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Forum » My experience with the Verticla Diet by Stan Efferding.
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Thread: My experience with the Verticla Diet by Stan Efferding.

post 1549486601 04-19-2018, 08:01 AM
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#31
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What's with all the damn orange juice? **** is just a ****hair better than coke.

With sodium, it's been demonized over the years but I don't think it's that big a deal to eat more of it, most people probably don't get enough. Although, with as little potassium as people get, it's hardly a big deal.

Sodium will cause water retention. Water retention will cause your BP to rise, but only to a point.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1549486681 04-19-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted By Iceman1800⏩
I was under the impression that high sodium sent blood pressure thru the roof. Is that broscience or is the extra water counter it?
Its not broscience. Its just not an issue unless you already have high BP. There are better ways to manage that though

My BP wasn't effected at all by this
Training log: http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=165829701
post 1549488311 04-19-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
What's with all the damn orange juice? **** is just a ****hair better than coke.

With sodium, it's been demonized over the years but I don't think it's that big a deal to eat more of it, most people probably don't get enough. Although, with as little potassium as people get, it's hardly a big deal.

Sodium will cause water retention. Water retention will cause your BP to rise, but only to a point.
Roughly he's said that the small amounts of OJ supplies fructose which is primarily absorbed by the liver and helps supply energy for proper function. Not sure how true this is...
post 1549489371 04-19-2018, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted By Iceman1800⏩
I was under the impression that high sodium sent blood pressure thru the roof. Is that broscience or is the extra water counter it?
Salt has an acute effect on BP aka it spikes it after consuming but afaik long term is just a myth if you are in the normal range.

Fair enough if this diet works for you but I'd like nutritional experts/hypertrophy and recovery experts opinions on this. This whole industry is so complex that you can pretty much answer "it depends" for any question anyone asks. Saying that it makes you bloat less or give more energy during workouts can be true for some people but can be false for others. It's too individual to say IMO. Then there's the school of thought that says genetics play a massive role in how you digest and what types of food suit your body the best, then people who say as long as you count calories and macros and eat mostly "healthy" food, you will get same or better results and all these fad diets are just to make money off people. Then there's people who swear by it like the keto cult.
Who are we to believe then, just do whatever you think works best for you and fuk the rest.
post 1549489981 04-19-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted By Schnitzl⏩
Salt has an acute effect on BP aka it spikes it after consuming but afaik long term is just a myth if you are in the normal range.

Fair enough if this diet works for you but I'd like nutritional experts/hypertrophy and recovery experts opinions on this. This whole industry is so complex that you can pretty much answer "it depends" for any question anyone asks. Saying that it makes you bloat less or give more energy during workouts can be true for some people but can be false for others. It's too individual to say IMO. Then there's the school of thought that says genetics play a massive role in how you digest and what types of food suit your body the best, then people who say as long as you count calories and macros and eat mostly "healthy" food, you will get same or better results and all these fad diets are just to make money off people. Then there's people who swear by it like the keto cult.
Who are we to believe then, just do whatever you think works best for you and fuk the rest.
it's nothing special- it's just using white rice as the main calorie source as it's easy to digest and sodium as a main electrolyte. took off in strongman because they need a stupid high amount of calories
post 1549490121 04-19-2018, 08:52 AM
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^^^

Excellent post.

Things work differently for different people. Everyone can drop weight, but for me, I dropped from 205ish and chubby (over 20%) down to 170 with the standard bodybuilding-diet (tons of small meals, chicken, rice, broc****) and I bet at least half the weight I lost was lean mass. It was just a complete failure.

Meanwhile, years later I try a keto diet and for me, I was able to lose weight almost effortlessly and went to about 180 with no strength loss and, I'm estimating, very little lean mass loss.

Yet, someone else could do what I did initially and be fine and others might not respond well to keto-diets (although I suspect most people would do well there...). My point, at the end of the day there isn't a Silver Bullet 1-Way that works for everyone.

If the OP is making gains (or losses) here, more power to them. Give it a whirl for 12 weeks and see if it works for you. If it does, great. If it doesn't, try something new until you find what works well for you.

