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Forum » Dud what's going on with Alan Aragon ?
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Thread: Dud what's going on with Alan Aragon ?

post 1560062221 08-30-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted By Maylie⏩
The only one saying that here is you.

He said sexual harassment can be just as bad, not that it was in this particular instance.
There is a reason to why we use different words to describe similar things. It's because those things are different from one another, if they weren't then there wouldn't be a need to use different words.

There is a difference between murder and manslaughter and there sure as fuk is a difference between sexual assault and sexual misconduct or harassment. You people are acting like Aragon assaulted and/or raped somebody, when "all" he did was drunkenly hitting on chicks that didn't wanna bang him. I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions, he's just a drunk nerd trying to fuk girls. It might make the girls in question highly uncomfortable and that's obviously wrong and fukked up, but do we really need to publicly crucify the guy??
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post 1560062501 08-30-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
There is a reason to why we use different words to describe similar things. It's because those things are different from one another, if they weren't then there wouldn't be a need to use different words.

There is a difference between murder and manslaughter and there sure as fuk is a difference between sexual assault and sexual misconduct or harassment. You people are acting like Aragon assaulted and/or raped somebody, when "all" he did was drunkenly hitting on chicks that didn't wanna bang him. I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions, he's just a drunk nerd trying to fuk girls. It might make the girls in question highly uncomfortable and that's obviously wrong and fukked up, but do we really need to publicly crucify the guy??
I hear you on the differences, but there was touching involved as well, to my understanding, not just verbal exchange. Do I think that is as bad as true sexual assault? Of course not. It's not good, either, though.
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post 1560062681 08-30-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
There is a reason to why we use different words to describe similar things. It's because those things are different from one another, if they weren't then there wouldn't be a need to use different words.

There is a difference between murder and manslaughter and there sure as fuk is a difference between sexual assault and sexual misconduct or harassment. You people are acting like Aragon assaulted and/or raped somebody, when "all" he did was drunkenly hitting on chicks that didn't wanna bang him. I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions, he's just a drunk nerd trying to fuk girls. It might make the girls in question highly uncomfortable and that's obviously wrong and fukked up, but do we really need to publicly crucify the guy??
If this was an isolated incident i'd see your point.

But it seems he's done this a lot before, and he's had several people attempt to intervene and tell him it's not okay and he needs to sort himself out, and he's also persisted when women have told him he's making them feel uncomfortable not just with words but with touching and stroking inappropriately... not to mention he has a wife - he's had multiple opportunities to stop this behaviour and has been made fully aware that his actions are not okay. Not only that, he's attempting to use his position of influence/trust as a professional to sexually harass women, and if 'carolina' is to be believed, he also attempted to discredit her and destroy her career so nobody would find out (although i'm not sure if i believe this part 100% yet.. i'll be waiting on evidence to come out/some people to at least corroborate this part of her story). Remember, this isn't some night club full of drunk skanks, this is a seminar that is meant to be educational; certainly not a place you would expect to be sexually harassed.

I hate the #metoo movement, but this is one of the cases where quite frankly it seems justified. I'd be waiting for evidence if he hadn't pretty much admitted it himself, and given the most half assed apologies possible.

Oh and again i dunno why you keep comparing it to sexual assault - i don't think anybody else in this thread has said they're the same thing unless i'm missing something :/
post 1560062951 08-30-2018, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
Miscers wife comes home from her work conference

Wife: Honey, I was groped and sexually harassed by the key note speaker at my conference

Miscer: Well, what did you do to cause this? Was it really that bad though? I mean the key note speaker is a really well respected professional. I would hate to ruin his career over this. Let's reserve judgement until all the facts come out
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post 1560063131 08-30-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted By TappingTheZen⏩
He was also rubbing his fingers through her hair when he did it (apparently) and then she told him to stop, he stopped for 30 seconds and then resumed physical contact and telling her he wanted to smack dat ass.

If he would have stopped after she expressed her disinterest the first time, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion but he did not. This is not normal human behaviour and is absolutely wrong and creepy.
100%
Who's saying it's 'as bad as sexual assault'?... because it's not as bad as sexual assault, it's okay? Is that what you're saying?
Did I fukking say that it was okay? Why does everything have to be black or white?

Alan absolutely fukked up and nobody is denying that, but the witch hunt that is going on in social media right now is absolutely ridiculous and disproportionate to what he actually did. That's my whole point. Y'all are acting like he's a rapist and a horrible human being and I disagree with that consensus.
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post 1560063261 08-30-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
There is a reason to why we use different words to describe similar things. It's because those things are different from one another, if they weren't then there wouldn't be a need to use different words.

