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Forum » Tesla is circling the drain...
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Thread: Tesla is circling the drain...

post 1557073121 07-24-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted By YUL⏩
This thread isn’t about trump you tds-suffering fool
Strong.

Read what Elon Musk tweeted then report back, you illiterate tool.
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post 1557073191 07-24-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
Strong.

Read what Elon Musk tweeted then report back, you illiterate tool.
Isn’t what he said true?
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post 1557073231 07-24-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
Typical berta boy lmao



https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicle...e-ev-emissions
and continue to outperform gasoline cars until the end of their lives.
Which is about 5 years later. Lmao
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post 1557073461 07-24-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
Which is about 5 years later. Lmao
And where'd you get that figure from?

And it's not like it's hard to get a battery replacement. Much simpler than an engine swap/rebuild.
Originally Posted By YUL⏩
Isn’t what he said true?
The part about being a ****? **** no. Musk tweeted that out of spite for his fragile ego.
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post 1557073831 07-24-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicle...e-ev-emissions

Unless you're talking about the actual production of energy, then you're partly right. The very least we can do is cut down on emissions until a viable, renewable energy source is implemented worldwide.
Actually no, the installation of infrastructure to service a mostly electric automobile culture will be massively destructive to the environment, we aren't even close to making that a "green" project.

The actual energy production requires an equally impressive infrastructure if you want it to be devoid of carbon emissions.

We need to do this but we need to take reasonable steps in a reasonable time frame.

IMO we pushed too hard too fast after starting too late, both sides screwed up here.

Population is the inevitable monkey wrench thrown into this whole mess. People consume energy and produce waste and we are doing nothing to balance this side of the equation.

Its like throwing water and gas on the same fire.
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post 1557075121 07-24-2018, 04:16 PM
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It's not really a "fraud" when all his financials are public on a publicly traded company. TESLA was doing WAYYYYY worse back in 2009 when they basically had nothing going at all; just a chitty prototype using another car's shell.... Everyone knows it doesn't produce a profit.... much like GE, SNAPCHAT, etc. Tons of new techy companies don't make chit now, but will in the future.
post 1557075461 07-24-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
Actually no, the installation of infrastructure to service a mostly electric automobile culture will be massively destructive to the environment, we aren't even close to making that a "green" project.

The actual energy production requires an equally impressive infrastructure if you want it to be devoid of carbon emissions.

We need to do this but we need to take reasonable steps in a reasonable time frame.

IMO we pushed too hard too fast after starting too late, both sides screwed up here.

Population is the inevitable monkey wrench thrown into this whole mess. People consume energy and produce waste and we are doing nothing to balance this side of the equation.

Its like throwing water and gas on the same fire.
Actually, partly right...again.

The more electric cars are being mass-produced and used, the more the infrastructure will compensate. How many years down the line will we see solar panels installed on homes? Car porches with solar panels? Tesla superchargers with solar panels attached to them? Battery tech that will have weeks of use, rather than days?

Renewable energy resources are advancing at an exponential rate. You're right about it damaging the environment at first, but it will far compensate any damage it has done in a very short time.
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post 1557075611 07-24-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted By LaCosaNostra90⏩
hes suckered in a lot of investors though, $53 billion market cap lol
cult stock.
post 1557076351 07-24-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted By nothingshocking⏩
My dad was in the process of buying a Tesla, and had some electrician come out to his house and tell him it would be $15,000 to install the electric hook-up for the car in his garage.

So he bought an Alfa Romeo instead.
$15,000 to install the electric hook-up? what exactly makes it that expensive? all you need is an industrial plug, a long cable to connect the plug to the power source, and a tradie to connect things for you that's it

Where I live with 200$ you could get the electric work done including parts for the famous Nissan leaf. what makes this car's electric work any different ?
post 1557076421 07-24-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
The more electric cars are being mass-produced and used, the more the infrastructure will compensate.
Mass producing electric cars that are not environmental and consume energy that is not green VS. mass producing green cars (specifically batteries) that use greener energy.

Getting there quick isn't green, getting there and then going all in is a far greener option.
Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
Tesla superchargers with solar panels attached to them?
The at home chargers are not green at all. Imagine a gas pump at your house, how many would we need to build? Its a $ grab at the expense of the environment.

Charging stations are far greener and once batteries get better (as in charge range = 2X full tank range) the fight over chargers will be less than the line at the gas station is today.

