I know double post. But it also occurred more worth noting.

First I wanted to make it clear immediately that any 'Natural limit', is not a weight limit. Pretty much any living thing can eat and get heavier, squirrels rats humans, no problem there. I stick 170lbs because that is what I am eating. Likewise I could go up and down in body fat, changing muscular appearance. Even water content as most everyone knows plays a role in 'what you see'.


So it begs a more specific answer from what is, a 'natural limit', or 'natural genetic limit' per person. In what way are we limited? It might be accurate to say that the body has a sort of 'planned approach' to growth, external stimuli, stress, and islimitedwithin it's range of responses to dealing with those events. It could also be said that a given mass of muscle can exert some maximal amount of force given its position/shape/leverage on a bone. Thus the weight, shape, length, of bones and body structure is a sort of 'natural limit' when directly analyzing muscle mass vs force vs leverage. Which brings up the idea of 'stress', and how to calculate it. In mechanical eng. school you would learn to calculate force and stress on objects based on formula involving shear stress, axial load, bending stress, torsional stress, at all angles and positions, to be able to tell if a structure will be built safely or not. In a real structure like a building this stress can be easily calculated and compared to known maximum stress capacity of given structures. In an animal, on the other hand, there is also an element of 'emotional stress' which has nothing to do with the force on the muscles. If you are fighting a lion for a piece of meat (you are the piece of meat) the stress-related hormones (which affect tissue responses) released would be far greater/different variety than nonchalantly walking into a gym and picking up a dangerously lethal amount of weight with no regard or respect for thelion inside the weights, waiting to snap you in half first chance it gets. The end result from both events in comparison, that is, the overcompensation and response to the stress will be different, even if the total amount of energy required to lift the weight was the same as it would be to fight the actual lion off. IMO you get more from fighting a lion, from being afraid from your life and fighting it off. But I am guilty of walking in calmly and putting that weight on the bar and squatting without even acknowledging it as a dangerous sport. Environmental cues and things of that nature are intertwined with gene activity as much as any weight lifting or perhaps more than it, and the flood of epinephrine during fight or flight can significantly alter perception of strength and will to 'escape' a predator if you think life is really in danger. Because of the way muscle works in an all or nothing fashion, and because motor neurons innervate 'groups' of muscle fibers as opposed to the whole thing at once, it is also sometimes difficult to tell if we are using 'all' of our muscle to move a weight. I am merely pointing out flaws and hurdles in the way of accurately measuring what exactly is a natural limit, and how to measure it. We already know there is a max force vs mass of muscle, and that body shape/length of bones affects possible force exertion maximums. It means all of us even if we had the same exact mass of muscle could still exert different maximal forces. The guy with the longest leverage arms could move the most weight but the shortest distance. Difficult to compare lifts without knowing exact length of moment arms, it could have a massive effect just a little extra bone moment length, or slightly offset tendon insertion positions. Pretty obscure, enough that one person's 150 is someone elses 200 and the guy with 150 thinks he is weaker or has less strength, when he really doesn't.

If anything, the only real limit is our own diet. I do not believe the body would throw away protein, ever. it either goes to sugar, fat, or muscle, but it never gets thrown away. With that in mind, lets consider two examples which might help us get our brains oriented with some basic common sense logic that might have been hidden before. because its so obvious.

example1
Imagine you are 200lbs and just ate butter to maintain that 200lbs. You burn 3k/day? So 3k of butter/day and the scale doesn't move.

What do you think will happen to your body? Obvious right? You will get fat, and lose muscle. Forever until you run out of muscle.
So why is this. What is happening to the muscle? Where is it going?

The body has a blood stream with amino acids circulating. Cells just take what they want. Its like a bunch of people living in houses around a well that use the well to get water.

But only when there is water. What happens if you run out of water? Eveybody dies. Oh, thats not good... So the body releases amino acids from the muscle when the blood loses amino acids. pretty simple and obvious, just common sense this has to happen. There is no where else on the entire animal body to store amino acids for the blood. The liver keeps glucose, sure 5% to 10% some athletes a bit more of it's weight in glucose but not really any amino acids. No proteins.

