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"Calories In, Calories Out" is a gross over-simplification. Stop preaching that B.S.
"Calories In, Calories Out" is a gross over-simplification. Stop preaching that B.S.
05-10-2018, 08:50 PM
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#31
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Thanks man who knew 500 calories worth of twinkies wasn't as nutritious as 500 calories of chicken, brown rice and veggies
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05-10-2018, 08:58 PM
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#32
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delet this
05-10-2018, 09:01 PM
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#33
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You know what is wrong with your way of thinking op is you give people too much credit. Yes everything you said is largely truthful but the majority of people are happy with moderate success and all you need to be moderately in shape and healthy is a basic training routine, frequent light cardio, and a basic diet.
Calories in vs calories out is the simple guideline that will work for most people. If some idiot goes on talking about the importance of ghrelin and chit it leads to fat fuks drinking butter coffee for the hormonal benefits because they oversimplified, and then they stay fat.
Moral of the story op? Fuk u.
Calories in vs calories out is the simple guideline that will work for most people. If some idiot goes on talking about the importance of ghrelin and chit it leads to fat fuks drinking butter coffee for the hormonal benefits because they oversimplified, and then they stay fat.
Moral of the story op? Fuk u.
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05-10-2018, 09:06 PM
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#34
05-10-2018, 09:08 PM
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#35
05-10-2018, 09:14 PM
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#36
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I would like to see *******OP and Mr. Layne "Phd" Norton go at it
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05-10-2018, 09:15 PM
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#37
05-10-2018, 09:19 PM
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#38
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Originally Posted By SkinnyBeast24⏩
No it's not. Thyroid function is part of the "calories out".Depends on the person. I only brought this up asI have a client with hypothyroidism so it's a bit more complicated than calories in vs. calories out for her.
Obviously, new research constantly being published so I'm sure my views on many things will change but I try to stay up to date so I don't spew bull****.
Obviously, new research constantly being published so I'm sure my views on many things will change but I try to stay up to date so I don't spew bull****.
05-10-2018, 09:19 PM
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#39
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05-10-2018, 09:23 PM
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#40
05-10-2018, 09:23 PM
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#41
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Thanks for this thread OP.
Would matter more if 99% of misc actually tracked calories or cared about nutrition.
Would matter more if 99% of misc actually tracked calories or cared about nutrition.
05-10-2018, 09:28 PM
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#42
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I'm more of a Calories out and then Calories in kinda guy. I take a poopers and then measure it, then I eat that many grams in lean protein/broc****.
works for me OP
works for me OP
You have my word as a Schoobs.
05-10-2018, 09:32 PM
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#43
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Originally Posted By TheJediBrah⏩
It stands to reason that when we reduce fat mass our body expends more energy than it stores, that is not in dispute but it is unhelpful and a gross oversimplification. It is as unhelpful and redundant as stating that: chronic fatigue is caused by lack of energy. Thanks for stating the obvious, now what? Why is the the body storing more fat, why is there a chronic lack of energy?No it's not. Thyroid function is part of the "calories out".
As some have already touched on: the quality of what we eat probably has as much to do with our overall metabolism than simple calories... in other words: everything else being equal, 100 calories from olive oil will be metabolised differently than 100 calories from table sugar or 100 calories from lean chicken breast.
BUT even then, everything else is rarely if ever equal... there are far too many variables involved (mostly outside our control) to focus simply on the calorie content of what we put in our mouths compared to the calories we expend based on exercise machines at the gym or an on-line chart.
Something like Hypothyroid adds to the variables outside our control because many of these variables are to do with biochemical processes under the influence of hormones like Thyroxine and Insulin.
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05-10-2018, 09:39 PM
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#44
05-10-2018, 09:56 PM
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#45
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Originally Posted By SkinnyBeast24⏩
You're still talking about something completely different. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with CICO. CICO is 100% accurate, 100% of the time. There are no exceptions.It stands to reason that when we reduce fat mass our body expends more energy than it stores, that is not in dispute but it is unhelpful and a gross oversimplification. It is as unhelpful and redundant as stating that: chronic fatigue is caused by lack of energy. Thanks for stating the obvious, now what? Why is the the body storing more fat, why is there a chronic lack of energy?
As some have already touched on: the quality of what we eat probably has as much to do with our overall metabolism than simple calories... in other words: everything else being equal, 100 calories from olive oil will be metabolised differently than 100 calories from table sugar or 100 calories from lean chicken breast.
BUT even then, everything else is rarely if ever equal... there are far too many variables involved (mostly outside our control) to focus simply on the calorie content of what we put in our mouths compared to the calories we expend based on exercise machines at the gym or an on-line chart.