(edit I was replying to Schnitiznll or whatever his name was a post above the one I was pointing to)

(edit2 did I misspell broc****? broc****?? weird)

(edit3 oh for fuks sake. You can't say bro-c**** anymore?) brocc-o-l-i. what the fuk?
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1549490501 04-19-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted By Iceman1800⏩
I was under the impression that high sodium sent blood pressure thru the roof. Is that broscience or is the extra water counter it?
If you are a heart patient or a blood pressure patient it will; low salt is the foundation of all heart smart diets.
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
post 1549490751 04-19-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted By Iceman1800⏩
I was under the impression that high sodium sent blood pressure thru the roof. Is that broscience or is the extra water counter it?
OPs posted video and Vertical Diet PDF explains a lot of this. There is correlation of high sodium intake leading to high blood pressure in those who are already living an unhealthy life. From a performance standpoint, the extra minerals, iodine, and water retention help regulate natural hormone balance and reduce cramping, among a host of other things. Stan goes on in the Rhino Rants talking about extreme hospitalization type cramping unable to walk after a bench press and warming up for a squat set. Mark Bell + others load him with salt tabs/water, a meal, massage, Stan goes on to complete the meet after cramps subside.

Been using this diet for three weeks and also feel more awake and refreshed during my days, been sleeping better, etc. It's not just the food, a lot of it is paying attention to vitamin/mineral deficiency, sleep, integrating fruit and salt on a very regular basis, red meats due to high BCAA complexes vs chicken or tilapia, etc. Not magic, but a good roadmap for those (like me) who thought they were doing well on macros and gave little thought to micros. Been on this about 1 month with my wife meal prepping and feeling great.
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post 1549491141 04-19-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted By Schnitzl⏩
Salt has an acute effect on BP aka it spikes it after consuming but afaik long term is just a myth if you are in the normal range.

Fair enough if this diet works for you but I'd like nutritional experts/hypertrophy and recovery experts opinions on this. This whole industry is so complex that you can pretty much answer "it depends" for any question anyone asks. Saying that it makes you bloat less or give more energy during workouts can be true for some people but can be false for others. It's too individual to say IMO. Then there's the school of thought that says genetics play a massive role in how you digest and what types of food suit your body the best, then people who say as long as you count calories and macros and eat mostly "healthy" food, you will get same or better results and all these fad diets are just to make money off people. Then there's people who swear by it like the keto cult.
Who are we to believe then, just do whatever you think works best for you and fuk the rest.
Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
^^^

Excellent post.

Things work differently for different people. Everyone can drop weight, but for me, I dropped from 205ish and chubby (over 20%) down to 170 with the standard bodybuilding-diet (tons of small meals, chicken, rice, broc****) and I bet at least half the weight I lost was lean mass. It was just a complete failure.

Meanwhile, years later I try a keto diet and for me, I was able to lose weight almost effortlessly and went to about 180 with no strength loss and, I'm estimating, very little lean mass loss.

Yet, someone else could do what I did initially and be fine and others might not respond well to keto-diets (although I suspect most people would do well there...). My point, at the end of the day there isn't a Silver Bullet 1-Way that works for everyone.

If the OP is making gains (or losses) here, more power to them. Give it a whirl for 12 weeks and see if it works for you. If it does, great. If it doesn't, try something new until you find what works well for you.

(edit I was replying to Schnitiznll or whatever his name was a post above the one I was pointing to)

(edit2 did I misspell broc****? broc****?? weird)

(edit3 oh for fuks sake. You can't say bro-c**** anymore?) brocc-o-l-i. what the fuk?
These are good posts, and I don't disagree with you. However, I've tried multiple types of dieting for weight loss/weight gain. They were all effective to some degree. At the end of the day calories in versus calories out is the foundation of ANY plan. The route to get there can be different however.

The difference in this diet, versus any other has been 1.) zero GI issues 2.) zero lethargy 3.) better training 4.) faster recovery 5.) increase in performance 6.) no burn out during workouts.
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post 1549491401 04-19-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted By Schnitzl⏩
Who are we to believe then, just do whatever you think works best for you and fuk the rest.
Its not about believing anything. You're not taking a leap of faith here

He put together a scaleable diet based around easily digestible foods that focuses on performance. There's nothing ground breaking here. Its just packaged practical knowledge based off of experience and science

Try it and see if you like it
Training log: http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=165829701
post 1549491761 04-19-2018, 09:13 AM
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#41
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
What I've noticed:

- zero stomach distress and no bloat.
- only 1 poop a day, as opposed to 3x previously.
- energy is amazing. I've gone cold turkey from stimulants, and feel better than ever
- training has been the best its been in awhile.
- strength not dropping, and even improving.
- recovery is better
- generally feel drastically better.