The point of this example is to only re-show what we already know: Diet matters, food choice/type matters. And to reform the idea in our heads that it should be plainly obvious if we do not eat enough protein to replace what our body uses, which by the way for average sedentary humans the A&P book says is approx 1gram protein per kg of body weight, our muscles will shrink even if we lift weights, actually it should go even faster. Metabolism/activity even background 'noise' increases significantly during athletics, if for no other reason than reaction rate (collisions drives reactions) increase due to heat input (temperature drives collisions). So I can only imagine what an athlete uses (I actually get around 3500kcal/day just to maintain 170lbs, 200-300g of protein)

example 2, This one should be fun
You weight 200lbs and eat only protein, no fat or carbs.

NOW what happens? You become giant muscle man overnight? So this is kind of where we see a 'natural limit' sort of effect. If you only give the body proteins to work with, well, it still needs sugars and fats to survive. The animal lipid bilayer is mostly protein by weight iirc; but the fat is an enormous component, and the sugars play a vital role in immune recognition, nucleoside/modification/and other things you don't want to stop working. So, unlike sugar and fat, which cannot become protein, the proteins can become sugars and some fats. there are some fats that come only from diet (and some proteins that only come from diet) or are extremely costly and difficult to make/limited in production, we aren't even going there. I am just talking about, trying to hone in on, exactly what happens on a pure protein diet. Well, not exactly, more like what obviously happens. Obviously, some sugar will be made from protein to provide blood glucose. Obviously some protein could become fat, even if it has to turn to sugar first. there is probably a metabolic pathway linking (if only in one direction) all of the important carbon structures necessary to maintain life while waiting for diet to provide the un-makeable resources. So where does any natural limit play a role here? I would say that the quantity of protein that unnecessarily converts to sugar or fat, is what you 'lose' to any planned 'natural limit'. It puts a 'cap' or threshold on the amount of protein that muscle is able/willing to store through diet-only means, for the simple reason that it might not be in the "genetic plan" we discussed earlier at the current body shape. If you tried eating more protein, a larger percentage would go to fat and sugar, not really making any progress. You would probably open up more metabolic pathways because having so much protein available means the cells can make expensive structures, expensive intricate structures, that normally might have been reserved for times of energetic 'wealth'. Until, that is, the limit changes for some reason. Maybe you gained 5lbs of fat recently on a butter binge, and now gravity puts that extra weight, more force on your bones, causing you to gain slight bone mass, which affects the energy requirement to move your body on behalf of muscles to do the same exact activities you used to do with less effort, which overcompensates the muscle slightly to store more glycogen/water/neurotransmitter/calcium/sodium/potassium/etc... and of course the muscle proteins.

The same effect might be achieved by wearing a 5lbs shirt each day btw. I am surprised we don't see weighted clothing. Think ankle weights but all over, arms, neck, back. You take it off and you can fly I bet. Sorry o/t hope this helped

Lifting heavy hurts my joints.
Not lifting heavy hurts my pride.
Can't decide which is worse.

what bull****

in my first 2-2,5 years of training ( after which i haven't bothered much at all ) i could easely rep those with good form
5*3 plate bench with a botched shoulder
5 reps for four plate squat
5+ reps for 5 plate deadlift

Maxed out at 660 deadlift, 340 bench and 530 squat but those were with questionable form.

you really like my picture , I'm flattered, really





One trick to life I think I found, is learning to love yourself and those around you without being satisfied with anything about yourself.


I'm not trying to come off like a dick or obnoxious, or arrogant. Nobody likes being told what to do.
But without credentials, how can you trust the guy on the internet? Some guy, pretends that school is all you need to know things.

No, it isn't just school. I learn about all engineering mechanics of all kinds. For example, cars, I build my own cars while I goto school.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ge-budget.html


What I described was merely related to human body mechanisms of biology(engineering). I said nothing of my other pursuits and other forms of knowledge. It makes more sense maybe if you understand that I am not solely a biological/school related field expert. I am a scientist; I study all fields, all nature.

brb figuring out how to reprogram genome crew

lol, that's not right. this is my ideal






































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