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Forum » Wide-grip pull-ups are USELESS?
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Thread: Wide-grip pull-ups are USELESS?

post 1560980671 09-11-2018, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted By PiscesNinja⏩
The argument isn't that they don't work for building lats.

The argument is that they're inefficient, and you're leaving free curls on the table by not using a narrower grip.

Ever heard of "getting results in spite of, not because of"?
How long have you lifted?

DYEL?
fist yourself
post 1560981781 09-11-2018, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted By DemiBrah⏩
When you read this, it makes sense to your brain?
LMFAO. this..
Originally Posted By PiscesNinja⏩
They both work the back equally. It's just one works the biceps more. (Close grip)
How does that even make sense. Say wide-grip works 80% back, and 20% bis. Close-grip works more BI's as you say but works an equal amount of back. So you saying close-grip works 80% back and 30% bis?

See how it goes over 100%, means ur a spastic OP


EDIT: to add onto what busta is saying ^^^

wide grip pull-ups all day everyday
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post 1560982131 09-11-2018, 02:46 AM
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Why the **** would anyone with a working brain take anything Jason stupid blaha has to say in regards to bodybuilding? BLOWS my mind. Disregard anything he says and just do what works
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post 1560982211 09-11-2018, 02:51 AM
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Buncha nerds taking over bodybuilding. "Herp derp this science article I read says you get 10% more gains from doing ____ this ____ way. Any other method is inferior!" Meanwhile, the guys who actually sweat in the gym have tried everything and do what's best for their body.
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post 1560982361 09-11-2018, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted By PiscesNinja⏩
They both work the back equally. It's just one works the biceps more. (Close grip)
post 1560982381 09-11-2018, 03:04 AM
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@Thread, definitely not useless, just research shows neutral grip may be better for lat development.
Originally Posted By DemiBrah⏩
If one works 90% back, and the other is 50/50, which one is better for developing just back?
Not necessarily true... studies have shown neutral grip are actually better for lat development, something to do with the range of motion the lat moves through on a neutral grip pullup, and the extra volume/load.
post 1560982481 09-11-2018, 03:09 AM
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[QUOTE=hbhorat post_id=1560981781]LMFAO. this..



How does that even make sense. Say wide-grip works 80% back, and 20% bis. Close-grip works more BI's as you say but works an equal amount of back. So you saying close-grip works 80% back and 30% bis?

See how it goes over 100%, means ur a spastic OP


EDIT: to add onto what busta is saying ^^^

wide grip pull-ups all day everyday
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Jmi9oLy.jpg[/im][/QUOTE]100% of 10 is 10.
100% of 11 is 11....not 10.

There is more range of motion in narrow grip so technically you can say both work lats just as much, but only one works the biceps more, but it's not the same motion anyway.

With wide gripe your elbows are out to the side and you are working your upper lats more and this will give you a wider looking lat, but if you don't ever do narrow grips your tapper will be ...dramatic.

With narrow grip, your elbows are more forward and you are working your lower lats more. So you can say narrow grips activates just as much lats as wide and it does way more biceps, but the lats mostly worked are lower. I think you'll still get a V tapper out of it, but the tapper from upper to lower will be less dramatic.
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post 1560982681 09-11-2018, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted By DemiBrah⏩
If one works 90% back, and the other is 50/50, which one is better for developing just back?
dis
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post 1560982791 09-11-2018, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted By Casca⏩
100% of 10 is 10.
100% of 11 is 11....not 10.

There is more range of motion in narrow grip so technically you can say both work lats just as much, but only one works the biceps more, but it's not the same motion anyway.

With wide gripe your elbows are out to the side and you are working your upper lats more and this will give you a wider looking lat, but if you don't ever do narrow grips your tapper will be ...dramatic.

