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Forum » Misc Firearms Crew LXXIV - Cutting ties, but vas deferens does it make?
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Thread: Misc Firearms Crew LXXIV - Cutting ties, but vas deferens does it make?

post 1571858811 01-22-2019, 05:18 PM
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#361
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Originally Posted By LinuxJon⏩
We're in agreement that it's a right that the government has no right to infringe. They've infringed it. I choose to acknowledge the current reality and function as best I can within that framework. If you want to go the whole sovereign-citizen route and pretend the current real world state of law and politics doesn't matter b/c principle, I guess go ahead.
What the hell are you talking about? Sovereign what?

Acknowledging that the current status is not ideal doesn't do a damn thing to change what it ought to be or what would be best.
Originally Posted By LinuxJon⏩
OFF DUTY they shouldn't be allowed anything normal civilians are not.

ON DUTY they absolutely shouldn't be limited by normal firearms restrictions for their jurisdiction. Why? Because other people aren't being tasked with injecting themselves into dangerous situations that they are not otherwise involved in. If someone takes a bunch of hostages at the 7/Eleven down the street, the guy who lives across the way doesn't have an obligation to enter that situation. The cop on duty does. Is this really that difficult of concept?

Also, no, I don't want a compromise. I just don't want even MORE gun laws. Not aimed at civilians, not aimed at cops, none of it. Arguing to limit cops as some sort of payback for our current bad gun laws is stupid and isn't going to help anything.
Police don't have an obligation to enter that situation, either. Says who? Says the Supreme Court.

If all of the police who respond need to have X in order to deal with that, why the **** should the victims who are already there and already in it, before anybody even has the opportunity to respond, be denied the ability to have X? Sense, that doesn't ****ing make any.

This isn't about "MORE" gun laws, it's about equal application of laws.It's not "MORE" laws to simply apply the laws to everybody. In fact, if anything, it's fewer laws or at least shorter laws with fewer words that are easier to understand because all you have to do is delete the exceptions component.

Payback? WTF are you talking about?Are you really too stupid to understand the arguments put forth, or are you choosing to create a strawman because you know you're wrong?

Get your gun control ass out of this thread already.
post 1571859431 01-22-2019, 05:27 PM
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Posted elsewhere but thought you nerds would like it.
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post 1571859661 01-22-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted By NuggzTheNinja⏩
If we are talking legal gun owners carrying lawfully, and define "murder" in a way that describes the act and not the court's finding (which almost always favors law enforcement), I'd be willing to bet the numbers are pretty much equal.

If we are talking ghetto goblins who buy stolen guns, sure, that number is high as **** compared to cops. "Pretty much 0" for the law enforcement side is not really defensible unless you define "murder" as a conviction - we all know that cops can (and frequently do) kick the wrong door, murder someone, and not even be charged for property damage.
The court findings favor law enforcement because law enforcement doesn't screw up nearly as much as the media makes it seem like. Pretty much half the shootings the public thinks are downright murder are actually completely justified. I'm not going to count a good shooting to protect someone else or stop a threat as "murder".

I don't know the exact numbers it's been awhile but it's about 50/50 give or take when it comes to criminals committing crimes with illegal or legally possessed firearms, and like you said that's taking into account all the "ghetto goblins" who buy stolen guns.

In the situation you described, the police officer isn't charged with property damage but the city will still payout.
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post 1571859771 01-22-2019, 05:30 PM
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post 1571860071 01-22-2019, 05:34 PM
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#365
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Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
The court findings favor law enforcement because law enforcement doesn't screw up nearly as much as the media makes it seem like. Pretty much half the shootings the public thinks are downright murder are actually completely justified. I'm not going to count a good shooting to protect someone else or stop a threat as "murder".

I don't know the exact numbers it's been awhile but it's about 50/50 give or take when it comes to criminals committing crimes with illegal or legally possessed firearms, and like you said that's taking into account all the "ghetto goblins" who buy stolen guns.

