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Forum » ** Official Florida Shooting Endless Argument Thread **
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Thread: ** Official Florida Shooting Endless Argument Thread **

post 1543874431 02-15-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
im realizin some of my ((hypothetical)) activities not exactly street legal. i dont really leave the southeastern united states for any reason tho, so idk about the commerce laws from a personal standpoint. to me thats the feds shaking down more than anything havin to do with safety. same w suppression.
It is a federal felony to give or receive a firearm between two people who live in different states, unless you go through an FFL and with a 4473, in the state of the person receiving the firearm. Doesnt' even matter if they are parent/child or any other relationship. And this deals with possession, not "ownership", so you can say whatever the hell you want about whose gun it is or borrowing or loaning, doesn't matter, transfer of possession across state lines, federal felony unless you pay a fee and get federal government permission and record keeping
post 1543874481 02-15-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted By supersystem3⏩
Literally using your own body as a human shield to save people that aren't even your family takes a hell of a more less bravery and selflessness than using a pistol to engage a murderer actively trying to kill you. The former requires something extraordinary, the latter does not. FFS, there are child soldiers in Africa that shoot at people like it's no big deal.

Also, you honestly don't know how these people with a CCW will behave if their life was genuinely on the line. What's better, a teacher potentially freezing up or fleeing and their firearm never being utilized in the defense of their students, or that teacher never having had the opportunity to be a credible threat to an active shooter regardless of how brave that teacher is?
Yes.


jugg isn't giving people nearly enough credit here.
post 1543874501 02-15-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted By supersystem3⏩
Literally using your own body as a human shield to save people that aren't even your family takes a hell of a more less bravery and selflessness than using a pistol to engage a murderer actively trying to kill you. The former requires something extraordinary, the latter does not. FFS, there are child soldiers in Africa that shoot at people like it's no big deal.

Also, you honestly don't know how these people with a CCW will behave if their life was genuinely on the line. What's better, a teacher potentially freezing up or fleeing and their firearm never being utilized in the defense of their students, or that teacher never having had the opportunity to be a credible threat to an active shooter regardless of how brave that teacher is?
Nuff said...
post 1543874531 02-15-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted By supersystem3⏩
TIL from untrained miscers with no combat experience that your average teacher with minimal training and a gun is a useless sack of chit that will shoot innocent bystanders, but your average school shooter with no training but Xbox is a ruthless killing machine that can only be stopped when the SWAT team shows up or he blows his own brains out
TBH these guys have free reign for at least 5 minutes and barely get their numbers past the low teens. I'm always amazed by how few people they take out, even if 17 is 17 too many and pretty high by school shooting standards. It doesn't negate your point but it's a lot harder to shoot just one guy who you are trying to take down than it is to just shoot at random.
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post 1543874621 02-15-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
I thought legally you're able to carry to bars/restaurants....... it's more so the establishments rule whether or not they will allow you in with it..... not illegal however. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/20/cc...no-guns-signs/

It's not a gun crime unless you're carrying in public areas where it's not legal (schools, post offices, etc.), it's just considered trespassing (being on private property where you are unwelcome).
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post 1543874751 02-15-2018, 08:05 AM
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#936
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
It is a federal felony to give or receive a firearm between two people who live in different states, unless you go through an FFL and with a 4473, in the state of the person receiving the firearm. Doesnt' even matter if they are parent/child or any other relationship. And this deals with possession, not "ownership", so you can say whatever the hell you want about whose gun it is or borrowing or loaning, doesn't matter, transfer of possession across state lines, federal felony unless you pay a fee and get federal government permission and record keeping
that dudnt sound right farley lemme call my boy n do some fact-finding.
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post 1543874811 02-15-2018, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/20/cc...no-guns-signs/

It's not a gun crime unless you're carrying in public areas where it's not legal (schools, post offices, etc.), it's just considered trespassing (being on private property where you are unwelcome).
"Unfortunately, it depends completely on where you are. Some states give such signage more weight than others. Some don’t give such signage any weight. In some states, signage only has weight if the sign has specific language and formatting."