Something like Hypothyroid adds to the variables outside our control because many of these variables are to do with biochemical processes under the influence of hormones like Thyroxine and Insulin.
As some have already touched on: the quality of what we eat probably has as much to do with our overall metabolism than simple calories... in other words: everything else being equal, 100 calories from olive oil will be metabolised differently than 100 calories from table sugar or 100 calories from lean chicken breast.
BUT even then, everything else is rarely if ever equal... there are far too many variables involved (mostly outside our control) to focus simply on the calorie content of what we put in our mouths compared to the calories we expend based on exercise machines at the gym or an on-line chart.
Something like Hypothyroid adds to the variables outside our control because many of these variables are to do with biochemical processes under the influence of hormones like Thyroxine and Insulin.
You're just talking about variables that affect Calories out
05-10-2018, 09:58 PM
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#46
05-10-2018, 10:00 PM
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#47
05-10-2018, 10:04 PM
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#48
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Originally Posted By TheJediBrah⏩
For me, I find people saying "It's just calories in versus calories out!" to be oversimplifying, and often condescending, to people who need to lose weight.You're still talking about something completely different. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with CICO. CICO is 100% accurate, 100% of the time. There are no exceptions.
You're just talking about variables that affect Calories out
You're just talking about variables that affect Calories out
It's like saying "You just need to stop drinking" to an alcoholic.
Gee. Thanks, bro. I never realized.
It's not that CICO isn't the mechanism by which physical weight loss occurs -- it's that it saying it trivializes the day to day feelings and experiences of what it means to deal with addictive and compulsive behaviors; it makes it out like it should be easy and no big deal.
But it is a big deal. There's an entire forum here for people struggling with weight loss.
When someone asks "How'd you lose weight?" and you respond "I just counted calories," it's missing the entire substance of their question. How did you count calories(with an app, just estimating, etc)? What meals did you choose to eat? How did you deal with hunger? How did you deal with time management? Were there tricks or snacks that you found particularly useful? How did you manage going out with friends? How did you do your grocery shopping? How did you deal with temptation?
Most people who try to lose weight struggle with it. A majority of them will fail at it, or succeed but gain the weight back. Weight loss isn't "just" CICO anymore than overcoming alcoholism is "just" not drinking. It's a whole, complex, difficult and often emotionally intense thing.
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05-10-2018, 10:26 PM
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#49
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Originally Posted By SkinnyBeast24⏩
You're simply making making excuses for people being lazy. It's a slightly advanced version of scientifically evidence based confirmation bias of a coping mechanism.For me, I find people saying "It's just calories in versus calories out!" to be oversimplifying, and often condescending, to people who need to lose weight.
It's like saying "You just need to stop drinking" to an alcoholic.
Gee. Thanks, bro. I never realized.
It's not that CICO isn't the mechanism by which physical weight loss occurs -- it's that it saying it trivializes the day to day feelings and experiences of what it means to deal with addictive and compulsive behaviors; it makes it out like it should be easy and no big deal.
But it is a big deal. There's an entire forum here for people struggling with weight loss.
When someone asks "How'd you lose weight?" and you respond "I just counted calories," it's missing the entire substance of their question. How did you count calories(with an app, just estimating, etc)? What meals did you choose to eat? How did you deal with hunger? How did you deal with time management? Were there tricks or snacks that you found particularly useful? How did you manage going out with friends? How did you do your grocery shopping? How did you deal with temptation?
Most people who try to lose weight struggle with it. A majority of them will fail at it, or succeed but gain the weight back. Weight loss isn't "just" CICO anymore than overcoming alcoholism is "just" not drinking. It's a whole, complex, difficult and often emotionally intense thing.
It's like saying "You just need to stop drinking" to an alcoholic.
Gee. Thanks, bro. I never realized.
It's not that CICO isn't the mechanism by which physical weight loss occurs -- it's that it saying it trivializes the day to day feelings and experiences of what it means to deal with addictive and compulsive behaviors; it makes it out like it should be easy and no big deal.
But it is a big deal. There's an entire forum here for people struggling with weight loss.
When someone asks "How'd you lose weight?" and you respond "I just counted calories," it's missing the entire substance of their question. How did you count calories(with an app, just estimating, etc)? What meals did you choose to eat? How did you deal with hunger? How did you deal with time management? Were there tricks or snacks that you found particularly useful? How did you manage going out with friends? How did you do your grocery shopping? How did you deal with temptation?