There is a difference between murder and manslaughter and there sure as fuk is a difference between sexual assault and sexual misconduct or harassment. You people are acting like Aragon assaulted and/or raped somebody, when "all" he did was drunkenly hitting on chicks that didn't wanna bang him. I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions, he's just a drunk nerd trying to fuk girls. It might make the girls in question highly uncomfortable and that's obviously wrong and fukked up, but do we really need to publicly crucify the guy??
Yes, we do because he has a clear pattern of behavior, lied about it, was called out by witnesses, tried to accuse the victims of lying...and because he is an influential figure who people look up to. If he gets a pass, we're sanctioning something that is flat out wrong.

What are you missing here? The facts or an empathy chip for someone other than this narcissist?
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post 1560063271 08-30-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
There is a reason to why we use different words to describe similar things. It's because those things are different from one another, if they weren't then there wouldn't be a need to use different words.

There is a difference between murder and manslaughter and there sure as fuk is a difference between sexual assault and sexual misconduct or harassment. You people are acting like Aragon assaulted and/or raped somebody, when "all" he did was drunkenly hitting on chicks that didn't wanna bang him. I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions, he's just a drunk nerd trying to fuk girls. It might make the girls in question highly uncomfortable and that's obviously wrong and fukked up, but do we really need to publicly crucify the guy??
The only person that's confusing things here is you

If he was a drunk nerd that went out for a drive and killed someone, do we really need to crucify the guy? I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions
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post 1560063341 08-30-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
100%



Did I fukking say that it was okay? Why does everything have to be black or white?

Alan absolutely fukked up and nobody is denying that, but the witch hunt that is going on in social media right now is absolutely ridiculous and disproportionate to what he actually did. That's my whole point. Y'all are acting like he's a rapist and a horrible human being and I disagree with that consensus.
No, but you keep comparing it to sexual assault when as far as i can see, nobody else has made such a comparison, which seems like an attempt to downplay sexual harassment because its 'not as bad'. Why keep bringing up sexual assault otherwise?

I personally am not acting like he's a rapist, i can't speak for others; but i think he is clearly flawed and this behaviour does make me lose a huge deal of respect for him. No it's not as bad as rape or sexual assault, but it's still deplorable behaviour and changes my view on him as a human being.

I'm not sure a witch hunt is needed, but it absolutely SHOULD harm his career, because he was using his position of trust/respect to sexually harass people, and it was happening at seminars, which are his work. If you sexually harassed multiple women at your place of work, would you expect it to not harm your career?
post 1560063441 08-30-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
There is a reason to why we use different words to describe similar things. It's because those things are different from one another, if they weren't then there wouldn't be a need to use different words.

There is a difference between murder and manslaughter and there sure as fuk is a difference between sexual assault and sexual misconduct or harassment. You people are acting like Aragon assaulted and/or raped somebody, when "all" he did was drunkenly hitting on chicks that didn't wanna bang him. I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions, he's just a drunk nerd trying to fuk girls. It might make the girls in question highly uncomfortable and that's obviously wrong and fukked up, but do we really need to publicly crucify the guy??
If this dude held down a female and groped her....that's assault. Alan is already apologizing and blaming it on drinking which is weak as fuk, so I think that's why people believe the accusers.

#metoo is BS, but that doesn't mean creeps shouldn't get called out.
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post 1560063581 08-30-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
Alan absolutely fukked up and nobody is denying that, but the witch hunt that is going on in social media right now is absolutely ridiculous and disproportionate to what he
actually did. That's my whole point. Y'all are acting like he's a rapist and a horrible human being and I disagree with that consensus.
Did you happen to read Yvette's account of what happened that night?

By all accounts, she is telling the truth. Assuming she is, he's getting exactly what he deserves
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post 1560063611 08-30-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted By 128⏩
Why do people ask “who” instead of Googling wtf
Damn bro, when the hell did you come back?
post 1560064381 08-30-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted By RedRusty⏩
I hear you on the differences, but there was touching involved as well, to my understanding, not just verbal exchange. Do I think that is as bad as true sexual assault? Of course not. It's not good, either, though.
Definitely not good either. I hope he finds a way to make this right again.
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post 1560065831 08-30-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
Definitely not good either. I hope he finds a way to make this right again.
Interesting how the only one who you seem to care about in this scenario is him.