With narrow grip, your elbows are more forward and you are working your lower lats more. So you can say narrow grips activates just as much lats as wide and it does way more biceps, but the lats mostly worked are lower. I think you'll still get a V tapper out of it, but the tapper from upper to lower will be less dramatic.
lat insertion points
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post 1560982851 09-11-2018, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted By xLostxAngelx⏩
There are two major motor functions to the muscle fiber. Stretching out to push, and contracting in to pull.
bru I know you spent time writing a long post, but this is simply wrong.
Muscles don't push.
<<<<Back to chapter 1


The long story short has already been told, chins/supinated/neutral/narrow pulls allow more ROM and are "easier" because of the mechanical disadvantage (hands wider than shoulders) and less elbow flexion (bicep involvement) when doing wide grip pull ups. This is like arguing deadlift vs sumo pull for "working x muscle", they are not the same movement.
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post 1560983161 09-11-2018, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted By hashish⏩
lat insertion points
genetics.
Abs are one muscle...rectus abdominus, but supposedly there are exercises that targets the upper more than the lower and exercises that targets the lower more than the upper. I dunno, maybe it's the size/length of the lats and abs that certain movements targets the "upper" or "lower" more than the other. I can definitely feel that when I do a crunch vs leg raise.
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post 1560983291 09-11-2018, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted By Casca⏩
100% of 10 is 10.
100% of 11 is 11....not 10.

There is more range of motion in narrow grip so technically you can say both work lats just as much, but only one works the biceps more, but it's not the same motion anyway.

With wide gripe your elbows are out to the side and you are working your upper lats more and this will give you a wider looking lat, but if you don't ever do narrow grips your tapper will be ...dramatic.

With narrow grip, your elbows are more forward and you are working your lower lats more. So you can say narrow grips activates just as much lats as wide and it does way more biceps, but the lats mostly worked are lower. I think you'll still get a V tapper out of it, but the tapper from upper to lower will be less dramatic.
Blows my mind how people genuinely think **** like this. You really think the difference is that dramatic? You really think you would look much differentat allif you only did wider grip compared to if you only did narrower grip? You wouldn't. They are very similar movements, your muscles aren't that reactive or transformable. It's like people who think Decline benching will give them a saggy chest or that Incline will work their upper chest more than regular bench to any significant degree. It won't. Your muscles contract and relax, regardless of the angle. Any effective difference between such movements is miniscule.
post 1560983571 09-11-2018, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted By TheJediBrah⏩
Blows my mind how people genuinely think **** like this. You really think the difference is that dramatic? You really think you would look much differentat allif you only did wider grip compared to if you only did narrower grip? You wouldn't. They are very similar movements, your muscles aren't that reactive or transformable. It's like people who think Decline benching will give them a saggy chest or that Incline will work their upper chest more than regular bench to any significant degree. It won't. Your muscles contract and relax, regardless of the angle. Any effective difference between such movements is miniscule.
This is complete horeschit.

Changing GRIP ALONE makes significant differences to how a muscle group is worked.

Even something as small as thumb over rather than throttle grip makes a difference.

So changing the width/angle/ROM and all sorts of other variations can make huge differences to how a muscle groups gets worked.
fist yourself
post 1560983771 09-11-2018, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted By TheJediBrah⏩
Blows my mind how people genuinely think **** like this. You really think the difference is that dramatic? You really think you would look much differentat allif you only did wider grip compared to if you only did narrower grip? You wouldn't. They are very similar movements, your muscles aren't that reactive or transformable. It's like people who think Decline benching will give them a saggy chest or that Incline will work their upper chest more than regular bench to any significant degree. It won't. Your muscles contract and relax, regardless of the angle. Any effective difference between such movements is miniscule.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...1.2015.1022605

"The sEMG of upper pectoralis displayed no difference during any of the bench conditions when examining the complete concentric contraction, however differences during 26–50% contraction duration were found for both the 30° [122.5 ± 10.1% maximal voluntary isometric contraction (MVIC)] and 45° (124 ± 9.1% MVIC) bench condition, resulting in greater sEMG compared to horizontal (98.2 ± 5.4% MVIC) and –15 (96.1 ± 5.5% MVIC). The sEMG of lower pectoralis was greater during –15° (100.4 ± 5.7% MVIC), 30° (86.6 ± 4.8% MVIC) and horizontal (100.1 ± 5.2% MVIC) bench conditions compared to the 45° (71.9 ± 4.5% MVIC) for the whole concentric contraction"