In the situation you described, the police officer isn't charged with property damage but the city will still payout.
**** the media, and we should start charging people, both the media and private parties using social media, who intentionally misrepresent/deceive/lie/clip a video down to push an agenda and get people pissed off when nothing done was even wrong.
post 1571860751 01-22-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
There's plenty of people who discharge their weapon in public when there is no deadly threat. It's not extremely common but it's not surprising at all when it happens. The amount of times an on duty cop has actually murdered someone is pretty much 0 compared to the amount of times a random person has murdered someone with a handgun.
I do not think your average law abiding gun owner (or to have an actual group, concealed carriers) murders anymore than law enforcement. There is simply no good argument that any group of civilians should be exempt from gun laws, all the while imprisoning fellow civilians using the same weapons/mags. It's just insane.
I've been consistent in saying cops should not be exempt from any gun laws when off duty, only been talking about on duty when I believe they should be exempt from certain gun laws, mainly the magazine cap, which I disagree with in the first place.
We're in agreement with off duty at least, but that's also not the case, obviously. The retired police exemption is the most retarded though. No idea why retired cops can be exempt.
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post 1571860791 01-22-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
**** the media, and we should start charging people, both the media and private parties using social media, who intentionally misrepresent/deceive/lie/clip a video down to push an agenda and get people pissed off when nothing done was even wrong.
Agree. They should go after people for libel/slander more, but it's hard to prove intent with what. It's ridiculous how biased the media is allowed to be though. They're given special privileges as members of the media because they are supposed to in theory report things fairly without too much obvious bias. We've gotten pretty far away from that now.
Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
There is that famous stat/fact where Texas CHL holders have a lower arrest rate than off duty police officers.

Imagine how bad off duty officers have to act to get arrested and think about that stat lol
I've arrested off duty cops. Never arrested a guy who was legally carrying.
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post 1571861101 01-22-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted By RThoe⏩
I do not think your average law abiding gun owner (or to have an actual group, concealed carriers) murders anymore than law enforcement. There is simply no good argument that any group of civilians should be exempt from gun laws, all the while imprisoning fellow civilians using the same weapons/mags. It's just insane.



We're in agreement with off duty at least, but that's also not the case, obviously. The retired police exemption is the most retarded though. No idea why retired cops can be exempt.
There is that famous stat/fact where Texas CHL holders have a lower arrest rate than off duty police officers.

Imagine how bad off duty officers have to act to get arrested and think about that stat lol
post 1571861211 01-22-2019, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
The court findings favor law enforcement because law enforcement doesn't screw up nearly as much as the media makes it seem like. Pretty much half the shootings the public thinks are downright murder are actually completely justified. I'm not going to count a good shooting to protect someone else or stop a threat as "murder".

I don't know the exact numbers it's been awhile but it's about 50/50 give or take when it comes to criminals committing crimes with illegal or legally possessed firearms, and like you said that's taking into account all the "ghetto goblins" who buy stolen guns.

In the situation you described, the police officer isn't charged with property damage but the city will still payout.
Yeah, let's agree to disagree on why cops are let off the hook for murder. Some of the media blame game is wrong, some of it is completely accurate. We can agree that the media is garbage. We should also be able to agree that certain police shootings are completely unjustified, and that while we recognize that hot situations are hard to handle, civilians and LEO should be held to similar standards for the use of lethal force - right?

Also extremely skeptical on your 50/50 figure. Numbers from Pittsburgh indicate only 18% of guns were legally owned (and not necessarily legally carried).

More information in 09 Uniform Crime Report (upwards lf 90% of murders committed with illegal guns) and more discussion here:https://extranosalley.com/what-perce...nd-legal-guns/

Meanwhile, on no-knock warrants alone, something like 10% (according to this report:https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...t-web-rel1.pdf) hit the entirely wrong house.

General 2015 data here on police shootings and the circumstances:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ice-shootings/



I'll say this as nicely as possible - the court system is extremely...generous...when dealing with LEO. Cops slide for stuff that would get any regular Joe legal gun owner thrown in jail for murder. I would rather LEO not serve my area at all to be perfectly honest - I'm far more likely to be killed by these people "accidentally" (negligently) than I am to ever need their help. That's not the case for everybody though, and I'm sure when I'm old I'll appreciate good cops...we need some serious reform.
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post 1571861241 01-22-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted By RThoe⏩
I do not think your average law abiding gun owner (or to have an actual group, concealed carriers) murders anymore than law enforcement. There is simply no good argument that any group of civilians should be exempt from gun laws, all the while imprisoning fellow civilians using the same weapons/mags. It's just insane.