I am actually surprised that anyone interested in green tech fell for charge at home.
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post 1557077121 07-24-2018, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
It's not really a "fraud" when all his financials are public on a publicly traded company. TESLA was doing WAYYYYY worse back in 2009 when they basically had nothing going at all; just a chitty prototype using another car's shell.... Everyone knows it doesn't produce a profit.... much like GE, SNAPCHAT, etc. Tons of new techy companies don't make chit now, but will in the future.
But muh dey make no moneyy

they all makin red numberz mane it all about the flow of cash in, how you be CEO10k/day when you no make moneyy??

/s
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post 1557077891 07-24-2018, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted By J1n⏩
Model 3 is also a POS
Have you driven one? If not maybe try it before you judge.
post 1557077961 07-24-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
Mass producing electric cars that are not environmental and consume energy that is not green VS. mass producing green cars (specifically batteries) that use greener energy.

Getting there quick isn't green, getting there and then going all in is a far greener option.
See my previous post about the "ev isn't green" fallacy. Also, their Gigafactory is powered by solar. So once that's done, your 2nd part will be true.
Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
The at home chargers are not green at all. Imagine a gas pump at your house, how many would we need to build? Its a $ grab at the expense of the environment.

Charging stations are far greener and once batteries get better (as in charge range = 2X full tank range) the fight over chargers will be less than the line at the gas station is today.

I am actually surprised that anyone interested in green tech fell for charge at home.
Yeah. I was talking about the supercharger stalls that Tesla has.

You also don't technically need a 240v outlet to charge a Tesla. Once the batteries have more storage, a person would only need to charge one day for every two weeks of use or so. Even if you use a standard 120v outlet in your home, you'll be saving a ton of time and emissions.
Teslas already only need about one overnight charge a week (depending on driving habits) out of a standard 120v outlet.
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post 1557079121 07-24-2018, 05:07 PM
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It's not a complete fraud, but completely blown out of proportion. Elon Musk is great at marketing, but none of his products have impressed at all. Just tired old ideas being touted as revolutionary new thought. Same goes for his cars as his battery systems.

Source: am an EE and have talked to many engineers working for Tesla, including other EEs, and also live in LA less than 10-15 min drive to the Tesla hq.
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post 1557079141 07-24-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
You also don't technically need a 240v outlet to charge a Tesla. Once the batteries have more storage, a person would only need to charge one day for every two weeks of use or so. Even if you use a standard 120v outlet in your home, you'll be saving a ton of time and emissions.
Teslas already only need about one overnight charge a week (depending on driving habits) out of a standard 120v outlet.
I am talking about centralized energy VS distributed energy. It is not efficient in terms of resource consumption (you have build the network) or energy loss through the network resistance. Energy creation at home is a little better but only if the individual can go beyond a certain scale. On a small scale you are still building a lot of infrastructure to create meaningless amounts of energy. Solar is just not very energy dense, a large surface area tied to a single collection node is the way to go.

This is the same reason solar roadways are absolutely moronic. The nature of a road is a line, a terribly inefficient way to collect solar as the infrastructure to support it must span the entire length of the road.

In general you want massive single collection point nodes feeding into the grid to avoid massive infrastructure overhead.

Honestly supporting moving to communal living over solar and charging at home is a lot more intellectually honest if you support green.

Sprawling populations are inherently not green.
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post 1557079571 07-24-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
It's not a complete fraud, but completely blown out of proportion. Elon Musk is great at marketing, but none of his products have impressed at all. Just tired old ideas being touted as revolutionary new thought. Same goes for his cars as his battery systems.
Its more than that though. We are watching a generation that is acting more and more like a religious cult all the time. If you get the blessing of the community it becomes heresy to question the chosen ones.

Musk has this blessing and faces far less legitimate criticism that he deserves.

Brilliant people are capable of coming up with terrible ideas.

It is dangerous to forget this.
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Lift heavy and do HIIT to look and feel awesome.
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post 1557080591 07-24-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
I am talking about centralized energy VS distributed energy. It is not efficient in terms of resource consumption (you have build the network) or energy loss through the network resistance. Energy creation at home is a little better but only if the individual can go beyond a certain scale. On a small scale you are still building a lot of infrastructure to create meaningless amounts of energy. Solar is just not very energy dense, a large surface area tied to a single collection node is the way to go.

This is the same reason solar roadways are absolutely moronic. The nature of a road is a line, a terribly inefficient way to collect solar as the infrastructure to support it must span the entire length of the road.

In general you want massive single collection point nodes feeding into the grid to avoid massive infrastructure overhead.

Honestly supporting moving to communal living over solar and charging at home is a lot more intellectually honest if you support green.