Most people who try to lose weight struggle with it. A majority of them will fail at it, or succeed but gain the weight back. Weight loss isn't "just" CICO anymore than overcoming alcoholism is "just" not drinking. It's a whole, complex, difficult and often emotionally intense thing.
Tracking your calories is DIFFICULT and is extremely tedious and people would rather be told things like just cut your carbs bro. But, if you do so successfully, it's science, if you're in a deficit there is no way around losing weight. Regardless of what you eat.
Now, there are TOOLS, that you can manipulate to make success a greater likelihood. Such as, eating more protein, eating more fibre, foods that are more satiating. Rather than Ice cream, to therefore make being in a DEFICIT easier on yourself.
BUT, you could eat the same amount of ice cream in value of 2000 calories to protein and fibre 'healthy foods' to 2000 calories in one day and your weight loss would be the same, if it is in a deficit. It's just that people are not disciplined, and if they eat poor foods, they don't know that they are consuming large amounts of calories because guess what - they aren't TRACKING their calories properly, are overall lazy, and do not know how to manipulate different food groups mostly because they are ignorant.
Health is another discussion.
If people track accurately, then there is simply no excuse for when they are in a surplus or maintenance and complaining about not losing weight..
Hope you're not spewing all this garbage to your clients, if you tell them to simply write down/use my fitness pal each and every day without failure and use an objective basis for their calculations along with what their activity levels are like, and you look at it with your degree/education you could've got in a library for free you should be able to understand why they are not losing weight.
05-10-2018, 10:33 PM
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#50
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Energy Balance is the linch pin factor. If you're consuming more calories that your expending you won't lose weight (outside of extreme nutrition deficiencies. It is a simplification but it also is unquestionably the single most important factor.
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05-10-2018, 10:37 PM
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#51
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Originally Posted By SkinnyBeast24⏩
Now you're just talking about why people have trouble measuring & sticking to CICO. Still nothing to do with the veracity of CICO as a measure.For me, I find people saying "It's just calories in versus calories out!" to be oversimplifying, and often condescending, to people who need to lose weight.
It's like saying "You just need to stop drinking" to an alcoholic.
Gee. Thanks, bro. I never realized.
It's not that CICO isn't the mechanism by which physical weight loss occurs -- it's that it saying it trivializes the day to day feelings and experiences of what it means to deal with addictive and compulsive behaviors; it makes it out like it should be easy and no big deal.
But it is a big deal. There's an entire forum here for people struggling with weight loss.
When someone asks "How'd you lose weight?" and you respond "I just counted calories," it's missing the entire substance of their question. How did you count calories(with an app, just estimating, etc)? What meals did you choose to eat? How did you deal with hunger? How did you deal with time management? Were there tricks or snacks that you found particularly useful? How did you manage going out with friends? How did you do your grocery shopping? How did you deal with temptation?
Most people who try to lose weight struggle with it. A majority of them will fail at it, or succeed but gain the weight back. Weight loss isn't "just" CICO anymore than overcoming alcoholism is "just" not drinking. It's a whole, complex, difficult and often emotionally intense thing.
It's like saying "You just need to stop drinking" to an alcoholic.
Gee. Thanks, bro. I never realized.
It's not that CICO isn't the mechanism by which physical weight loss occurs -- it's that it saying it trivializes the day to day feelings and experiences of what it means to deal with addictive and compulsive behaviors; it makes it out like it should be easy and no big deal.
But it is a big deal. There's an entire forum here for people struggling with weight loss.
When someone asks "How'd you lose weight?" and you respond "I just counted calories," it's missing the entire substance of their question. How did you count calories(with an app, just estimating, etc)? What meals did you choose to eat? How did you deal with hunger? How did you deal with time management? Were there tricks or snacks that you found particularly useful? How did you manage going out with friends? How did you do your grocery shopping? How did you deal with temptation?
Most people who try to lose weight struggle with it. A majority of them will fail at it, or succeed but gain the weight back. Weight loss isn't "just" CICO anymore than overcoming alcoholism is "just" not drinking. It's a whole, complex, difficult and often emotionally intense thing.
05-10-2018, 10:41 PM
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#52
show me one single instance where someone was consuming less calories than they were expending and gained weight, or vice versa.
The difference is in the macronutrients and micronutrients.
if you're in a deficit and eating 100% carbs you will still lose weight because of CICO, but that doesn't mean the weight will come all from fat. You have to have proper macros to optimally lose fat and retain as much muscle as possible.