Supplements:

Cod Liver Oil
Nunn Hydration Tabs ( drop one in my water with training)
Multi Vitamin
Thermotabs ( buffered salt, eat 1 with each meal)
10000IU D3

Great results, I'm curious what your diet and supplementation were like before this? Micronutrient intake is through the roof with this diet, that alone should cause a huge improvement in energy, recovery, and your general disposition.


You guys are right that this place is filled with idiots about dieting, and also those very entrenched into their current diet/method (myself included a lot of times). But I think one thing that makes people skeptical of this diet is that the results are generally qualitative and not quantitative. The purpose is to feel better, recover better, and reduce bloat & GI stress. Those are tough to put a number on so the results are not easy to show.
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post 1549491991 04-19-2018, 09:16 AM
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#42
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra⏩
Great results, I'm curious what your diet and supplementation were like before this? Micronutrient intake is through the roof with this diet, that alone should cause a huge improvement in energy, recovery, and your general disposition.


You guys are right that this place is filled with idiots about dieting, and also those very entrenched into their current diet/method (myself included a lot of times). But I think one thing that makes people skeptical of this diet is that the results are generally qualitative and not quantitative. The purpose is to feel better, recover better, and reduce bloat & GI stress. Those are tough to put a number on so the results are not easy to show.
My before diet was basically a typical chicken/rice/protein shake/potato diet. Nothing special. Just counted calories/macros. For supplements I used preworkout, intraworkout, whey isolate, D3, multi, fish oil, and joint supp.
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post 1549492101 04-19-2018, 09:17 AM
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#43
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
Its not about believing anything. You're not taking a leap of faith here

He put together a scaleable diet based around easily digestible foods that focuses on performance. There's nothing ground breaking here. Its just packaged practical knowledge based off of experience and science

Try it and see if you like it
I was more aiming towards the fact that a lot of these outcomes this diet promises have been debunked by numerous scientific meta-analysis and peer-reviewed papers including GI, insulin spikes, recovery or workout performance as miniscule or irrelevant even other than possibly placebo effect.
post 1549492151 04-19-2018, 09:18 AM
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Is only ****ting once as opposed to 3 really a benefit?

lmao somehow that's what I took away from your post.
Uncontrollable behavior with some psychopathic tendencies
post 1549492291 04-19-2018, 09:19 AM
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#45
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
My before diet was basically a typical chicken/rice/protein shake/potato diet. Nothing special. Just counted calories/macros. For supplements I used preworkout, intraworkout, whey isolate, D3, multi, fish oil, and joint supp.
Surprised that your energy and recovery improved so much considering that you were still taking all the supps outside of sodium, and eating white rice as potentially your main carb. Will definitely look into this diet after I finish cutting this summer, my strength has been raped by PSMF so I'll need to do some serious strength training.

Originally Posted By Schnitzl⏩
I was more aiming towards the fact that a lot of these outcomes this diet promises have been debunked by numerous scientific meta-analysis and peer-reviewed papers including GI, insulin spikes, recovery or workout performance as miniscule or irrelevant even other than possibly placebo effect.
any links? Could google, but seems like the burden's on you
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post 1549492301 04-19-2018, 09:20 AM
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#46
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Originally Posted By Critter5592⏩
Is only ****ting once as opposed to 3 really a benefit?

lmao somehow that's what I took away from your post.
LOL but you can say yes to some degree... If you're constipated, having stomach pain and feeling like chit, then no it's not beneficial.

However, I have none of those symptoms. My body is utilizing the nutrients more efficiently, which is a prime focus of this diet. Eating foods that are easily/readily absorbable by the body, which would eliminate waste.
6'1 - 240lbs

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post 1549492341 04-19-2018, 09:20 AM
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#47
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Originally Posted By Critter5592⏩
Is only ****ting once as opposed to 3 really a benefit?

lmao somehow that's what I took away from your post.
I saw that as well, a huge focus on GI issues and poo ping.