It 100% depends on the state you are in
post 1543874851 02-15-2018, 08:06 AM
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#938
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Originally Posted By supersystem3⏩
Literally using your own body as a human shield to save people that aren't even your family takes a hell of a more less bravery and selflessness than using a pistol to engage a murderer actively trying to kill you. The former requires something extraordinary, the latter does not. FFS, there are child soldiers in Africa that shoot at people like it's no big deal.

Also, you honestly don't know how these people with a CCW will behave if their life was genuinely on the line. What's better, a teacher potentially freezing up or fleeing and their firearm never being utilized in the defense of their students, or that teacher never having had the opportunity to be a credible threat to an active shooter regardless of how brave that teacher is?
This is very valid here, and I haven't thought about that way.

My arguments were more so about the best option for protecting schools, which unfortunately require money that schools don't have. Basically what is the most effective way to do it that will make a difference. So yeah I can definitely see your point that having the ability to defend (whether it's used or not) is better than being restricted from it.
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post 1543874911 02-15-2018, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
that dudnt sound right farley lemme call my boy n do some fact-finding.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

This is one of the felonies that a whole hell of a lot of people have committed. Pretty good sign that it's a retarded law we shouldn't have. But, we do.
post 1543874971 02-15-2018, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
"Unfortunately, it depends completely on where you are. Some states give such signage more weight than others. Some don’t give such signage any weight. In some states, signage only has weight if the sign has specific language and formatting."


It 100% depends on the state you are in
This I find stupid. If you can carry a gun in bars in one state, it should go for all states. That is one thing I really dislike about CCW laws. It seems different states can make up their own restrictions.
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post 1543875341 02-15-2018, 08:12 AM
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#941
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
This I find stupid. If you can carry a gun in bars in one state, it should go for all states. That is one thing I really dislike about CCW laws. It seems different states can make up their own restrictions.
Gun laws vary WILDLY between states.

Each state does make up their own restrictions. In some states this means you won't even get a carry license to begin with. In some states it means you can carry without a carry license because you don't need one.
post 1543875581 02-15-2018, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
Gun laws vary WILDLY between states.

Each state does make up their own restrictions. In some states this means you won't even get a carry license to begin with. In some states it means you can carry without a carry license because you don't need one.
I only have experience in PA and FL. I know FL permit requirements were much stricter than PAs. Like I said, you just need to be alive to get one here. I heard NYC is brutal to carry, but don't know details.
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post 1543876191 02-15-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted By supersystem3⏩
Literally using your own body as a human shield to save people that aren't even your family takes a hell of a more bravery and selflessness than using a pistol to engage a murderer actively trying to kill you. The former requires something extraordinary, the latter does not. FFS, there are child soldiers in Africa that shoot at people like it's no big deal.

Also, you honestly don't know how these people with a CCW will behave if their life was genuinely on the line. What's better, a teacher potentially freezing up or fleeing and their firearm never being utilized in the defense of their students, or that teacher never having had the opportunity to be a credible threat to an active shooter regardless of how brave that teacher is?

.
So Americans think arming innocent school teachers and forcing them to do active shooter training is better than more gun regulation.

There's no hope for you *******s
post 1543876211 02-15-2018, 08:21 AM
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#944
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
I only have experience in PA and FL. I know FL permit requirements were much stricter than PAs. Like I said, you just need to be alive to get one here. I heard NYC is brutal to carry, but don't know details.
PA is good with the exception of their requirement that all handgun transfers go through a FFL.

Transfers of handguns between spouses, parent and child, grandparent and grandchild or between active law enforcement officers are exempt from the above requirements.