Spread your butt cheeks a bit wider for him why don't you.
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post 1560066211 08-30-2018, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted By TappingTheZen⏩
No, but you keep comparing it to sexual assault when as far as i can see, nobody else has made such a comparison, which seems like an attempt to downplay sexual harassment because its 'not as bad'. Why keep bringing up sexual assault otherwise?
I'm the one who brought up sexual assault? Really? Are we making up chit as we go now?
Originally Posted By arn710⏩
Originally Posted By Austanian
That being said. Completely retarded that his career has been ruined over something that has literally happened to everyone.
Literally never sexually assaulted anyone. Literally very few people do this

Literally you're a fuking scum bag if you do
I personally am not acting like he's a rapist, i can't speak for others; but i think he is clearly flawed and this behaviour does make me lose a huge deal of respect for him. No it's not as bad as rape or sexual assault, but it's still deplorable behaviour and changes my view on him as a human being.

I'm not sure a witch hunt is needed, but it absolutely SHOULD harm his career, because he was using his position of trust/respect to sexually harass people, and it was happening at seminars, which are his work. If you sexually harassed multiple women at your place of work, would you expect it to not harm your career?
It absolutely is fukked up behavior and I'm not condoning it. And it HAS affected his work, he got kicked out of the conference and most people are gonna think twice before inviting him over again.

But the people who are now editing him out of their articles and books are imo taking that chit way too far imo.
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post 1560066271 08-30-2018, 09:42 AM
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I love how in this day and age, every person with a Twitter account is suddenly an informed juror and has all necessary facts to render a verdict on something they have zero first hand knowledge of.

We should just hold all trials on social media, and abolish the court system altogether. #Vox2020
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post 1560066441 08-30-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted By VoxExMachina⏩
I love how in this day and age, every person with a Twitter account is suddenly an informed juror and has all necessary facts to render a verdict on something they have zero first hand knowledge of.

We should just hold all trials on social media, and abolish the court system altogether. #Vox2020
Raider already said this wasn't going to trial.

Meaning that the court of public opinion is all there is.
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post 1560066491 08-30-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
The only person that's confusing things here is you

If he was a drunk nerd that went out for a drive and killed someone, do we really need to crucify the guy? I highly doubt that there was any malice behind his actions
We comparing drinking and driving to drunkenly hitting on women?
post 1560066641 08-30-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted By Maylie⏩
Raider already said this wasn't going to trial.

Meaning that the court of public opinion is all there is.
The point still applies.

Social media lynch mobs run rampant these days, and everyone loves the drama of weighing in on issues which they have no actual knowledge of.
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post 1560066951 08-30-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted By VoxExMachina⏩
I love how in this day and age, every person with a Twitter account is suddenly an informed juror and has all necessary facts to render a verdict on something they have zero first hand knowledge of.

We should just hold all trials on social media, and abolish the court system altogether. #Vox2020
That's pretty much already happening in these types of cases.
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post 1560067041 08-30-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted By Kirra⏩
I'm the one who brought up sexual assault? Really? Are we making up chit as we go now?
I said unless i'm missing something earlier; you're the only one i've seen keep saying it's not the same as sexual assault and comparing the two, when i can't see it mentioned by anyone else prior to you. I'm not making anything up, just seems you came out of nowhere saying WELL ITS NOT THE SAME AS SEXUAL ASSAULT... well no chit, who said it is?
post 1560067091 08-30-2018, 09:53 AM
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Need to read it. I've only read a few people in the industry respond.
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post 1560070871 08-30-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted By redraider86⏩
That post referred to a thread that was deleted, in which miscers continued to call the women who were making allegations liars, whores, gold-diggers, and a whole host of other delightful names. It's completely fair to say it was insane and victim blame-y, and I stand by that statement.

I'm still confused on the conviction part, though. I've heard that thrown around a good bit. None of this is ever going to trial, so what conviction would you like to see happen before people talk about it?
I linked a news article in my previous post which clearly shows a person that was accused of sexual misconduct allegations that went into a trial and were proven to be false. There is a very large difference between us saying "If this is true, this is awful. What role did alcohol play in this behavior? Why did none of the persons who suffered any of this report it to an authority, before, and simply spread this around in a way that their friends are coming out of the woodwork now trying to corroborate the personal claims as valid testimony?"

To be clear: that previous thread (I didn't see it) was deleted for a valid reason. But there is a very large gap, as numerous precedents show, from 'saying something happened' and whether or not this actually happened. And I have very little sympathy for someone who does not report a grope - because, as previous news shows, gropes can and are reported and have consequences for the groper (or ought to, in some cases).
Originally Posted By 128⏩
And he basically admits to it but blames it on the alcohol
If he has admitted it, could you please link the information here? No one has. That reddit post linked comments on different articles saying different things which included 'alcohol problems and bad behavior' but please do let me know if he has stated it. If so, I retract my criticism of the public outcry which (as far as I can see) makes the mistaken inference from fact (someone saying X is so) to value (that X is so). This was the case of Jian Ghomeshi - most Canadians reading this know what I am talking about here. And he's not the only one.