OP are you more into body builduing or powerlifting or a hybrid of both?
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post 1549492431 04-19-2018, 09:21 AM
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#48
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra⏩
Surprised that your energy and recovery improved so much considering that you were still taking all the supps outside of sodium, and eating white rice as potentially your main carb. Will definitely look into this diet after I finish cutting this summer, my strength has been raped by PSMF so I'll need to do some serious strength training.
It's been a night and day difference. Not just a " eh I feel a little better", but like a switch was turned on.
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post 1549492601 04-19-2018, 09:22 AM
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#49
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whats your take on using dextrose? I know stan got brian shaw on it too
post 1549492651 04-19-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
I saw that as well, a huge focus on GI issues and poo ping.

OP are you more into body builduing or powerlifting or a hybrid of both?
Sort of a Hybrid, but definitely more towards bodybuilding. My body feels better with hypertrophy training, and I typically do not enjoy structured training to the point of having to certain percentages for my weekly training and peaking. I like to be instinctive. I always keep the movements in there, and will do some low rep work at times, but generally I keep the reps up.
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post 1549492701 04-19-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted By 00A00⏩
Roughly he's said that the small amounts of OJ supplies fructose which is primarily absorbed by the liver and helps supply energy for proper function. Not sure how true this is...
OJ is full of sugar causing high blood sugar. But then again I'm diabetic...
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post 1549492821 04-19-2018, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By mmkgains⏩
whats your take on using dextrose? I know stan got brian shaw on it too
I've actually used Dextrose for a long time in my post workout shakes. 50g usually. Cheap, fast absorbing carb. Perfect for intake after training.
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post 1549492871 04-19-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
OJ is full of sugar causing high blood sugar. But then again I'm diabetic...
I believe Stan actually has a section dedicated to alterations to this diet have drastically helped people with diabetes. Don't quote me 100% on that, but I'm pretty sure I saw that in IG posts from him.
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post 1549493021 04-19-2018, 09:27 AM
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#54
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
OJ is full of sugar causing high blood sugar. But then again I'm diabetic...
Seems like exactly what would happen if you drank OJ, from what I know. Especially if that was your only/main source of sugars. Fructose is a monosacharide (sp?) so it should be absorbed preferentially over complex carbs by your liver to be converted to glycogen.
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post 1549493161 04-19-2018, 09:28 AM
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Does the diet require me to buy his stupid azz cooler?
post 1549493171 04-19-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra⏩
Surprised that your energy and recovery improved so much considering that you were still taking all the supps outside of sodium, and eating white rice as potentially your main carb. Will definitely look into this diet after I finish cutting this summer, my strength has been raped by PSMF so I'll need to do some serious strength training.
More in the video about supplementing those micros and getting a lower % absorption versus higher % absorption through real foods that react with the body naturally. Moon lands on man, lots of us know this but have a hard time integrating it 100% including myself. I've found it harder in this diet when maintaining a set of macros because of the fruits and juices upping my carbs and fructose keeping me hungrier while eating less carbs. Offset with more veggies, spinach, carrots, etc.
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post 1549493301 04-19-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra⏩
Seems like exactly what would happen if you drank OJ, from what I know. Especially if that was your only/main source of sugars. Fructose is a monosacharide (sp?) so it should be absorbed preferentially over complex carbs by your liver to be converted to glycogen.
Anything carbs/sugar causes high blood sugar for me. I eat rice, pasta, potatoes, my blood sugar shoots to 300. I eat chocolate it shoots to 180. Normal range is 70-120. Any candy or fruit gets absorbed quickly so if my blood sugar is 20. I just a few bananas or berries or chocolate.
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post 1549493591 04-19-2018, 09:33 AM
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Intredasting (srs).

Will look into this. My biggest issue RN is a lack of sleep, I've been getting on average 5 hours a night due to a mad work schedule.
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post 1549493721 04-19-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
I've actually used Dextrose for a long time in my post workout shakes. 50g usually. Cheap, fast absorbing carb. Perfect for intake after training.
Any recommendations for the PWO drink?

I know Stan highlighted sodium, glucose and fructose.
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post 1549493931 04-19-2018, 09:37 AM
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  1. JUGGERNAUT1333
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Originally Posted By Agentdark45⏩
Intredasting (srs).

Will look into this. My biggest issue RN is a lack of sleep, I've been getting on average 5 hours a night due to a mad work schedule.
Same man. 5-6 is my norm. I would love to feel 7-8 consistently.
Originally Posted By TXBuddy⏩
Any recommendations for the PWO drink?

I know Stan highlighted sodium, glucose and fructose.
I do this:
8oz Orange Juice
50g Dextrose
3 Thermotabs (just salt supp)
6'1 - 240lbs

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