Sprawling populations are inherently not green.
Yes, but in my previous point I mentioned how much more efficient solar technology is getting by the year. Even if we had suburban sprawl with everyone charging at home, it'll still be greener than if we were to continue with the current system. The rate of production vs emissions will slowly decrease with time the more that solar (or other green resources) evolves and is implemented.

Right now we're at 20% efficacy with solar technology. The more public opinion is pro-solar, the more money goes towards R&D for solar and battery tech. Imagine a 100 acre solar farm with 80% efficacy and battery tech with 90% retentiom over five years. It's not possible right now, but it can definitely be a reality in 10-20 years.

In my initial post about why Tesla is losing money, it's because it constantly re-invests its money into R&D into new battery tech.
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post 1557081151 07-24-2018, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
Its more than that though. We are watching a generation that is acting more and more like a religious cult all the time. If you get the blessing of the community it becomes heresy to question the chosen ones.

Musk has this blessing and faces far less legitimate criticism that he deserves.

Brilliant people are capable of coming up with terrible ideas.

It is dangerous to forget this.
It's just human nature at work. This particular company is the darling of liberal retards. We've also been fuked in the ass by energy companies who were in bed with the republicans for decades.

Greed, picking winners and losers and committing to a position without critical thought is part and parcel of the human experience, not unique to this generation or this country. People who recognize these facts are already aware of the truth and those who do not will not want to learn it. I'm not too worried, it's been this way since recorded history and will continue the same way. Can't change human nature.
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post 1557081191 07-24-2018, 05:33 PM
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post 1557081301 07-24-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted By JoeDelts⏩
Lol at thinking electric cars are doing anything to make a dent in pollution.

I've read articles that say 15 of the world's biggest container ships produce as much nitrogen oxide and sulphur oxide as all 760 million cars in the world combined. And there are 90,000 of these ships in operation!

You never hear this talked about because globalization is the root cause and the people who own the MSM would rather talk about all the supposed good that's come from it.
Would be very interested to see the source(s) on this.

15 ships creating as many emissions as 780 million cars...
One day scientists are going to kill us all.
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if u drive electric u would save a considerable amount on ur petrol bill.
post 1557081521 07-24-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball⏩
I think you're being a bit unrealistic with these types of numbers here
Not really. Scientists have already designed solar cells with 80% efficacy already - they're just incredibly expensive. Tesla batteries already have 60-70% retention after 160,000 km (about 6-7 years of moderate-high driving habits).

The only obstacle is cost. But the more the public opinion sways towards solar and EV, the less the cost will be to produce them.
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post 1557081891 07-24-2018, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By CptClean⏩
Would be very interested to see the source(s) on this.

15 ships creating as many emissions as 780 million cars...
I would post a link but I'm embarrassingly useless with this stuff. If you google "cargo ship pollution vs. cars" the first 10 or so hits will reference the study I'm talking about.

It's mainly due to the fuel these ships run on. It's very low grade....Basically like the sludge left over after crude has been refined. The gas we run in cars has been mostly stripped of the worst pollutants before it ever goes into your tank. The engines are also massive and run 24hrs for most days of the year.
post 1557088901 07-24-2018, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
Imagine a 100 acre solar farm with 80% efficacy and battery tech with 90% retentiom over five years. It's not possible right now, but it can definitely be a reality in 10-20 years.
Power grid engineering brah checking in.

A 100 acre solar field is about 100 MWs of power. That is with an optimal exposure. That is about 1/6 of a larger power plant, 1/12th of a decent nuke plant and 1/10,000 of typical load The mid-eastern coast of the us sees in the summer.

Also if you have abundance of solar and a few clouds go by you will see a very sharp decline in power gen and frequency will drop. Batteries could alleviate this but I cant imagine batteries will have the capacity to do this and provide power at night. Some parts of the us blow up mountains and have these huge upper/lower reservoirs. They pump up water at night (when power is cheaper) and run/provide reserves during the peak when power is expensive. Its an ingenius and old school battery idea but there is no way a greeny would let you blow up a mountain to do that nowadays.

Solar is a decent idea when combines with natura gas units, nukes, offshore wind, hydro and pump storage. Solar/wind alone is very unrealistic.
post 1557090461 07-24-2018, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By EEBreh⏩
I haven't actually seen a decent misc thread where we can discuss this so I thought I should create one. I don't think Tesla is going to make it brahs...

