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Forum ยป ** Official Florida Shooting Endless Argument Thread **
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Thread: ** Official Florida Shooting Endless Argument Thread **

post 1543848591 02-14-2018, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted By lildave⏩
The only problem with that is how do you decide who carries and who doesnt? You cant exactly just give every teacher a gun. If you have a couple security guards at the school with guns and the shooter knows that they will just take them out first.
Its sorta a ****ty situation where I'm not really sure there is an answer on how to stop it. One thing is it seems like there is always warning signs that people ignore. If a kid sees something they gotta say something. Let the police look into it. If the kid is troubled then get them help. IMO this is a mental health issue. They expelled this kid for some reason. Is expelling kids really the answer? Sure they might be times that it is the answer but trying to figure out what is going on and let them work through their issues could also be the answer. But.... that costs money and its easier for the administration of the school to tell the kid to **** off so its not their problem anymore.
Why should teachers be forced to become trained armed gunman just to feel safe at their place of work?

Armed security guards could deter. But even then, someone who knows the school will still have a plan to either avoid the guard during the chaos, or kill him first.

I mean do people really think a guard is going to be able shoot in a crowd with kids running away? dont think it quit works like that.
post 1543848631 02-14-2018, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted By RamRod2334⏩
Bullchit I have a close personal friend that was at that concert for a surprise 30th birthday getaway with his fiance. He said the gunfire was so rapid everyone on the ground thought there was at least 3 or 4 shooters. Bumpstocks turned those semi autos into fully auto machine guns.
The ratio of wounded to killed at Las Vegas was 9:1. That POS shooter probably wounded more people because of the bump stocks, but if he'd have fired without them, his accuracy would have been better and I dare say he would have killed more if he'd actually aimed his shots. Shooting fast =/= killing more, especially with the limited size clips he had. In fact, the next 4 closest mass shootings in terms of fatalities were closer to a 2:1 ratio of wounded:killed.

Oh yeah, here's what a practiced shooter can do with an AR-15 WITHOUT a bump stock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gf_5MR4tE
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post 1543849071 02-14-2018, 10:53 PM
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Instead of arguing about banning or not banning guns, we need to look at what is wrong with people today.
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post 1543849151 02-14-2018, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
Oh yeah, here's what a practiced shooter can do with an AR-15 WITHOUT a bump stock.
I agree with your sentiment, but lets be real tea. Miculek is more than a "practiced" shooter, he's one of the top professional shooters in the world.
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post 1543849411 02-14-2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
Why should teachers be forced to become trained armed gunman just to feel safe at their place of work?

Armed security guards could deter. But even then, someone who knows the school will still have a plan to either avoid the guard during the chaos, or kill him first.

I mean do people really think a guard is going to be able shoot in a crowd with kids running away? dont think it quit works like that.
No one said to force teachers too, do you not understand what voluntary means? Why is it in the states that allowed teachers to ccw the training classes were packed for months with teachers who want to excercise their god given right to self protection amd to protect their students.
post 1543849551 02-14-2018, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted By Avalanche3319⏩
I agree with your sentiment, but lets be real tea. Miculek is more than a "practiced" shooter, he's one of the top professional shooters in the world.
That's a fair criticism. I went back and watched a couple of bump stock vids and the shooters fired faster than I recalled. I mean, there is a reason people had fun taking them to the range. Still, firing fast is not the same thing as firing accurately. I am wondering if the POS didn't know this in advance and was looking to gain some infamy just on sheer numbers of people hit, more than anything else.
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post 1543849831 02-14-2018, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted By NinjaNoir⏩
Instead of arguing about banning or not banning guns, we need to look at what is wrong with people today.
This.

Someone finally talks some sense in this thread.
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post 1543849951 02-14-2018, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
The ratio of wounded to killed at Las Vegas was 9:1. That POS shooter probably wounded more people because of the bump stocks, but if he'd have fired without them, his accuracy would have been better and I dare say he would have killed more if he'd actually aimed his shots. Shooting fast =/= killing more, especially with the limited size clips he had. In fact, the next 4 closest mass shootings in terms of fatalities were closer to a 2:1 ratio of wounded:killed.

Oh yeah, here's what a practiced shooter can do with an AR-15 WITHOUT a bump stock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gf_5MR4tE
Son... are you really talking about guns?