We're in agreement with off duty at least, but that's also not the case, obviously. The retired police exemption is the most retarded though. No idea why retired cops can be exempt.
Not going to look anything up, but I've personally been involved multiple homicide cases involving firearms (both legally and illegally owned) and not a single one involved an off duty police officer. No department I've worked at has even had an on duty police involved shooting while I've been there. Obviously policing isn't perfect though, California generally has really good background investigations but some of the chit I hear about from other states makes me wonder wtf is going on.

It is dumb though.
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post 1571862161 01-22-2019, 06:02 PM
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#371
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Originally Posted By NuggzTheNinja⏩
Yeah, let's agree to disagree on why cops are let off the hook for murder. Some of the media blame game is wrong, some of it is completely accurate.

Also extremely skeptical on your 50/50 figure. Numbers from Pittsburgh indicate only 18% of guns were legally owned (and not necessarily legally carried).

More information in 09 Uniform Crime Report (upwards lf 90% of murders committed with illegal guns) and more discussion here:https://extranosalley.com/what-perce...nd-legal-guns/

Meanwhile, on no-knock warrants alone, something like 10% (according to this report:https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...t-web-rel1.pdf) hit the entirely wrong house.

General 2015 data here on police shootings and the circumstances:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ice-shootings/
https://www.politifact.com/new-york/...-crime-rep-fa/
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/most-guns...tained-legally

First link says something around 40% and the second one just talks about mass shootings and most of those guns being legally purchased (80%).

Police hitting the wrong house definitely happens. Mistakes always happen. Like I said in an above post, sometimes the policies and procedures of other departments (mostly in other states) make me scratch my head. Better background checks, hiring more desirable candidates through increased pay and benefits would be a nice start. I know places like California don't have this problem as much because we get paid pretty good here which leads to better candidate pools, but it's definitely an issue in places where cops make like $15/hour. Whole other issue though, we can agree to disagree.
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post 1571862381 01-22-2019, 06:06 PM
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[QUOTE=fmylife4real post_id=1571858561]I really didn't feel like spending any time checking to see if anybody has posted this yet but..............................


Who's ready for the new TACTICAL Hi-Point?

[youtube]z6QNezEUW0k[youtube]

[b]Spoiler![/b][SPOILER][img]https://i.imgur.com/BtE9ggZ.gif[/img][/SPOILER][/QUOTE]it's about time!
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post 1571862551 01-22-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
There is that famous stat/fact where Texas CHL holders have a lower arrest rate than off duty police officers.

Imagine how bad off duty officers have to act to get arrested and think about that stat lol
That's crazy, but definitely not surprising lol.
Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
Not going to look anything up, but I've personally been involved multiple homicide cases involving firearms (both legally and illegally owned) and not a single one involved an off duty police officer. No department I've worked at has even had an on duty police involved shooting while I've been there. Obviously policing isn't perfect though, California generally has really good background investigations but some of the chit I hear about from other states makes me wonder wtf is going on.

It is dumb though.
I'd definitely bet those with a CCW permit have committed less murder than police officers, on or off duty. Not going to try to look, just my anecdotal belief.

However, I also don't think police are out there murdering people in high numbers by any means, not even close.
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post 1571862621 01-22-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
https://www.politifact.com/new-york/...-crime-rep-fa/
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/most-guns...tained-legally

First link says something around 40% and the second one just talks about mass shootings and most of those guns being legally purchased (80%).

Police hitting the wrong house definitely happens. Mistakes always happen. Like I said in an above post, sometimes the policies and procedures of other departments (mostly in other states) make me scratch my head. Better background checks, hiring more desirable candidates through increased pay and benefits would be a nice start. I know places like California don't have this problem as much because we get paid pretty good here which leads to better candidate pools, but it's definitely an issue in places where cops make like $15/hour. Whole other issue though, we can agree to disagree.
One of us read that link wrong bro...I was looking at this section -
Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh teamed up with the Pittsburgh Police Department in 2016 to look at almost 900 firearms recovered from crime scenes in 2008. They found the criminals connected to these firearms did not legally possess them in 80 percent of the cases.
Mass shootings are definitely a different beast altogether. I'm not surprised to hear that those are committed with legally owned guns...usually there's a significant mental health component. On the other hand, they account for an incredibly small percentage of gun deaths in the US...I ran the numbers one time and the odds of dying in a mass shooting are about the same as being struck by lightning.