https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/F...ns_and.27.aspx
"Average EMG muscle activation values (%MVIC) were as follows: latissimus dorsi (117-130%), biceps brachii (78-96%), infraspinatus (71-79%), lower trapezius (45-56%), pectoralis major (44-57%), erector spinae (39-41%), and external oblique (31-35%). The pectoralis major and biceps brachii had significantly higher EMG activation during the chin-up than during the pull-up, whereas the lower trapezius was significantly more active during the pull-up. "
post 1560983991 09-11-2018, 04:32 AM
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Wide grip works your forearms and brachialis more.
post 1560984181 09-11-2018, 04:38 AM
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They're not useless, but shoulder width is going to be better for alignment for most anyone to target the lats better with more weight
post 1560984391 09-11-2018, 04:45 AM
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hmm... you have the close grip and you have no wide grip, you got a problem building...wait a minute. You have the wide grip, and you have no bis, you got a problem building your bis. You have the wide...you have the close grip and you don't have the wide grip, the wide grip, it is easier to build. So if you have the close grip and you don't have the wide grip, it is easier to build the wide grip. You have the wide grip and you don't have the back, you got a problem building the close grip... No, you don't understand. You have the wide grip, but you don't have the biceps, you got a problem building downstairs. You got the up- bis on the bottom, it is easier to build on the top, so you don't have much as a problem.
post 1560984481 09-11-2018, 04:50 AM
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I do all grips because they hit the muscles at a slightly different angle and motion.
post 1560984641 09-11-2018, 04:56 AM
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Wait, people actually take this person seriously in regard to bodybuilding advice?

I thought this person just trolled fitness youtubers
Training log: http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=165829701
post 1560984701 09-11-2018, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted By BustaCapp⏩
How long have you lifted?

DYEL?
5 nearly 6 years. What does that have to do with what we're discussing?
Originally Posted By hbhorat⏩
LMFAO. this..



How does that even make sense. Say wide-grip works 80% back, and 20% bis. Close-grip works more BI's as you say but works an equal amount of back. So you saying close-grip works 80% back and 30% bis?

See how it goes over 100%, means ur a spastic OP


EDIT: to add onto what busta is saying ^^^

wide grip pull-ups all day everyday
The fact that you're asking this means you don't understand the basics of exercise science
post 1560984761 09-11-2018, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted By PiscesNinja⏩
The fact that you're asking this means you don't understand the basics of exercise science
Was a rhetorical question brah, I think you're either trolling or your IQ is actual sub 80 (srs)
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post 1560984831 09-11-2018, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted By PiscesNinja⏩
5 nearly 6 years. What does that have to do with what we're discussing?
Quite a lot actually if you have no IRL experience of lifting.
fist yourself
post 1560985081 09-11-2018, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted By hbhorat⏩
Was a rhetorical question brah, I think you're either trolling or your IQ is actual sub 80 (srs)
That's one hell of a long rhetorical question.
post 1560985201 09-11-2018, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
Wait, people actually take this person seriously in regard to bodybuilding advice?
Just another day on the Misc. Create threads and try to be controversial/sensational to get responses, positive or negative. Feed that attention craving desire...

Just like those threads that go 'DEADLIFTS R USELESS!!' or 'LMAO IF YOU LIFT HEAVY' etc.
post 1560985311 09-11-2018, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
Just another day on the Misc. Create threads and try to be controversial/sensational to get responses, positive or negative. Feed that attention craving desire...

Just like those threads that go 'DEADLIFTS R USELESS!!' or 'LMAO IF YOU LIFT HEAVY' etc.
Nope, trying to get second opinions. Nice try though.
post 1560985381 09-11-2018, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
Just another day on the Misc. Create threads and try to be controversial/sensational to get responses, positive or negative. Feed that attention craving desire...

Just like those threads that go 'DEADLIFTS R USELESS!!' or 'LMAO IF YOU LIFT HEAVY' etc.
I'm no fan of Jason Blaha, but it's not actually that controversial. There's a lot of evidence that suggests neutral grip is superior for back development for a number of reasons... i'm not saying it is, but it isn't that controversial and it's definitely worth delving into the research, trying it and drawing your own conclusions.