Are you that autistic that your unable to see that is a much broader issue here? The shooting (guns) is an effect, the CAUSE is whats important.














I cringe when I see some loser trying to discuss gun politics in these situations.... literal definition of pure, low-functioning cringe.
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post 1543850151 02-14-2018, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted By NinjaNoir⏩
Instead of arguing about banning or not banning guns, we need to look at what is wrong with people today.
Or why American media breeds fear so bad that citizens deem it necessary/normal to arm themselves with deadly weapons in their homes. So fkn weird to me.
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post 1543850291 02-14-2018, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted By RespectYourself⏩
Or why American media breeds fear so bad that citizens deem it necessary/normal to arm themselves with deadly weapons in their homes. So fkn weird to me.
Same could be said why your media needs to brainwash you into being defenseless and helpless. So in your guns free utopia no ever gets murdered, raped, robbed etc?
post 1543850791 02-14-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted By RespectYourself⏩
Or why American media breeds fear so bad that citizens deem it necessary/normal to arm themselves with deadly weapons in their homes. So fkn weird to me.
Why wouldn't I have a gun in my home to defend against some scumbag that would break in and inflict harm to me?
post 1543850871 02-14-2018, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted By WrestlingFan123⏩
Handguns are responsible for most of our gun related fatalities.
And those are mostly suicides.
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post 1543850981 02-14-2018, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
And those are mostly suicides.
Suicides and gang related killings. Funny how some states have high gun ownership like Vermont, new Hampshire etc... and yet hardly any homicides, is it the gun or the people who have the gun?
post 1543851071 02-14-2018, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted By RespectYourself⏩
Or why American media breeds fear so bad that citizens deem it necessary/normal to arm themselves with deadly weapons in their homes. So fkn weird to me.
Because when seconds matter, the police are minutes away. I live in an unincorporated area of a county. My law enforcement is the county sheriff's department. If I needed them on a moment's notice, I'd be waiting 5-10 minutes for them to arrive. It's not just somebody breaking in at 4:00AM that we have to worry about. We have black bears and mountain lions where I live. If I were to go hiking in the mountains just a couple of miles from where I live, I run the risk of encountering one of those without any means of protection.
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post 1543851091 02-14-2018, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted By RespectYourself⏩
Or why American media breeds fear so bad that citizens deem it necessary/normal to arm themselves with deadly weapons in their homes. So fkn weird to me.
I don't have guns because I'm afraid, I have guns because Ienjoyhaving guns. Be it for hunting, target shooting, or yes, comfort of knowing I'm prepared for most situations. I thoroughly enjoy having guns and the training to use them properly.
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post 1543851321 02-14-2018, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted By dhawkeye1980⏩
Same could be said why your media needs to brainwash you into being defenseless and helpless. So in your guns free utopia no ever gets murdered, raped, robbed etc?
Originally Posted By havoc00⏩
Why wouldn't I have a gun in my home to defend against some scumbag that would break in and inflict harm to me?
Go for it, it's in your amendment thing I guess. Just saying it's a foreign concept for people in my country. In this thread we're discussing what drives people to do these things and I'm saying that my personal observation is that a lot of Americans seem to be constantly on watch or fearful of attack and the media plays a big part in driving that fear. Mental health problems and guns have always been around but my personal opinion is that your society at large is conditioned to be afraid and to use the biggest bat you can to defend yourselves.
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post 1543851331 02-14-2018, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted By TheIronAsylum⏩
someone bring me up to date on what the most recent findings have beeen what were the motives ect


no sjw cnn spin pls
lol it's not looking like it's shaping up to be something you want to hear tho, w/ or w/o the SJW spin:
[ul]
  • 5'8" pale ginger w/ freckles

  • JROTC

  • Expelled for fighting*

  • Team #MAGA

  • Anti-muslim

  • expressed a wish to kill as many antifa as possible half a year ago (?)

  • Praised Elliot Rodger (suspected incel) (?)

  • Anti-gun control because "bad guys dont give a **** about laws" (?)

  • Considered creepy by peers

  • Rejected by at least one girl

  • Reportedly treated different "for how [he] look[ed]"

  • unspecified mental health issues

    • [/ul]
    Some of the above (the ones with a parenthetical question mark) are based on youtube comments attributed to him (based on the fact they were posted by a "Nikolas Cruz").