But if you want to say loan a handgun to your neighbor or best friend, or any other random person, you have to go to an FFL, pay the fee, fill out a 4473, and register the transfer with the government. That's the only hangup I am aware of with PA
post 1543876231 02-15-2018, 08:21 AM
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So far the solutions I see are:

1-give everyone guns!!!!!
2-allow guns in bars where everyone is drunk and easily angered!!!!!!
3-no gun free zones! Let ppl carry guns everywhere!!!!!!!
4-all teachers should have guns!!!!


We wonder why it's worse here than anywhere else. certified nut jobs man lol
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post 1543876271 02-15-2018, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

This is one of the felonies that a whole hell of a lot of people have committed. Pretty good sign that it's a retarded law we shouldn't have. But, we do.
lmao yea my buddy confirmed everything u are saying

i've been handed down so many firearms over my lifetime, mostly hunting rifles and shotguns and so on.

im from the country and was born in the early 80's so im not personally too far removed from the time where you could leave your shotgun in your locked vehicle as a kid, type of deal. times have changed.
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post 1543876351 02-15-2018, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
So Americans think arming innocent school teachers and forcing them to do active shooter training is better than more gun regulation.

There's no hope for you *******s
I see why you made this troll account...I wouldn't want such stupidity ^ on display under my real account either
post 1543876511 02-15-2018, 08:23 AM
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#948
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Originally Posted By Godyssey⏩
So far the solutions I see are:

1-give everyone guns!!!!!
2-allow guns in bars where everyone is drunk and easily angered!!!!!!
3-no gun free zones! Let ppl carry guns everywhere!!!!!!!
4-all teachers should have guns!!!!


We wonder why it's worse here than anywhere else. certified nut jobs man lol
In Indiana the minimum age for a carry license is 18. Bars are legal for carry. College campuses are legal for carry. Drinking while carrying is legal. No training requirement. Shall issue. Probably top 5 in the nation for % of the population licensed to carry. It's not a problem.

So, you were saying?
post 1543876601 02-15-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
In Indiana the minimum age for a carry license is 18. Bars are legal for carry. College campuses are legal for carry. Drinking while carrying is legal. No training requirement. Shall issue. Probably top 5 in the nation for % of the population licensed to carry. It's not a problem.

So, you were saying?
Lol...he should be Idiyssey
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post 1543876631 02-15-2018, 08:24 AM
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Libs would rather take a reactive approach and blame "guns" for all violence. I'm for a proactive approach.

-Lets make Active shooter drills more frequent at all schools across the US.

-Lets teach teachers and children that escape can mean breaking a window etc, not just hiding under a desk.

- Lets have at least one full time armed security guard on watch at all school.

- Lets ensure that the FBI is actually doing it's job by tracking down potential threats being boasted about on the internet as was the case here and stop it before we have 17 dead.
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post 1543876701 02-15-2018, 08:25 AM
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#951
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Originally Posted By Godyssey⏩
So far the solutions I see are:

1-give everyone guns!!!!!
2-allow guns in bars where everyone is drunk and easily angered!!!!!!
3-no gun free zones! Let ppl carry guns everywhere!!!!!!!
4-all teachers should have guns!!!!


We wonder why it's worse here than anywhere else. certified nut jobs man lol
1.) not one person said that
2.) you can already legally carry into bars in many states
3.) that school was a gun free zone...... look how well that worked.
4.) not one person said that either, said legal CCW holding teachers should be allowed to carry.
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post 1543876941 02-15-2018, 08:28 AM
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#952
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Originally Posted By Godyssey⏩
So far the solutions I see are:

1-give everyone guns!!!!!
2-allow guns in bars where everyone is drunk and easily angered!!!!!!
3-no gun free zones! Let ppl carry guns everywhere!!!!!!!
4-all teachers should have guns!!!!


We wonder why it's worse here than anywhere else. certified nut jobs man lol
What they're saying isn't that crazy. There are two ways to prevent this

1. Better self defense
2. Fewer people with the means to attack.

We should make changes to help in both areas, but politics makes people ONLY stick to one and demonize the other viable solution.