One area I'd like to see improvement (and as much as it hurts to say this, Yeager talks about it) is in police training toward guns in general. For a long time, the training was gun = bad guy. The numbers about ~300 million guns in the US are from the 90s...I'd be surprised if that number isn't a billion now. So when you have, at the very last, a third of a billion guns, lots of people will be carrying them and have them in their homes. So, recognizing that a lot of houses have guns in them, I'd be a lot more careful about kicking down doors when it's a lot safer to just wait for the guy to go out for a pack of smokes.
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post 1571862761 01-22-2019, 06:12 PM
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Didn’t someone come in here a year or two ago and say that the Arsenal Strike One was going to dethrone Glock? I’ve still never seen one of them irl.
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post 1571863411 01-22-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
First link says something around 40%
It says

"In the 13 states with the fewest restrictions on gun ownership, 40 percent of inmates illegally obtained the gun they used, Webster said. Only about 13 percent purchased the gun from a store or pawn shop."

What states are those and who determines what their rank is by restrictions on gun ownership? Is that a citation I'm not seeing that explains how and why they picked just 13 states out of 50 to generate that number?

And this is based on a 2004 survey of inmates...talk about a sample bias and possible inaccurate reporting by the inmates.

It hten says

"In the other 37 states, including New York state, 60 percent of inmates illegally procured the gun they used, Webster said. "

Again, how were these states determined?

How many of the procurements that were illegal in the 37 state group would have been legal in the 13 state group?

I don't think that 40% this one guy made up using 15 year old (at this point) surveys means jack **** or is likely to be an accurate representation of anything.


And citing the 'giffords center to prevent gun violence', yeah, surely no bias in any of this...lol


Forty percent of state prison inmates admitted they obtained the gun illegally on the black market, from a drug dealer, or by stealing it. Background check laws won't prevent guns from being stolen...as much as the article would like you to believe otherwise
post 1571863911 01-22-2019, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted By NuggzTheNinja⏩
One of us read that link wrong bro...I was looking at this section -



Mass shootings are definitely a different beast altogether. I'm not surprised to hear that those are committed with legally owned guns...usually there's a significant mental health component. On the other hand, they account for an incredibly small percentage of gun deaths in the US...I ran the numbers one time and the odds of dying in a mass shooting are about the same as being struck by lightning.
I saw a statistic in light of all this border wall discussion that stated more Americans have been murdered by illegal aliens in Texas alone than all mass shootings in 2018.

True mass shootings (not the bullchit numbers liberals like to use) aren't even statistically comparable to a million other forms of death.
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post 1571863951 01-22-2019, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted By BOZZ⏩
Which member is at SHOT show? Curious to see the size of the US Optics DRS if they got around to it
ikey is but he's probably too busy R&R'ing with the Sig Sauer team at the local mexican dive bar, slathering some sauer cream on some authetnic mexican quesadillas
6 scoops of xf up2.0 a day
post 1571864181 01-22-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted By MoeBettuh⏩
Didn’t someone come in here a year or two ago and say that the Arsenal Strike One was going to dethrone Glock? I’ve still never seen one of them irl.
Lolwot. Another flop of a gun.

Seriously, when it comes to pistols, if it’s not:
CZ
Glock
S&W
Springfield
Sig
Walther
Ruger
H&K
FNH
And the big names in 1911’s, it’s basically 100% irrelevant in the industry and probably junk.
post 1571864251 01-22-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted By RThoe⏩
I saw a statistic in light of all this border wall discussion that stated more Americans have been murdered by illegal aliens in Texas alone than all mass shootings in 2018.
I don’t doubt that at all.
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Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
I just want a triple Whopper.
Did you get a triple Whopper?
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post 1571868821 01-22-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted By LinuxJon⏩
Decided what's coming home with me next.