I am not saying that the public outcry never shows that something happened - I'm saying that proof is needed.
Originally Posted By redraider86⏩
Sexual harassment isn't criminal. The victims could bring a case civilly if they wanted to. However, if it involves unwanted touching and physical intimidation, it can be sexual assault, which is a crime. As far as I can tell, only one person has alleged he held her in place, and unwanted forceful touching is a big deal. That person could absolutely report this to the police. I don't know why they aren't going to the police - I'm not them, and I'm not making the case that they should or shouldn't. A victim also cannot press charges, though a victim can make the decision to report it/make an official statement. It is up to the DA to decide if they want to pursue a case. My point is that being allowed to discuss and have consequences for bad behavior only after a legal verdict is reachedwhen the perpetrator himself admitted to doing these thingsis silly.
Then my comments on this specific place don't apply - if he has indeed come out and said that he has inappropriately touched a woman (or women) before. However a lot of what I'm reading makes no real reference to this actually having happened. And the public lynching is really, really a mob mentality thing that pisses all over due process which anyone deserves in a functioning democracy.
post 1560071231 08-30-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
If he has admitted it, could you please link the information here? No one has. That reddit post linked comments on different articles saying different things which included 'alcohol problems and bad behavior' but please do let me know if he has stated it. If so, I retract my criticism of the public outcry which (as far as I can see) makes the mistaken inference from fact (someone saying X is so) to value (that X is so). This was the case of Jian Ghomeshi - most Canadians reading this know what I am talking about here. And he's not the only one.
He posted a half assed apology on ******** that was deleted

The main accuser is a very reputable person, several people have confirmed her accounts and he was ousted from the conference.

I'm all for due process but what more do you need here?

He's not being thrown in jail. People are free to associate with him as they see fit
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post 1560071251 08-30-2018, 10:48 AM
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I guess we are now in the era of #believeeveryaccusation. With the internet everyone has a voice these days. And the masses follow. It’s almost like people forget there is this human ability most of us should have called critical thinking. If the evidence is so overwhelming against him, sue him, that’s what the courts are for. Not leverage your followers base to put a guy in his career grave. I’m not even saying he did or didn’t do something. It’s highly alarming that most people are so quick to jump to a conclusion either way based on chronology of a bunch of unverified events.
They said she's gone too far this time

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post 1560072741 08-30-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
If he has admitted it, could you please link the information here? No one has.


Read everythinghere(that's #8).
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post 1560073021 08-30-2018, 11:13 AM
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Lol as people on a fitness forum not knowing who he is.
Athletics > Aesthetics
I guess its time to start training again.
- No longer in a long term relationship crew because sloots gun sloot.
- Finishing a degree at age 30 crew
post 1560073121 08-30-2018, 11:15 AM
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#177
  1. sloop
  2. HEY NOW
  1. sloop
  2. HEY NOW
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Originally Posted By VoxExMachina⏩
The point still applies.

Social media lynch mobs run rampant these days, and everyone loves the drama of weighing in on issues which they have no actual knowledge of.
To be fair though, when you plaster your personal business on social media, youkiiiiiindahave to expect the outcry might not be so favorable, agreed?
post 1560073231 08-30-2018, 11:16 AM
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#178
  1. TaeBoNinja
  2. Vagina Whisperer
  1. TaeBoNinja
  2. Vagina Whisperer
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Originally Posted By VoxExMachina⏩
I love how in this day and age, every person with a Twitter account is suddenly an informed juror and has all necessary facts to render a verdict on something they have zero first hand knowledge of.

We should just hold all trials on social media, and abolish the court system altogether. #Vox2020
Eh, normally would agree, but dude basically admitted this sh!t happened and blamed it on drinking.
6'3 Master Race
GOATCal Crew
No Pillow Crew
Pureblood Crew
post 1560073351 08-30-2018, 11:17 AM
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#179
  1. Ratfish
  1. Ratfish
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legally speaking, he should have just gone NC on the internet
Make Europe Germany Again
post 1560073491 08-30-2018, 11:19 AM
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#180
  1. Aristotelian
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  1. Aristotelian
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Originally Posted By Luc1fer⏩


Read everythinghere(that's #8).
Thanks. @arn it is because this hinges on "x said so". So, destroying someone's career and personal life based on an apology that didnt specifically refer to sexually inappropriate behavior is extreme.

Having said that, it doesn't look very good for him at this stage given the multiple angles where people are saying he did. He would have a tough time explaining this unless his "mistreatment of other people due to alcohol" created awful grudges but hopefully there aren't many monsters that would use this approach to ruin him.
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