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/5yzWOkC.jpg[/img]
    [URL=https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/florida-school-shooting-suspect]far right[/URL]

    Doesn't really answer the question about motive, but prob the usual school mass shooter profile: inceldom*/rejection/social outcast stuff + psych/behavioral issues.

    *Although, curiously[URL=http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article200211164.html]one report[/URL], by one specific source (student Victoria Olvera) claims he had an ex, and the reason he was expelled was for fighting with that ex's new bf. Conflicts a bit w/ the incel narrative and the picture painted by other students. So who knows, could be revenge on this ex I suppose. Perhaps a combo of all
    post 1543851491 02-14-2018, 11:30 PM
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    Originally Posted By OutdoorsBrah⏩
    Son... are you really talking about guns?



    Are you that autistic that your unable to see that is a much broader issue here? The shooting (guns) is an effect, the CAUSE is whats important.














    I cringe when I see some loser trying to discuss gun politics in these situations.... literal definition of pure, low-functioning cringe.
    I made my case earlier in the thread that this is a problem of cultural rot, not guns.
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    post 1543851681 02-14-2018, 11:33 PM
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    Originally Posted By RespectYourself⏩
    Or why American media breeds fear so bad that citizens deem it necessary/normal to arm themselves with deadly weapons in their homes. So fkn weird to me.
    STFU. Don't people like you understand yet what "land of the free" is meant to signal? You're in a country where men can be prevented from entering some women's only coffee shops or else they have to pay more because of "male privilege".

    Sit down and shut up. This is a serious discussion about a right, not a discussion about mansplaining in your parliament.
    post 1543851971 02-14-2018, 11:38 PM
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    Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
    I made my case earlier in the thread that this is a problem of cultural rot, not guns.
    Thanks for responding in a cool manner. In this case, I made an assumption and it was incorrect. Accept my measlies good sir.
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    post 1543852001 02-14-2018, 11:38 PM
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    Originally Posted By mTOR⏩
    lol it's not looking like it's shaping up to be something you want to hear tho, w/ or w/o the SJW spin:
    [ul]
  • 5'8" pale ginger w/ freckles

  • JROTC

  • Expelled for fighting*

  • Team #MAGA

  • Anti-muslim

  • expressed a wish to kill as many antifa as possible half a year ago (?)

  • Praised Elliot Rodger (suspected incel) (?)

  • Anti-gun control because "bad guys dont give a **** about laws" (?)

  • Considered creepy by peers

  • Rejected by at least one girl

  • Reportedly treated different "for how [he] look[ed]"

  • unspecified mental health issues

    • [ul]
    Some of the above (the ones with a parenthetical question mark) are based on youtube comments attributed to him (based on the fact they were posted by a "Nikolas Cruz").


    far right

    Doesn't really answer the question about motive, but prob the usual school mass shooter profile: inceldom*/rejection/social outcast stuff + psych/behavioral issues.

    *Although, curiouslyone report, by one specific source (student Victoria Olvera) claims he had an ex, and the reason he was expelled was for fighting with that ex's new bf. Conflicts a bit w/ the incel narrative and the picture painted by other students. So who knows, could be revenge on this ex I suppose. Perhaps a combo of all
    Umm, no.

    The one thing these shooters have in common is that they are not on the political right.

    If they are political, they are almost always some extreme leftwinger. If they are not political, they end up having real mental illnesses, are frustrated loners and outsiders, or they're snackbars.

    This kid seems to have had anger issues and a fascination with guns.
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    post 1543852091 02-14-2018, 11:40 PM
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    ^I didn't say his politics contributed fam
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    Originally Posted By RespectYourself⏩
    Go for it, it's in your amendment thing I guess. Just saying it's a foreign concept for people in my country. In this thread we're discussing what drives people to do these things and I'm saying that my personal observation is that a lot ofAmericans seem to be constantly on watch or fearful of attack and the media plays a big part in driving that fear. Mental health problems and guns have always been around but my personal opinion is that your society at large is conditioned to be afraid and to use the biggest bat you can to defend yourselves.
    ^ In bold, is fiction. You are being spoon fed propaganda by your media. I have never for a minute feared for my safety, nor have I armed myself over such fears. I've never heard anyone talk like this, nor seen anyone act like this. We have guns for sporting reasons, for hunting reasons, for philosophical reasons, because we inherit them, or because we think it's better to have one if you need it than to pray you never need it. We don't live our lives in fear. Maybe in some poor part of the city where people are trapped by high crime you can find that fear, but I suspect it's not as widespread there as the media would have you believe.
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    post 1543852351 02-14-2018, 11:44 PM
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    Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
    This kid seems to have had anger issues and a fascination with guns.
    Reports I am reading now (NYT) state that both Cruz's teachers (prior to his being expelled from school) and classmates expressed concern about his violent behaviour. The school administration had reported this to the Sherrif's office who was conducting an investigation.

