income retirement when I'm 35' etc etc..
Absolute piffle. Governments, and markets, can't just let property go up higher than earnings indefinitely. You end up with a nation of renters who feel they are being extorted and will vote for someone who taxes property wealth (viz, Corbyn in the UK).
Any idiot can look at the last few years of the housing market and think ' this is where I need to be'. It doesn't work like that. You may well have made money the last few years, in fact if you bought after 2009 you almost certainly did. Doesn't make you Warren Buffet.
Cliffs/life advice. Get a skill. Educate yourself. Get a side hustle. Stop looking for shortcuts. Forget the words passive income. Live within your means, acquire capital, invest said capital wisely. Eventually you may feel some of your wealth should go into real estate. There ain't no easy road.
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01-14-2018, 09:45 AM
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#174
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Originally Posted By rectifryer⏩
Haven't lost a cent.Investing is always contextual. You're post is invalid. It honestly sounds like you just figured this out for yourself and are so arrogant that you think no one else has came to this conclusion lol. How much money did you lose, op?
You're.
01-14-2018, 09:52 AM
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#175
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Originally Posted By milesgiles1⏩
Are you from UK? Similar lending environment over there as far as I am aware, whereas USA for example is much different.You can effectively do the same here with equity release, but the last time I looked it was considerably more expensive than the original mortgage. Pensioners groups have warned against these schemes as being a rip off, and always advise people to move house instead. Don't know if that's the same in aus.
The lending is the main reason I like property anyway. You can technically leverage into shares or cryptoassets if you want, but the volatility is way higher.
Over here for example, you can borrow at 5% interest rate for a property and borrow up to 90% of the property value. Shares, in contrast, are 7-10% interest rate and you can only borrow 60% for blue chip shares.
It is a pretty safe bet to leverage into property IMO. I have 800k debt in property and I am more worried about my 5k investment in crypto lol.
Even if the property grows at 5% per year, that is still 30k annual growth on a 600k asset. It's a very different environment in the UK though: I think property in Aus. is good because
- the population is growing at 350k per year,
- 90% of population growth is in the main 4 capital cities
- 70% of property owners are homeowners (i.e not investors)
- loans are full recourse - meaning you can't walk away from the loan like in the US subprime crisis
- and also the lending environment mentioned above.
For me it seems like the safest way to invest money, it is a set and forget strategy - whereas I am looking at my crypto holdings every 2 hours
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01-14-2018, 10:26 AM
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#176
01-14-2018, 10:32 AM
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#177
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Originally Posted By keels141⏩
Yes ukAre you from UK? Similar lending environment over there as far as I am aware, whereas USA for example is much different.
The lending is the main reason I like property anyway. You can technically leverage into shares or cryptoassets if you want, but the volatility is way higher.
Over here for example, you can borrow at 5% interest rate for a property and borrow up to 90% of the property value. Shares, in contrast, are 7-10% interest rate and you can only borrow 60% for blue chip shares.
It is a pretty safe bet to leverage into property IMO. I have 800k debt in property and I am more worried about my 5k investment in crypto lol.
Even if the property grows at 5% per year, that is still 30k annual growth on a 600k asset. It's a very different environment in the UK though: I think property in Aus. is good because
- the population is growing at 350k per year,
- 90% of population growth is in the main 4 capital cities
- 70% of property owners are homeowners (i.e not investors)
- loans are full recourse - meaning you can't walk away from the loan like in the US subprime crisis
- and also the lending environment mentioned above.
For me it seems like the safest way to invest money, it is a set and forget strategy - whereas I am looking at my crypto holdings every 2 hours
.
The lending is the main reason I like property anyway. You can technically leverage into shares or cryptoassets if you want, but the volatility is way higher.
Over here for example, you can borrow at 5% interest rate for a property and borrow up to 90% of the property value. Shares, in contrast, are 7-10% interest rate and you can only borrow 60% for blue chip shares.
It is a pretty safe bet to leverage into property IMO. I have 800k debt in property and I am more worried about my 5k investment in crypto lol.
Even if the property grows at 5% per year, that is still 30k annual growth on a 600k asset. It's a very different environment in the UK though: I think property in Aus. is good because
- the population is growing at 350k per year,
- 90% of population growth is in the main 4 capital cities
- 70% of property owners are homeowners (i.e not investors)
- loans are full recourse - meaning you can't walk away from the loan like in the US subprime crisis
- and also the lending environment mentioned above.