Once you're macros are in balance, you now have micros to worry about. if you can perfectly hit your macros eating pizza, burgers, and chit food in general you will still lose that same amount of fat and retain the same amount of muscle as if you were eating foods with tons of micronutrients. In other words the effect on body composition would be the exact same. the difference has to do with things like that you'd feel like **** 24/7, you'd never feel satiated. you're hair and skin might be unhealthy or your nails, etc. but body fat and muscle would be the same as if you were eating the exact same amount of macros from "healthy food"
The difference is in the macronutrients and micronutrients.
if you're in a deficit and eating 100% carbs you will still lose weight because of CICO, but that doesn't mean the weight will come all from fat. You have to have proper macros to optimally lose fat and retain as much muscle as possible.
Once you're macros are in balance, you now have micros to worry about. if you can perfectly hit your macros eating pizza, burgers, and chit food in general you will still lose that same amount of fat and retain the same amount of muscle as if you were eating foods with tons of micronutrients. In other words the effect on body composition would be the exact same. the difference has to do with things like that you'd feel like **** 24/7, you'd never feel satiated. you're hair and skin might be unhealthy or your nails, etc. but body fat and muscle would be the same as if you were eating the exact same amount of macros from "healthy food"
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05-10-2018, 10:45 PM
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#53
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Originally Posted By MichaelDuong⏩
If I burn 2500 cals a day and only eat 2000 cals I will still lose weight no matter what I eat. Yes if I live on pizza I’ll be unhealthy and will be deficient in micro nutrients, but that doesn’t mean “calories in, calories out” is wrong or bs in anyway.somewhat agreed
a calorie is a calorie yes but the quality of it is important
if you're on a diet you'll feel like **** eating pure 2,000 calories of pizza
because most likely thats only a few slices and won't keep you full/energized
whereas you eat 2,000 calories of brocc/chicken/rice you'll be very energized, satiated, full etc
but you can always balance both, at the end of the day if you don't eat more than your body burns you lose weight, vice versa
a calorie is a calorie yes but the quality of it is important
if you're on a diet you'll feel like **** eating pure 2,000 calories of pizza
because most likely thats only a few slices and won't keep you full/energized
whereas you eat 2,000 calories of brocc/chicken/rice you'll be very energized, satiated, full etc
but you can always balance both, at the end of the day if you don't eat more than your body burns you lose weight, vice versa
05-10-2018, 10:47 PM
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#54
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Originally Posted By stillbored⏩
Hes not saying it's wrong, essentially, hes saying it's condescending and there is some sort of higher level complexity to it.If I burn 2500 cals a day and only eat 2000 cals I will still lose weight no matter what I eat. Yes if I live on pizza I’ll be unhealthy and will be deficient in micro nutrients, but that doesn’t mean “calories in, calories out” is wrong or bs in anyway.
Condescending and complex because basics don't sell and are boring, alongside the fact that people are generally lazy, and don't wan't to truly lose weight bad enough, mostly.
05-10-2018, 10:50 PM
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#55
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I agree. At my leanest all I ate was beef, chicken, and veggies. Never counted a single ****ing calorie. Its almost impossible to over at on grilled meats and veggies.
05-10-2018, 10:56 PM
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#56
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Originally Posted By otakutrevan⏩
Maybe that is because they are all low calorie, and very filling, leading you to be less likely in a surplus or at maintenance. Doesn't mean calorie out vs caloric in being wrong is why you got lean.I agree. At my leanest all I ate was beef, chicken, and veggies. Never counted a single ****ing calorie. Its almost impossible to over at on grilled meats and veggies.
Lack of critical thinking is absurd.
05-10-2018, 11:17 PM
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#57
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Originally Posted By ErikTheElectric⏩
This. And what Tommy wrote. The people arguing that a person who needs 2300 calories for maintenance and that since all calories are equal can eat 2250 calories of gummies every day as nutritional intake while working out and that this is fine through CICO because "he won't gain weight" are sort of missing the whole point of health. Calorie tracking is NOT just about fat loss - it is about being able to plan your daily food requirements in a realistic and healthy way to meet your macronutritional needs.Thanks for this thread OP.
Would matter more if 99% of misc actually tracked calories or cared about nutrition.
Would matter more if 99% of misc actually tracked calories or cared about nutrition.
05-10-2018, 11:23 PM
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#58
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Thanks OP. I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time. With this new knowledge I’ll be able to take things to the next level.
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05-10-2018, 11:51 PM
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#59
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Thanks OP
Distilled a complicated thing into less complicated words. Ok it's not super revolutionary but it's valuable nonetheless.
Ignore the stupid "hurrr durr man lands on moon" miscers.
Distilled a complicated thing into less complicated words. Ok it's not super revolutionary but it's valuable nonetheless.
Ignore the stupid "hurrr durr man lands on moon" miscers.
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