Cliffs for those who are unaware:

- Tesla has never turned a profit:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/elon...t-one-day.html

-Musk acts like a jerk to investors in their recent earnings call.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/03/here...illing-me.html

- 24% of Model 3 sales have been cancelled:
https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/19/tec...ade/index.html

- Musk claims that they hit their "production targets" but there are tons of teslas just sitting in a field (probably waiting for parts that have not yet been made):
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...d-california-0

- Tesla asks suppliers for cash back in order to appear that they are turning a profit:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...iers-cash-back

- Biggest country they sell their cars to is getting sick of their chit:
https://www.bloombergquint.com/busin...sla#gs.JnPiASo


It's a shame to see an American company fall apart but I just don't see how it makes any sense on why teslas market share is worth more than ford or gm. Major manufacturers are almost caught up to Tesla with EVs and are churning out cars. Just as a side note, I don't understand how EVs are viable with an antiquated grid. How are we helping the environment when we are creating lots of pollution to mine these precious metals used in batteries, using even more energy to turn them into a battery, and then consuming natural gas and/or oil to power these cars via power plants?
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post 1557090511 07-24-2018, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted By EEBreh⏩
Power grid engineering brah checking in.

A 100 acre solar field is about100 MWsof power. That is with an optimal exposure. That is about 1/6 of a larger power plant, 1/12th of a decent nuke plant and 1/10,000 of typical load The mid-eastern coast of the us sees in the summer.

Also if you have abundance of solar and a few clouds go by you will see a very sharp decline in power gen and frequency will drop. Batteries could alleviate this but I cant imagine batteries will have the capacity to do this and provide power at night. Some parts of the us blow up mountains and have these huge upper/lower reservoirs. They pump up water at night (when power is cheaper) and run/provide reserves during the peak when power is expensive. Its an ingenius and old school battery idea but there is no way a greeny would let you blow up a mountain to do that nowadays.

Solar is a decent idea when combines with natura gas units, nukes, offshore wind, hydro and pump storage. Solar/wind alone is very unrealistic.
Very true, but solar tech is coming a long way. I'm not saying we can power entire cities with it yet, but it's looking promising to power multiple communities with solar tech in the near future.
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post 1557090961 07-24-2018, 08:02 PM
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#117
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Originally Posted By googleccd⏩
$15,000 to install the electric hook-up? what exactly makes it that expensive? all you need is an industrial plug, a long cable to connect the plug to the power source, and a tradie to connect things for you that's it

Where I live with 200$ you could get the electric work done including parts for the famous Nissan leaf. what makes this car's electric work any different ?
a regular 50A 240v outlet would be around 500 to install. a tesla plug is 500, so about a thousand bucks for the standard hookup. it would take 4 days to fully charge your car with this setup.

a tesla supercharger costs about 15k, plus electric cost, plus setup and install cost. this is the fast charging one.
post 1557098971 07-24-2018, 09:38 PM
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#118
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
It's not a complete fraud, but completely blown out of proportion. Elon Musk is great at marketing, but none of his products have impressed at all. Just tired old ideas being touted as revolutionary new thought. Same goes for his cars as his battery systems.

Source: am an EE and have talked to many engineers working for Tesla, including other EEs, and also live in LA less than 10-15 min drive to the Tesla hq.
Correct. Elon appeals to mediocre intelligence nerds.

My good friend is an engineering manager there on the model 3 program and he calls the company a ponzi scheme.

I actually own a decent amount of TSLA stock but I think the fun is about to end.
6’1
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post 1557100701 07-24-2018, 10:05 PM
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#119
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
See my previous post about the "ev isn't green" fallacy. Also, their Gigafactory is powered by solar. So once that's done, your 2nd part will be true.




Yeah. I was talking about the supercharger stalls that Tesla has.

You also don't technically need a 240v outlet to charge a Tesla. Once the batteries have more storage, a person would only need to charge one day for every two weeks of use or so. Even if you use a standard 120v outlet in your home, you'll be saving a ton of time and emissions.
Teslas already only need about one overnight charge a week (depending on driving habits) out of a standard 120v outlet.
brah homes in US and Canada already have a 240V supply, the outlets supplying your clothes drier and air conditioner condenser for example. AFAIK there are 2 channels supplying 120V 60hz at different phases, and they can be combined to produce 240V
post 1557120061 07-25-2018, 07:01 AM
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#120
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Originally Posted By Lawlstud⏩
Put your money where your mouth is, show us your shorts.
Lol, thats fair. I said the same thing to people who said trump was going to ruin the market. However, if tesla was considered to be such a solid company, PUTS that expire for the end of the year shouldnt be as high as they are, no?

I would short Tesla but i have all my money long in companies that have given me good returns. Plus Elon just has to announce an electric pick up truck or some other car that he has no plans on developing for the next ten years and the stock will shoot up due to hype and a short squeeze. No thanks.
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