It should be a mix of both
post 1543877111 02-15-2018, 08:29 AM
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#953
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
1.) not one person said that
2.) you can already legally carry into bars in many states
3.) that school was a gun free zone...... look how well that worked.
4.) not one person said that either, said legal CCW holding teachers should be allowed to carry.
Yes
post 1543877171 02-15-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
I see why you made this troll account...I wouldn't want such stupidity ^ on display under my real account either
you already sound like a dumba$$ by pretending that gun access isnt a problem in the only country where kids get slaughtered at school on a disturbing frequency
post 1543877281 02-15-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
you already sound like a dumba$$ by pretending that gun access isnt a problem in the only country where kids get slaughtered at school on a disturbing frequency
Look at the points I've made.
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post 1543877321 02-15-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By InVentive44⏩
Look at the points I've made.
He has seen all of the points. He chooses to pretend otherwise
post 1543878131 02-15-2018, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted By juiceyjay⏩
This could’ve been prevented

The authorities knew

https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasack...XEo#.lj9VJOPLn




But did NOTHING
Welcome to a few posts ago where I raised the same point. Seems too many posters are now frothing at the mouth about gun rights to actually talk about one of the important matters in prevention.
Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
I can't believe how few people in this thread have actually read it, and thatit's already turning into a fukking chat thread.Again, this kid had problems, and his teachers/school administration reported him to the local sheriff's office. He was being investigated by the sheriff's office. He had posts online saying: "I whana shoot people...", and "I wanna die fighting a chit ton of people", and "I am going to kill law enforcement one day they go after the good people".

It's too bad this thread was manipulated into a lot of gun talk when the fact of the matter is that local enforcement should have done something about this sooner - questioned him, and potentially taken his guns away. I am very much pro guns, but all the communities I know of have a lot more respect for guns than to flaunt them in a violent manner while talking (publicly) about wanting to kill law enforcement officers. This kid was a nut, local authorities knew he was a nut - here's the missing part that barely anyone (in this thread) is talking about. And it's the most important part in terms of prevention in the future.
Prevention is key, and gun rights aren't really the subject of discussion in a case like this - it's not going to change. But the reaction of local law enforcement towards clearly troubled people with guns can.
post 1543878281 02-15-2018, 08:41 AM
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hmmm ive tried to have a open minded think about it. i pulled some random data. i thought maybe getting ate by a dog would track with getting killed at school, from a horror standpoint. in 2016 there was nine kids killed at school and 13 kids under age nine killed by dogs.

i picked just school bc i was debating all this w my wife and her contention is that this is more horrific bc that trauma is experienced by the whole town, state, country. says i, well let's mitigate the trauma (punish the exploitative media, or even the viewers like you in some way shape or form).

there's way less horrific things that are much more dangerous obv, your cancers, your drownings.

idk the more i think about it the more i have a problem with the two way street that is the media portrayal and then how we go crazy about it. it's so grabby bc we can't be with our kids all day. its tapping into a latent fear shared by like half the country.
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post 1543878401 02-15-2018, 08:42 AM
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I guarantee the shooter was on some sort of psychotropic drug.
post 1543878791 02-15-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
hmmm ive tried to have a open minded think about it. i pulled some random data. i thought maybe getting ate by a dog would track with getting killed at school, from a horror standpoint. in 2016 there was nine kids killed at school and 13 kids under age nine killed by dogs.

i picked just school bc i was debating all this w my wife and her contention is that this is more horrific bc that trauma is experienced by the whole town, state, country. says i, well let's mitigate the trauma (punish the exploitative media, or even the viewers like you in some way shape or form).

there's way less horrific things that are much more dangerous obv, your cancers, your drownings.

idk the more i think about it the more i have a problem with the two way street that is the media portrayal and then how we go crazy about it. it's so grabby bc we can't be with our kids all day. its tapping into a latent fear shared by like half the country.
Someone put this guy on a watch list please
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