    Given Cruz's penchant for bragging about killing animals and causing suffering with his guns, I'd like to see more about how seriously the school took this behaviour and what procedure was followed to report it.
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    Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
    Reports I am reading now (NYT) state that both Cruz's teachers (prior to his being expelled from school) and classmates expressed concern about his violent behaviour. The school administration had reported this to the Sherrif's office who was conducting an investigation.

    Given Cruz's penchant for bragging about killing animals and causing suffering with his guns, I'd like to see more about how seriously the school took this behaviour and what procedure was followed to report it.
    They need to bring back ancient torture for scumbags like this
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    Originally Posted By mTOR⏩
    ^I didn't say his politics contributed fam
    I know what you were trying to do. I've seen you post in R&P. You're trying to tie him to the political right. Same thing that guy did earlier post the reportedly fake pic of him with a MAGA hat (was that you too?). Not only is it very unlikely he's on the political right, but it's the wrong time to try and rush to judgement. There are some reports out there that he was a registered democrat, but you don't see anyone in here rushing to make that claim before it's actually been demonstrated as true.
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    post 1543852621 02-14-2018, 11:50 PM
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    Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
    Given Cruz's penchant for bragging about killing animals and causing suffering with his guns, I'd like to see more about how seriously the school took this behaviour and what procedure was followed to report it.
    He was being treated, but was apparently lost to follow-up

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...200211164.html:
    Broward County Mayor Beam Furr said during an interview with CNN that the shooter was getting treatment at a mental health clinic for a while, but that he hadn't been back to the clinic for more than a year.

    "It wasn't like there wasn't concern for him," Furr said.
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    pretty sure the shooter was bullied and went on a mental break. no idea when the educational management or whatever its called gonna wake the fukc up abd realize being bullied in school have adverse effects so bad , they are equal to terrorism
    Cherish your life. Live to tell your story
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    Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
    STFU. Don't people like you understand yet what "land of the free" is meant to signal? You're in a country where men can be prevented from entering some women's only coffee shops or else they have to pay more because of "male privilege".

    Sit down and shut up. This is a serious discussion about a right, not a discussion about mansplaining in your parliament.
    Not sure what you're on about mate. I love America. Im just weirded out by the guns.

    Where's this womens coffee shop??
    Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
    ^ In bold, is fiction. You are being spoon fed propaganda by your media. I have never for a minute feared for my safety, nor have I armed myself over such fears. I've never heard anyone talk like this, nor seen anyone act like this. We have guns for sporting reasons, for hunting reasons, for philosophical reasons, because we inherit them, or because we think it's better to have one if you need it than to pray you never need it. We don't live our lives in fear. Maybe in some poor part of the city where people are trapped by high crime you can find that fear, but I suspect it's not as widespread there as the media would have you believe.
    Cool, thanks for your perspective.
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    #690
    1. dhawkeye1980
    2. Banned
    1. dhawkeye1980
    2. Banned
    3. Join Date: Apr 2012
    4. Posts: 33,168
    5. Rep Power: 0
    Originally Posted By coolflow⏩
    saw some of the vids on liveleak


    americans need to pull there heads in and deal with this ****.

    get rid of your guns.

    we still have hunting guns and handguns but do you need all the rest?

    do you?
    Originally Posted By wagtail⏩
    they are too far gone, mate

    trying to disarm American society, you might as well cure cancer while you are at it
    Lmfao at these cucks thanks I will take my freedom over your fears. Guns are not the problem its signs that say guns free zone thinking it will stop people bent on committing murder. Maybe they should put up murder free zone signs? Maybe that will help
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