Going today to order a P229 Enhanced Elite. When it gets here, going to send it off to Sig for the action enhancement package, then add the Hogue G10 grips when it's back.
Bad choice, *******
Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
Exemptions should exist while on duty and that's it.
While I don’t agree, at least you don’t think that being a LEO should give you some sort of pass for whatever.
Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
I don't think they should even have exemptions for things like mag capacity, firearm type, etc, while on duty. Domestic law enforcement should not have any arms that the people they are supposed to be serving and protecting cannot themselves have. Only on duty LE exemptions should be secure access locations like jails, prisons, courthouses, secure area of airports, etc, where the active duty officers are actively doing their job and it requires a firearm...and every other person must go through security screening to get in or out...and that includes off duty not being able to carry there.
This basically exactly sums up my opinion on the matter.
Originally Posted By RThoe⏩
The democrats have literally pushed me further right than I've ever been before. I support Trump far more today than I did during the election.
Crew.
Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
No, you are not a huge 2A advocate. You are literally arguing for gun control on the regular people but not on the .gov right now, you are literally arguing against everything the Second Amendment stands for and says.

Allowing government to be armed and regular citizens not is how literal millions end up dead, **** off with your active shooter people will die **** and open your eyes up to the reality of the world and the mass government backed genocides that happen regularly throughout history before campaigning against the Second and trying to tell us the government should be armed with effective firearms while we are not.
^^^
Originally Posted By NuggzTheNinja⏩
It's not about limiting police. Did you even read Farley's post? Here's the cliffs:

If a feature is so important that the police NEED it, citizens NEED it as well.
^^^


I can’t believe anyone would disagree with this. But, statists gonna statist.
MFC

drum, it holds fifty, uh
post 1571868831 01-22-2019, 07:44 PM
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#384
  1. Wakaaa
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Shooting in a popular suburban mall near me...

POS thug kills someone. The POS is 19 years old. Has a past history and had a gun he used..



Gun control push in full effect (as if it hasn’t always been) now... crickets from black lives matter though.



I would love to post my views on fb and make them more public but having a business and a business I plan on franchising in a predominantly democrat gun hating *******s, I’m going to get flack and possibly hurt more (for going against the crowd and *******s pulling the race card for calling out black lives matters) than benefited.

JB already signed some sh*t that really is affecting dealers especially small dealers. This blows
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” - Benjamin Franklin

Proud first generation American of Syrian descent

Forever cutting crew
post 1571869641 01-22-2019, 07:56 PM
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#385
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Originally Posted By fmylife4real⏩
Did you get a triple Whopper?
I did. And it was everything I wanted it to be.
post 1571870081 01-22-2019, 08:04 PM
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#386
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Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
I did. And it was everything I wanted it to be.
you getting that larry vickers wastline immediately after eating it like i did or nah?

Also, fries on the side with a large COKE? or MR PIBB?
6 scoops of xf up2.0 a day
post 1571870631 01-22-2019, 08:13 PM
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#387
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Originally Posted By Wakaaa⏩
Shooting in a popular suburban mall near me...

POS thug kills someone. The POS is 19 years old. Has a past history and had a gun he used..

I'd show up to a city council meeting wearing a white DISHDASHA , with the POCKET CONSTITUTION in hand, and start pointing the book at people while yelling about the virtues of the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION but in Arabic
6 scoops of xf up2.0 a day
post 1571871021 01-22-2019, 08:19 PM
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#388
  1. fmylife4real
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Originally Posted By R3L3NTL3SS⏩
I did. And it was everything I wanted it to be.
It's okay to be white
MFC #33
*reminder to neg mysterylifter on sight because he thinks it's NOT okay to be white*
post 1571875031 01-22-2019, 09:20 PM
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#389
  1. Firefightn24
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Crossbreed owb holster came in today for the XDS 4.0. Fantastic gun imo.

Being anti-2nd Amendment is like saying "We have too many rights, please take some away!"
post 1571875361 01-22-2019, 09:26 PM
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#390
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I love the XD line, just wish they'd have thumb safetys on them
6 scoops of xf up2.0 a day
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