For me it seems like the safest way to invest money, it is a set and forget strategy - whereas I am looking at my crypto holdings every 2 hours
.Tons of articles online, lots of different types of equity release. Offered by both insures and building societies as 'reverse mortgages'
Honestly I think they are immoral. I doubt one person in a hundred understands what they are about. I'd be very concerned if my parents did it. Anyway that's a different conversation.
Hope you are right in your prediction, obviously the 800k is relative to the equity you have and your salary. Not saying you have done, but history shows people tend to borrow up to their limits when it comes to houses, so a sharp rise in interest rates or sudden drop in salary can be disastrous.
01-14-2018, 10:45 AM
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#178
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Originally Posted By milesgiles1⏩
Yeah a lot of people are uneducated and unaware of the risks. And life can come at you hard - I just lost my job a few days ago completely out of the blue as it happens, which is why it is good to have a buffer of at least 20k for a rainy day.Yes uk
Tons of articles online, lots of different types of equity release. Offered by both insures and building societies as 'reverse mortgages'
Honestly I think they are immoral. I doubt one person in a hundred understands what they are about. I'd be very concerned if my parents did it. Anyway that's a different conversation.
Hope you are right in your prediction, obviously the 800k is relative to the equity you have and your salary. Not saying you have done, but history shows people tend to borrow up to their limits when it comes to houses, so a sharp rise in interest rates or sudden drop in salary can be disastrous.
Tons of articles online, lots of different types of equity release. Offered by both insures and building societies as 'reverse mortgages'
Honestly I think they are immoral. I doubt one person in a hundred understands what they are about. I'd be very concerned if my parents did it. Anyway that's a different conversation.
Hope you are right in your prediction, obviously the 800k is relative to the equity you have and your salary. Not saying you have done, but history shows people tend to borrow up to their limits when it comes to houses, so a sharp rise in interest rates or sudden drop in salary can be disastrous.
As for the reverse mortgage, I don't see it as a bad thing - similar thing to a line of credit. It can help out cash poor/asset rich retirees who don't have the liquidity to pay their bills.
Anyway, property is definitely not a get rich quick scheme. You need a lot of capital just to get into the market these days...I would say it is a very safe way to compound existing wealth though.
***Trapped on prison island crew***
01-14-2018, 02:58 PM
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#179
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Originally Posted By MidnightSun⏩
Kathleen Wynne is coming for you. Shes gonna tax your foreskin brah.$462,500. Not willing to reveal which city I live in. I live in a major city in Ontario, Canada.
how can she neg... HOW CAN SHE NEG!!! HOW?!
01-14-2018, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted By keels141⏩
This this and this.Yeah a lot of people are uneducated and unaware of the risks. And life can come at you hard - I just lost my job a few days ago completely out of the blue as it happens, which is why it is good to have a buffer of at least 20k for a rainy day.
As for the reverse mortgage, I don't see it as a bad thing - similar thing to a line of credit. It can help out cash poor/asset rich retirees who don't have the liquidity to pay their bills.
Anyway, property is definitely not a get rich quick scheme.You need a lot of capital just to get into the market these days...I would say it is a very safe way to compound existing wealth though.
As for the reverse mortgage, I don't see it as a bad thing - similar thing to a line of credit. It can help out cash poor/asset rich retirees who don't have the liquidity to pay their bills.
Anyway, property is definitely not a get rich quick scheme.You need a lot of capital just to get into the market these days...I would say it is a very safe way to compound existing wealth though.
I cannot stress this enough, coming in with a small down payment and having your paycheck just cover your monthly expenses (with or without tenants) is a serious risk. If your mortgage is a variable rate, you will most likely see another interest rate increase coming in soon, in most countries.
Also people completely fail to realize to expenses related to property ownership, specially if they aren't handyman. You will need furnace, AC, roof, plumbing, exterior, etc repairs at some point. I understand that the average joe probably can't redo a roof himself/herself, but if you call a plumber/electrician every time you get any related issues, you will not get ahead very fast.
how can she neg... HOW CAN SHE NEG!!! HOW?!
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