Obviously calling wide grip pullups useless is mildly retarded though.
post 1560985481 09-11-2018, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted By xLostxAngelx⏩
When you pull your arm up between the two positions, you might also notice that when your arm is tucked to the side of your body, it enables your bicep to work through a longer range of motion. Whereas when the arm comes forward, the range of motion is shortened. This shortened range of motion stunts the activation on the fibers, and is rooted in the mechanics of how the bicep and the tricep are connected through the forearm. As your arm comes forward, the tension wraps around the forearm, and then stretches the tricep intuitively from the elbow. It's all downhill from there.
Inadvertently forgot to mention, that the range of motion on curls where you bring your arm forward is also limited by the fact that, when you descend, your elbow quickly reaches its full extension, begins to contra-flex, and hyper-extend the arm in a dangerous fashion. When your arm is tucked to the side of your body, it's able to move along the entire portion of the vertical equilibrium‒some 180 degrees. The bicep curl is a 180 degree movement. When you bring your arm forward, your trajectory is limited to some 70 degrees or so. You're missing about 100 degrees of motion.
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post 1560985591 09-11-2018, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted By xLostxAngelx⏩
Inadvertently forgot to mention, that the range of motion on curls where you bring your arm forward is also limited by the fact that, when you descend, your elbow quickly reaches its full extension, begins to contra-flex, and hyper-extend the arm in a dangerous fashion. When you arm is tucked to the side of your body, it's able to move along the entire portion of the vertical equilibrium‒some 180 degrees. The bicep curl is a 180 degree movement. When you bring your arm forward, your trajectory is limited to some 70 degrees or so. You're missing about 100 degrees of motion.
You need to use laymens' terms if you want to get your point across effectively. What on Earth does "contra-flex" mean?
post 1560985701 09-11-2018, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted By PiscesNinja⏩
Nope, trying to get second opinions. Nice try though.
Orly?
Originally Posted By TappingTheZen⏩
Obviously calling wide grip pullupsuseless is mildly retarded though.
That's my point. Wondering about levels of reading comprehension these days, or is writing a thread title ending in "USELESS" not entail a level of sensationalism, OP? Keep mashing that F5 button - theattention, it feels so very good, doesn't it?

https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...6&pagenumber=1
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...1&pagenumber=1

Etc. OP, you're looking for second opinions, chose a sensationalist title for the thread (to garner more clicks, congrats), and even years ago people were commenting on this very forum that this thread keeps coming up over and over again. Congrats - due diligence to source second opinions has been well executed.

And for ease of reference, the best response in those threads (in my opinion) is this one, which still applies to this thread:
Originally Posted By ironwill2008⏩
The variant thatyoufeel working the most in the target muscle--your lats.



IMO, the best contraction is to be had from the best prestretch. The best prestretch for lats occurs when the arms are directly over the shoulders, not out to the sides. But as with all exercise variants, YMMV.


Experiment.
post 1560986191 09-11-2018, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted By Aristotelian⏩
Orly?



That's my point. Wondering about levels of reading comprehension these days, or is writing a thread title ending in "USELESS" not entail a level of sensationalism, OP? Keep mashing that F5 button - theattention, it feels so very good, doesn't it?

https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...6&pagenumber=1
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...1&pagenumber=1

Etc. OP, you're looking for second opinions, chose a sensationalist title for the thread (to garner more clicks, congrats), and even years ago people were commenting on this very forum that this thread keeps coming up over and over again. Congrats - due diligence to source second opinions has been well executed.

And for ease of reference, the best response in those threads (in my opinion) is this one, which still applies to this thread:
Cool, so you can dig up threads from 2006. Because it's not like we can have found any new data intwelve years, right?

I'll admit I do spend half my time on here trolling. But the other half is time spent discussing serious training.

I said "useless" because the theory in the OP suggests that there are only 3 reasons why they *wouldn't* be useless:

1. You want to break the world record for wide grip pull-ups

2. You want to build a huge back but retain puny(er) biceps

3. You want to spend more time in the gym doing curls
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